Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur

Kold

So no one agrees that there was a penalty shout for Spurs before the whistle and the ref bottled it?

anonymous_joe

Kold wrote: »

So no one agrees that there was a penalty shout for Spurs before the whistle and the ref bottled it?

Maybe, but even if they'd gotten one ,they played so badly they've no right to feel robbed.

UnitedIrishman

Kold wrote: »

So no one agrees that there was a penalty shout for Spurs before the whistle and the ref bottled it?

The one where the left back fell to the ground under feck all of a challenge? He didn't even appeal for it himself.

Kold

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Maybe, but even if they'd gotten one ,they played so badly they've no right to feel robbed.

Individually I feel they played pretty well, it's just their refusal to actually press United that annoyed me, if they tried we would've caused some problems. I thought it was a clear penalty but the ref didn't really want to call anyone on anything tonight.

Zokora, Gunter, Hudd, Dawson and Corluka played very well, Pav took his goal very well too. Bentley had better find some form soon. Gio was nothing special which is a shame seeing as he has potential. Glad to be rid of the FA fixtures though, our concentration needs to be on the League Cup and survival.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The one where the left back fell to the ground under feck all of a challenge? He didn't even appeal for it himself.

No, the blatant hand ball.

Dave!

Good stuff

Danny Welbeck stood out for me today. Pretty good game from him, good control, good pace, looked a threat at times. I found him more impressive than other games that he played as a striker (not that he was bad or anything).

Fabio looks like he could be good too Shame he had to come off, I hope he's okay!

Thought Carrick had a good game too. He picked out some fantastic passes, in particular the first-time one for Berbatov's goal! :eek:

All in all I'm happy out! Bad defending for the Spurs goal though, and Foster could have made an effort for it I think.

anonymous_joe

Kold wrote: »

Individually I feel they played pretty well, it's just their refusal to actually press United that annoyed me, if they tried we would've caused some problems. I thought it was a clear penalty but the ref didn't really want to call anyone on anything tonight.

Zokora, Gunter, Hudd, Dawson and Corluka played very well, Pav took his goal very well too. Bentley had better find some form soon. Gio was nothing special which is a shame seeing as he has potential. Glad to be rid of the FA fixtures though, our concentration needs to be on the League Cup and survival.



No, the blatant hand ball.

Interesting take on it. I was viewing it from the other side, and I look at Spurs as having no problems in terms of quality of players, there's just nothing approximating a team there.

Sure Modric was one of the most in demand players in Europe this summer, Gio did well at Barca, etc. THat's not a bad team by any stretch of the imagination.

Mitch Connor

Kold wrote: »

No, the blatant hand ball.

It hit his hand, but never a penalty imo.

When it hit his arm, his arm was in front of his body, held against his stomach. The ball was also hammered at goal; and he was only a few yards away.

For it to have been a penalty; it would had to have been a deliberate hand ball and I do not think you can really say that it was - its not like he had his arms held outwards blocking down the space, he had them tight to his body.

dantes74

spurs rather sadly are missing a leader on the field
someone that will lead by example, grab the game
by the scruff of the neck

we looked like a team without ambition today and
the same in mid-week against burnley

PHB

Unlucky for Fabio, I thought he had a good game. Welbeck did well too, taking his chances.

Tosic played very little, so its no surprised I won't write him off just yet, and he did make one fantastic pass to Tevez so I'm still intrigued.

Good win with a horrendously depleted squad, happy to concede only one.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Dave! wrote: »

Good stuff

Danny Welbeck stood out for me today. Pretty good game from him, good control, good pace, looked a threat at times. I found him more impressive than other games that he played as a striker (not that he was bad or anything).

Fabio looks like he could be good too Shame he had to come off, I hope he's okay!

Thought Carrick had a good game too. He picked out some fantastic passes, in particular the first-time one for Berbatov's goal! :eek:

All in all I'm happy out! Bad defending for the Spurs goal though, and Foster could have made an effort for it I think.

Welbeck is good yeah, his downfall is he doesn't use his left foot at all

SantryRed

I can't believe Spurs fans aren't fuming.

The lack of effort out of that squad in the last two games is rediculous.

I hope they go down with that attitude.

Necronomicon

The United youngsters really didn't look out of place at all, some really positive performances. Wellbeck, playing out of position, showed great skill and seems to have the confidence of someone playing every week. He was unlucky not to score from the run that brought him into the box, when he was denied by a great block. Fabio was tremendous, and it's a real shame that his game was cut short. Eckersley looked decent enough as well, particularly going forward. I thought Tosic looked bright enough as well He seems to have a good left foot, that free kick he delivered was pretty dangerous.

Given how much the squad is being stretched right now it was great to see.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

I can't believe Spurs fans aren't fuming.

The lack of effort out of that squad in the last two games is rediculous.

I hope they go down with that attitude.

Oh come on they are in the Carling cup final, you hardly expect the manager to want them to stay in the FA Cup in their present predicament.

If they stay up there will be nothing said, but if they had a successful FA Cup campaign and went down you would be hopping on the fact that they stupidly went for it in the cup and got their deserved rewards for not taking due care of business in the league and forgetting the Cup. And thats the reality of it, their whole season revolves around staying in the Premier League. Nothing else matters.

fish fingers

SantryRed wrote: »

I can't believe Spurs fans aren't fuming.

The lack of effort out of that squad in the last two games is rediculous.

I hope they go down with that attitude.

Ah come on man, they had a lot of injuries.

I could never wish bad luck on spurs. They are always a team who try and attack. Plus , you gotta love Harry no matter what

YDMHSSB

cant believe people are giving spurs so much abuse for this. yes they were terrible on wednesday, but they only lost 2-1 yesterday against a team top of the league. they are struggling for form yet had 2/3 great chances last 20 to get a draw. it was a sh*te game, united were no great shakes either.

i think people are just jumping on this lack of effort bandwagon a bit too much when it comes to spurs. a 2-1 defeat at old trafford is not the end of the world, they lost to a moment of sheer class from berbatov and thats it. they can take many positives from it and im sure they wont get too down over it.

Unearthly

Agreed

Spurs don't have the quality to compete in as many competitions as they were in.

They didn't play well at all at Old Trafford but not many teams do to be fair

Latchy

Teddy Sheringham summed it up correctly on spurs game yesterday when he said '' football teams play football to win competitions ,not worrying about avoiding being relegated '' and you could see his point .That's the way football has gone .

YDMHSSB

latchyco wrote: »

Teddy Sheringham summed it up correctly on spurs game yesterday when he said '' football teams play football to win competitions ,not worrying about avoiding being relegated '' and you could see his point .That's the way football has gone .

in all fairness, its been like that for a long long time. for about 7-10 teams in each league, while they all believe they can mount a top 6 challenge, there would also be a fear that they would be relegation material. the amount of money that survival means is amazing and a poor first few months to the season quickly changes ambitions.

weemcd

Never seen a player as disinterested looking as Ronaldo yesterday, I had a fiver on him anytime goalscorer, thought that was nailed on since he scored during the week. Even though I had my fiver on, I was delighted to see him being subbed for Tosic(sp?) just looked like he'd rather be somewhere else.

Of course if i didn't back him, he probably would have had a great game, netting two.:rolleyes:

adox

weemcd wrote: »

Never seen a player as disinterested looking as Ronaldo yesterday, I had a fiver on him anytime goalscorer, thought that was nailed on since he scored during the week. Even though I had my fiver on, I was delighted to see him being subbed for Tosic(sp?) just looked like he'd rather be somewhere else.

Of course if i didn't back him, he probably would have had a great game, netting two.:rolleyes:

Ronaldo needs a little spell on the bench but with the injuries we have a t the moment its not viable.

He was disgraceful again yesterday with his performance and couldnt be taken off soon enough for me.

I`ve already made up my mind that he will be gone in the summer, but he looks like hes taking the piss at the moment.

keane2097

weemcd wrote: »

Never seen a player as disinterested looking as Ronaldo yesterday, I had a fiver on him anytime goalscorer, thought that was nailed on since he scored during the week. Even though I had my fiver on, I was delighted to see him being subbed for Tosic(sp?) just looked like he'd rather be somewhere else.

Of course if i didn't back him, he probably would have had a great game, netting two.:rolleyes:

Alex Ferguson wrote:

Cristiano has picked up a little bug as well

We had to get the doctor to him this morning and I didn't think he was anywhere near ready but he showed the appetite to play and it is always good to have him on the pitch.

He will be better by Tuesday.

FYI

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

FYI

He must have had a bug for the last four or five games so.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

Ronaldo needs a little spell on the bench but with the injuries we have a t the moment its not viable.

He was disgraceful again yesterday with his performance and couldnt be taken off soon enough for me.

I`ve already made up my mind that he will be gone in the summer, but he looks like hes taking the piss at the moment.

It's good that you've made up your mind in spite of the player staying he wants to stay at United for several years - glad to see you know his plans better than he does.

He was sick yesterday.

This constant Ronaldo-bashing is getting really old tbh.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

He must have had a bug for the last four or five games so.

Do you honestly expect him to be class in every game?

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

Do you honestly expect him to be class in every game?

Its his attitude that I`m on about, not the level of his performances. Of course I dont expect him to be a world beater every game but I do expect him to show some sort of interest in the game and the team he is playing for.

Its not Ronaldo bashing,its telling it how I see it.

UnitedIrishman

I think it's just a complete lack of confidence at the minute from Ronaldo. He hasn't been as influential this season at all and maybe the pressure of being the main guy from last year is getting to him a bit.

Apparently the reason Fergie brought him on against Derby was to get his confidence up a bit, maybe getting a goal.

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

It's good that you've made up your mind in spite of the player staying he wants to stay at United for several years - glad to see you know his plans better than he does.

He also said last summer that he wanted to leave for Madrid. Do you honestly think he intends on staying at United for years?

keane2097

adox wrote: »

Its his attitude that I`m on about, not the level of his performances. Of course I dont expect him to be a world beater every game but I do expect him to show some sort of interest in the game and the team he is playing for.

Its not Ronaldo bashing,its telling it how I see it.

How do you know whether he's interested or not? How do you know what his attitude is like? You don't. You're just making things up out of thin air to argue your point.

It's a case of "I want to moan about Cristiano Ronaldo so I'll harp on about some intangible pseudo-characteristic like attitude or interest that nobody can disagree about."

The player has 4 or 5 sub-optimal performances and his attitude is bad - ffs.

The player has come out several times in the last couple of months to say he loves the club, intends to stay for years to come, wants to win as many trophies with United as possible etc etc and still we have this nonsense about "interest" and "attitude".

It's so ridiculous.

You saying it's not Ronaldo bashing doesn't make it not Ronaldo bashing by the way.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

He also said last summer that he wanted to leave for Madrid. Do you honestly think he intends on staying at United for years?

I once said I wanted to be a fire engine. More recently I've said I want to be an engineer.

I suppose I have to be lying about the second one since I said the first one first.:rolleyes:

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

How do you know whether he's interested or not? How do you know what his attitude is like? You don't. You're just making things up out of thin air to argue your point.

It's a case of "I want to moan about Cristiano Ronaldo so I'll harp on about some intangible pseudo-characteristic like attitude or interest that nobody can disagree about."

The player has 4 or 5 sub-optimal performances and his attitude is bad - ffs.

The player has come out several times in the last couple of months to say he loves the club, intends to stay for years to come, wants to win as many trophies with United as possible etc etc and still we have this nonsense about "interest" and "attitude".

It's so ridiculous.

You saying it's not Ronaldo bashing doesn't make it not Ronaldo bashing by the way.

Calm down! I`m giving my opinion as you are giving yours. I dont agree with your points but I`m not calling them "ridiculous" and "nonsense".:rolleyes:

Also I am not making things up out of thin air, I am giving my opinion on a player and my perceived attitude of him on the pitch. If you dont agree fine, but if your going to throw your toys out of the pram because of it, well maybe you should grow up a bit.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

Calm down! I`m giving my opinion as you are giving yours. I dont agree with your points but I`m not calling them "ridiculous" and "nonsense".:rolleyes:

Also I am not making things up out of thin air, I am giving my opinion on a player and my perceived attitude of him on the pitch. If you dont agree fine, but if your going to throw your toys out of the pram because of it, well maybe you should grow up a bit.

That's my entire point - you're lacing the player over complete intangibilities and stuff that's not even quantifiable.

If you want to say "Ronaldo's fitness isn't up to scratch" or "His passing is awful" or whatever then grand, but if you don't have anything real to complain about then I don't see the point.

YDMHSSB

im only a newbie here but ive been a long time lurker. one thing that annoys me about the united fans on here is that people have very short memories and some of these just have not got a clue and post things without thinking. ronaldo bashing is one example. he is a united player, the best player in the world and while he is a united player, which i know he will be for 3/4 years to come (expect a new contract in the summer), i will back him 100%.

we need him on our side and thats it. now, im sure ronaldo does not care about what people on here say about him and im sure that some of the ronaldo bashing united fans have never stepped foot near old trafford, but when im at old trafford, i will do my best to spur him on.

one particular poster here seems more annoyed at the bet he lost as ronaldo didnt score, nothing about the fact that ronaldo was very very sick yesterday and anybody that bashes him for his performance yesterday, would not be considered a decent fan to me. another seems to forget that ronaldo was superb against Chelsea, our biggest game of the last few weeks. but hey, maybe you didnt see that on your tv, maybe you needed to switch to widescreen or HD to see it better or move closer to tv. :cool:

and you also seem to forget that ronaldo did not play against derby from the start or southampton and has been left on the bench in a few games, so this drop him for 3 or 4 games lark is nonsense. ronaldo has had as much an influence as tevez, berbatov and rooney on uniteds season, but people dont bash them much do they?

and another thing, his attitude. his attitude is far better this year and the fans know it. he doesnt shoot as much and passes alot more. his assists are already away higher than the entire season last year. united are also playing a different formation and ronaldo is spending his time as a winger, which is where he is most effective. he is winning the fans over and this can be seen at every game both home and away, as his song starts to creep in more and more now. Derby away was particularly evident and chelsea at home. but then again, as i said, im sure the people questioning his attitude were sitting at home with the streams in japanese and audio on mute.

rant over, viva ronaldo.

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

That's my entire point - you're lacing the player over complete intangibilities and stuff that's not even quantifiable.

If you want to say "Ronaldo's fitness isn't up to scratch" or "His passing is awful" or whatever then grand, but if you don't have anything real to complain about then I don't see the point.

But surely a players attitude is the starting point for any performance?

I thought his performance was very poor yesterday, passing, dribbling etc. What was of more concern though, and has been in my eyes for the last few games, his lack of effort, lack of application, his body language etc.

Surely I`m entitled to express that opinion and concern. I`m a United supporter after all and would like nothing more than a commited Roanldo at the club, but imo, he looks like a player who already has his mind somewhere else.

keane2097

adox wrote: »

But surely a players attitude is the starting point for any performance?

I thought his performance was very poor yesterday, passing, dribbling etc. What was of more concern though, and has been in my eyes for the last few games, his lack of effort, lack of application, his body language etc.

Surely I`m entitled to express that opinion and concern. I`m a United supporter after all and would like nothing more than a commited Roanldo at the club, but imo, he looks like a player who already has his mind somewhere else.

He was sick yesterday - he played through it cos the team needed him.

That's the fact of the matter. If you want to moan away about phantom attributes then that's up to you.

SteamTrean

keane2097 wrote: »

That's my entire point - you're lacing the player over complete intangibilities and stuff that's not even quantifiable.

If you want to say "Ronaldo's fitness isn't up to scratch" or "His passing is awful" or whatever then grand, but if you don't have anything real to complain about then I don't see the point.

As the true greatest player in the world, Messi, said himself: Ronaldo is slowed down by the weight of his own ego. He doesn't want to play for United, despite what he was instructed to say to appease the fans. He is unhappy and that is reflected in his attitude on the pitch. This attitude is effecting every aspect of his game.

As for this bug... rubbish, yet another example of sir Alex covering up for the brat.

adox

keane2097 wrote: »

He was sick yesterday - he played through it cos the team needed him.

That's the fact of the matter. If you want to moan away about phantom attributes then that's up to you.

Look I`m getting a bit fed up with your little jibes. "Phantom attributes"? Get over yourself will you? I dont have the same opinion as you on Ronaldo. Get ****ing over it. And keep the snide jibes out of it.

keane2097

SteamTrean wrote: »

As the true greatest player in the world, Messi, said himself: Ronaldo is slowed down by the weight of his own ego. He doesn't want to play for United, despite what he was instructed to say to appease the fans. He is unhappy and that is reflected in his attitude on the pitch. This attitude is effecting every aspect of his game.

As for this bug... rubbish, yet another example of sir Alex covering up for the brat.

If you've anything to back any of this up I'd be interested in seeing it.

adox wrote: »

Look I`m getting a bit fed up with your little jibes. "Phantom attributes"? Get over yourself will you? I dont have the same opinion as you on Ronaldo. Get ****ing over it. And keep the snide jibes out of it.

What jibes are you talking about?

In my opinion things like attitude, interest, character, hunger etc are all phantom attributes, in that they can't be quantified. Any discussion of them basically involves one person trying to read the player's mind and assess his mood and intentions.

As such, if that's the only complaint you can make about a player I don't see the point in making it.

Also, I don't know what the phrase "get over yourself" means.

Also, why should the argument "I have a different opinion to you" preclude me from arguing my position?

Spud83

SteamTrean wrote: »

As the true greatest player in the world, Messi, said himself: Ronaldo is slowed down by the weight of his own ego. He doesn't want to play for United, despite what he was instructed to say to appease the fans. He is unhappy and that is reflected in his attitude on the pitch. This attitude is effecting every aspect of his game.

As for this bug... rubbish, yet another example of sir Alex covering up for the brat.

8 league goals and 5 assists is not bad for someone who doesn't want to be there.

Yeah he is going through a dry patch in terms of scoring show me a player who hasn't gone through that. Especially when you are playing with a team who is struggling to score goals all over the pitch.

As for yesterday. You must have missed that part where he sprinted from the Spurs penalty box back to left full position to cover and help out Fabio. That the attitude of some one who doesn't care?

You must have missed the fact he was playing out of position on the left.

You must have missed the fact that he is passing a lot more than last season. That he is drawing players in and then laying the ball off to the centre or to our over lapping full back who gets load of space because the opposition players are attracted to Ronaldo.

Is Ronaldo having the same kind of season as last year? No.
Is he still very important to United? Yes.
Are United winning? Yes.

As for the true greatest player in the world stuff. That is your opinion and opinion not shared by many.

Xavi6

Take them elsewhere please. Debate the topic without making bitchy remarks at each other.

Cheers

YDMHSSB

SteamTrean wrote: »

As the true greatest player in the world, Messi, said himself: Ronaldo is slowed down by the weight of his own ego. He doesn't want to play for United, despite what he was instructed to say to appease the fans. He is unhappy and that is reflected in his attitude on the pitch. This attitude is effecting every aspect of his game.

As for this bug... rubbish, yet another example of sir Alex covering up for the brat.

oh well if messi says so, must be true then. and who are we to believe fergie, full of sh*t that lad, aint got a clue what he is talking about.

SteamTrean

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

As for the true greatest player in the world stuff. That is your opinion and opinion not shared by many.

The only football fans that would disagree are Man Utd fans. It's just like those daily polls on Teamtalk, for 'Best goal of the weekend' and the like. If a Man Utd player is listed on the poll..invariably they win. Why? because Man Utd have more fans than everyone else. It's just pure bias.

Obviously all fans have bias, not just Man Utd fans, but this is why you are jumping to defend Ronaldo. You'll delude yourself into thinking that Ronaldo loves UTD, even though it's clear that he would rather be in Spain, right up until he signs for Real, or whoever.. in the same way that Liverpool fans think EL Nino.. is Liverpool through and through. They are all mercenaries. There are very few, if any, exceptions to that, and no exceptions among foreign players. UTD fans will go on defending the brat even though he showed no respect to UTD fans during the whole Real saga last year. It really is sad to watch.

Cash in at the end of the season. Take the 80 million and build for the future. the dressing room will improve too I'm sure.

SteamTrean

YDMHSSB wrote: »

ronaldo bashing united fans have never stepped foot near old trafford, but when im at old trafford, i will do my best to spur him on.
....
maybe you didnt see that on your tv, maybe you needed to switch to widescreen or HD to see it better or move closer to tv. :cool:
...
im sure the people questioning his attitude were sitting at home with the streams in japanese and audio on mute.
.

Ok we get it you go to lots of games in Old Trafford. I've been to a good few games myself (not Old Trafford, although I have been there (in the away end)), I've also watched a hell of a lot of games on my 42'' on Sky or Setanta. The slow motion replays and varying camera angles, along with half and full time anaysis, which I don't get to see when I'm at a game, are at a pretty high quality. I don't like smug people, who can afford to attend loads of matches, using this to belittle the opinions of people who can't. It's not a valid argument.