Tefl in South Korea

red_bairn

angryangel wrote: »

So, an interesting step in my job hunt.

Saw an ad for position in Gwangju where the position is an independent contract, (IC). So the school makes no pension or medical insurance contributions, but pays you the extra that normal schools would take for these. I applied out of curiousity and in a very short time was asked when I could send my documents.

I asked to be put in touch with a teacher there, did so, got positive answers about the place.

But a post on another forum stemming from the job ad itself has set off a rage about the viability and legality, particularly from a tax perspective, of independent contracts like this. Main points include:

- Without health insurance you're screwed if you get injured.
- The school is legally obligated to make these payments so may be writing the position off as IC to avoid it/pocket it.
- The taxes. This seems to be everyone's big issue. People claim that ICs are taxed incorrectly, others claim it's not.
Additionally, there's the issue of responsibility for taxes/insurance. As far as I can tell you are legally required to have health insurance in Korea, not sure about pension. Folk claim that for an IC situation you will still be required to organise these payments yourself, so any extra income you generate from not having the pension/medical deductions from the salary you earn will be offset by this and leave you exposed if it's done wrong.


Does anyone have any insight into this situation? Is this job above board, or am I dealing with a possible deception? Is any of that information wrong?

All help and advice greatly appreciated, many thankings you.

Trust me. It's worth getting the insurance. I had to get surgery done on my hand for a boxers fracture...don't ask. The cover to stay in for 2nights, surgery and return check ups cost about a million won. I asked my boss if we could then sort out the insurance and luckily we could reclaim most of the costs 80% or so.

The boss should also take something like 8% or some small figure off your salary for tax. But, as said previously, they pay 50% medical insurance each month. I paid the full amount in my local bank branch and got her to pay me extra on the salary.

daesu

cloneslad wrote: »

Are you sure they're not offering them on F visas?

You can work more than one job on an E2 visa, but you have to have a main sponsor. This sponsor must pay tax, pension and medical as per government regulations.

Yeah I'm sure because my mate's on an E2 but you're absolutely right they do pay tax, pension, and medical for him.

angryangel

So got very quick responses from the school rep and teacher.

Both apparently talked about it and have told me that because of the contract if I want medical insurance the school is willing to help make arrangements for it, including making the contributions of 5% for medical, 9% for pension and two as yet unknown percentages for unemployment fund and injury at work. These come from my salary in the form of 2.5% for medical and 4.5% for pension as the cost is split between me and the school in a way that makes it sounds like a typical contract. Okay, sounds alright.

But the teacher also mentioned that no teacher at the school past or present has ever had medical insurance, on the grounds that going to the doctor in Korea is cheap!

They both end by saying there have been no problems with any teachers taxes at the rate of 3.3%. So now my confusion is two fold.

First, I've been told you must be enrolled in the National Health Insurance Corporation to work in Korea. So how has no teacher at the school ever not had insurance? The teacher claims everyone is on E2 Visas. But doesn't that require you to be enrolled in these programs?

Second, if it's so easy to set up and your willing to do it, why are you not just doing it anyway? If the aim is to attract teachers with a higher salary, what's the problem given that everyone says there is an overwhelming supply of wannabe and experienced teachers? The job is in Gwangju, a big enough city, so you'd think the rural vs city argument is out.

A quick bit of information about me. I do a lot of martial arts, so have been banged up a few times and recently just had surgery for a benign tumour. So for me, insurance is a very important part of this, which combined with the heated debate that began on another site about the viability and legality of being an IC with no contributions, leads to the stink I'm raising.

First time teacher, little practical knowledge of how the system works, so for me this whole situation seems to be overly tricky. Is any of the above not seem true/accurate/reliable to any of the experienced contributors and how does the overall situation seem to you with this new information?

Thanks for all the insight, your help is greatly appreciated.

daesu

angryangel wrote: »

But the teacher also mentioned that no teacher at the school past or present has ever had medical insurance, on the grounds that going to the doctor in Korea is cheap!

Depends what for.

Many things are ridiculously cheap when you go to the local small hospitals. A lot of foreigners make the mistake of thinking the small hospitals are like GPs, they are not. They can do pretty much everything a large hospital can do (except for serious injuries) but they specialise in one area so you need to find the right place.

General hospitals are expensive for anything. Do NOT go to them unless you absolutely need to.

They both end by saying there have been no problems with any teachers taxes at the rate of 3.3%. So now my confusion is two fold.

Isn't that the normal rate ? I'm not a teacher and I'm pretty sure that's what I'm paying.

First, I've been told you must be enrolled in the National Health Insurance Corporation to work in Korea.

There are loopholes. I know some who don't and I didn't here when I did work as a teacher.

So how has no teacher at the school ever not had insurance? The teacher claims everyone is on E2 Visas. But doesn't that require you to be enrolled in these programs?

Technically.

The job is in Gwangju, a big enough city, so you'd think the rural vs city argument is out.

Most people (Koreans included) want to live in the Seoul area.

A quick bit of information about me. I do a lot of martial arts, so have been banged up a few times and recently just had surgery for a benign tumour.

The kind of insurance you get with the school probably doesn't cover that anyways. You need to read up on what is covered.

cloneslad

Do you want to risk going to a school that you don't feel sure about? Everything they do from now on will make you question them. You will be nervous from now until you get there, and even after that.

Wait, choose something that you like, something that eradicates your nerves.

As daesu said, read up on insurance, also check to see if you are medically fit to pass the medical to stay in the country. The benign tumour won't stop you, but if you have any other illnesses then you may not pass. Though this is very unlikely, I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Also, sick days....they don't exist. They may be in your contract, but you don't take them, Koreans work when dying, you will be expected to do the same.

daesu

cloneslad wrote: »

Also, sick days....they don't exist. They may be in your contract, but you don't take them, Koreans work when dying, you will be expected to do the same.

+1, Can't emphasise this enough.

squeakyduck

cloneslad wrote: »

Also, sick days....they don't exist. They may be in your contract, but you don't take them, Koreans work when dying, you will be expected to do the same.

I think it depends on the school. I've only worked in two schools and my contract states 3 sick days. I called in sick for a day in my first school...no problem as I had my classes planned. But with this school I have 3 days again. Not been sick yet but I get a bonus if I don't take any....

Just my two cents. I know people who were marched to the doctor with their co teachers so beware! :pac:

angryangel

Many thanks for all the advice. In the end I've turned down the Gwangju job.

To top it off, I've now been offered a job in Siheung 3 - 10pm. Have a couple more things to interview for, but this seems...better.

Any info on Siheung? How is working late shifts like that? This one does pay medical etc, so that's a good beginning.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

daesu

angryangel wrote: »

To top it off, I've now been offered a job in Siheung 3 - 10pm. Have a couple more things to interview for, but this seems...better.

Any info on Siheung? How is working late shifts like that? This one does pay medical etc, so that's a good beginning.

Siheung city or Siheung in Geumcheon ? And if it's the city then where in the city ?

That shift is pretty typical. 2 - 9pm would probably be the most common I've seen.

angryangel

Siheung City, in the northern part, near Bucheon.

I am interested, I'm hoping to get the contract reviewed to help make my mind up.

daesu

angryangel wrote: »

Siheung City, in the northern part, near Bucheon.

I am interested, I'm hoping to get the contract reviewed to help make my mind up.

Yeah you're not far from me actually. Bucheons known as a great place for first timers because it's not far from Seoul, it's easy to get around and there are plenty of amenities around. There's a relatively large foreign community in the surrounding areas.

There's also a foreign community in Siheung itself, they have a FB page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/185263571496378/

angryangel

So the contract review for Siheung was a bit 'meh', some questionable aspects, still considering.

In the meantime I've made contact with a recruiter called www.daegutefljob.com. Found one reference to them on this very thread from years ago. Anyone dealt with them, in particular Gene?

This recruiter has put forward Talking Club English School in north east Daegu. Apparently this is a franchise, anyone any experience with Talking Club?

Anyone in Daegu? How is it? I remember being told ages ago that there's a big foreigner community there, particularly Irish.

All insight greatly appreciated.

cloneslad

Looks like tiger English are no longer operating

Cool Running

cloneslad wrote: »

Looks like tiger English are no longer operating

Ah I remember when I was applying for jobs I contacted these guys and they told me about a few possible positions but never got back to me after that.

Oh for anyone round Seoul for Saint Patricks Day the Irish Association of Korea is going to have a festival, I was at it last year it was pretty good craic!


http://iak.co.kr/st-patricks-2013/

daesu

By the way lads, speaking of Paddys day.

Anyone who hasn't registered with the embassy should do so immediately. The embassy are putting on a party in a hotel in Itaewon on the 14th and they are inviting anyone who registered.

If the last time was anything to go by it'll be well worth the effort.

http://www.embassyofireland.or.kr/home/index.aspx?id=44447

http://ireland.visahq.com/embassy/South-Korea/

R.D. aka MR.D

daesu wrote: »

By the way lads, speaking of Paddys day.

Anyone who hasn't registered with the embassy should do so immediately. The embassy are putting on a party in a hotel in Itaewon on the 14th and they are inviting anyone who registered.

If the last time was anything to go by it'll be well worth the effort.

http://www.embassyofireland.or.kr/home/index.aspx?id=44447

http://ireland.visahq.com/embassy/South-Korea/

I'm registered but i haven't gotten an email about it!

The last email i got was about the winter Olympics.

daesu

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I'm registered but i haven't gotten an email about it!

The last email i got was about the winter Olympics.

Don't know what's going on then, I must be special ? :pac:

Maybe it's for non-teachers or long-time residents or something ?

angryangel

Hello all, I'm here with more questions, questions, questions. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

What's the difference between an afterschool program and a regular hagwon job?

A recruiter from ages ago has got in touch offering me one of these positions in Incheon. Details are:

- 12 to 6pm, Mon - Friday
- Expected to teach six 45 minute classes a day (that sounds heavy, literally 15 minute turnaround)
- 2.2 million won p/m
- Housing, airfare, pension and medical all included
- Severance pay
- 10 holidays plus national

The recruiter filled in some details that it's run through a public school on a program called "Education Love" (anyone familiar with it?)

This sounds almost too good to be true. Hagwon money for 30 hours a week, granted it's a busy 30 hours by the sound, plus all the perks. Has anyone worked a position like this before? How are they?

Thanks for any info and advice.

daesu

angryangel wrote: »

What's the difference between an afterschool program and a regular hagwon job?

Usually it means;

Afterschool program: You work in an actual public school (for a private company which the school contracts I think) teaching the students of that school when they are free from other classes. Teaching hours are usually 12-1pm-ish to 5/6pm-ish. These jobs are (usually) some of the better ones.

Regular hagwon: You work in a private school which students attend when time permits. Hours at work are usually 1-3pm-ish to 8-10pm-ish but with breaks inbetween classes (at some stage).

- 12 to 6pm, Mon - Friday
- Expected to teach six 45 minute classes a day (that sounds heavy, literally 15 minute turnaround)

It's usual. Nothing to complain about.

- 2.2 million won p/m

That's good considering the lack of jobs recently and that you are a first-timer.

This sounds almost too good to be true. Hagwon money for 30 hours a week, granted it's a busy 30 hours by the sound, plus all the perks. Has anyone worked a position like this before? How are they?

As above, they are sought after and yes they are good.

edit: btw where in Incheon ? It matters.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

red_bairn

Phoenix wrote: »

What is the general payscale for new qualified teachers with a undergraduate degree in English and a CELTA?

The same payscale for a person without a degree in English.

daesu

Phoenix wrote: »

What is the general payscale for new qualified teachers with a undergraduate degree in English and a CELTA?

For many, maybe most, private schools for children, they don't care about any skills past having a degree to legally get a visa hence they'll pay pretty much the same for qualified English teachers as they would to someone with a degree in anything else.

Some private schools for children reward higher qualifications with higher money but you must remember that your nationality and race are also huge factors.

For example, if it's a choice between a qualified Irish/Australian/South African English teacher with teaching experience and a CELTA etc or a North American with no experience and a degree in anything, the North American will usually get the job.

Better schools for children and adults will care about qualifications.

The pay can be anywhere from 1.8 million won to 3.0 million per month. The average is about 2 - 2.2 million these days I think.

But remember the pay is just a part of it. In Korea they provide accomodation and pay half of your medical insurance.

You can also live for very little if you want to save money. You can spend a lot on food everyday or very little, you can buy expensive beer or drink really cheap stuff.

So overall, from a financial viewpoint, its definately one of the best places to go for teaching. Probably the best in Asia.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

daesu

Phoenix wrote: »

That makes no sense

There's a lot here that makes no sense. :pac:

Heres some reasons;

- Koreans are genuinely more used to some North American accents (TV, movies etc) and genuinely do have problems understanding others.

- Many Koreans believe the US is the greatest at <insert everything>. They're the richest, most powerful country in the world. Most would love to send their kids to schools in the US because it's highly advantageous to them for employment later.

So the private schools want to lure the most customers and they do so by providing what they think the parents want. Mommy and Daddy are usually much more impressed hearing their kid is conversing with an American than an Australian etc.

red_bairn

daesu wrote: »

There's a lot here that makes no sense. :pac:

Heres some reasons;

- Koreans are genuinely more used to some North American accents (TV, movies etc) and genuinely do have problems understanding others.

- Many Koreans believe the US is the greatest at <insert everything>. They're the richest, most powerful country in the world. Most would love to send their kids to schools in the US because it's highly advantageous to them for employment later.

So the private schools want to lure the most customers and they do so by providing what they think the parents want. Mommy and Daddy are usually much more impressed hearing their kid is conversing with an American than an Australian etc.

While working in a hagwon, I would give examples of words in US and UK English - great for the kids. But there were times I started getting into American mode by calling football 'soccer' and chips 'crisps'...I felt soooooo dirty.

johnnycnandy

Any folk living in Ulsan here? I'm new to it. Lived in Daegu last year, and I'm finding it mind-numbingly boring here.

Mr. Loverman

from a financial viewpoint, its definately one of the best places to go for teaching. Probably the best in Asia.

Beijing is better. I know a guy earning 15k EUR a month doing private lessons.

Most people don't earn this much but around 2k EUR a month for about 20 hours a week is easy to find.

daesu

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Beijing is better. I know a guy earning 15k EUR a month doing private lessons.

Yeah there are jobs like that in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc as well. But they are the outliers, not the rule.

Financially speaking, because of the provided housing, cheap cost of living that's possible, and medical insurance. Korea is (or was unless things have drastically changed) the best place to go in Asia.

angryangel

Frigging heck, saw the headlines about North Korea getting rowdy.

I posted up about this a while ago and most said it's rare for it to be serious, still, hope all you expats out there are alright.

squeakyduck

angryangel wrote: »

Frigging heck, saw the headlines about North Korea getting rowdy.

I posted up about this a while ago and most said it's rare for it to be serious, still, hope all you expats out there are alright.

Ah, they are all bark and no bite!

Lads, *just in case* don't forget to register with the Irish embassy! I know there are lots of new people out here with the latest EPIK intake.

munsterdevil

For anyone moving to Daegu and the surrounding areas (Ulsan, Gumi etc.) we have a Gaelic football club and have a round robin tournament with Laochra Busan and Seoul Gaels, you can find us on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4968316925/

red_bairn

squeakyduck wrote: »

Ah, they are all bark and no bite!

Lads, *just in case* don't forget to register with the Irish embassy! I know there are lots of new people out here with the latest EPIK intake.

Still registered and I'm at home

Legs.Eleven

Hey guys!! Getting my stuff together (almost have all documentation needed) to apply for a job and go over. I plan to go in the Summer - what month do you think would be a good time to go? When will there be more jobs available or are there always some jobs throughout the year?


Thank you!

red_bairn

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Hey guys!! Getting my stuff together (almost have all documentation needed) to apply for a job and go over. I plan to go in the Summer - what month do you think would be a good time to go? When will there be more jobs available or are there always some jobs throughout the year?


Thank you!

The school year starts in March and most hagwons like you to start in March as well but they are more flexible than public schools. So it might be harder to find a public school job unless a teacher left early or they need an extra teacher.

Legs.Eleven

red_bairn wrote: »

The school year starts in March and most hagwons like you to start in March as well but they are more flexible than public schools. So it might be harder to find a public school job unless a teacher left early or they need an extra teacher.

I see. Is the pay better in a public school? The idea is to go to save money, so that'd be my priority.

red_bairn

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I see. Is the pay better in a public school? The idea is to go to save money, so that'd be my priority.

The pay can be higher in public schools, in some cases, i.e. you get certain rural pay if you teach down in the countryside. The pay is usually between 2.1 - 2.3m WON. But public schools can be better for security and holidays.

Legs.Eleven

red_bairn wrote: »

The pay can be higher in public schools, in some cases, i.e. you get certain rural pay if you teach down in the countryside. The pay is usually between 2.1 - 2.3m WON. But public schools can be better for security and holidays.

Okay thank you. Unfortunately I have to hang on till the Summer as I'm teaching here in Spain right now and have to finish the year out and I also still have some stuff to get together but if nothing comes up, I suppose I'll have to hang on.

Teaching rurally appeals, actually! It's all about the money.

roosh

red_bairn wrote: »

The pay can be higher in public schools, in some cases, i.e. you get certain rural pay if you teach down in the countryside. The pay is usually between 2.1 - 2.3m WON. But public schools can be better for security and holidays.

In public school your pay grade depends on your qualifications and experience. Pay can go up to 2.7m won.

I'm in public school but can't remember exactly how it works; on my contract it has the pay grades listed, but not the criteria, and it goes from 2.1m won to 2.7m. I think if you are starting out with just a basic degree and no experience then I think the starting salary is about 2.1m won. But that is in Gangwon-do, which would be considered rural, so the pay may be somewhat inflated. I had it in my head that the starting salary elsewhere was 1.8m, but someone else would need to confirm that.

The paygrade on my contract goes as follows:
Level 3: 2.1m
Level 2: 2.2m
Level 2+: 2.3m
Level 1: 2.5m
Level 1+: 2.7m


I think if you are starting out with the basic degree, no qualifications or no experience, then you'd be on the lowest grade, obviously. I came over with a CELTA but no experience, which bumped me up a pay grade, but I'm fairly sure any 120+hr TEFL will do the same. I think a masters has the same effect.

I think you get moved up a paygrade every year you are with EPIK, but as I was typing this I suddenly started to question it and can't remember if I'm just assuming you do. I got bumped up a level this year, just by virtue of having completed a year with them. I think that if you've already got experience that will also make you start at a higher level, but you would need to confirm that - that is, I don't think it's only experience with EPIK that counts.


I actually thought that Hagwons paid higher than EPIK, for those starting out at least.

red_bairn

roosh wrote: »

I had it in my head that the starting salary elsewhere was 1.8m, but someone else would need to confirm that.

Nah, I think it's 2.1mil standard and works up after each year.

roosh wrote: »

I actually thought that Hagwons paid higher than EPIK, for those starting out at least.

Well I started on 2.1 and the following year was 2.2 - but some places in Seoul or elsewhere might start you off with a higher amount if you work those horrible 2-10pm sessions.

Legs.Eleven

Is free accommodation quite a standard thing to offer?

red_bairn

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Is free accommodation quite a standard thing to offer?

Anybody on an E2 visa is provided free accommodation and I think this is still the same for the near future.

Legs.Eleven

red_bairn wrote: »

Anybody on an E2 visa is provided free accommodation and I think this is still the same for the near future.

Excellent. That'd be a massive help as the idea is to save.


I've got the TEFL cert, a degree and I've been teaching for 3 and a half years. Wonder what kinda pay I'd get. Even the minimum sounds decent.

Truley

I have sent my EPIK application in for Fall 2013 and am currently waiting on my interview date. So excited but nervous! I have a degree in Social Studies, TEFL cert, and three years experience working with young children and teens but no teaching experience. It seems like EPIK gets a lot of applicants and is competitive to get into.

red_bairn

Truley wrote: »

I have sent my EPIK application in for Fall 2013 and am currently waiting on my interview date. So excited but nervous! I have a degree in Social Studies, TEFL cert, and three years experience working with young children and teens but no teaching experience. It seems like EPIK gets a lot of applicants and is competitive to get into.

I hope you are gonna teach the kids the variations of English.

I usually gave them the options of UK/US English and described the meanings of some the words.

Legs.Eleven

What's this EPIK thing?

red_bairn

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

What's this EPIK thing?

http://www.teachaway.com/teach-english-korea/epik-english-program-korea-public-school-jobs-korea/

EPIK is a handy program to get with. Some of my mates were doing this and were in a nice deal. I think the best benefit of this program would be the 'over 5 weeks of vacation time'. :rolleyes:

10days @ hagwon.

Truley

red_bairn wrote: »

I hope you are gonna teach the kids the variations of English.

I usually gave them the options of UK/US English and described the meanings of some the words.

When I first typed that I had written August but then changed it to 'Fall' as it's what they call the school term in EPIK. Do they prefer UK or US English in Korea? I am presuming they prefer US

red_bairn

Truley wrote: »

When I first typed that I had written August but then changed it to 'Fall' as it's what they call the school term in EPIK. Do they prefer UK or US English in Korea? I am presuming they prefer US

Yeah, but don't feel that they should be restricted to that so. Give them a choice. You won't get fired over it.

Truley

red_bairn wrote: »

Yeah, but don't feel that they should be restricted to that so. Give them a choice. You won't get fired over it.

Lol that's good to know. I think it's important for students to know the variations of words and spellings. Are you working with EPIK?