Programming Jobs

tolteq

Hello to all,

Am doing a Graduate diploma in IT. And am thinking about going into programming. I see a lot of programmer jobs looking for people with 3 - 5 years experience. any ideas on how to get into the industry? even the junior developer jobs want somebody with exp... and CS degree....

=SSSSS.

Thanks

CreepingDeath

tolteq wrote: »

any ideas on how to get into the industry? even the junior developer jobs want somebody with exp... and CS degree...

Maybe approach some companies asking if they'll give you any ideas for your final year project. Something that is useful to that company.
You'll develop ties with them and it's a definite foot in the door when you graduate.
Or see if your college has a careers officer who has a list of companies who are interested in graduates, or have hired them in the past.

Our company would require a degree minimum though.

An alternative approach is to get into a big enough company at a lower position, like customer support / QA, and after serving your time there, say for a year, see about transferring to a programming position.

IRLConor

It's a difficult problem to overcome indeed.

The issue is that hiring a novice or substandard programmer has the potential to damage a project so badly that it's not worth the risk for many employers. That's what they're trying to overcome with the 3-5 years experience thing. The only way around it is to find some arrangement where you compensate for the risk somehow.

For me, that consisted of 1) working for a startup during college and 2) contracting for Americans with a bunch of friends from college after we graduated. In the first case, I was cheap, flexible about hours and worked relatively quickly. In the second case, we started off cheap (super-cheap by US standards) and worked up the price later. The initial cheapness made it an acceptable risk for our clients.

I would say that it's worth trying to pick up small contracting jobs as soon as you can do them. Small jobs are lower risk for many companies since less money is at stake. The contacts you pick up as you work will help you either build the contracting work into a viable business or find you a stable job.

If it turns out that you want programming to become your career I would recommend you consider doing a degree. It will open up a good few more doors for you.

patftrears

tolteq wrote: »

Hello to all,

Am doing a Graduate diploma in IT. And am thinking about going into programming. I see a lot of programmer jobs looking for people with 3 - 5 years experience. any ideas on how to get into the industry? even the junior developer jobs want somebody with exp... and CS degree....

=SSSSS.

Thanks

I hire programmers, usually graduates, can't afford 3+ year guys (but prices have come down a lot).

This is what I look for, they have worked on a college project that uses the same technology that we use.
They need to be able to understand all aspects of the project etc..

Do a good project, document it, master the technology you use for the project, make sure it does something that can be seen and tested.

Look for companies advertising jobs that require skills in that technology and you should get an interview, then it's up to you to prove you can be useful to the company.

Project experience is what companies want, a great thing is if you encountered a problem during the project and solved it some how, because 9/10 times everyone who uses the same technology will encounter the same problems.
If you encountered the problem it shows you were really using the technology to the fullest and if you solved it the same way as the company hiring, you're in.

Ginger

Just like the above poster, that is how I got my first job. I passed the initial interview with the manager and then was passed onto the pm and lead dev. They asked have you ever done such and such and said yes but in a rare case it happens you also need to do this. Lead dev, excuses himself and leaves comes back 10 mins later and says thanks you just solved the issue we were having for the last 2 weeks with x.. got the job straight away.

Like it has been said, master a technology. Unfortunately a lot of people go for C++ as the one to master and that takes a lot more time and the jobs tend to be more niche. Have a look at PHP, .NET etc etc as your tech of choice because its no so much easier to master but they jobs tend to be wide and varied

mountainyman

Read Joel Spolsky's blog. he talks about what he looks for.

Civilian_Target

Ginger wrote: »

Just like the above poster, that is how I got my first job. I passed the initial interview with the manager and then was passed onto the pm and lead dev. They asked have you ever done such and such and said yes but in a rare case it happens you also need to do this. Lead dev, excuses himself and leaves comes back 10 mins later and says thanks you just solved the issue we were having for the last 2 weeks with x.. got the job straight away.

Agreed, the way I got my foot in the door was I interviewed for a position that required more experience than I had, although I had most of the right buzzwords to some degree. The managerial interview let me down, but I impressed the tech guys sufficiently that they called me back for a slightly less demanding post... within 3 months I had been moved to something more demanding, which turned out to be much more interesting!

stevenmu

Most colleges will have some kind of careers office and companies willing to hire graduates will often get in touch with them and even arrange interviews through them. Drop by and see if they have anyone looking for graduates or if they will take your name for a list of interested people or something.

jellie

i was in the same position about a year & half ago. i applied for every single programming job that specified 0-1 years. maybe even try the 1-2 years ones. youll get some interviews at least. i went through about 4/5 before I got something, & felt like a right idiot in some of the interviews which was very offputting, but got there eventually.

Some people WILL take on graduates cause theyre cheaper

Good luck with it

tolteq

C++ huh Perl?!?!?........

They're only teching us Java!!!!!! Will have to see what comes in Advanced Programming this Semester. I think I will try for some of the taught Masters first......

Ginger

Java is good (in coffee .NET joke sorry!)

Java is like .NET in its size.. pick an aspect and work with that. I am not a Java programmer, but I know a lot of people who are and they say the same thing

Tar.Aldarion

Just graduated with a 1.1 in elec + computer engineering degree but like the OP don't have a notion what to do. The programming taught in college was pretty basic compared to what people seem to have to do in a job. Would a good think to do be work as QA and do some programming cert or something during it in your own time? Know very little about it. Would also like database things like SQL but we did none in college apart from what little I did for my final year project. No idea what to do.

Webmonkey

I am doing a final year project on Embedded Systems running Linux etc: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055400078

Why am I doing this? I am doing this so that I get great experience with Linux, ARM and cross compiling. I think it will benefit me in the future and getting a job. This project causes such problems but I am learning so much. I picked it because I think it won't look like the standard FYP / web application etc. I am going to make it open source and start a project website and something on sourceforge afterwards.

I think this is what employers will like, something different. If you are out of college, it might be worth spending time working on a project yourself and get more people involved, make it open source. It might give you the upper edge to other graduates. Show initiative, they'll like this.
People complain can't get experience, but what is wrong with going off and doing something in your own accord.

Creamy Goodness

sorry for hijacking the thread but i too am thinking of my near future job.

i'm in final year of a 4 year BSc. Computer Science in DIT. and would like to get a job with some programming involved.

we've been taught an array of languages mainly C (1st year) / C++ (2nd year) / Java (3rd+4th year) / perl (4th year + work placement) / php/sql/ajax/etc. (work placement).

I done a 6 month work placement where I was the sole developer and co-designer (with 3 other people) of web applications to track software faults and minutes of meetings along with other tasks.

a big part of this year is doing a final year project, and feeling like i hadn't really had a challenge so far in this degree (programming wise) i decided to take on a project using C and the GTK UI libraries.

Will this look good to an employer? you know the way when someone mentions UI programming Java or C# is mentioned way before C or C++ for that matter, that i can sufficently program UI or non UI program with C.

Do employers like to see final year projects listed on CV's?

Also is there any companies out there that are looking for C using GTK programmers? i haven't seen any and was wondering do they exist?

FruitLover

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Also is there any companies out there that are looking for C using GTK programmers? i haven't seen any and was wondering do they exist?

I wouldn't say so, but GUI programming is GUI programming - you'll learn a lot by using GTK that will transfer to QT, Swing, etc. Make sure you read up on UI design as well as the actual coding part.