Learner Driver Convictions.

TheLoc

There is a guy sitting beside me in work right now. He had a provisional 5 years ago and it was illegal for him to drive. so yes!! you could not drive on your own with a provisional. I don't know where you got that from.
And yes we all know its illegal in all countries to do that but that doesn't mean nobody does it. I'm sure millions of people do it in europe. maybe you live in a dream world were the germans are perfect law abiding citizens.
Also just to jump in on the car tax = car seized thing in england, thats not fully true. My da lives in england and didn't get around to taxing his car for a couple of weeks. got stopped and they just asked him to make sure he renewed it.
I know you are all reading this off a news paper or something. We all know this is the law in all these countries but all these countries are not completly different to Ireland. they will of course break the law sometimes.

ztoical

TheLoc wrote: »

There is a guy sitting beside me in work right now. He had a provisional 5 years ago and it was illegal for him to drive. so yes!! you could not drive on your own with a provisional. I don't know where you got that from.

The guy sitting beside you is an idiot. For the first two years the idiot legally would not have allowed to drive as they would have been on a first provisional but after 2 years they would have got a 2nd provisional and up until last June people on 2nd provisional were always allowed drive alone.

The whole point of this thread has been to comment on the crack down on Learners since the change in the law last June. I learned to drive 2 years ago, I had first provisional 4 years before but then moved to America for 4 years so when I came back I was on a 2nd provisional and was legally allowed to drive on my own according to the law at the time.

TheLoc

ztoical wrote: »

+ 1 They also have much higher restrictions then we currently have - In the UK learners must be accompanied by somebody aged at least 21 who has held a full driving licence for three years unlike here where they can be any age and have held their licence for 2 years. In some EU countries and US states they must have held the licence for 4 years and in California and Norway they must be aged over 25. And in Norway your accompanying driver must have held their licence for 5 years and before your allowed to practice for any driver's licence, you must first complete a four-day class. Denmark requires several classes, you learn on a closed track and have X number of hours on the public road but only with an instructor.

This is just stupid. are you are guard or something. is that why you are complaining? because them rules are stupid. if you have someone who has fully past there test with you then that should be absolutely fine. This is actually a bit of a joke. I can't believe people are being so naive. Do you honestly think that since it says that in norway that everybody goes by it? you've got to be kidding me.

TheLoc

Ah 2nd provisional. yes he said now that he had a 2nd one. I get you now. I didn't know that would make a difference weather you have a 2nd or 1st. anyway for calling my friend an idiot who is a boards member, i'm reporting you!!!! na i'm only messing. although i'm sure you'd probably report me if I was driving around on a provisional (if I had one) :0 haha

Seth Brundle

TheLoc wrote: »

And yes we all know its illegal in all countries to do that but that doesn't mean nobody does it. I'm sure millions of people do it in europe. maybe you live in a dream world were the germans are perfect law abiding citizens.

To a much much lesser extent.
In other countries this law is actually enforced and has been for some time. This puts off most tempted to break the law.

TheLoc wrote: »

Also just to jump in on the car tax = car seized thing in england, thats not fully true. My da lives in england and didn't get around to taxing his car for a couple of weeks. got stopped and they just asked him to make sure he renewed it.

In the UK they now have system which means that if your tax expires, you will automatically be sent a fine unless you send off a SORN. Therfore to drive without tax is now a much greater offence but police use a level of discretion (as they often do here).

brian076

TheLoc wrote: »

There is a guy sitting beside me in work right now. He had a provisional 5 years ago and it was illegal for him to drive. so yes!! you could not drive on your own with a provisional. I don't know where you got that from.

I've been reading your posts throughout this thread and I have to say you're the most ill informed and least knowledgeable individual I've ever come across, when it comes to matters relating to driving.
As a driving instructor, and ex-tester I can assure you that it was LEGAL to drive un-accompanied on a 2nd provisional licence up until the middle of last year. So instead of spouting rubbish which you've heard from your mates, you might want to get your facts right first

TheLoc

Yes but at the end of the day, he had to renew his tax any way which means it gets backdated obviously. They are not as strict as you think. They are stricter of course but their not a bunch of robocops.
And Brian, I have acknowledged that I am wrong about the 2nd provisional thing. I didn't realise that. I understand why you are so uptight now. "a driving instructor, and ex-tester". No wonder...

brian076

TheLoc wrote: »

And Brian, I have acknowledged that I am wrong about the 2nd provisional thing. I didn't realise that. I understand why you are so uptight now. "a driving instructor, and ex-tester". No wonder...

I can assure you it's not the only thing your wrong about!
No wonder...what?
That I think you're spouting rubbish, and that you're typical of so many "bar-stool experts" who think they know everything. I think you'll find that I'm not the only contributer to this thread who finds your input so far to be less than constructive.
Hopefully you're just messing or doing it as a wind-up.

TheLoc

What exactly else am I wrong about? I only expressed opinion. I didn't say, "this is the way it happens, I'm right and you wrong" like an immature little baby.
No Wonder your so uptight about the subject.....
Did you not understand that no? I understand its a bit difficult. Anyway I'm not going to get into a little tiff with some 1 like you because I know the type of person you are. one of them opinionated people who is right no matter what. Even if you don't agree with yourself. you just love to argue. I'm telling you I think that people that have a provisional should be allowed to learn and drive on there own for a few months before they take a test following strict guidlines. obviously thats not going to happen. esspecially with people like you around.

NukaCola

TheLoc wrote: »

Yes but at the end of the day, he had to renew his tax any way which means it gets backdated obviously. They are not as strict as you think. They are stricter of course but their not a bunch of robocops.
And Brian, I have acknowledged that I am wrong about the 2nd provisional thing. I didn't realise that. I understand why you are so uptight now. "a driving instructor, and ex-tester". No wonder...

I`m not sure why you are arguing pointlessly here, the law is the law and is there to be obeyed by all, these Laws may seem "stupid" to you but are there for a reason - to make our roads safer and its people with your attitude that is keeping us from moving forward in the long run, we should expect more from the RSA yes but shouldn`t we as road users help them with something as fundamental as obeying the rules

TheLoc

Yes I understand that bumble bee. the law needs to be followed absolutyl agree. I am just making this argument because people seem to think other countries in the EU are so perfect and follow these rules "unlike" us. But that is not true. all countries probably are better organized than us but they are also fairly lenient too. Thats all I was saying. as for obeying the rules to help us move forward, It is very hard for someone to obey them when you have to get a car, have little money and can only borrow a small bit from the bank, need to fork out at 1500 for a car NCT'd for a year (at least) then pay 1600 for insurance for the year and 400 euro for tax for the year and then just sit in your living room staring at the car not being able to drive it because you have no-one who can help you! this is what I went through. and then not driving in case you get caught and fined 1500 euro. we're not all millionaires esspecially in recession where jobs are dropping like flies. A poster earlier was saying they should teach this stuff in secondary school and be made compulsory. there's loads of other steps that can be taken too. Its not hunky dory for everyone. for me it was impossible to do anything but challenge the law. but I don't want to advise anyone on it. I just would like some people to open their eyes a bit. But anyway this is my opinion. everyone is different. I didn't mean offend everyone but it gets my a bit dissappointed when people think its easy to follow the law and everyone needs to do it no matter what. I would have if I could but at the time - impossible. thanks for the debate everyone. hope no-one took offence and I didn't mean to be rude. cheers:)

Wishbone Ash

TheLoc wrote: »

I think that people that have a provisional should be allowed to learn and drive on there own

Just to confuse you further.................Get yourself a Learner Permit in categories A, A1, M or W and you can legally do all the driving on you own that you desire!

What you "think" is irrelevant! Many people "think" that they drive better after 7 or 8 pints.

TheLoc

Well done you absolute moron. Did I not not say I was expressing my opinion? I know its irrelevant. do you think boards.ie is somehow going to make it to the RTE news where they will report what I "think"? Maybe you "think" you're smart. but I "think" not.

Seth Brundle

If there is any more name calling I will apply a nice long ban for the offender - get it?

As for the current dispute over what happens in other countries, who cares? We don't live there! We live here and we have a problem with our system of learning which the RSA are trying to improve so lets work with them.

TheLoc

yep sorry. i was trying to make peace but someone started up again. apology from my side anyway

Seth Brundle

Nice way of making peace (insulting the guy who just stepped down as moderator of this forum).
Count to 100 before posting for the next day or so!

TheLoc

What? does it matter if he's a mod? it shouldn't! anyway he insulted me first and i'm to blame? fair enough lads. if thats what ye want to do maybe it should be a sticky to warn people. I will not be returning. I think it completely unfair to lean to one side just because he used to be a mod. Thats like a referee in a football match leaving man utd players off and showing bolton players the red card for the same offence. well no thanks.

NukaCola

TheLoc wrote: »

What? does it matter if he's a mod? it shouldn't! anyway he insulted me first and i'm to blame? fair enough lads. if thats what ye want to do maybe it should be a sticky to warn people. I will not be returning. I think it completely unfair to lean to one side just because he used to be a mod. Thats like a referee in a football match leaving man utd players off and showing bolton players the red card for the same offence. well no thanks.

No one insulted you to be fair

Alanstrainor

Lets keeps thing on topic everybody. There's no harm in having a debate, but realise that it's not worth getting wound up about it, if you think a post is out of order, report it, and either myself or the other mods will deal with ot accordingly.
Al

Cabaal

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just to confuse you further.................Get yourself a Learner Permit in categories A, A1, M or W and you can legally do all the driving on you own that you desire!

What you "think" is irrelevant! Many people "think" that they drive better after 7 or 8 pints.

I'd have to fully agree, the law is the law and its put in place for a very very good reason.

Its all about safety and I was a learner driver this time last year only starting off but I still 100% agree with not allowing learner drivers off on their own...they just don't have the experience and until they pass that test they haven't in anyway proved that they have enough experience to manage on their own.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beau x1

In my school people have got caught driving on permits without L plates and all about 5 times and the guards have just shrugged it off with the g'wan attitude. As a learner driver, and yes - I'm a lazy gob****e; I can honestly say it's very tempting to take the car to go to the shops which would otherwise be a 3 minute walk, or my mates house which would otherwise be a 10 minute walk. These are areas where you wouldn't expect to find Gardaí or anything. I hate to say it but I can see myself doing this in 2 or so weeks. I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of abuse for this; but like another lad here said - when you have the car and you're just staring at it from your living room and have a pretty respectable standard of driving (no, I'm not claiming to be a class driver or anything but I'm already better than some of the stuff I see on the road when I go out), it's hard not to take the L Plates off and take it for a convenient spin.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with the rules even if I don't like them, but it's hard not to break them. IMO if the waiting times were decreased you'd see far far less permit drivers on the roads.

TheLoc

I wouldn't say do it. I advise you not to just in case. but, I do think these little trips that are 5 or 10 minutes should be allowed. maybe I shouldn't say this but I was a learner for a year and was completely fine on the roads. But I wouldn't go near the road if I couldn't drive.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Busi_Girl08

TheLoc wrote: »

I do think these little trips that are 5 or 10 minutes should be allowed.

It just takes seconds to crash a car, it doesn;t matter whether your just popping down to the shops or tearing up the M50, it's against the law, and it stupidly dangerous.

You can talk all you like about "convenient drives", and how the Gardi "don't seem to care", but the law's the law and it's there for a reason.

TheLoc

I'll say it again, learners tend to crash a lot less than normal drivers. they are more careful. but anyway you are right. it is illegal and shouldn't be done. I just wish the gov would lay some better ground rules and be very strict with them. thats all

NukaCola

TheLoc wrote: »

I'll say it again, learners tend to crash a lot less than normal drivers.

Where are your stats for this?

TheLoc

Do you have stats saying otherwise?

NukaCola

TheLoc wrote: »

Do you have stats saying otherwise?

I was`nt saying otherwise was I? I was asking a genuine question, where are your stats. You do have stats to back up your claims right? Otherwise you could be talking rubbish, wouldnt you agree?

TheLoc

I would agree. and I couldn't be bothered looking it up either to be honest so you can call it rubbish if you want. I was just saying it because every crash I ever hear of in the news is never about a lerner or someone that had a provisional. If they did, it would definetly be all over the news. but anyway as you say I have no facts to back it up so you can strike it from the record .

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beau x1

This is how I see it:

In my opinion, by not enforcing the law completely since day one has really messed everything up. Because so many drivers have been let off as figures suggest, it almost seems discriminative now to punish someone for it when the majority are getting away with it. And because of this, more and more people seem to take a more relaxed stance towards this legislation. If everything was enforced fully since day one; believe me - word would spread so fast that no permit holder would even consider to drive alone. I would suggest that when the law was introduced that a minimal fine should have been issued to breachers, but later on increase the fine to the stated level when word spread that fines were actually being issued and it was seen as a real offense.

TheLoc

Thats true but I'm sure if a learner was involved and they were illegally driving do you not think there would be uproar about it? just asking now I don't want to sound like i'm being ignorent but I'd say if that happened it would be all over the news no?

Alanstrainor

TheLoc wrote: »

I was just saying it because every crash I ever hear of in the news is never about a lerner or someone that had a provisional.

There is a simple reason for this. There are significantly less learner drivers on our roads compared to fully licensed!

TheLoc

Thats true

OrangeDaisy

I think that the reason that most crashes involve fully licenced drivers is that there are simply more of them on the road!!! I don;t even have my licence a year and I probably wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't for the law coming in. People should appreciate that a law should not be broken!!!

Posy

TheLoc wrote: »

Thats true but I'm sure if a learner was involved and they were illegally driving do you not think there would be uproar about it? just asking now I don't want to sound like i'm being ignorent but I'd say if that happened it would be all over the news no?

That car accident in Nenagh, Co Tipperary on New years day where three teenage boys aged 14, 16, and 17 died and a 16 and 15 year old were badly injured was all over the news and there was an outpouring of sympathy, not uproar. The president even sent her condolences to the families and that was obviously a case of illegal driving.

I still think a big problem is teenagers (especially boys) being allowed to drive. I'm sure there are many responsible young men who appreciate the privilege of being on the road but they are sadly outnumbered by young guys who get their permit/licence and get behind the wheel thinking they're 'it' but are too busy showing off or too inexperienced to deal with the many situations that can be experienced on the roads.

TheLoc

Yes but they were joy riders. None of them had "L" plates and driving on provisional licenses. they were joy-riders blatantly breaking the law. thats completely different.

You are correct regarding your 2nd paragraph however. this is true and it is ruining it for the rest of the young people who generally are sick of waiting 1 hour in the pissing rain and wind for a bus to come to take them into work or wherever.

TestTransmission

Im confused,are you a learner driver or not?
Or have you in the space of 3 weeks bought your first car,learned how to drive,got a years experience on the road and passed your test?fair play

TheLoc wrote: »

Hi all, I am buying my first car soon enough. just a small car so I can teach myself how to drive nice and easy. I'm wondering if anyone knows where to get cheap car essentials e.g.: Jack, seat covers, wiper blades, alloys, mats, cleaning equipment... stuff like that.
I know lidl and aldi do deals the odd time but is there anywhere else?

Cheers

TheLoc wrote: »

That sounds good Limerick man. very helpful.
The car i'm getting is just a little toyota starlet diesel. I'm only learning to drive so a small car does me fine. i'm no boy racer type but i'd like to keep it clean and be able to sell it on next year instead of selling it for absolutely nothing. thats why i'm thinking some cheap alloys might keep it's price kind of level (it looks like a nuns car so it might be a bit more appealing). €70 would do the job alright.

TheLoc wrote: »

I wouldn't say do it. I advise you not to just in case. but, I do think these little trips that are 5 or 10 minutes should be allowed. maybe I shouldn't say this but I was a learner for a year and was completely fine on the roads. But I wouldn't go near the road if I couldn't drive.

TheLoc wrote: »

Ah 2nd provisional. yes he said now that he had a 2nd one. I get you now. I didn't know that would make a difference weather you have a 2nd or 1st. anyway for calling my friend an idiot who is a boards member, i'm reporting you!!!! na i'm only messing. although i'm sure you'd probably report me if I was driving around on a provisional (if I had one) :0 haha

TheLoc wrote: »

Yea, check out driving to a shop a half km up the road and getting fined 1500 euros????? the only people who can't handle learners on the road are people who are either jelous/failed their test a few times/ or can't drive themselves. I say give them room to learn. they need to. I think PCPhoto above is 100% correct and fair play to him. I'm sick of people complaining about everything pointlessly.

TheLoc wrote: »

You drive you're driving your father into work. how do you get back home? I mean its impossible. You have to learn how to drive somehow. I know learners can be the most dangerous on the road but, they could be banned from certain roads... I think its silly anyway. I know for a fact that everyone who drives provisional does not have someone in the car constantly. its impossible. My parents live in england for example. I live with my girlfriend, If I had a provisional, how would I learn? Impossible.

When I was getting lessons, the instructor told me it is impossible to pass the full test if you don't drive a bit every single day. He told me I should buy a car and drive around bit by bit. if you don't, you will fail. thats what I was told and I did it. passed first time round after 3 months. no problems. never crashed. Its your reponsibility to be carefull. If insurers are covering you, you have a right to drive. boy racers that have been driving for 5 years are far more dangerous than a learner in a little micra.

godeas

jackncoke wrote: »

Im confused,are you a learner driver or not?
Or have you in the space of 3 weeks bought your first car,learned how to drive,got a years experience on the road and passed your test?fair play

Im finished my driving lessons and Im on my 2nd provisional license. Im very careful on the road (female and 27 yrs old) but im terrified of getting caught on the rds unaccompanied so I take down my L plates just incase. Cos how else am I supposed to learn to drive!!??? my instrutor told me to get a few months driving in too on the rd and he hes I dont have anyone to accompany me. U have to start somewhere, right?

Seth Brundle

godeas wrote: »

Im finished my driving lessons and Im on my 2nd provisional license. Im very careful on the road (female and 27 yrs old) but im terrified of getting caught on the rds unaccompanied so I take down my L plates just incase. Cos how else am I supposed to learn to drive!!??? my instrutor told me to get a few months driving in too on the rd and he hes I dont have anyone to accompany me. U have to start somewhere, right?

You do have to start somewhere but not always on the wrong foot.

godeas

Yes not on the "wrong foot" but what would you suggest?

Seth Brundle

godeas wrote: »

Yes not on the "wrong foot" but what would you suggest?

It sounds to me like you aren't open to suggestions.
You have been licenced for more than two years and your instructor now feels that you are safe enough to drive unaccompanied. Why not just do the test (again)?
If you are good enough to drive on your own then you should be good enough to pass the test; otherwise stop driving unaccompanied!

timmywex

godeas wrote: »

Im finished my driving lessons and Im on my 2nd provisional license. Im very careful on the road (female and 27 yrs old) but im terrified of getting caught on the rds unaccompanied so I take down my L plates just incase. Cos how else am I supposed to learn to drive!!??? my instrutor told me to get a few months driving in too on the rd and he hes I dont have anyone to accompany me. U have to start somewhere, right?

I strongly advise you put back up your L plates!

Alanstrainor

godeas wrote: »

Im finished my driving lessons and Im on my 2nd provisional license. Im very careful on the road (female and 27 yrs old) but im terrified of getting caught on the rds unaccompanied so I take down my L plates just incase. Cos how else am I supposed to learn to drive!!??? my instrutor told me to get a few months driving in too on the rd and he hes I dont have anyone to accompany me. U have to start somewhere, right?

This is ridiculous. First of all, being on a second "Learner Permit" does not entitle you to drive unaccompanied. Secondly, just because you don't have anyone to accompany you doesn't mean the laws don't apply! What if everyone used that logic, chaos would ensue. Apply for your test and take it asap.
I'm going to close this thread as it'll just start to go around in one big circle if i leave it open.