The Soccer Forum Moderator

Gordon

I can't follow this, you are posting so erratically with negligible links to back up anything and jumping from point to point.

eagle eye

Gordon wrote: »

I can't follow this, you are posting so erratically with negligible links to back up anything and jumping from point to point.

Ok, I'll go through it all again, I'll put each point in a separate post if thats suitable for you and put links for each one. And thats for the Benitez thread only.

After that I'll show you the other stuff I consider unfair moderating in another post. I'll attach relevant links here again.

And then when we have finished with that I'll go through the accusations that have been levelled at me in this thread in yet another post. And I'll link the posts that they are in and also quote the stuff I'm talking about.

It will take some time.

I'll come back soon and check on this to see if that will suit you.

Gordon

Why don't we just try and address the first point that we have discussed re: fail pic.

this post was not infracted (I understand) because the quoted post in that post seemed to have some merit for discussion. Hence the quoted post was not infracted. And since there was some form of discussion the fail post, as a whole, was not infracted. That's how I see it. Maybe a soccer mod could clarify.

GuanYin

Gordon wrote: »

Why don't we just try and address the first point that we have discussed re: fail pic.

this post was not infracted (I understand) because the quoted post in that post seemed to have some merit for discussion. Hence the quoted post was not infracted. And since there was some form of discussion the fail post, as a whole, was not infracted. That's how I see it. Maybe a soccer mod could clarify.

That was my view. Xavi6 did not highlight the post when we reviewed the thread together either, I am not sure what his reasoning was, but I guess it was most likely the same reason.

eagle eye

In Post no. 11 on this thread I asked

eagle eye wrote: »

Why did one fail picture not got a yellow card?

In post no. 13 on this thread Guan Yin replied after quoting the above question with this.

GuanYin wrote: »

I believe it is because the users had already been banned at that stage. There is a stage when the moderator has made the point and no further sanction is required.

To the same question, Gordon responded in post no. 24 on this thread with the following answer.

Gordon wrote: »

The person that posted that pic received a harsher treatment, a ban. They got this for something prior to that as far as I understand. Therefore, no need to further infract for a more minor offence.

Since then I have checked to see was this user banned, and I brought it to your attention that this was not the case.
You now both admit that he did not receive any warning/infraction/ban but only after I went to great lengths to prove your previous replies were incorrect.
Is Guan Yin now admitting to making an error here or, did she lie to me originally hoping I'd be dumb enough not to check up on it?

Here is your latest line.

Gordon wrote: »

Why don't we just try and address the first point that we have discussed re: fail pic.

this post was not infracted (I understand) because the quoted post in that post seemed to have some merit for discussion. Hence the quoted post was not infracted. And since there was some form of discussion the fail post, as a whole, was not infracted. That's how I see it. Maybe a soccer mod could clarify.

GuanYin wrote: »

That was my view. Xavi6 did not highlight the post when we reviewed the thread together either, I am not sure what his reasoning was, but I guess it was most likely the same reason.

GuanYin

yup that was my mistake. There was one post we didn't sanction because the post was banned after the second offense. I thought that was the one you referred to, we did alot of posts in that thread.

In any case, as a rule, we don't talk about other peoples bans. We will only discuss the offense and sanction with the offender/sanctioned so you're not going to get an answer from us on those.

eagle eye

GuanYin wrote: »

yup that was my mistake. There was one post we didn't sanction because the post was banned after the second offense. I thought that was the one you referred to, we did alot of posts in that thread.

In any case, as a rule, we don't talk about other peoples bans. We will only discuss the offense and sanction with the offender/sanctioned so you're not going to get an answer from us on those.

Thats not a good enough reply at this stage, but I'll wait for Gordon to come back.

Xavi6

There are faaaaar too many tangeants in this thread for me to sift through and deal with but I will try and give a decent answer to the initial question - why was the Benitez thread left open?

Now I didn't actually see the thread until 10 hours after it had started as I was asleep. When I did see it however it had progressed into something of a car crash. So from my point of view -

1. IMO the thread should never have been a stand alone thread in the first place. However there were no mods around at the time to deal with it and merge it with the team threads. That's going to happen when people have lives. The CMod did exactly the right thing and intervened when there were no actual forum mods online. No one can have any complaints about that action.

2. After the initial idiocies there was some genuine discussion in the thread. Because of this, a merge of a thread of 100 posts with a thread of thousands would be a disaster as every sense of structure would be lost due to the mixing of post times.

3. When there were enough mods, i.e. more than one, online at the same time the decision was taken to punish those who had essentially acted the bollox and contributed nothing constructive to thread. We spent a good half hour or more listing the posts/posters that deserved a warning. If we missed something then I humbly apologise (on my behalf anyway).

4. As far as I can remember nobody reported the OP to draw a mod's attention to it. Why not? 'Help us to help you' is something we keep trying to emphasise but it continues to fall on deaf ears.

To sum it up, if I had seen the OP then I would have merged the threads straight away, or even locked it, before the village idiots (and I use that term in the context of that thread only) waded in with their tupence worth. I did exactly that with a thread started on Daniel Agger last night (I can provide links if you'd like).

Mistakes are made by everybody, but in this case the thread's existence could not really be helped.

Any other issues you have with the modding of the forum are your own and I won't comment on them in this thread unless I'm directly asked to do so.

eagle eye

To Xavi,

I am dissapointed to see you post in this thread. I am the only forum member allowed post here, and now we have two moderators from the soccer forum posting in this thead. I understand you spent a lot of time on your post here but its far too late for you to come in and try and explain this away.

Do you sleep at all Xavi?

You posted on the 22nd of January at 07.07. Your next posted on the 22nd of January was at 23.34.

I have to say that I find it surprising that you came online to discuss this matter at sometime before 15.34 when Guan Yin posted in the thread.

I find it even more surprising that you would not have any thoughts on the matter that you would like to share with the rest of us in that thread or in any other thread in the soccer forum when you came online at sometime before 15.34 or 2.34 am in another part of the world.

I've noticed a huge swing in the attitude and explanations given by Guan Yin in this thread.

I think you can understand my unwillingness to accept your reply as completely credible at this stage.

I do want to add that I admire the way you have moderated in the short time you have been a mod in the soccer forum.

My own personal belief is that you would have come on if you had been involved in moderating that thread and told everyone to calm down and made it clear that there was to be no posting of fail pics or other stuff. I would not have expected that there would be the spraying like confetti of yellow cards in the thread if you were involved. The reason I'd imagine things would go differently is because you have been moderating with a commen sense approach and not with the same gung ho approach of Guan Yin.

Sorry if I have come across a bit strong here, but you can understand that if you had replied to this matter a lot earlier then I might accept a lot of what you say.

If anybody thought that because I have made it clear that I respect Xavi as a moderator meant that one reply from him at this late stage would alter my belief that Guan Yin is not moderating in a fair manner across the soccer forum, well you are seriously mistaken.

I have a lot more to say on this matter.

Xavi6

eagle eye wrote: »

To Xavi,

I am dissapointed to see you post in this thread. I am the only forum member allowed post here, and now we have two moderators from the soccer forum posting in this thead. I understand you spent a lot of time on your post here but its far too late for you to come in and try and explain this away.

That's not what I'm doing. I said I was answering one of your questions in the hope of clearing it up.

Do you sleep at all Xavi?

You posted on the 22nd of January at 07.07. Your next posted on the 22nd of January was at 23.34.

Emmmm yes I do sleep, usually between the hours of 2pm and 11pm Irish time (which is why I didn't see the thread in question btw). Believe it or not on that day I may have had training or something similar, hence the gap in my posts that you highlight above.

I'm not sure what point you're making with that.

I have to say that I find it surprising that you came online to discuss this matter at sometime before 15.34 when Guan Yin posted in the thread.

I didn't, and never said I did. I spoke about it at midnight when I came online.

I find it even more surprising that you would not have any thoughts on the matter that you would like to share with the rest of us in that thread or in any other thread in the soccer forum when you came online at sometime before 15.34 or 2.34 am in another part of the world.

I wasn't online at any time then. As I said, I spoke about it when I DID come on around midnight.

I hope that's clear.

I've noticed a huge swing in the attitude and explanations given by Guan Yin in this thread.

I think you can understand my unwillingness to accept your reply as completely credible at this stage.

It's perfectly credible in relation to that specific question. Choosing to accept it or not though is up to you.

I do want to add that I admire the way you have moderated in the short time you have been a mod in the soccer forum.

Thank you

My own personal belief is that you would have come on if you had been involved in moderating that thread and told everyone to calm down and made it clear that there was to be no posting of fail pics or other stuff. I would not have expected that there would be the spraying like confetti of yellow cards in the thread if you were involved. The reason I'd imagine things would go differently is because you have been moderating with a commen sense approach and not with the same gung ho approach of Guan Yin.

Again that's an issue with another mod and not me so it'd be unfair to comment.

Sorry if I have come across a bit strong here, but you can understand that if you had replied to this matter a lot earlier then I might accept a lot of what you say.

I didn't have the capability. Access to this forum was only granted to me yesterday.

If anybody thought that because I have made it clear that I respect Xavi as a moderator meant that one reply from him at this late stage would alter my belief that Guan Yin is not moderating in a fair manner across the soccer forum, well you are seriously mistaken.

Nobody thought that. I took it upon myself to offer you a respnse. If that was wasted then I'll know for the future.

I have a lot more to say on this matter.

I don't doubt that, but I'm struggling to think of what outcome you would like from all this. Heads rolling?

GuanYin

That is a very good point.

What outcome do you expect or want from this?

What do you hope to achieve here?

You appear to expect some sort of outcome that you are arguing towards, but I can't really make out what it is.

eagle eye

There is no need for heads to roll.

What I would like to come from this discussion is the following.

1. A fair and frank discussion in the soccer forum of how people think the forum is being moderated and thoughts regarding the moderators. I just feel that Guan Yin has to back off a bit in certain areas. I think that a discussion in the forum where members are allowed to air their grievances might clear things up a little.
If that happens and the moderators take heed of it, then we could see a lot less of these threads.
In all fairness the amount of threads and issues that have been discussed here concerning the moderation of Guan Yin has to mean something. And the complaints I've read in this forum include a lot from posters who would be respected and not troublesome in the soccer forum.

OR

2. I'd like Guan Yin to accept that there might indeed be issues with her moderation that she needs to look at and address. I'd like Guan Yin to admit that she has at times in the past acted irrationally as a moderator in the soccer forum.

I believe that 1 will lead to Guan Yin accepting 2, as I believe that a large majority of the soccer forum members feel as I do.

On a personal level, I'd like an apology for being called a liar and being accused of saying things I did not. Below is an example.

GuanYin wrote: »

Let me see....
You claimed that:
I banned Pigman/Pighead unfairly and previously banned him unfairly.
I delete posts where I moderate unfairly.

Among other things.

You don't even seem to have a point of accusation, you're just making up lies and as I discredit each one you're making up another.

eagle eye

^^^ Anyone care to respond?

eagle eye

Well posts 41 and 42 asked me a question. I responded and since then there has been no reply from anybody.

I see that after this thread had ran for a while there were two moderators added to the soccer forum. I'm hoping this will not form any part of a reply to me here, if indeed I ever get a reply.

Surely I'm entitled to at least an apology here for being called a liar.

eagle eye

I see Guan Yin has posted in this forum regularly since I was last asked a queston here.

Is there any chance of you posting in this thread again?

GuanYin

I've explained anything that I'm going to explain to you.

Until someone further up the chain tells me I've something to answer for, I don't see any point in engaging with you on these matters.

But thank you for your feedback.

eagle eye

GuanYin wrote: »

I've explained anything that I'm going to explain to you.

Until someone further up the chain tells me I've something to answer for, I don't see any point in engaging with you on these matters.

But thank you for your feedback.

Do you not feel, on a personal level, the need to retract and apologise for calling me a liar?

You accused me of lying and demanded an apology, when I showed you I had not lied you backed off but have failed to admit any wrongdoing.

You put a smiley in your post for the first time in this thread in the post quoted above.
Did you just put the smiley in because you are happy, or does it mean something more?
Is it something similar to the 'customer' and 'you're not a mod' comments?

GuanYin

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you not feel, on a personal level, the need to retract and apologise for calling me a liar?

Nope.

You accused me of lying and demanded an apology, when I showed you I had not lied you backed off but have failed to admit any wrongdoing.

I didn't back off, I just don't see a point in dealing with you.

You put a smiley in your post for the first time in this thread in the post quoted above.
Did you just put the smiley in because you are happy, or does it mean something more?
Is it something similar to the 'customer' and 'you're not a mod' comments?

You're going to decide what you think it means anyway, so I see no point in explaining.

eagle eye

To the SMODs

I stated in the op that I did feel that Guan Yin does not act consistently in her moderation of the Soccer forum.
I stated that I personally believe that a huge majority of the regular posters in the Soccer forum are unhappy with the moderation of Guan Yin.

I later explained some of my concerns over this moderator and included posts and threads.
I said that I believe that this moderator does not act fairly across the forum.
I said that this moderator seems to act irrationally at times.

I believe that this moderator is gung ho/goes ott with her moderation at times, unlike the other mods in the forum who seem to have a more level headed and consistent approach to moderation.

I believe that if you read over Guan Yin's posts in this thread from the start you will see what I'm seeing which is huge swings in this moderator's attitude and quite worryingly, some bipolar tendencies. And this has all occurred in one thread.

You can also see that even though she has called me a liar she has no intention of apologising and does not feel on a personal level that she should apologise.

Overall you would have to be greatly concerned with the ability of someone to moderate properly when there are such huge swings in their personality as has been evident in this thread.

I don't expect an apology at this stage as its clear it would only be forced and not genuine.

Can we not have a discussion regarding the moderation of the soccer forum where people can openly discuss their issues with the moderation/moderators without fear of being banned for posting in the wrong place?

I feel this would help the moderators a lot and the forum members, although Guan Yin's ability must be seriously questionable with what has gone on in this thread.

This helpdesk may be helpful to you guys but in fairness it seems like a case of divide and conquer as only one ordinary member can post here. My views I'm certain are held by many, many of the more respected members of the soccer forum.

seamus

eagle eye wrote: »

To the SMODs

I stated in the op that I did feel that Guan Yin does not act consistently in her moderation of the Soccer forum.
I stated that I personally believe that a huge majority of the regular posters in the Soccer forum are unhappy with the moderation of Guan Yin.

I later explained some of my concerns over this moderator and included posts and threads.
I said that I believe that this moderator does not act fairly across the forum.
I said that this moderator seems to act irrationally at times.

I believe that this moderator is gung ho/goes ott with her moderation at times, unlike the other mods in the forum who seem to have a more level headed and consistent approach to moderation.

That's your opinion. I've done my best to read over this thread and get as much information in the shortest time possible. As best I can see, you managed to point out one inconsistency within thousands of words. That's hardly indicative of anything except the fact that GY is human. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't share it (or at least haven't been convinced of it), and the same seems to be true for anyone else who's responded to this thread. You can't continually state your opinion in the hope that eventually everyone will agree with you.

I believe that if you read over Guan Yin's posts in this thread from the start you will see what I'm seeing which is huge swings in this moderator's attitude and quite worryingly, some bipolar tendencies. And this has all occurred in one thread.

Now you're diagnosing mental illness? You're aware of how offensive that is?

You can also see that even though she has called me a liar she has no intention of apologising and does not feel on a personal level that she should apologise.

I don't see any reason why she should apologise. You implied that she had gone back and deleted all of the evidence you were looking for and Gordon went back (as did I separately - I didn't post because Gordon got there first) and couldn't find any evidence of such. Whether or not you out-and-out accused her is irrelevant. This isn't a court of law. You said you "assumed" they had been deleted, which is an accusation in itself.

I suggest that you apologise privately to GY for your accusations.

Can we not have a discussion regarding the moderation of the soccer forum where people can openly discuss their issues with the moderation/moderators without fear of being banned for posting in the wrong place?

It's worthy of consideration. But it's a tough one. Because first you need to work out whether there actually are a significant number of grievances or just some very noisy angry people. That is, Soccer is the 2nd largest forum on this site. And I would consider it to be the most contentious (everyone has an opinion). Before you could consider listening to the torrent of complaints, you need to decide whether they are 10% of the soccer population or 0.1% of the soccer population.
The former represents a significant level of unhappiness which can be dealt with as one. The latter represents an insignificant level where each complaint can be dealt with individually.

There are discussions currently ongoing about this regarding the site as a whole, but it's going to be slow-moving. So don't bother continually asking "when", as you won't get an answer. As best I understand it, changes have been made to the moderation on soccer since this thread started, so sit back and see how they work out.

This helpdesk may be helpful to you guys but in fairness it seems like a case of divide and conquer as only one ordinary member can post here.

It's nothing to do with divide and conquer. A single thread for anyone to make their complaint has a very specific problem - nobody's complaint gets listened to. If others were allowed to post on this thread, it would be four times longer but would contain about a tenth of the content.

If there are very general issues you have with regards to moderation on the soccer forum (as opposed to a single complaint about a single incident, which is what this effectively was) and you know others that feel the same, then I suggest that you all put your heads together, put it into a cogent argument with examples and suggestions on how to fix it and then you start a thread in Feedback where everyone in agreement adds a reply, "I was involved in drafting this thread and I agree with the OP".

That's the boards equivalent of marching with placards and will be far more effective in getting your point across than everyone piling in and griping about their specific problems with no consideration for the OP.

On the other hand, if you can't get a rabble together, you are free to start another thread here on Help Desk, but make sure you have a specific complaint to make, as well as evidence to back up your complaint.

There's nothing more to add. You will want to reply to my post, but having read the rest of this thread you're just going to disagree with me too. I've outlined what you can do next. I was going to lock it, but I imagine that would just result in another thread.

I'll read your next post, but I'm not going to respond unless it contains some pertinent information which hasn't already been included in this thread and which is significant enough to change my mind. So if you don't get a response, you can assume my response to your next post is, "I disagree". On the other hand, you could choose to not need to the get last word in and go off and do what I suggest without responding to this post at all.

eagle eye

seamus wrote: »

I don't see any reason why she should apologise. You implied that she had gone back and deleted all of the evidence you were looking for and Gordon went back (as did I separately - I didn't post because Gordon got there first) and couldn't find any evidence of such. Whether or not you out-and-out accused her is irrelevant. This isn't a court of law. You said you "assumed" they had been deleted, which is an accusation in itself.

I suggest that you apologise privately to GY for your accusations.

This thread has went on long enough and I've said my piece. Thank you for the advice.

The only issue I have is concerning what you say in what I left above of your post.
It seems that there is something wrong here. You are now telling me that I intimated that Guan Yin had gone back and deleted posts. I never intimated any such thing. I explained this when I was attacked in this thread by Guan Yin. I've seen posts deleted before and nobody knew how it happened, I presume this happens quite a lot on a forum this large.
I never made any false accusations either of which I was accused.

I cannot believe that you come here and tell me I said that. I did not in any way state, suggest or intimate in any way that Guan Yin deleted posts. My English is quite clear and how anybody could mistake that for what you say is beyond me. I spent a long time(hours) looking for relevant posts and could not find them and made a remark that they must have been deleted. I did not say anymore about it than that.

I did make a mistake mixing up two usernames but as I had no previous need to know them apart its understandable with them being Pighead and Pigman. After more searching I found what I was talking about and posted it in this thread.

I was also called a liar here and you don't address that at all. I find that strange as you clearly read the posts and must have seen my being called a liar on numerous occasions even though I never did make any false statements in the thread.