Tefl in South Korea

virmilitaris

Deleted User wrote: »

More people should consider Vietnam... No way I could deal with the stress of trying to sort out Korea.

Land in Hanoi on a tourist Visa. Start working for pretty much the same money as Korea the next week.. Everyone I've met who's worked in both places regretting going near Korean students.

Same money? Unless its dramatically changed in the last couple of years then it's nowhere near the same money. Not even in the same league. Unless you are talking about international schools.

Plus I don't see what's so wrong with korean students compared to Vietnamese. I haven't taught in vietnam but I know many Vietnamese students, I study with some. Why are they better than koreans?

Crania

I've just finished my penultimate year of university and I'm considering teaching English abroad, probably in South Korea, after I finish my degree, i.e. summer of 2012.

I have a number of questions which I hope are not just repeating things that other people have already asked. Firstly, when should I apply for jobs If I'd like to start in September 2012? Could I apply in the summer of 2012 or should I apply much earlier? Is it possible to get jobs on a rolling basis, i.e. midway through the academic year such as December/January? Secondly, what websites should I look at for jobs? Would I earn more money in public or private schools? Is it better to get a job in a public school even if it's less pay? I'd like to get a job that pays for return flights and accommodation, as I've heard some schools/companies do. Is this the norm or the exception?

Also, I was considering doing a CELTA course. I've heard that you don't necessarily need this course to teach English in South Korea but that it increases your pay. I'm primarily interested in doing the course because it would allow me to teach English in Ireland/UK in the future which may be useful. However, the main problem is the cost, I was looking at the CELTA course in International House Dublin and the cost is a whopping €1450. Is it worth my while to spend this much money? If so, when would be the best time to do the course? This summer or wait until next summer? Obviously I cannot do it during the academic year due to the fact that I'll still be in university. My problem with waiting until next summer to do the course would be that I'd be too late applying for jobs after the course is done, i.e. I'd be doing the course around June 2012 and then hoping to get a job in South Korea in September 2012. Or alternatively, should I do the cheaper CELT course? Or even the cheaper and shorter again TEFL course? What's the main advantage of doing CELTA over CELT?

Generally, do people like it in South Korea? Are the working conditions good? I have heard the hours can be long. Roughly, what is the pay like? Obviously I'd like to save money for travelling or perhaps a Masters therefore with the average pay is it possible to save money or does the pay just about cover living costs?

I know I've asked a lot of questions, some of which may have already been answered in this tread, but I'd really appreciate some responses.

virmilitaris

Crania wrote: »

I have a number of questions which I hope are not just repeating things that other people have already asked. Firstly, when should I apply for jobs If I'd like to start in September 2012? Could I apply in the summer of 2012 or should I apply much earlier? Is it possible to get jobs on a rolling basis, i.e. midway through the academic year such as December/January?

For children's private schools and adult private schools you can apply anytime. For public schools there are also jobs year round but most jobs are available before the start of the semesters. January and August approx.

Secondly, what websites should I look at for jobs?

www.worknplay.co.kr
http://englishspectrum.net/korea-teaching-job
http://www.eslkorea.net/
http://hiteacher.com/

Would I earn more money in public or private schools?

Private.

Is it better to get a job in a public school even if it's less pay?

Public (Children): Less hours (working) than private, more holidays, teaching assistant (usually), stable, usually less pay, more difficult to get, big classroom sizes.
Private (Children): More hours (working) than public, less holidays, might not be stable, usually pay more, easy to get, job is easier than public imo (less kids)
Private (Adults): Medium hours (more is better as you usually get paid by the hour), more holidays than kids, stable, pay is good, more difficult to get, job is ridiculously easy.

I'd like to get a job that pays for return flights and accommodation, as I've heard some schools/companies do. Is this the norm or the exception?

Almost all pay for flights. All pay for accommodation or give you the choice or them paying for it.

Also, I was considering doing a CELTA course. I've heard that you don't necessarily need this course to teach English in South Korea but that it increases your pay.

Increases your pay (not enough to warrant it imo) if you work public or a big private school with many branches. A one school operation couldn't care less what qualifications you have.

Generally, do people like it in South Korea?

Do you like Ireland ? Some people like it, some don't. Some hate the food, some love it. Some have a great time, some have a **** time. Some stay for years, some run out on their contract after a few months.

I like it and I've been here for years.

Are the working conditions good?

Different school different conditions. I've worked for **** conditions and I've worked for great conditions.

I have heard the hours can be long.

7-8 hrs a day is about average in the school, not all teaching.

Roughly, what is the pay like?

Depends on the location. Don't work for less than 2 million won starting out would be good advice. But personally I would advise you to push for 2.1 million won minimum if you are in one of the big cities.

2 100 000 South Korean won = 1 368.04918 Euros

Obviously I'd like to save money for travelling or perhaps a Masters therefore with the average pay is it possible to save money or does the pay just about cover living costs?

I know people who have saved more than half their salary every month and still lived comfortably and I know people who drank / ate their salary every month.

Food can be very cheap or very expensive depending on what you eat. The local grub is usually very very cheap. Foreign stuff is very expensive.

Crania

Very much appreciated virmilitaris.

hyperbaby

Finally tomorrow I will have all my documents sorted out.

What courier service did ye guys use to send your documents?
I got quoted 70 euro for my documents today, pricey much?

virmilitaris

virmilitaris wrote: »

Same money? Unless its dramatically changed in the last couple of years then it's nowhere near the same money. Not even in the same league. Unless you are talking about international schools.

Plus I don't see what's so wrong with korean students compared to Vietnamese. I haven't taught in vietnam but I know many Vietnamese students, I study with some. Why are they better than koreans?

It must have dramatically changed.. For working 25 hours a week here, you get at least $1800 / $1900 a month with no experience and then extra part-time work for $25 an hour. I know some people getting $35 an hour. And not international schools or anything.
Nice room would be $250 and say $20 a day on food and drink which is more that I'd ever spend and I eat out every day and drink alot. Beer is a dollar a bottle or 25cents on the street and a meal costs about $2 / $3. Fags are 75cent a pack aswell.
You'll easily save $1200 / $1400 a month while living the life. That can't be much worse than Korea?

As for Korean students, I did some one on one with them in the Philippines.. Found it difficult. And as far as what I've heard from everyone else who's done both, they reckon Koreans are the most demanding students going.

Also, Vietnam uses the Roman Alphabet for their language which makes everything an awful lot easier I presume.. And again, the location is in S.E Asia which is just easier. And I just flew back here, pissed around for a while and started working within a few weeks. No hassle.


I'm certainly not saying Korea is bad, I'm just saying that more people should look into Vietnam.. It's almost like a secret that Hanoi is the highest paying place in S.E Asia while being dirt cheap.

virmilitaris

Deleted User wrote: »

It must have dramatically changed.. For working 25 hours a week here, you get at least $1800 / $1900 a month with no experience and then extra part-time work for $25 an hour. I know some people getting $35 an hour. And not international schools or anything.

That's definitely higher than it was before but still lower than Korea. I did a search today on esl jobs in vietnam and the results that came back showed the salary ranged from $1000 to $2000 a month. A rather large margin with no details on why.

A new teacher here in a private school should expect around 2000 - 2200 dollars a month for the average private kids gig but if you are any bit above the average (degree in something like arts, language, history etc or a tefl cert etc) you should aim for 2400 at least.

In Korea 1-on-1 (legal) private work is a minimum of $35 an hour, most are about 50 and anywhere up to $75 for one-on-ones or $150 for small groups.

Nice room would be $250 and say $20 a day on food and drink which is more that I'd ever spend and I eat out every day and drink alot.

That's the big difference though. Your accommodation is free in Korea.

You can also live for about $10 a day eating out here depending on what you eat.

You'll easily save $1200 / $1400 a month while living the life. That can't be much worse than Korea?

Saving-wise no that sounds great actually. Korea would work out about the same.

As for Korean students, I did some one on one with them in the Philippines.. Found it difficult. And as far as what I've heard from everyone else who's done both, they reckon Koreans are the most demanding students going.

Really ? demanding of what ? learning ?

Also, Vietnam uses the Roman Alphabet for their language which makes everything an awful lot easier I presume.. And again, the location is in S.E Asia which is just easier. And I just flew back here, pissed around for a while and started working within a few weeks. No hassle.

Sounds good. If I ever manage to get out of here I'll give it a go.

I'm certainly not saying Korea is bad, I'm just saying that more people should look into Vietnam.. It's almost like a secret that Hanoi is the highest paying place in S.E Asia while being dirt cheap.

Then don't tell anyone

livinginkorea

I think some Korean students are very studious...especially the ones whose's parents ship them abroad to learn English at great expense. Also, lower level Korean students are not so good at conversation or even trying it...it mostly the transmission mode of education that is expected mixed in with a lot of saving face.

Once you get used to them or get to know more about them then classes are really enjoyable. At the end of the day, all students are trying to learn something, just takes longer for some.

The most I've heard first hand from people regarding savings after a year in Korea is about $10,000.. Is that accurate or too low? That's based on maybe 10 people I've chatted to about it.

I know Korea has accommodation paid for etc. and it's all laid out on a plate for you but that's one of the things I don't like... It's absolutely great in a way but it all seems very restricted. "here's your gap year planned for you".
I mean I can just quit this school tomorrow and move to another one if I want.. Or I can fek off to the Philippines for two months, come back and pick up new work in a couple of days. No one even thinks about visas.

I would consider Korea someday if it was particularly good money but that's it.. I've heard all the comparisons between Korean and Vietnamese students and everyone is glad to be away from them. Even my friends in the Philippines who teach Koreans and Japanese love the Japanese and can't stand the Koreans.



Again, all I'm saying is that Korea isn't the only option.. It's a great option but most people at home think it's the only option in Asia. It's only ever Korea being discussed in this forum.

livinginkorea

Deleted User wrote: »

The most I've heard first hand from people regarding savings after a year in Korea is about $10,000.. Is that accurate or too low? That's based on maybe 10 people I've chatted to about it.

I know Korea has accommodation paid for etc. and it's all laid out on a plate for you but that's one of the things I don't like... It's absolutely great in a way but it all seems very restricted. "here's your gap year planned for you".
I mean I can just quit this school tomorrow and move to another one if I want.. Or I can fek off to the Philippines for two months, come back and pick up new work in a couple of days. No one even thinks about visas.

I would consider Korea someday if it was particularly good money but that's it.. I've heard all the comparisons between Korean and Vietnamese students and everyone is glad to be away from them. Even my friends in the Philippines who teach Koreans and Japanese love the Japanese and can't stand the Koreans.

Again, all I'm saying is that Korea isn't the only option.. It's a great option but most people at home think it's the only option in Asia. It's only ever Korea being discussed in this forum.

Well it's in the title

Totally agree on the rest though...I don't much about the rest of Asia. Was only ever interested in Korea and Japan to be honest. HK wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so crowded. China still has a lot to do to catch up in payment and benefits.

Many people have made their career in teaching but true, it is totally different if you have one year out and you do not want it to be planned or structured too much in advance.

I meant the forum, not just the thread :P

The last point I'll make is that you can backpack S.E Asia for a couple of months before/after teaching very easily.. And it's on the way to Australia. My holidays will be spent in the Perinthian islands of Malaysia while a few of us are going back to Laos for a look weekend to do the Gibbon experience.

Seriously people, don't just look at Korea.. You can teach anywhere.

cloneslad

Deleted User wrote: »

I meant the forum, not just the thread :P

The last point I'll make is that you can backpack S.E Asia for a couple of months before/after teaching very easily.. And it's on the way to Australia. My holidays will be spent in the Perinthian islands of Malaysia while a few of us are going back to Laos for a look weekend to do the Gibbon experience.

Seriously people, don't just look at Korea.. You can teach anywhere.

you can fly air asia from korea to K.L for just over $100 so backpacking around S.E asia is easy from korea too. granted, it's not feasible to go for a weekend trip, but you could go to japan or Beijing easily for the weekend from Korea.

As for hanoi, out of all the places to live and work in Vietnam, I'd have put Hanoi at the bottom. HCM / Saigon is much better, more things to do and has a better atmosphere. Now, in saying that, Vietnam is probably the most beautiful country I've ever been to so Hanoi did have a lot of competition and is still an okay city, but seoul, busan and daegu are much better than it.

Oh and as a small aside, I enjoy not getting pestered by touts trying to sell me stuff in Korea, you can't get away from it in Vietnam, even my friend who works in one of the best universities in Saigon, has a vietnamese g.f and has been there a good few years now find the place a struggle at times, just because he gets pestered so much. Peace and tranquility alone is enough to make me keep Vietnam for visiting and Korea for living.

I'm aware of all that.. I'm just giving reasons for people to check Vietnam aswell.
I've spent a month in Saigon and preferred it up here. It's a love/hate thing. And once you know any Vietnamese, them guys never pester you so it's fine.. There's alot more to Hanoi than the Old Quarter.

dapto1

Can anyone recommend a good book for learning Korean or a phrase book?

nameproblem

Hi guys, great thread, I know the answer to these questions are probably in the thread, but I don't have time to go through the 98 pages to find them all. would really appreciate if ye could help me here with a few things.

What documents need to be Appostilled? The Degree photocopy, Criminal back ground check, anything else? These all have to get a Notary too yeah?

Does the photocopy of the passport need this too?

Do I need two sealed copies of my degree transcripts? I have one already, but read somewhere that the school and the embassy want a copy, is this true?

Where do I get the health check, here beforehand, or over in South Korea?

Oh and has anyone ever worked for GnB schools? we have had an interview with one in Ulsan and so far it looks good...

Thanks

Who stamps the back of the passport photos?

Cool Running

hyperbaby wrote: »

Finally tomorrow I will have all my documents sorted out.

What courier service did ye guys use to send your documents?
I got quoted 70 euro for my documents today, pricey much?

I used Fed Ex to send over my documents. I sent them from the office near Santry. DHL is the other option for sending docs over.

Ya mine was around 70 euro, sounds expensive but its guranteed to arrive in around 4 days. Your also given a tracking number which the school/recruiter will like to know so they can check the status of the docs.

gluck

cloneslad

Deleted User wrote: »

The most I've heard first hand from people regarding savings after a year in Korea is about $10,000.. Is that accurate or too low? That's based on maybe 10 people I've chatted to about it.

for my previous 12 month contract I saved more than double that. I also got flights from Korea to Malaysia, Malaysia to Thailand, Vietnam to Thailand, Thailand to India, and finally India to Ireland paid for me on top of that...as well as my initial dublin to Korea flight.

Most of my friends saved at least $14,000. Korea is quite easy to save money in, it is also quite easy to spend money in, depends on how much you want to drink guinness instead of local beer or no beer at all. Western things will cost much more than at home, but if you're in Korea, experience it.

cloneslad

nameproblem wrote: »

Hi guys, great thread, I know the answer to these questions are probably in the thread, but I don't have time to go through the 98 pages to find them all. would really appreciate if ye could help me here with a few things.

What documents need to be Appostilled? The Degree photocopy, Criminal back ground check, anything else? These all have to get a Notary too yeah?

degree needs to be notarised and apostilled. Most solicitors can notarise it and it is then apostilled at the dept of foreign affairs.

The back ground check doesn't need to be notarised as it's signed by the superintendent, it is then apostilled by the Dept of foreign affairs.

Does the photocopy of the passport need this too?

no

Do I need two sealed copies of my degree transcripts? I have one already, but read somewhere that the school and the embassy want a copy, is this true?

make copies for yourself just to have them, it'll save having to look for them again in the future. You can just photocopy them yourself, then bring them into your college and get the envelope sealed and stamped.

Where do I get the health check, here beforehand, or over in South Korea?

Korea. Though you have to fill out the health form and send it with your documents to get your visa.

Oh and has anyone ever worked for GnB schools? we have had an interview with one in Ulsan and so far it looks good...

It's a massive chain of schools. The franchise is sold to whoever wants to use the name. Each one is as different as the last in terms of how your boss will be as they all have seperate owners. You will find at least 3-4 GnB schools in every large town, let alone city. There doesn't seem to be any need to have a specified distance between where one can open in relation to an existing one. The was two in the space of 200metres where I lived and I knew of 3-4 others within 30mins walk from them.
Thanks

Who stamps the back of the passport photos?

no one, I think you may just have to write your name on the back (if you even have to do it) having a copy of your passport in with the documents proves you are the person in the picture.

RadioClash

dapto1 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a good book for learning Korean or a phrase book?

Phrasebooks are usually grand if your just visiting but wont get you very far otherwise. If you're serious about learning it, it needs to be attacked from many different angles, and you need to go balls out to get anywhere with it.

First off, learn Hangul, you should be able to read slowly after a week or two, it's not really that difficult. Next, start to get to grips with the grammar. I started with two books (which I'd recommend), Korean: an essential grammar (published by Routledge) and Korean grammar in use (Darakwon). Get an electronic dictionary to look up any unfamiliar vocab and make flashcards with the new words and plug them into sentence structures you've learned. Try to use them in conversation wherever possible. I also use the Sogang university textbooks (mostly because I'm familiar with them as I studied Korean there, but they're alright if a little childish). Read Koreans kids stories and see can you understand them. Read into Korean culture to understand why there is (quite confusing) honorific levels within the language and how they are used. If you're going to karaoke try singing in Korean!

This website is really good too http://www.koreanwikiproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

One of the most difficult things about learning is Koreans attitude to foreigners speaking. They'll compliment you in a 'ah thats cute the waeguk is speaking Korean' way, then try to revert to English. You end up having so many frustrating language battles even though you may be at a level where you're Korean is better than their English. My attitude generally is if their English is blatantly better than my Korean then fine English it is. Otherwise I take the attitude that hey we're in Korea, get your Englishee practice in at hagwon, I'm off the clock here.

Best of luck, it may seem like you're banging your head off a brick wall sometimes. But when it clicks and you finally start expressing yourself and joking around in the language, it's quite satisfying!

RadioClash

Also, would anyone be interested in a boards meetup in Seoul some weekend? Would be good to gather a few people here for a spot of galbi seeing as this thread is going so well.

dapto1

Cheers RadioClash, will check out those books. Would also be up for a Seoul meet once I get over there!

cavanmaniac

RadioClash wrote: »

Also, would anyone be interested in a boards meetup in Seoul some weekend? Would be good to gather a few people here for a spot of galbi seeing as this thread is going so well.

Good idea, why not?

Choccie Lover

RadioClash wrote: »

Also, would anyone be interested in a boards meetup in Seoul some weekend? Would be good to gather a few people here for a spot of galbi seeing as this thread is going so well.

That's a good idea. I'm in !

hyperbaby

Cool Running wrote: »

I used Fed Ex to send over my documents. I sent them from the office near Santry. DHL is the other option for sending docs over.

Ya mine was around 70 euro, sounds expensive but its guranteed to arrive in around 4 days. Your also given a tracking number which the school/recruiter will like to know so they can check the status of the docs.

gluck

Thanks for that, more than likely going with Fedex.
I rang UPS and I was quoted 79 euro.
I was going to use TNT through work but I don't want them finding out what I am up to until I choose to tell them.

I would be up for a Boards meet up in August/September but it would be cool if ye have one before that!

Also, I told the interviewer that I would learn the Korean alphabet before I got there so I need to get cracking on that.

dapto1

hyperbaby wrote: »

Also, I told the interviewer that I would learn the Korean alphabet before I got there so I need to get cracking on that.

The alphabet is a piece of cake, you'll get down pat it in a couple of days.

Hells Kitchen

Guys i have a couple of questions that i'd really appreciate help with. I'm seriously thinking of heading over in the next couple of months. I've no previous teaching exp and won't have done any TEFL course.

How exactly does the teaching work. Are you simply following a manual or are you making up complete lesson plans yourself? Are you expected to know all the grammer? Basically i'm worried about going over and not having a clue what to do and being completely in over my head. Any advice would be great.

cavanmaniac

Hells Kitchen...ESID. Every situation is different.

Broadly speaking though, in very generalised terms, in Hagwons there is no great emphasis placed on learning grammar because the students are supposed to learn this in school. So the Hagwons are more for improving speaking fluency and conversational ability.
It'd be quite easy to find a job where there are no huge demands placed on you for teaching grammar if you're very concerned about it. But if you are asked to teach some, it's not that hard...you'll find that you learn it yourself by teaching it, or by spending a little time preparing it before class.

Regarding lesson planning, again in general terms, in Hagwons they all tend to have their own 'systems' and ways of teaching that they expect you to stick to, so on the one hand, everything might be planned and laid out for you, but on the other, you'd have little freedom to teach things 'your way' if you wanted to get creative.

In public school jobs or at Universities, lesson planning is much more commonplace because the lessons you teach are not so pre-ordained. In the public school jobs you'd have a co-teacher and you have to prepare lesson plans and show them to your co-teacher etc. and any of my friends in Unis tell me that lesson planning is a big part of their job there too. If you want to learn about teaching, the reputable TEFL courses like Acels CELT or Cambridge CELTA (€1100-€1500 for a month long course) will give you a good grounding and take a lot of the guesswork out if for you, and make you less nervy about going into the class.

Overall, a lot of teachers come to Korea with no experience so many arrive with the same fears and worries as you, but after a period of adjustment you pick it up quickly and move along nicely. It helps if you take the time to find a job where they train you for a while before pitching you into the class though, this is something you can find out by asking former teachers and so on, before accepting any job.

cloneslad

Hells Kitchen wrote: »

Guys i have a couple of questions that i'd really appreciate help with. I'm seriously thinking of heading over in the next couple of months. I've no previous teaching exp and won't have done any TEFL course.

How exactly does the teaching work. Are you simply following a manual or are you making up complete lesson plans yourself? Are you expected to know all the grammer? Basically i'm worried about going over and not having a clue what to do and being completely in over my head. Any advice would be great.

No, but being able to spell it is always a bonus


I taught a lot of grammar to my students and the Korean teacher taught it too. If I didn't know it, then I googled it. Google is always your friend. Don't worry.

Each school is different. Some make you follow a schedule to the letter while others don't even have as much as a book for you to teach. I was somewhere in between, in that we had a schedule but didn't have to stick to it. So long as the book got finished in the time frame I could teach it how I liked, choose my own supplements and activities to go with it and my boss never interfered with how I taught.

I did have some classes where I picked the book and I decided how long I would teach it for. This was for the older classes where teaching a book was pointless as they were so advanced, so I'd spend most of my time playing scrabble, doing quizzes, making them debate various topics and generally just improving their speaking and natural vocabulary while the Korean teacher focused on their grammar and drilling a vocab book into them for their university exams.

Don't worry about it, you'll find that most people just wing it as they go along. You will most likely over-prepare for the first few weeks / months then you will get the hang of it and you'll be more relaxed and comfortable in what you do, what your classes enjoy and how to fill your class with fun, exciting and knowledgeable exercises.

virmilitaris

Regarding learning the language.

There's a great website by one of the major Universities here http://korean.sogang.ac.kr/ which is very handy indeed.

I agree with most people when they say that you can learn how to read the alphabet in a relatively short time but learning to pronounce it correctly will take much longer. The amount of foreigners here who claim to be able to read it and can't pronounce anything but the most basic syllables is astounding.

Even quite basic sounds like 다,더,도,두,드,디 can prove quite difficult for some people and thats only a simple consonant with the basic vowels. Add in vowels like ㅖ,ㅒ,ㅑ,ㅟ,ㅞ,ㅙ,ㅘ, ㅢ,ㅛ,ㅠ,ㅕ,ㅝ and you've got a lot of work ahead of you. There are sounds in Korean which are completely inaudible to most foreigners, even those who are for all practical purposes fluent, but are very important to native speakers.

Take the consonant ㄷ and the vowel ㅏ. 다 would sound like 'da' (or a soft 'ta') in English. But another constant ㄸ to make 따 sounds almost the same only more 'tense'. And yet another consonant ㅌ to make 타 again, sounds almost the same only aspirated. There are several consonants like this.

If a Korean were to speak these three sounds to you slowly you could tell the difference after a while but put them into words in sentences at normal speed and it's nigh on impossible to hear them never mind reproduce them. And if, for example, you say something like 방 (bang) instead of 빵 (aspirated bang) you are saying 'room' instead of 'bread'.

Korean is easier than Japanese or Chinese to get to an intermediate level at. But it is undoubtedly the worlds most difficult language for speakers of European languages to become fluent in.

RadioClash

virmilitaris wrote: »

Regarding learning the language.


I agree with most people when they say that you can learn how to read the alphabet in a relatively short time but learning to pronounce it correctly will take much longer. The amount of foreigners here who claim to be able to read it and can't pronounce anything but the most basic syllables is astounding.

Even quite basic sounds like 다,더,도,두,드,디 can prove quite difficult for some people and thats only a simple consonant with the basic vowels. Add in vowels like ㅖ,ㅒ,ㅑ,ㅟ,ㅞ,ㅙ,ㅘ, ㅢ,ㅛ,ㅠ,ㅕ,ㅝ and you've got a lot of work ahead of you. There are sounds in Korean which are completely inaudible to most foreigners, even those who are for all practical purposes fluent, but are very important to native speakers.

Take the consonant ㄷ and the vowel ㅏ. 다 would sound like 'da' (or a soft 'ta') in English. But another constant ㄸ to make 따 sounds almost the same only more 'tense'. And yet another consonant ㅌ to make 타 again, sounds almost the same only aspirated. There are several consonants like this.

If a Korean were to speak these three sounds to you slowly you could tell the difference after a while but put them into words in sentences at normal speed and it's nigh on impossible to hear them never mind reproduce them. And if, for example, you say something like 방 (bang) instead of 빵 (aspirated bang) you are saying 'room' instead of 'bread'.

Korean is easier than Japanese or Chinese to get to an intermediate level at. But it is undoubtedly the worlds most difficult language for speakers of European languages to become fluent in.

Regarding subtle differences in vowel sounds and aspirated consonants, yes that is a problem. I wouldn't say their inaudible to the Western ear though, and I think they present less of a challenge than tones in Mandarin or Cantonese for instance. If you have a keen ear and are a good mimic you'll do better than most. Korean is one of those languages where you can't really speak in your own accent really though. You can get away with your Irish lilt in a European language not so much in 한국어.

And yeah, people tend to plateau when learning Korean, I know I have lately and I'm tempted to go back to classes for more study to give myself an extra push.

virmilitaris

RadioClash wrote: »

Regarding subtle differences in vowel sounds and aspirated consonants, yes that is a problem. I wouldn't say their inaudible to the Western ear though,

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean inaudible to the western ear, I said inaudible to most foreigners. Once the sounds are in a sentence spoken at normal speed they are extremely difficult to distinguish for non-native speakers even those with years of learning behind them. I know several people who are relatively fluent in the language and have been here for years and most cannot distinguish between these sounds except by the context of the sentence in most cases.

and I think they present less of a challenge than tones in Mandarin or Cantonese for instance.

Sorry mate but every source I've ever seen strongly disagrees.

http://nihongo.3yen.com/2006-08-12/which-is-harder-japanese-or-korean/

With the exception of the /z/ consonant sounds (which Koreans usually can’t pronounce), the sounds in the Korean language are a superset of the sounds in Japanese. This means that in order to learn Korean, you not only have to learn most of the sounds in Japanese but also additional sounds, many whose difference I can’t even tell. This, I think, is the strongest argument for Korean being the harder language to learn. Because anytime somebody wants to try out a Korean phrase learned from a friend, I need to have it repeated about 5 or 6 six before I can tell what he is trying to say. And even then, it’s an educated guess at best.
With Japanese, though you sound like crap without the proper pitches, you can still make yourself understood with even the worst accents (most of the time).

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/languages/korean/faq/korean-vs-japanese.html

Japanese is relatively easy to pronounce correctly, whereas Korean makes distinctions between regular, stressed, and aspirated consonants which non-native speakers have a very hard time to distinguish.

Chinese appears more difficult to pronounce correctly than Korean, because of its tonal system. Korean has no tones, but makes hard-to-hear distinctions between regular, stressed and aspirated consonants. Korean also has a rythm which is very hard to catch. All things considered, one cannot say that Korean is easier than Chinese in terms of phonetics.

When compared to Chinese, Korean seems at first an easy language to pronounce, as there are no tones in Korean. However, as the student progresses he discovers that there are many, many unique sounds in Korean, and that they escape our ear. You can listen and listen for hours to pairs of contrasting consonants and hardly get the difference - not speaking of reproducing it.

I also had a link to a linguists site who did a research paper on learning Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Thai (from the perspective of a native English speaker) but I can't find it now. I'll have a look again for it, it's really quite interesting. His conclusions were basically as above. Korean sounds are much more difficult than any of the other languages (for native English speakers) and it is undoubtedly the king of the 4 for difficulty to become fluent.

To get to an intermediate level is harder than Chinese but easier than Japanese. To become really fluent (as in native-like level), there is no harder language for an English speaker to learn.

If you have a keen ear and are a good mimic you'll do better than most. Korean is one of those languages where you can't really speak in your own accent really though. You can get away with your Irish lilt in a European language not so much in 한국어.

+1 which is why I talked about the sounds.

ekevosu

Very interesting discussion above from the two lads so not to interupt that but one website I came across recently that would have helped me when i was starting is this one:

http://www.talktomeinkorean.com

http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/category/lessons/learn-hangeul/

I had a lecture from the guy who set it up at my orientation and he was fluent in several languages despite only picking them up later in life.

His method was first off just learn the stuff you want to say and then worry about grammar and subject markers etc....

Do_Lers

Hey there!

I would be up for a meet-up too! Been here a week and a half im teaching in a public school.

So far I love it, all is well. Sweet apartment and a a great co-teacher. There is no lesson-planning I just follow a CD-Rom program on a touch screen blackboard ( which I had never heard of) Its great! Hopefully it will stay good!

Any boardsies around Jamsil or Gangbyeon? Know of any good spots?

D

virmilitaris

ekevosu wrote: »

http://www.talktomeinkorean.com

http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/category/lessons/learn-hangeul/
.

That sites excellent. I never even heard of it before. Cheers.

kraggy

I'm in Seoul too.

So who's actually going to organise the Seoul Meet-Up?

Been here 3 weeks, so I think someone who's here longer should have to do it

virmilitaris

I'm up for it too.

I presume the meeting place will be itaewon somewhere. I'm not a fan of the wolfhound irish (american) bar but I'm not pushed either way.

What about scrooges or baby guinness In 2 weeks time?

hyperbaby

I was in baby guinness and the wolfhound amongst others last year.
It was a good night

SpatialPlanning

Howdy guys,

A few of us are setting up a GAA club in Busan for anyone who may be interested. If you are keen, or if you know anyone who might be interested, then you can send me an email - yahowho@hotmail.com - or check out the facebook page under "Busan GAA".

Cheers!

Newson123

I was quoted 60 and 70 Euro for posting over the documents too. It is cheaper if you use the An Post International Courier Service (just Google it). I cost me a little over 50 Euro. I forget exactly how much, but it was a nice bit cheaper than the other options.

They use DHL, so you get a tracking number that can be used on DHL's site.

Do_Lers

virmilitaris wrote: »

I'm up for it too.

I presume the meeting place will be itaewon somewhere. I'm not a fan of the wolfhound irish (american) bar but I'm not pushed either way.

What about scrooges or baby guinness In 2 weeks time?

Im in! So Friday May 3rd?

kraggy

Deleted User wrote: »

It must have dramatically changed.. For working 25 hours a week here, you get at least $1800 / $1900 a month with no experience and then extra part-time work for $25 an hour. I know some people getting $35 an hour. And not international schools or anything.
Nice room would be $250 and say $20 a day on food and drink which is more that I'd ever spend and I eat out every day and drink alot. Beer is a dollar a bottle or 25cents on the street and a meal costs about $2 / $3. Fags are 75cent a pack aswell.
You'll easily save $1200 / $1400 a month while living the life. That can't be much worse than Korea?

As for Korean students, I did some one on one with them in the Philippines.. Found it difficult. And as far as what I've heard from everyone else who's done both, they reckon Koreans are the most demanding students going.

Also, Vietnam uses the Roman Alphabet for their language which makes everything an awful lot easier I presume.. And again, the location is in S.E Asia which is just easier. And I just flew back here, pissed around for a while and started working within a few weeks. No hassle.


I'm certainly not saying Korea is bad, I'm just saying that more people should look into Vietnam.. It's almost like a secret that Hanoi is the highest paying place in S.E Asia while being dirt cheap.

Your numbers don't add up.

1900
- 250 (room)
- 600 (30 x 20 per day living expenses)
= 1050.

So it's not easily 1400 you'll be saving.

Also, I've been to Vietnam. You can't live the high life on 20 dollars a day. You can live on 20 a day, but no high life.

I'm still interested in hearing more though. Do you need Tefl/Celta for Vietnam?

virmilitaris

Do_Lers wrote: »

Im in! So Friday May 3rd?

I can't really do fridays but whatever the majority want. I'm usually round there on saturdays anyways.

cavanmaniac

virmilitaris wrote: »

I can't really do fridays but whatever the majority want. I'm usually round there on saturdays anyways.

I presume you mean June 3rd? I don't finish work until late so Friday is out for me as well, and that weekend I'm in Busan anyway. But by all means, crack on and I'll row in with the next one when it happens...

cloneslad

I can't do fridays, or itaewon, or seoul, or Korea for that matter.

Please feel free to cancel all events and spend your nights sitting in your apartment reading over all my posts on boards since I joined and wishing you could be close to me


Or just go out get drunk and have fun....whatever you want

kraggy

Thinking of heading to Busan for the weekend of the 3rd since we have the Monday and Tuesday off.

Can anyone suggest a cheap hotel in Busan, and a good location? Where are all the bars and restaurants?

Also, what's the deal with jimjilbangs? If you sleep in one, are the men and women separated for sleeping or is it all mixed in one big room? And are the lockers big enough to hold a bag?

Would Busan be worth a full 4 nights or just 2 or 3?

Thanks.

SpatialPlanning

kraggy wrote: »

Thinking of heading to Busan for the weekend of the 3rd since we have the Monday and Tuesday off.

Can anyone suggest a cheap hotel in Busan, and a good location? Where are all the bars and restaurants?

Also, what's the deal with jimjilbangs? If you sleep in one, are the men and women separated for sleeping or is it all mixed in one big room? And are the lockers big enough to hold a bag?

Would Busan be worth a full 4 nights or just 2 or 3?

Thanks.

Why do we get Monday and Tuesday off?? I've never met you but you're way more informative than my co-teacher! :rolleyes:

For hotels to stay in - I think you are better off with a love motel (will cost you approx. 60-80 per night), a hostel (20-35 per night) or a Jimjilbang (6-14K depending on how long you stay). Not all jimjilbangs are open 24 hours a day so you had better be careful with that. I do know one fantastic one near PNU, a place called Oncheonjang (sp?). It's supposedly one of the biggest in Asia and I would highly recommend it. When you are bathing you will be seperated but when you sleep you will be in a common area.

If I was you I'd go for a hostel. There are plenty of them in good locations and they are pretty cheap. I can give you a website for one or 2 if you are interested?

As for locations - I'd definitely stay in either KSU (stop 112 on the green line) or Gwangali (stop 107, I think, on the green line). KSU is the main party area and Gwangali has tons of good bars and most of them are overlooking a cool bay with a beach and bridge that is lit up at night. If you are in either of these places then you are only a reasonably short taxi ride to the other main going out places - Haeundae and Seomyeon. Personally I'd go for Gwangali because I go to KSU almost every weekend but for your first trip here KSU is a pretty good base.

virmilitaris

SpatialPlanning wrote: »

Why do we get Monday and Tuesday off?? I've never met you but you're way more informative than my co-teacher! :rolleyes:

I don't know what days you working people get off because it doesn't impact me but it's always good to look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_South_Korea. The 6th of June is a public holiday (apparently). I won't get it off though.

kraggy

kraggy wrote: »

Your numbers don't add up.

1900
- 250 (room)
- 600 (30 x 20 per day living expenses)
= 1050.

So it's not easily 1400 you'll be saving.

Also, I've been to Vietnam. You can't live the high life on 20 dollars a day. You can live on 20 a day, but no high life.

I'm still interested in hearing more though. Do you need Tefl/Celta for Vietnam?

You think I'm such a retard that I made a mistake on the maths.?!
I said extra work for $25 an hour.. So if you want to actually save money, do an extra 4 hours per week of private and you're at 1400.
It would have been easier for you to reread my post than do a maths nazi post.

$20 a day... That's 10 beers in a bar and 2 really nice $5 meals in a day. That's sounds like a high life for me.? And my new room is really nice and is only 190 a month, not 250 like I said.

As for the Telf/Celta, if ya want a secure job with a contract and bonus.. It's advisable. You can easily get away without one but it's just a bit messier and less likely to get good money.

virmilitaris

Deleted User wrote: »

I said extra work for $25 an hour.. So if you want to actually save money, do an extra 4 hours per week of private and you're at 1400.

In fairness if you worked 4 hours a week part-time in Korea you could easily make $200 or more so if you include extra work than you could save a lot more in Korea than in Vietnam for less work.

Edit: Out of curiosity I'm sitting beside a Vietnamese student (in Korea) at the moment and when I asked him about wages for teaching English back home he threw back numbers of $1000 to $1200 for private institutions and $15 to $20 an hour for private tutoring. Not saying your wrong and he's right but where are you living ? Is it a rich area ?

cloneslad

I may or may not have been getting $50 hour for a private lesson I may or may not have taught an ex student of mine.

If I did teach that class privately, which I'm not saying I did, I would have been gettin and extra $100 a week / $400 a month or when he was on vacation I may or may not have taught him two hours a day on tues/thurs getting $200 a week / $800 a month.

Couple that with my normal wages and during the vacation period i also taught an extra 3 classes a day for 4 weeks in my school, netting me and extra $1,300 for the month ($2,100 extra on top of my usual salary...if I taught the private class).

but of course teaching a private class is illegal on an E2 visa so I would never do such a thing. I did choose not to teach any other privates though, despite being asked to do so on a number of occassions, without ever advertising or looking to do them.