Tefl in South Korea

sweetthing · 02-10-2010 3:40pm

type in 'Avalon korea' into google.

Have a read over some of the thread you find on daves esl.

I have heard some terrible stories about them and would never choose to work for them.

Also 2.1 is a bit low but you take what you can get (though I'd prefer nothing over avalon)

Thanks a mill for replying cloneslad! Did a search there and seems to be failry mixed feedback on the net alright. As a chain though, surely the management of the school would be the decesive factor in how we're treated? Unless Avalon has specific policies to treat their employees poorly? There are already 2 irish teachers there which is fairly promising and we're getting interviewed by one of them on monday so hopefully they'll give us an honest scoop on the place.

I worked for a Choueifat school in Qatar before and that school gets a really bad rep online, but I found that people in schools with more relaxed management had a much better time of it, so I'm hoping that'll be the case here.

Do you have any horror stories of Avalon of your own or your friends to relate Cloneslad? Best get all the bad info I can before I decide and can be very hard to judge from heresay on the net and I'd be more wont to trust what the people on this forum have to say (sites like davesesl cafe seem overly negative!)

We're verging on the desperate here, as we've been searching all summer and coming up empty, so as long as the place was passably workable then I'd say we'd prob go for it. Iksan seems decent enough (I've heard nearby Jeonju described as the San Fransisco of S Korea

not sure how true that is though!) so unless we find something else soon it could be our only option. I might ask our recruiter if she has had positive experiences from clients

Like you said, i'll take what I can get!!

cloneslad · 02-10-2010 4:13pm

no, there are no avalons where I am so I have not heard any stories directly, just what I have seen on the net.

People say lots of bad things on the net about my school (which is a large chain) but mine is a franchise. Our owner just bought the name to increase the attraction towards the parents.

Get the news of the local teachers, they can tell you more than anyone crying on the internet can....and my god do ESL teachers in korea love to complain.

If the irish teachers are not positive then don't take it. Keep applying to as many positions as possible. Don't only use recrutiers, try going directly to schools as this will decrease the competition for you.

About Jeonju being the San Fran of Korea, forget that right there. They claim Jeju to be like hawaii, if it is, then I never wanna go to hawaii.

livinginkorea · 03-10-2010 2:12am

My old university just posted an add on Dave's for anybody interested in teaching freshman with 4 months off a year.

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=43951

Kyungwon University, a private four-year university in the vicinity of Bundang, has teaching positions open for a number of qualified EFL instructors. The position starts in the spring semester of 2011 (Mar. 1). The ideal candidate will have the ability to work in supportive, collaborative environment and make on-going efforts to make learning English an enjoyable and productive experience.

--POSITION:
Full-time English Instructor (one-year contract; renewable)

--QUALIFICATIONS:
Candidates should be native speakers of English with a Bachelor’s or higher degree from an accredited four-year university. English, linguistics, or education majors with previous experience teaching university level international students are preferred. Candidates with a Master’s degree in TESOL or some related disciplines with previous teaching experience are strongly desired.
** Candidates should be available for an on-campus interview.

--RESPONSIBILITIES:
The instructor will teach primarily Freshman English Conversation and Academic English courses, a minimum of 15 hours per week for spring and fall semesters. This will involve teaching four skills of English at various levels of proficiency. Other responsibilities will include material preparation for the courses that he or she is teaching and some limited administrative responsibilities such as testing, interviews, program administration, and students' counseling. Additional teaching hours may be required during the regular semesters and summer or winter session with overtime pay.

--REQUIRED DOCUMENTS:
To be considered, please send the listed documents below by mail or email.
All documents must be submitted by 5 p.m., Oct. 22, 2010.

1) Resume with your photo attached
2) Cover letter stating classroom experience and teaching philosophy
3) Diplomas and transcripts (copies accepted for initial review) from all post-secondary education
4) 2 recent letters of reference regarding your teaching abilities and character
5) Certificates in TESOL or equivalents (copies accepted for initial review)
6) Copies of the personal data pages of your passport and alien registration card if applicable

--SALARY AND BENEFITS:
The general starting salary range is between ￦3.0 million and ￦3.5 million per month, commensurate with the candidate’s academic preparation and teaching experience.
Benefits include subsidized medical insurance, subsidized Korea Teachers Pension, fully paid vacation, and shared office equipped with basic communication facilities.

--ADDRESS:
ATTN: Seung-yeon Oh
The International Language Center
Kyungwon University, 65 San,
Bokjeong-dong, Seongnam, Gyeonggi-Do, 461-701

--EMAIL: osy0331@kyungwon.ac.kr

Should you have any questions, please email Seung-yeon Oh at osy0331@kyungwon.ac.kr.

livinginkorea · 03-10-2010 2:15am

By the way that job is for people in Korea for the interview.

sweetthing · 03-10-2010 12:25pm

no, there are no avalons where I am so I have not heard any stories directly, just what I have seen on the net.

People say lots of bad things on the net about my school (which is a large chain) but mine is a franchise. Our owner just bought the name to increase the attraction towards the parents.

Get the news of the local teachers, they can tell you more than anyone crying on the internet can....and my god do ESL teachers in korea love to complain.

If the irish teachers are not positive then don't take it. Keep applying to as many positions as possible. Don't only use recrutiers, try going directly to schools as this will decrease the competition for you.

About Jeonju being the San Fran of Korea, forget that right there. They claim Jeju to be like hawaii, if it is, then I never wanna go to hawaii.

Thanks so much for the advice Cloneslad. Looking forward to the interview now so I can get a better picture of the school. Hope they're somewhat honest with me!!

Choccie Lover · 03-10-2010 12:32pm

Does anyone have any experience of living in Sokcho? It looks lovely as a place to visit. But how about spending a year there?

monosharp · 03-10-2010 4:25pm

Cole wrote: »

According to WSI's website, they provide "housing assistance". Whatever that consists of, it's not free housing and this seems to be confirmed from what I've read from other online discussions regarding WSI in Korea.

They will fork out key money to a certain sum which will be enough to pay for certain types of apartment but if you want a better apartment you will have to add your own money to this.

There is a special kind of way to rent property here in Korea where you don't actually pay rent but instead give the landlord a large sum of money. He takes this money, puts it into a bank and gets the interest. Once you move out he will give you back your original sum of money.

WSI will give you a sum of money. If you want to live in an OK apartment this will pay for it (the rent). If you want a better apartment you will have to add your own money to this.

i.e > It IS free accommodation.

I've lived here for years and worked for WSI. I know what I'm talking about.

There's a lot of help there, but my understanding is that there are plenty of jobs out there where all you have to pay are utility bills.

Your understanding is wrong. Pagoda do provide free accommodation. Unless they've changed their policies in the last 6 months.

It all depends on your choice of apartment.

cloneslad · 03-10-2010 5:32pm

Choccie Lover wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience of living in Sokcho? It looks lovely as a place to visit. But how about spending a year there?

Sokcho is very very very nice. I went there two weeks ago. The city is pretty large (for Irish standards). There are well over 100,000 people living in it at this stage.

You would be pretty far fronm any of the main cities (daegu, seoul, busan) but you could get buses to them easily enough I would imagine.

If you like the outdoors you will love sokcho, but a little 100-125cc scooter and you could really take advantage of the place and seoraksan national park right next to it. It's also on the coast too and they have some nice beaches there too, though some further north are not allowed to be used as they run along the border with north korea.

The place had quite a few supermarkets, at least one cinema that I saw and a hell of a lot of restaurants, not sure if they have many western restaurants though.

I don't know what the western population is there, I saw quite a few whities up around seoraksan (10 min drive from sokcho) but i'd imagine these were all tourists to the area and not local to sokcho.

It wouldn't be a bad place to get your foot in the door and spend a year. if you intend staying longer than one year it would allow you to have a nice first year to settle in, then you could look for a new job after your 12 months in seoul / busan etc if big city living is what you want

cloneslad · 03-10-2010 5:37pm

monosharp wrote: »

There is a special kind of way to rent property here in Korea where you don't actually pay rent but instead give the landlord a large sum of money. He takes this money, puts it into a bank and gets the interest. Once you move out he will give you back your original sum of money.

.

you do pay a rent, it's just not as high as one would expect to pay back home. For example, if you pay 10 million won key money you might have to pay 600,000 a month rent, pay 20 million it could be 500,000 per month.

In short, the more key money you pay, the less rent you will pay.

Also take into account that you will have to pay a service charge for your apartment. Most small studio apartments will have to pay around 50,000 per month for this. My 2 bedroom apartment is between 80-100k a month, depending on the electricity used in the common area for air con etc.

monosharp · 04-10-2010 3:31am

cloneslad wrote: »

you do pay a rent, it's just not as high as one would expect to pay back home. For example, if you pay 10 million won key money you might have to pay 600,000 a month rent, pay 20 million it could be 500,000 per month.

And pay 40 million won key money for a small officetel room and you don't pay any rent.

Pay 90-100 million won key money and you can have a very nice 3 bedroom apartment without paying any rent.

I have lived here going on 4 years now and I have never paid any rent.

I've worked for WSI, Pagoda and other institutions and I have never paid any rent. Until this year I used their key money, now I'm using mine and my wifes key money.

In short, the more key money you pay, the less rent you will pay.

Yes and pay enough key money and you don't pay any rent which is by far the most popular way that most people rent property here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse

I only know one foreigner who pays rent and that's because he only has a part-time contract (by choice) because of which, his employer will only give him 10 million for key money.

Also take into account that you will have to pay a service charge for your apartment. Most small studio apartments will have to pay around 50,000 per month for this. My 2 bedroom apartment is between 80-100k a month, depending on the electricity used in the common area for air con etc.

Yes but that's not rent.

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 4:28am

The majority of schools will not give that type of money for key money. You will be very lucky if most can give you any more than 10-15 million especially if you are on a 1 year contract, what school will give you 100million for an apartment? especially if they aren't sure if you're gonna stay or not (On an E2 visa you can always pull a runner, F2 you're more likely to stay in Korea, though maybe not in your job)

As for paying it for yourself, that is hardly going to be an option for the people coiming over here, I somehow doubt they have 50-60k floating around in their bank account to hand over as key money for a stranger to invest it.

So, again, I reiterate. People do pay rent in Korea and more than likely anyone coming over to korea on a 1st year contract will also have to pay rent.

monosharp · 04-10-2010 5:17am

cloneslad wrote: »

The majority of schools will not give that type of money for key money.

And all the hagwons here that give free accommodation, you think they own the apartments they stick their teachers into ?

Let's take 3 seconds to search for a job.

http://www.worknplay.co.kr/view_JOB.php?sect=2&id=testjob&sele=&p=1&keyfield=&keyword=&no=192108&cateCode=&slist=1&keyword_top=&gally=3&job_sel=&type_sel=&loca1_sel=&loca2_sel=&loca3_sel=

Oh look, housing included.

You will be very lucky if most can give you any more than 10-15 million

I didn't say they give you the money, I said they get free housing for you. Officetel single housing can be as cheap as 35 million key money.

They give the landlord the key money, you get the housing for free.

especially if you are on a 1 year contract, what school will give you 100million for an apartment?

I wasn't saying that schools would pay 100 million. I was simply pointing out that if you pay 100 million key money you can get a very nice 3 bedroom apartment rent free. I'm currently living in one rent free because I have given the landlord that amount.

As for paying it for yourself, that is hardly going to be an option for the people coiming over here, I somehow doubt they have 50-60k floating around in their bank account to hand over as key money for a stranger to invest it.

Of course not and I never said it was an option.

So, again, I reiterate. People do pay rent in Korea and more than likely anyone coming over to korea on a 1st year contract will also have to pay rent.

And once again let me state that if your working a full-time job here and paying rent your getting shafted by your employer.

Why don't you go check http://www.worknplay.co.kr/ and see how many hagwon/other jobs provide free housing compared to those that don't.

Any (full-time) E2 job I have ever seen always provides free housing. It might be **** housing but it is nevertheless free **** housing.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this with you because any website you search will show you that the vast vast majority of E2 jobs come with free housing. It's standard.

edit: Actually I went to the 3 second trouble of googling 'teaching english in korea housing' and got the following links;
http://www.asia-pacific-connections.com/housing_details.html
"Almost all teaching jobs in Korea, and all the jobs that APC handles, include rent-free accommodation for the duration of the contract"

http://www.gone2korea.com/benefits-of-teaching.html
"Free Accommodation"

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0501/teaching_english_and_living_in_south_korea.shtml
"Furthermore, schools generally paid for airfare and housing in addition to an annual salary."

http://www.iloveesl.com/
"With a low cost of living, free housing and free airfare, Korea certainly offers the most lucrative teaching English job opportunities in the world."

How long have you been here and are you really paying rent ? That's madness.

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 5:36am

We are arguing over two different things here. I disagreed with something you said and you have changed it to something different.

This is the bit I disagreed on

There is a special kind of way to rent property here in Korea where you don't actually pay rent

I said

you do pay a rent, it's just not as high as one would expect to pay back home. For example, if you pay 10 million won key money you might have to pay 600,000 a month rent, pay 20 million it could be 500,000 per month.

In short, the more key money you pay, the less rent you will pay.

I'm not arguing the point that schools give free housing. I have a really nice two bedroom apartment in the centre of town that I don't pay rent in and in my other years here I have never paid rent. This is because I have taken the school's free accomodation.

You will have to pay rent if you take the key money of your school and not their free housing offer.

However, I did live in a studio apartment the 1st year I was here (Feb 2007) lots of people are offered these apartments, or they can take key money of their employers and go find your own place. The employer only tends to offer about 10-15million (as they already have money tied up in the initial apartment they offered you).

If you get the 10-15 million of your boss then you will definitely be paying rent.

How long have you been here and are you really paying rent ? That's madness.

Came here at the start of 2007. No, I'm not paying rent.

Some of my friends got screwed over by their bosses when they came he first so they decided to get their own housing. They paid the key money themselves from saving from their first contract.

The savings weren't immense so they pay rent per month. This allows them to live safe in the knowledge that if they get screwed over they will have a place to stay and look for another job, but also allows them to not have to find a bank to lend them practically the price of the apartment as a downpayment.

monosharp · 04-10-2010 5:48am

cloneslad wrote: »

You will have to pay rent if you take the key money of your school and not their free housing offer.

Yes ? Which isn't relevant to what I was discussing. I answered a post where someone claimed that WSI and Pagoda don't give free accomodation which I corrected.

And you stated, and I quote; "People do pay rent in Korea and more than likely anyone coming over to korea on a 1st year contract will also have to pay rent."

Which is completely wrong. Anyone coming on a 1st year contract will almost certainly take the free accommodation provided.

If you meant people coming on a first year contract who take the key money from their school instead of taking the free accommodation have to pay rent then you really need to be more specific as it's hardly obvious from your post.

If you get the 10-15 million of your boss then you will definitely be paying rent.

10-15 then yes you will be paying rent but f-all if you choose a cheap officetel. With 15 million key money you could be paying as little as 200,000 rent.

But again this is not the point of this line of conversation. The original question was do WSI and Pagoda provide free accommodation, they certainly do.

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 5:55am

I took it that the poster was asking if they took housing assistance of an employer (i.e key money) would they have to pay rent.

You said that they won't. That in Korea if you pay key money you don't pay rent, it's how it works in korea.

Which of course is not true. If you pay the a hell of a lot of key money you won't pay rent. Unless of course you choose a shoe box. But why would anyone choose their own shoebox over the one provided for them anyway?

Anyway, we are derailing the thread from being informative to those reading it and being an arguement between ourselves over who is right and who is wrong, when it appears that both of us just didn't clearly state what we were trying to say.

But i'm right : )

livinginkorea · 04-10-2010 11:16am

I have been very lucky that I have never paid rent in Korea. I have always had the chun-sae (key money Koreans often call it). Most people try to pay the full amount because if they can't then they have to get a loan or pay some rent (if the landlord allows it). As a general rule, the price of the chun-sae is not a million miles away from the actual price of the house (around 130 million to buy for 100 million key money in our case).

In addition, make sure that when you do put down chun-sae on an apartment or house that you go to the local government office (can't remember if it's the dong or gu one) and get the housing contract stamped. That is your guarantee (backed by the state) that if the landlord goes bust that you will still get your money back (probably when the bank claims the house). I had heard of some people losing their entire key money when the owner went bust because of one small stamp.

NoQuarter · 04-10-2010 11:33am

Hi all!

I have an LLB in Law and was wondering if there is any demand from law firms in south korea or maybe hong kong to teach legal english to their lawyers?

If not, how well received is a law degree for getting a teaching place in a korean/chinese university? Ive asked this oer on daes but nobody has replied in a couple of weeks now!

Thanks!

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 1:32pm

NoQuarter wrote: »

Hi all!

I have an LLB in Law and was wondering if there is any demand from law firms in south korea or maybe hong kong to teach legal english to their lawyers?

If not, how well received is a law degree for getting a teaching place in a korean/chinese university? Ive asked this oer on daes but nobody has replied in a couple of weeks now!

Thanks!

I'm going to guess you have no experience teaching?

Can't imagine too many law firms wanting to hire you to teach their lawyers to be honest. You only have a degree in law and have nothing in teaching. They could easily get someone on an F2 / F4 visa with a masters in TESOL or Celta and also experience teaching. That's if they want to hire anyone at all.

As for a university. Having an undergraduate degree places you at the bottom rung of the ladder. You are well below even someone with just a bachelors and a few years experience teaching.

Universities would like to hire someone with a masters degree (though they do take people without them). There are hundreds of people out here with masters degrees and experience so your chance would be quite small.

Experience is the key to getting a job here (as well as contacts). You must have gained some experience to work your way into a university job.

Another small thing universities look for is for you to be in country to have an interview. Applying from Ireland will not get you an interview, especially with your low academic qualifications and you lack of work experience.

China could be a different story altogether (mainland, not so much Hong Kong I wouldn't think). Rural universities in China struggle to get people to teach English as most want to live in big cities. I know of a few people who taught in Universities there with only a Bachelors degree.

NoQuarter · 04-10-2010 1:42pm

Thanks cloneslad,

So as you said my only realistic options would be a rural university or taking one of the usual middle school etc jobs.

While i would like to do it, I wouldnt fancy working from 3pm - 10pm and getting no time to see the place.

If you were in my position, no teaching experience, just finished a degree in law and you wanted to get abroad to work for a year, what do you think the best i could hope to achieve is??

What would be the smartest thing i could do to get the best job I could possible get over there in my circumstances? I wouldnt be available to go until march as im doing some professional exams at the moment.

Cheers for the reply.

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 2:37pm

NoQuarter wrote: »

Thanks cloneslad,

So as you said my only realistic options would be a rural university or taking one of the usual middle school etc jobs.

While i would like to do it, I wouldnt fancy working from 3pm - 10pm and getting no time to see the place.

If you were in my position, no teaching experience, just finished a degree in law and you wanted to get abroad to work for a year, what do you think the best i could hope to achieve is??

What would be the smartest thing i could do to get the best job I could possible get over there in my circumstances? I wouldnt be available to go until march as im doing some professional exams at the moment.

Cheers for the reply.

When I said you could secure one in a rural location, I meant rural in China, not rural in Korea. I don't think you stand much chance of getting one in Korea, obviously there's the few exceptions to this, but you really need to be in coutnry to stand a chance of getting a uni job with only a bachelors.

You are not going to get to visit anymore of the coutry by finishing at 5pm as opposed to finishing at 9-10pm. It's not like you will go half way down the country and back again on a tues night and back again for work on a wednesday morning.

Not sure what I'd advise you tbh, Korea is good for earning and saving money and allowing you to travel when you finish, but apparentl people are finding it difficult to get a job here now.

monosharp · 04-10-2010 2:49pm

cloneslad wrote: »

I don't think you stand much chance of getting one in Korea, obviously there's the few exceptions to this, but you really need to be in coutnry to stand a chance of getting a uni job with only a bachelors.

Absolutely agree about the need to be in the country to get into a University but absolutely disagree with the chance of getting a uni job.

A bachelors degree is fine for getting into a uni. Now obviously your not going to get a job in one of the top Universities here but you stand a good chance of getting into one of the smaller ones even within the Seoul metropolitan area.

There are hundreds of Universities here. Most people don't even realise that there are hundreds of small universities dotted throughout Seoul and Incheon.

I have two friends working in Universities at the moment. Both only have bachelors degrees, one guy had a years experience and the other lad only had 6 months experience.

But as was already said, you do need to be in the country to get it. It's more or less pointless applying from abroad.

Not sure what I'd advise you tbh, Korea is good for earning and saving money and allowing you to travel when you finish, but apparentl people are finding it difficult to get a job here now.

That's the second time I've read that on this thread but I honestly don't see it here in practice. It's business as usual as far as I can see, it's no less busy than it was this time last year.

Then again I amn't working and I wouldn't be looking for school jobs anyways so I just have my mates to go on and they don't seem to be having any issues finding work.

NoQuarter · 04-10-2010 3:16pm

Ok so assuming i wouldnt get into a universary, i would still like to get the best experience from the year as i can. So while i wouldnt get to see more of the country after 5 as you say cloneslad, i still think that I could enjoy myself a bit better than having to work until 10. Mostly due to the fact that i would get up late and then spend the whole day in work and the repeat the process. (im lazy like that

).

Also its worth mentioning that I will be travelling with my girlfriend who has the same degree and also no teaching experience.

Is it an advantage to travel as a couple in terms of a school taking on 2 staff and having to provide one accomodation? Is that relevant at all?

You guys know your stuff so what do you think our best options are? Should we head to korea and see what we can get over there? We have no money though so that may not be an option.

Is it viable that the two of us could get the same hours in perhaps the same school or at least the same hours in the same city, and the same accomodation?

And is it viable to get a position with relatively few hours, under 30 for example. I think as a couple we could afford to do this as sharing costs would keep our expenditure lower. (food wise mostly)

Can you guys put us on the right track? I will be researching in dept myself after my exams but its great to be able to get a hint!

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 3:40pm

monosharp wrote: »

Absolutely agree about the need to be in the country to get into a University but absolutely disagree with the chance of getting a uni job.

A bachelors degree is fine for getting into a uni. Now obviously your not going to get a job in one of the top Universities here but you stand a good chance of getting into one of the smaller ones even within the Seoul metropolitan area.
.

I agree with the degree getting you into a small uni, but a lot of small unis offer very little more than a good hagwon/public school job. We have a small uni here were I am and I think most of the people working in it only have honours degrees but they all worked in the area when they got interviewed for it. The do have a lot of travelling around to do with it though and also have to work split shifts but they do have three day weekends and the uni pays for a car for them (if you choose not to use the car then you get a bigger salary).

If I was going to go for a uni gig I would prefer to have one with 12 hours a week, 4 months hols etc etc etc rather than a small one with pretty similar hours to a public school.

monosharp wrote: »

That's the second time I've read that on this thread but I honestly don't see it here in practice. It's business as usual as far as I can see, it's no less busy than it was this time last year.

Then again I amn't working and I wouldn't be looking for school jobs anyways so I just have my mates to go on and they don't seem to be having any issues finding work.

Yeah, I used the word apparently. I haven't noticed anything different. In fact I have noticed more and more schools opening around me so I would assume there should be more jobs, but people keep coming on here and daves esl complaining about how difficult it is to get hired.

If you have worked in Korea before you should be able to get hired very easily again. Those who struggle to get hired for a different school should have spent more time becoming friends with locals and making contacts.

cloneslad · 04-10-2010 3:53pm

Ok so assuming i wouldnt get into a universary, i would still like to get the best experience from the year as i can. So while i wouldnt get to see more of the country after 5 as you say cloneslad, i still think that I could enjoy myself a bit better than having to work until 10. Mostly due to the fact that i would get up late and then spend the whole day in work and the repeat the process. (im lazy like that ).

each to their own I suppose. I like getting up in the morning and go for a run or during the summer months going out to the beach then going into school. Running in the dark in Korea isn't fun, especially with the local driving.

Also its worth mentioning that I will be travelling with my girlfriend who has the same degree and also no teaching experience.

Is it an advantage to travel as a couple in terms of a school taking on 2 staff and having to provide one accomodation? Is that relevant at all?

It can be a plus or a negative. You want public school and be close to each other then it could be a negative. You could get placed in the same general area but it's not easy to get placed in the same school (most only have one foreign teacher)

Most schools will already have accomodation paid for, so if you come out together you may end up getting two studio apartments as they have already been paid for (my school have 8 studio apartments and one couple's apartment, so we took the couple's apartment)

You guys know your stuff so what do you think our best options are? Should we head to korea and see what we can get over there? We have no money though so that may not be an option.

Is it viable that the two of us could get the same hours in perhaps the same school or at least the same hours in the same city, and the same accomodation?

And is it viable to get a position with relatively few hours, under 30 for example. I think as a couple we could afford to do this as sharing costs would keep our expenditure lower. (food wise mostly)

I came out here with my g.f and we work the same hours (21 hours a week), live in a big apartment, 7-8 minute walk to school. We both work in the same school too.

Most schools pay per month not per class. You would be on a salary based on the number of hours you agreed to do. Public school will have you in the school for about 40 hours a week though you get overtime for teaching more than 21-22hours teaching.

Hagwons (private schools) will usually offer less face time in school than the public schools but they will also offer less holiday time than the public school.

You will also start off on a lower wage with the public school job as you don't have a TEFL, you don't have experience etc, so you will start off on the lowest pay sector (work rural, overtime or at more than one location then you will receive more money per month).

I think the starting salary for a public school worker is about 1.8/1.9 million won per month. Whereas most private schools will be offering 2.1-2.2million per month.

Cole · 04-10-2010 6:39pm

monosharp wrote: »

I've lived here for years and worked for WSI. I know what I'm talking about.

That's why I have been posting here, to get advice from those of you living and working there.

monosharp wrote: »

Your understanding is wrong.

I wasn't trying to get into a "I'm right and you're wrong" debate. I'm completely new to this. If a company (Pagoda) has a FAQ on rent/how the employee pays it and WSI refers to housing assistance, it is perhaps understandable that I would interpret that in the way that I did.

cloneslad wrote: »

In short, the more key money you pay, the less rent you will pay.

cloneslad wrote: »

The majority of schools will not give that type of money for key money. You will be very lucky if most can give you any more than 10-15 million especially if you are on a 1 year contract,

cloneslad wrote: »

If you pay the a hell of a lot of key money you won't pay rent.

livinginkorea wrote: »

I have been very lucky that I have never paid rent in Korea. I have always had the chun-sae (key money Koreans often call it). Most people try to pay the full amount because if they can't then they have to get a loan or pay some rent (if the landlord allows it). As a general rule, the price of the chun-sae is not a million miles away from the actual price of the house (around 130 million to buy for 100 million key money in our case).

In addition, make sure that when you do put down chun-sae on an apartment or house that you go to the local government office (can't remember if it's the dong or gu one) and get the housing contract stamped. That is your guarantee (backed by the state) that if the landlord goes bust that you will still get your money back (probably when the bank claims the house). I had heard of some people losing their entire key money when the owner went bust because of one small stamp.

Thanks cloneslad and livinginkorea, I understand the system now.

monosharp · 05-10-2010 10:23am

NoQuarter wrote: »

Is it an advantage to travel as a couple in terms of a school taking on 2 staff and having to provide one accomodation? Is that relevant at all?

It's certainly relevant as many schools offer jobs specifically for couples. If you wanna go that route.

But here's my advice.

One of you go get a job first. Then the other one gets a job and says "No thanks" to the free accommodation. "I'd like rent allowance instead".

So you both live in the free accommodation provided by one school and get the rent allowance added to your wages from the other. You'll end up getting more dosh.

You guys know your stuff so what do you think our best options are? Should we head to korea and see what we can get over there? We have no money though so that may not be an option.

I am here but I'm on a special visa so I don't know what the rules are now regarding the Visa. If you can come here first then by all means do it. But I thought you had to do an interview in the local Korean embassy before coming.

Again, I don't know because I haven't had to get an E2 visa for years.

If you can come here first and look for a job definitely do it. You'll have a much better chance of getting good positions and you can check them out before you commit. Or another option is one of you gets a job and comes first. The other comes and stays with them and looks for a job and gets the rent allowance instead of free housing.

Is it viable that the two of us could get the same hours in perhaps the same school or at least the same hours in the same city, and the same accomodation?

Same hours in same school: Yes but why would you want to ?
Same accommodation: See above.

And is it viable to get a position with relatively few hours, under 30 for example. I think as a couple we could afford to do this as sharing costs would keep our expenditure lower. (food wise mostly)

Look for after school programs or public school jobs.

monosharp · 05-10-2010 10:28am

cloneslad wrote: »

I agree with the degree getting you into a small uni, but a lot of small unis offer very little more than a good hagwon/public school job.

Absolutely not. The vast majority offer much better conditions than any hagwon and than most public schools.

Just for the time off alone they are miles ahead of hagwons.

If I was going to go for a uni gig I would prefer to have one with 12 hours a week, 4 months hols etc etc etc rather than a small one with pretty similar hours to a public school.

The average I've seen for small Uni's (not in the top 200) is 15 hours a week and they all provide 4 months holidays.

Are you sure it's a University and not a community college type place ?

Yeah, I used the word apparently. I haven't noticed anything different. In fact I have noticed more and more schools opening around me so I would assume there should be more jobs, but people keep coming on here and daves esl complaining about how difficult it is to get hired.

Do they ever do anything besides complaining on daves esl ?

The amount of complete tossers on that site has forever changed my opinion of Northern Americans. Muppets who have lived here 5+ years and constantly complain about the place and talk about how much better the US/Canada is. Yet they stay here and work here and do nothing but complain. Then you have the even bigger eejits who have lived here for years and can't speak a word of the lingo nor have ever tried the local food. I honestly met a guy who has lived here for 8 years and has never eaten any korean food.

Choccie Lover · 05-10-2010 12:22pm

Thanks for the feedback about Sokcho Clones Lad.

How about Cheongju, Ochang? Does anyone have anything
to say about there? There isn't all that much about it online
apart from the bare facts. I wonder is there much of a foreign
community there.

cassi · 05-10-2010 12:48pm

monosharp wrote: »

Again, I don't know because I haven't had to get an E2 visa for years.

If you can come here first and look for a job definitely do it. You'll have a much better chance of getting good positions and you can check them out before you commit. Or another option is one of you gets a job and comes first. The other comes and stays with them and looks for a job and gets the rent allowance instead of free housing. .

You can't do this if you have never worked in Korea before. A first timer needs to do an interview with the embassy in their home country before they are given a visa.

Absolutely not. The vast majority offer much better conditions than any hagwon and than most public schools.

Just for the time off alone they are miles ahead of hagwons.

I have also hear from people that many of the smaller unis or branches of unis aren't offering much better than hagwons. for example wildly increasing teaching hours and cutting vacation time.

cloneslad · 05-10-2010 2:24pm

Absolutely not. The vast majority offer much better conditions than any hagwon and than most public schools.

Just for the time off alone they are miles ahead of hagwons.

The average I've seen for small Uni's (not in the top 200) is 15 hours a week and they all provide 4 months holidays.

Are you sure it's a University and not a community college type place ?

They call it a university. It's not very large but it is very reknowned for training engineers and they are currently helping the Russians and saudis implement their courses as the one they run is being used as 'best practice' for the industry.

I have only seen one of the campuses and it wasn't large but they call it a uni so I wouldn't disagree with them.

Do they ever do anything besides complaining on daves esl ?

The amount of complete tossers on that site has forever changed my opinion of Northern Americans. Muppets who have lived here 5+ years and constantly complain about the place and talk about how much better the US/Canada is. Yet they stay here and work here and do nothing but complain. Then you have the even bigger eejits who have lived here for years and can't speak a word of the lingo nor have ever tried the local food. I honestly met a guy who has lived here for 8 years and has never eaten any korean food.

It's worth going on it for the bewilderment it leaves you in after reading what they have to say about the place and how idiotic they can be.

I love Korea, I wouldn't like to spend the rest of my life here though. I wouldn't like my kids to have to study 25 hours a day and I would never be treated as one of them, no matter how long I lived here and how much Korean I could speak.

But I thought you had to do an interview in the local Korean embassy before coming.

This is correct, first timers must do an interview at home. It's not worth it for a first timer to go out and get a job in korea out of their own pocket. (there is a chance you may be able to sneak an interview in Japan but it's an expensive risk to take)

cloneslad · 05-10-2010 2:28pm

Choccie Lover wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback about Sokcho Clones Lad.

How about Cheongju, Ochang? Does anyone have anything
to say about there? There isn't all that much about it online
apart from the bare facts. I wonder is there much of a foreign
community there.

Don't know much about cheongju.

Don't know if you have seen this site:

http://english.cjcity.net/index.asp

LimerickJoe · 05-10-2010 7:05pm

Hello guy's,

I had an interview today for Andover school in Daegu teaching 4 - 11 year olds. Class size 3 -10 . The guy who interviewed me was a 23 year old lad from Wicklow who has been teaching at the school for the last 10 months. He seemed very genuine. He told me all about life in Daegu and life at the school. He said the day's can be quite long and at certain periods of the year you can teach up to 8 x 40 minute classes a day. But mostly 6 -7 classes a day he says. The contract says 110 hours teaching hours a month but you have to be at the school for whatever hours your roistered for each week. He says it varies. sometimes 10 am - 7.40pm or sometimes 11.30 am - 6ish . He reckons the boss is sound and they give you a good orientation and plenty of help. He said the year has been a really good one all round. he said the accommodation was fine and that all the teachers live close together in the same apartment block. He said they always pay on time. He did say however that some teachers couldn't handle the long day's of teaching even though the work is not hard, he said the day's can be quite long. So a few teachers haven't lasted their contract at this school in the past ( is that worrying or normal?).

I felt really good about the job after talking to him for more than an hour. Told me all the travelling and activities he does over there and a good pub/club scene. There is an American girl and an English girl working there is well at the moment. I decided to agree to take the job.

My main concern are the long day's cause he said the first couple of months were very tiring to get used to the lifestyle working with the kids etc. He used to be exhausted alot.

I wasn't put off by this too much because he was telling me all about the work environment and it sounded more than fine to me. He said the boss was very friendly and approachable.

Sorry for such a long post but I researched the school , typed into google "Andover school Daegu" and I am after reading some awful reviews which are very difficult to ignore. Please read.

http://www.esllist.com/korea-south/742-language-school-hagwon/72-andover-language-school

I don't know what I should do now. I am really anxious to get over to Korea and start working. I have no problem working with children either.
Would I be crazy to take this job because of what a couple of reviews from angry ex teachers have said. Or should I trust that the Irish guy teaching there would have surely told me if thing's were bad as he has been there 10 months and the 2 girls have been there for similar lengths of time. Maybe they have found out about their bad reputation and improved cause he had no issues except being honest with me about long working hours at times. He said the boss want's me to tell people I'm interviewing that day's can be long so that they don't feel upset or cheated when they arrive over.
He said that the boss has told him he is cutting down on the amount of classes foreign teachers have to teach now because he wants the teachers to be happy and stay with the school. His contract was 120 hours teaching a month . mine is 110.

After all my rambling what do people think? I need to make a decision soon .
Thanks a million

Joe

Cole · 05-10-2010 7:20pm

I've noticed that most schools/recruiters request a resume, as opposed to a CV. I realise that there is a distinction, but is the more lengthy format of a CV acceptable or do they specifically want the American type resume?

SpatialPlanning · 05-10-2010 7:22pm

Anyone know what the story is with these new Busan Public School evaluations?

On a side note - dislocated my elbow the other day...:mad: I can either go to SK with a big cast on my arm or wait 2 extra weeks until I can get it off. I'm guessing it would give a bad first impression to turn up on my first day with it on? The recruiter said to get over as soon as possible but I can take some extra time if absolutely necessary.

My timing has always been this impeccable!

SpatialPlanning · 05-10-2010 7:27pm

Cole wrote: »

I've noticed that most schools/recruiters request a resume, as opposed to a CV. I realise that there is a distinction, but is the more lengthy format of a CV acceptable or do they specifically want the American type resume?

I'd go for a resume if I was you. Of the 20+ recruiters to have contacted me only 1 or 2 had actually read my CV. Keep it brief and succinct - 1 page if you can. Personal details, teaching experience and qualifications only. It will only be skimmed over...

SpatialPlanning · 05-10-2010 7:51pm

LimerickJoe wrote: »

Sorry for such a long post but I researched the school , typed into google "Andover school Daegu" and I am after reading some awful reviews which are very difficult to ignore. Please read.

http://www.esllist.com/korea-south/742-language-school-hagwon/72-andover-language-school

After all my rambling what do people think? I need to make a decision soon .
Thanks a million

Joe

"Andover Language School is a small chain of hagwons in Daegu, with three branches. It's run by two corrupt old drunks:eek: called Mr Park and Mr Kim, and together they shower hell down:eek::eek: upon their suicidal employees:eek::eek::eek:.
The kids here learn nothing, and are occassionally beaten by Parky and the Kimster:eek:. The foreign teachers are treated worse. As with everywhere else in Korea, they are treated as lepers - diseased freaks to be shunned, shouted at and sodomized:eek::eek: (Oh, wait, no... The last one's not true. Who'd say a thing like that?)
I've worked for four different schools in Korea, and Andover is by far the worst. Additionally, I've known hundreds of other ESL teachers whose experiences cannot compete with the spirit breaking/raping/crushing of Andover Language School."

Well, that's a review and a half! No doubt written by a regular Dave's user.. I'd ring the Irish lad again (or email him) and see what he says. He may have been in the presence the owner during the interview.

According to the review the writer still finished his/her contract which is strange for a school like this:

Did Not pay on time, Did Not have sufficient supplies / Inadequate teaching materials, Was poorly managed / organized, Did Not treat their employees appropriately, Provided inadequate housing, Total dicks, penny-pinchers, racists, morons, swinish rogues and vagabond

If you take this job then expect long days. Aside from that I'm sure cloneslad or livinginkorea will be able to help you, but I'd take the word of the Irish guy (that you have actually spoken to) ahead of an anonymous and bitter Dave's user (who hates working anywhere in Korea according to his post).

Cole · 05-10-2010 8:29pm

SpatialPlanning wrote: »

I'd go for a resume if I was you. Of the 20+ recruiters to have contacted me only 1 or 2 had actually read my CV. Keep it brief and succinct - 1 page if you can. Personal details, teaching experience and qualifications only. It will only be skimmed over...

Thanks, I'm a novice teacher so I was hoping that some of my employment history might give me an edge on other novice applicants. Is a non teaching employment history of any real interest to them?

Regarding your injury, I had a particularly violent elbow dislocation some years ago...not pleasant. I feel your pain!

SpatialPlanning · 05-10-2010 9:33pm

Cole wrote: »

Thanks, I'm a novice teacher so I was hoping that some of my employment history might give me an edge on other novice applicants. Is a non teaching employment history of any real interest to them?

Regarding your injury, I had a particularly violent elbow dislocation some years ago...not pleasant. I feel your pain!

I wouldn't include it to be honest. Try to keep it relevant to teaching/working with children. Anything like; teaching, grinds, summer camps, coaching kids etc. is fine. Aside from that, from what I understand, they aren't really interested in anything else.

Cheers for the sympathy! Mine was a fairly simple dislocation, it's more the ligament damage that I'm worried about..

monosharp · 06-10-2010 2:53am

cassi wrote: »

You can't do this if you have never worked in Korea before. A first timer needs to do an interview with the embassy in their home country before they are given a visa.

I heard that came in but I also heard it changed again ?

I have also hear from people that many of the smaller unis or branches of unis aren't offering much better than hagwons. for example wildly increasing teaching hours and cutting vacation time.

Working for a branch of a Uni is not working for the Uni. Usually it's a private company paying the Uni for the privilege of using it's name etc.

Again, I've never seen any Uni, small or otherwise, have bad conditions.

I can almost guarantee you what you are talking about are community colleges. 전문대 not 대학교. Some 전문대's even use the 대학교 in their name but it doesn't make them a University.

monosharp · 06-10-2010 2:58am

cloneslad wrote: »

They call it a university.

In English and/or in Korean ?

It's not very large but it is very reknowned for training engineers and they are currently helping the Russians and saudis implement their courses as the one they run is being used as 'best practice' for the industry.

And the people work for the Uni teaching English and have bad conditions ? Again, working for a branch or a private company utilising the Uni's name is not working for the Uni.

I have only seen one of the campuses and it wasn't large but they call it a uni so I wouldn't disagree with them.

In English and/or in Korean ?

This is correct, first timers must do an interview at home. It's not worth it for a first timer to go out and get a job in korea out of their own pocket. (there is a chance you may be able to sneak an interview in Japan but it's an expensive risk to take)

Thanks. Didn't know that. When I came here there was none of these medical checks, interviews etc.

monosharp · 06-10-2010 3:05am

Cole wrote: »

I've noticed that most schools/recruiters request a resume, as opposed to a CV. I realise that there is a distinction, but is the more lengthy format of a CV acceptable or do they specifically want the American type resume?

I cannot recommend highly enough to include a photo on your resume.

The 6th reply here http://www.koreabusinesscentral.com/forum/topics/korean-resume-templateformat

Has a sort-of Korean style resume you can download and look at.

Korean resumes are extremely different to what we are used to. Koreans have to answer questions about everything from their religion to their blood type to their parents assets to womens sizes in their interviews so many include a lot of information we would consider personal on their resumes.

But since your a foreigner just stick in a photo and your age and you should be grand.

cloneslad · 06-10-2010 4:06am

In English and/or in Korean ?

And the people work for the Uni teaching English and have bad conditions ? Again, working for a branch or a private company utilising the Uni's name is not working for the Uni.

it's 대학교, written in both Korean and English. I studied Korean there for a while.

No, the working conditions aren't bad, in fact the guy teachin us korean was the boss of the teachers working there and he was one of the nicest men I have ever had the pleasure to meet in Korea.

The local area actually worked with the University to provide free Korean lessons to the foreginers in the area too.

The working conditions (pay, housing etc) are all good. They also get 3 day weekends which is great. It's the split shifts, money and holidays that aren't much better than a good hagwon or public school.

Thanks. Didn't know that. When I came here there was none of these medical checks, interviews etc.

yeah, when I came it was just get your transcripts stamped as well as a copy of your degree and you were golden.

They've done away with the need for transcripts to obtain the visa now, but schools are still requesting them anyway.

livinginkorea · 06-10-2010 4:08am

LimerickJoe wrote: »

Hello guy's,

I had an interview today for Andover school in Daegu teaching 4 - 11 year olds. Class size 3 -10 . The guy who interviewed me was a 23 year old lad from Wicklow who has been teaching at the school for the last 10 months. He seemed very genuine. He told me all about life in Daegu and life at the school. He said the day's can be quite long and at certain periods of the year you can teach up to 8 x 40 minute classes a day. But mostly 6 -7 classes a day he says. The contract says 110 hours teaching hours a month but you have to be at the school for whatever hours your roistered for each week. He says it varies. sometimes 10 am - 7.40pm or sometimes 11.30 am - 6ish . He reckons the boss is sound and they give you a good orientation and plenty of help. He said the year has been a really good one all round. he said the accommodation was fine and that all the teachers live close together in the same apartment block. He said they always pay on time. He did say however that some teachers couldn't handle the long day's of teaching even though the work is not hard, he said the day's can be quite long. So a few teachers haven't lasted their contract at this school in the past ( is that worrying or normal?).

I felt really good about the job after talking to him for more than an hour. Told me all the travelling and activities he does over there and a good pub/club scene. There is an American girl and an English girl working there is well at the moment. I decided to agree to take the job.

My main concern are the long day's cause he said the first couple of months were very tiring to get used to the lifestyle working with the kids etc. He used to be exhausted alot.

I wasn't put off by this too much because he was telling me all about the work environment and it sounded more than fine to me. He said the boss was very friendly and approachable.

Sorry for such a long post but I researched the school , typed into google "Andover school Daegu" and I am after reading some awful reviews which are very difficult to ignore. Please read.

http://www.esllist.com/korea-south/742-language-school-hagwon/72-andover-language-school

I don't know what I should do now. I am really anxious to get over to Korea and start working. I have no problem working with children either.
Would I be crazy to take this job because of what a couple of reviews from angry ex teachers have said. Or should I trust that the Irish guy teaching there would have surely told me if thing's were bad as he has been there 10 months and the 2 girls have been there for similar lengths of time. Maybe they have found out about their bad reputation and improved cause he had no issues except being honest with me about long working hours at times. He said the boss want's me to tell people I'm interviewing that day's can be long so that they don't feel upset or cheated when they arrive over.
He said that the boss has told him he is cutting down on the amount of classes foreign teachers have to teach now because he wants the teachers to be happy and stay with the school. His contract was 120 hours teaching a month . mine is 110.

After all my rambling what do people think? I need to make a decision soon .
Thanks a million

Joe

Hello Joe, no response about the other school? Guess that one is finished.

About this job it is great that you were able to talk to a current teacher - certainly helps your decision making a lot right? The chap seems honest enough and I think you would have got a bad vibe if he had told you some negative or hidden comments. Who will you be teaching? If the schedule is from 10 am then it could be kindergarten but possibly that schedule is only for the holiday time (start early, finish early in the case of most hagwons during the vacation season). Kids can certainly be tiring but once you keep that in mind and use their energy then classes can really fly by. If the boss supports you then you will be fine once you get into a groove. I suggest preparing yourself physically for teaching and standing for hours on end. Start taking care of your health for starters. It's amazing how many people don't and then get run down easily after a couple of weeks. Did you ask the lad why he was leaving?

The negative comments were made a while back, serious a lot can happen to a school in a year or two. The school could have changed owners, got a new manager, teachers could have been lazy or homesick, etc. Very possibly the writer did a runner. To be honest, I would take what was said with a grain of salt. If it was really that bad than I think the Irish chap would have mentioned something (indeed most people would have said something). In a lot of cases on the net, things get blown out of proportion. I'm sure there were some problems, like any job but you have to find that out for yourself.

At least the hours have gone from 120 to 110. Can I ask about the pay? Seems like the boss cares about the staff, that's why I recon the owner could be different than before after reading those 'reviews.'

livinginkorea · 06-10-2010 4:15am

monosharp wrote: »

I cannot recommend highly enough to include a photo on your resume.

The 6th reply here http://www.koreabusinesscentral.com/forum/topics/korean-resume-templateformat

Has a sort-of Korean style resume you can download and look at.

Korean resumes are extremely different to what we are used to. Koreans have to answer questions about everything from their religion to their blood type to their parents assets to womens sizes in their interviews so many include a lot of information we would consider personal on their resumes.

But since your a foreigner just stick in a photo and your age and you should be grand.

A photo is really useful. Make sure you are smiling in it if you are going to teach kids!

Generally, recruiters barely read your CV/Resume so keep it short and too the point. Also add 'References available upon request' - while nobody asked me for them when I was teaching hagwons/public schools they are still useful to have available but not needed to be physically placed on the resume.

livinginkorea · 06-10-2010 4:17am

SpatialPlanning wrote: »

I wouldn't include it to be honest. Try to keep it relevant to teaching/working with children. Anything like; teaching, grinds, summer camps, coaching kids etc. is fine. Aside from that, from what I understand, they aren't really interested in anything else.

Cheers for the sympathy! Mine was a fairly simple dislocation, it's more the ligament damage that I'm worried about..

If you have a cast then get the kids to sign it - they'll love it! I agree with the recruiter - get over here anyway.

cloneslad · 06-10-2010 4:27am

LimerickJoe wrote: »

Hello guy's,
AVALON SCHOOL

Joe

your post was too long to quote

I would take what is posted up on a website by an anonymous, whiney, most likely American with a very big pinch of salt. They expect the oss to follow a contract to the letter.

Most of the people crying about small things are not flexible in the approach to work. They read on daves esl that you should stick to the contract and that's all they do, then they b*tch about any changes that are made.

We had an American couple in our school who refused to let a new teacher stay in their spare apartment for 1 night because their contract stated they get an apartment each. This was after they got the school to buy them an oven, take them for free dinners, pay for any problem with their apartments and book flights, hotels etc.....even though it's not in the contract!!

What makes it worse is when you see this:

They had no foresight and over worked some employees while other teachers did less and were compensated with the same amount of money.

The contract they signed prob said sonething like you work 8 * 40 classes for x amount of money. Yet they were crying that other people were working less classes than them (prob 6-7 a day) for the same amount of money. Well they can't have it both ways. They agreed to this contract and what it said at the start so they need to stop complaining about it.

You know the ins and outs of the school. The Irish guy has told you that you will be tired from the hours. It is a long time to be spending in the school but you aren't actually teaching a great number of classes. 8*40minute classes is not a lot. (it is in terms of esl teaching but try working in a factory while covered in blood and 8 classes a day will seem like heaven)

It seems like your classes will be well spread out throughout the day. Teaching kindi classes in the morning (prob 3-4) then you will get a break of an hour / hour and a half. After the break you would probably be teaching elementary school students for another 4 or so classes.

I teach 7 40 minute classes on a mon/wed/fri and I don't find it difficult at all. I like my situation though as I finsih a class, have 5 mins break and then go straight to my next class. Waiting around is a pain in the a$$ for me, but others like having a break in the middle of their teaching day.

Personally I would not like to be in the school from 10:30 until 7:30 because I like to enjoy my mornings off but if you feel you can handle it then do it. I would totally disregard the comments on that website.

I think you just have to answer these questions for yourself.

Do you want to teach?
Do you think you can handle the shift?
Do you like the idea of working in daegu?
Do you think you will get a better offer soon?
can you be bothered waiting to get a better offer?

If the answers are not all pointing towards teaching in that school, then wait for a couple more weeks, perhaps tell them you need a few days to think about it and see what other offers you get.

You will get more offers and if you google the school, some person is bound to have written bad things about it, or a sister branch. If you aren't 100% of the long days then I would suggest waiting.

monosharp · 06-10-2010 4:45am

cloneslad wrote: »

No, the working conditions aren't bad, in fact the guy teachin us korean was the boss of the teachers working there and he was one of the nicest men I have ever had the pleasure to meet in Korea.

I thought that's why we were discussing this ? That you said the working conditions were bad ? Or was that someone else ?

The local area actually worked with the University to provide free Korean lessons to the foreginers in the area too.

That happens almost everywhere. Whatever enclave you end up in, if it's a city your never more than a 15 minute journey from free Korean lessons.

Every time I move house and re-register myself there I get a letter from the local authorities offering free classes.

The working conditions (pay, housing etc) are all good. They also get 3 day weekends which is great. It's the split shifts, money and holidays that aren't much better than a good hagwon or public school.

Who are they teaching ? Students in the University who are taking the classes as part of their major's or students who are only registered for English classes.

If your working as an English lecturer in a University you should only be teaching students studying a major in that University. i.e. A degree in English, European Culture, whatever.

Teaching students who are not undertaking a degree is separate and should not be confused with University 'outsourcing' type stuff. Someone working in the University teaching University students is what I mean when I say working for a University.

Someone working in a University teaching English to students who are only there to study English, i.e. It doesn't lead to a degree, is not the same thing. I think I know what your talking about now, glorified hagwons living off the names of Universities.

cloneslad · 06-10-2010 5:07am

I thought that's why we were discussing this ? That you said the working conditions were bad ? Or was that someone else ?

I said,

I agree with the degree getting you into a small uni, but a lot of small unis offer very little more than a good hagwon/public school job.

I love my hagwon, It's why I came back to it. The hours are great, as are the other teachers, the area I'm in and my boss. If I could only get longer paid holidays then my life would be golden.

Who are they teaching ? Students in the University who are taking the classes as part of their major's or students who are only registered for English classes.

If your working as an English lecturer in a University you should only be teaching students studying a major in that University. i.e. A degree in English, European Culture, whatever.

Teaching students who are not undertaking a degree is separate and should not be confused with University 'outsourcing' type stuff. Someone working in the University teaching University students is what I mean when I say working for a University.

Someone working in a University teaching English to students who are only there to study English, i.e. It doesn't lead to a degree, is not the same thing. I think I know what your talking about now, glorified hagwons living off the names of Universities

They teach english to the Korean students training up to become engineers. There are two massive shipyards next to us so there is a great need to get your degree or further qualifications to get higher up the ladder.

It's not a hagwon / uniwon. The uni is supported / sustained pretty much through their engineers but because of this they also have to offer English classes to the koreans as part of their degree and there are open English classes for family members of the people working in the shipyards too.

It's not like one of the big universities in Seoul, busan, daegu etc but it's what I meant by smaller universities (i.e one that calls themselves a uni, whereas we would argue over whether is should be one or not)

cassi · 06-10-2010 5:39am

monosharp wrote: »

I heard that came in but I also heard it changed again ?

Working for a branch of a Uni is not working for the Uni. Usually it's a private company paying the Uni for the privilege of using it's name etc.

Again, I've never seen any Uni, small or otherwise, have bad conditions.

I can almost guarantee you what you are talking about are community colleges. 전문대 not 대학교. Some 전문대's even use the 대학교 in their name but it doesn't make them a University.

Nope you still have to do an interview, it didn't change.

I'm/ their not talking about uniwons or community colleges, actual 대학교. When I say branch I meant a campus of a university located away from the main campus. I heard this from people all over the country. Which is sad because at least there was a time when you could be guaranteed a good uni job. Things are changing!

I'm not saying its the majority of universities this is happening in but it is happening.

monosharp · 06-10-2010 6:36am

cloneslad wrote: »

I love my hagwon, It's why I came back to it. The hours are great, as are the other teachers, the area I'm in and my boss. If I could only get longer paid holidays then my life would be golden.

Sounds good. It's always nice to hear someone who is enjoying their time here and not the usual daves cafe moaners.

Although I'd seriously recommend going for a (good) Uni position. The benefits are huge and it's a big change from teaching children.

I think I mentioned before that several of my friends are doing this and those that bother looking for other work as well are making quite a lot of money. It's quite easy to have a Uni or even certain after-school public school job positions and other jobs on the side. One of my friends is raking in about 6 million a month and he's still only putting in about 40 hours a week total.

Tefl in South Korea

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