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religious Doctor

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  • 24-01-2009 12:36am
    #1
    mukki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭mukki


    would you have faith (pun not intended) in a doctor who was religious?

    just thinking today, if a doctor knows all the workings of a human body surly he would know that there is no way that saying a few old prayers in your head can fix health or other problems

    if i saw a doctor entering a church* i'd be worried that he might think that their is some other force controling the world and that we have no control over destiny and all that bull.

    * except funerals and weddings are a mark of respect


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    #2
    Kara Salty Grocer
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Kara Salty Grocer


    The two are seperate things entirely and discrimination on either side on such grounds would be ridiculous


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    #3
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Good luck finding an atheist doctor in Ireland.


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    #4
    mukki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭mukki


    lol, okay but if you had a choice which would you go for?


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    #5
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    A medical doctors religious faith in 99.9% of cases has no bearing on their performance as a doctor. They may believe faith can heal but they know medicine can and they are trained to use medicine not faith. I have no idea what religious persuasion my GP holds, nor do I know that of the surgeon who removed my appendix 2 weeks ago, nor do I care.


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    #6
    thusspakeblixa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭thusspakeblixa


    My own Doctor is a Quaker, and I amn't dead yet, so I think he's OK.


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    #7
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    mukki wrote: »
    if i saw a doctor entering a church* i'd be worried [...]
    I'd be far more worried if I saw seeing a pilot praying as he hopped into the driving seat.


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    #8
    laura!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭laura!


    if a religion was that controlling over the doctors views on life, then why on earth would that person have become a doctor in the first place? people become doctors to save others lives..... so if some one believed that only god determined ones health and survival chances, they wouldn't have became a doctor at all


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    #9
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    mukki wrote: »
    would you have faith (pun not intended) in a doctor who was religious?

    just thinking today, if a doctor knows all the workings of a human body surly he would know that there is no way that saying a few old prayers in your head can fix health or other problems
    You don't think that a doctor would use his medical skills to heal you? Speaking for Christianity, there is no aversion to the use of medical science to heal people. There are examples in the Bible.

    Many doctors go to my church and I'm fairly sure that they do as good a job as their colleagues of no faith.


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    #10
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    laura! wrote: »
    if a religion was that controlling over the doctors views on life, then why on earth would that person have become a doctor in the first place? people become doctors to save others lives..... so if some one believed that only god determined ones health and survival chances, they wouldn't have became a doctor at all

    yes, that's what every last religious person believes. :rolleyes:


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    #11
    laura!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭laura!


    Húrin wrote: »
    yes, that's what every last religious person believes. :rolleyes:



    am religious but i dont believe that!!!!


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, and I don't see why it should bother anybody else. If the doctor bases their profession on what they've been thought about medicine, then that's ok; but, if they base it on religion and superstition, then, obviously, it's not. But, I don't believe there are many, if any, doctors who would base their professional life on their religion.

    They're two seperate issues: they have no bearing on each other at all.


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    #13
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I would have more faith in a doctor who expressed Christianity, and infact in a stressful situation like the one in which they work in I can see how it could be beneficial for those in the medical profession to have faith, as well as others of course.

    I would have more faith in such a doctor because in trusting that God is with them in their work, they are probably less likely to freak out.


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    #14
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    My main worry with a religious doctor would be their attitude to certain issues in terms of female reproductive health. Apart from that - I wouldn't have a problem with one, as long as they weren't pushing faith in my face.


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    #15
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    I don't believe there are many, if any, doctors who would base their professional life on their religion.
    Unfortunately, that's not true.

    There are quite a few organizations for professional doctors who are also religious -- the UK-based CMF (around 5,000 members) and the ICMDA are two christian ones, and there are plenty of similar organizations for other religions.

    Amongst other things, members of the UK-based CMF have apparently used doctor-patient trust relationship to proselytize (at the behest of the CMF), of publishing highly unbalanced articles on the risks of gay sex and of telling its student members that demonic possession can cause mental illness. The ICMDA, on the other hand, openly advocates creationism while its five aims are solely concerned with proselytization.

    There's also a long-running dispute in the USA, over whether or not chemists are allowed to refuse to sell things that they claim disagree with their religious views -- apparently, it's difficult to buy contraceptives in many towns in the bible belt.

    .


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    #16
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    In fairness robindch it's also difficult to buy alcohol on Sundays in the Bible Belt too and to be honest with you if it's a cultural norm not to sell contraceptives I would respect and agree with that 100%, and it's only the right of people who run these shops to determine this.


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    #17
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Jakkass wrote: »
    if it's a cultural norm not to sell contraceptives I would respect and agree with that 100%
    Fifty years ago in the bible belt, it was the cultural norm to refuse to serve people with black skin.


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    #18
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I would have more faith in such a doctor because in trusting that God is with them in their work, they are probably less likely to freak out.


    Being an atheist doctor, i have to say that most religious colleagues of mine tend to fare worse in the freaking out department. I know a few and most of them have very poor coping skills (and two of whom are probably going to go back to college because they can't handle it). Not entirely sure why it happens but it seems like they never learned the same self-reliance that the rest of us were forced to learn as a junior doctor. When you're put in stressful situations every day, I reckon it's important that you are confident enough in your own ability to handle things than confident in a god, because at the end of the day you're the one who has to sort out the emergencies. Depending on a higher power would be lovely, but it's a maladaptive sort of behaviour for a doctor to place utmost trust in something which is not physically helpful


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    #19
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    As long as they didn't just get their doctorate in theology... :p


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    robindch wrote: »
    Unfortunately, that's not true.

    You've some interesting links in that post. I honestly didn't think that it would influence their profession; but, as you say, it does. That's scary, definitely not something that should be allowed (even though it'd be impossible to control).


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    #21
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    sink wrote: »
    A medical doctors religious faith in 99.9% of cases has no bearing on their performance as a doctor. They may believe faith can heal but they know medicine can and they are trained to use medicine not faith. I have no idea what religious persuasion my GP holds, nor do I know that of the surgeon who removed my appendix 2 weeks ago, nor do I care.

    yes but its the 0.1% of other cases where it does have bearing that matters.


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    #22
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    yes but its the 0.1% of other cases where it does have bearing that matters.

    Indeed, so in 0.1% of cases you get a better deal from your doctor.

    I was speaking with a member of our church who is a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons (I've never quite figured out how that works since we live in a Republic). He is excellent at his job as assessed by the authorities and his peers and his rise through the ranks in the medical world seems quite meteoric. After he goes home from work he spends at least an hour praying for the various patients he has treated that day. I can't see how that can possibly make him a worse doctor, and he is convinced it makes him a better doctor and increases the quality of care his patients receive.


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    #23
    sionnach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭sionnach


    PDN wrote: »
    Indeed, so in 0.1% of cases you get a better deal from your doctor.
    Assuming religion has a positive bearing.
    PDN wrote: »
    After he goes home from work he spends at least an hour praying for the various patients he has treated that day. I can't see how that can possibly make him a worse doctor

    This doesn't make him a worse doctor, but spending that hour reading up about new treatments, diagnosis techniques etc. would certainly make him a better doctor.


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    #24
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Jakkass wrote: »
    In fairness robindch it's also difficult to buy alcohol on Sundays in the Bible Belt too and to be honest with you if it's a cultural norm not to sell contraceptives I would respect and agree with that 100%, and it's only the right of people who run these shops to determine this.

    No it bloody well isnt.

    What pharmaceuticals and medical devices can be sold over the counter or through a pharmacy is a matter of federal law and it damn well shouldnt be governed by peoples supersititous nonsense.

    If someone wants to run a pharmacy they should be prepared to follow the rules rather than using it as a pulpit to push their dodgy religious views on others.

    Thereason these dime-store mullahs have managed to keep the argument going (and continue to restrict the flow of drugs and contraceptives to people) is because of a lack of spine in legislation to fight religious topics and people who support this kind of commercial zealotry with lines like you said above.


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    #25
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    PDN wrote: »
    Indeed, so in 0.1% of cases you get a better deal from your doctor.

    I was speaking with a member of our church who is a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons (I've never quite figured out how that works since we live in a Republic). He is excellent at his job as assessed by the authorities and his peers and his rise through the ranks in the medical world seems quite meteoric. After he goes home from work he spends at least an hour praying for the various patients he has treated that day. I can't see how that can possibly make him a worse doctor, and he is convinced it makes him a better doctor and increases the quality of care his patients receive.


    Your post seems to thing being good at his job and being a shooting star in the world of surgery is directly attributable to religion. I would say that chances are it's because he's a hard worker, gets involved in research and has a good bedside manner. I could point out to you any number of incredibly successful doctors (particularly a number of young female consultants, some in surgery) who have also rocketed through the ranks for the same reason, none of whom are religious or go through the whole "praying for their patients" rigmarole. Religion has no bearing on your performance. A good bedside manner and ability to gain your patients' trust and confidence is the most positive impact a doctor can have on quality of care.

    How does praying for them improve the quality of care they receive?


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    #26
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    sionnach wrote: »
    This doesn't make him a worse doctor, but spending that hour reading up about new treatments, diagnosis techniques etc. would certainly make him a better doctor.
    That's totally unfair. An atheist doctor could be better spent doing medical homework than reading The God Delusion, doing yoga or playing golf on a Sunday.
    MatthewVII wrote: »
    Your post seems to thing being good at his job and being a shooting star in the world of surgery is directly attributable to religion.
    I didn't read that into it I have to say.


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    #27
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    Dades wrote: »
    I didn't read that into it I have to say.

    Well what I saw was

    - There is an amazing doctor who is incredible

    - He is very religious

    To me, this implies that PDN is drawing a link between these two points. That he believes his patients receive a better quality of care because he prays for them is just icing on the cake.


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    #28
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    PDN wrote: »
    faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith

    faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faithfaith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith faith



    .......................


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    #29
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    thats over thinking it a bit op in my opinion. Im not religious but i dont go around looking for excuses not to believe in people ie doctors ect. Maybe some people belive praying can work. It could be a placebo for all we know or i could be wrong and there might be a god. I dunno


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    #30
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    MatthewVII wrote: »
    Not entirely sure why it happens but it seems like they never learned the same self-reliance that the rest of us were forced to learn as a junior doctor. When you're put in stressful situations every day, I reckon it's important that you are confident enough in your own ability to handle things than confident in a god, because at the end of the day you're the one who has to sort out the emergencies.
    MatthewVII wrote: »
    Religion has no bearing on your performance. A good bedside manner and ability to gain your patients' trust and confidence is the most positive impact a doctor can have on quality of care

    So religion can only ever have negative effects? What about the possibility that religion could improve the doctor's relational skills? I suppose your worldview demands that you dismiss this possibility.


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    #31
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    Húrin wrote: »
    So religion can only ever have negative effects? What about the possibility that religion could improve the doctor's relational skills? I suppose your worldview demands that you dismiss this possibility.

    I don't really see a link between religion and relational skills. I see a link between being a caring person and relational skills. I don't think this comes from religion.


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