Tefl in South Korea

cloneslad

livinginkorea wrote: »

Where are you heading to next if you don't mind me asking? Going to teach more around Asia? Seriously, I would do some interviews at universities for the laugh. You never know. Worth the experience too.

I will be heading back home. My best friend is getting married at the end of April and I am his best man so I would like to be around for a while before it too. My contract finished at the start of march and i will head around s.e asia and india for 4/5 weeks before getting back home.

I think I would have a good shot at getting some level of university position. I think I am a good enough teacher, I have a masters degree and a first class honours degree. I would also have three years of experience teaching (in Korea), which isn't bad for someone who would only be 26 at the time of starting.

I am giving some thought of doing the pgde next year though. I guess if I didn't get into that I would consider a uni place for the following september hiring season, only problem is, I would be out of country for the interview process.

livinginkorea

cloneslad wrote: »

I guess if I didn't get into that I would consider a uni place for the following september hiring season, only problem is, I would be out of country for the interview process.

That isn't the end of the world although most employeers would like to interview face-to-face. However, a MA with 3 years experience in Korea would still have a decent chance even if hiring outside of Korea. You could record a video demostration or teaching practice to send with your resume. I have heard others doing it and getting jobs (I admit one was from Havard) so it is worth a try. With your classes now it's no harm to break out the video camera for practice.

Also you don't have to do the whole ESL/language thing either. A lot of departments in Korean universities do have non-Koreans teaching and a lot of them have MAs in their fields of study. Boosts the profile of the university too. I'm teaching TESOL with an MA in TESOL and I have met a couple of lads in the business department from Canada so it can be done. Worth looking up anyway. Usually it would be advertised on the university website, not on Dave's ESL. Might even be worth checking out the nearest university to you. Sometimes that works simply because lots of departments in universities don't know where to look. Agencies help hagwons but universities do that by themselves. Finally, KOTESOL is always a good place to network as well. You never know what you might fine. That's how I got my current job.

livinginkorea

livinginkorea wrote: »

Also you don't have to do the whole ESL/language thing either. A lot of departments in Korean universities do have non-Koreans teaching and a lot of them have MAs in their fields of study. Boosts the profile of the university too. I'm teaching TESOL with an MA in TESOL and I have met a couple of lads in the business department from Canada so it can be done. Worth looking up anyway. Usually it would be advertised on the university website, not on Dave's ESL. Might even be worth checking out the nearest university to you. Sometimes that works simply because lots of departments in universities don't know where to look. Agencies help hagwons but universities do that by themselves. Finally, KOTESOL is always a good place to network as well. You never know what you might fine. That's how I got my current job.

Sorry to butt in, but are you saying you can teach the subject you studied in college, with just an MA? I have an honours degree in French and Spanish and hopefully will have an MA in translation and interpreting, would I have a chance of being able to teach my foreign languages rather than English?

cloneslad

[quote=[Deleted User];65290792]Sorry to butt in, but are you saying you can teach the subject you studied in college, with just an MA? I have an honours degree in French and Spanish and hopefully will have an MA in translation and interpreting, would I have a chance of being able to teach my foreign languages rather than English?[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't be very popular. Very little business is carried out in french or spanish so not as many students would be studying it and they don't study it in school either...plus if it they wanted someone they would prob look for a native speaker to teach it.

cloneslad

livinginkorea wrote: »

That isn't the end of the world although most employeers would like to interview face-to-face. However, a MA with 3 years experience in Korea would still have a decent chance even if hiring outside of Korea. You could record a video demostration or teaching practice to send with your resume. I have heard others doing it and getting jobs (I admit one was from Havard) so it is worth a try. With your classes now it's no harm to break out the video camera for practice.

Also you don't have to do the whole ESL/language thing either. A lot of departments in Korean universities do have non-Koreans teaching and a lot of them have MAs in their fields of study. Boosts the profile of the university too. I'm teaching TESOL with an MA in TESOL and I have met a couple of lads in the business department from Canada so it can be done. Worth looking up anyway. Usually it would be advertised on the university website, not on Dave's ESL. Might even be worth checking out the nearest university to you. Sometimes that works simply because lots of departments in universities don't know where to look. Agencies help hagwons but universities do that by themselves. Finally, KOTESOL is always a good place to network as well. You never know what you might fine. That's how I got my current job.

It is something to fall back on. I love my school, I have a great and very spacious apartment in the centre of where I live and I have an awesome boss too so I have no complaints on that side of things. I know I could get better money elsewhere, as well as better holidays but I knew what I was coming back to and how sweet it was here so it was worth it to me than finding somewhere new and not knowing what the place was like.

I think if I was to stay in korea for the long term I would move into universities as it better for me and looks better on a c.v but I honestly can't see myself staying here longterm. My g.f doesn't want to, we both have new born nephews with more on the way and we want to see them grow up. I would like to get more experienced in my field, if that is in Ireland or England or wherever I don't really mind though as it would be worth it.

I live on geoje do, we don't have any unis close by, although busan is only an hour away by ferry, 2 hours by bus. We do have a technical college, in fact I go there every saturday for a 4 hour korean class. If I am right in thinking, you are working for the university of Birmingham over there for their online tesol program? where is that located?

livinginkorea

[quote=[Deleted User];65290792]Sorry to butt in, but are you saying you can teach the subject you studied in college, with just an MA? I have an honours degree in French and Spanish and hopefully will have an MA in translation and interpreting, would I have a chance of being able to teach my foreign languages rather than English?[/QUOTE]

Cloneslad was right in mentioning that they would probably get a native French or Spanish speaker. French is popular enough in universities so it is possible you could get a position working in two departments - English and French, especially in a college or countryside university. Definitely it would be worth looking into.

It doesn't happen often that somebody teaches something other than a language but it does happen. There are some on Dave's ESL. I guess literature would be the most popular and then education probably followed by business, law, medicine and engineering but that depends on the university. Many people forget this. They just think Korea is all about English. Most of the top universities teach a considerable part of their courses in English.

Check out the recruitement for SNU (Seoul National University),

http://professor.snu.ac.kr/eng/e_Newopenings.jsp

Granted they want PhDs (top 50 in the world after all) but not all universites would be like this.

livinginkorea

cloneslad wrote: »

... If I am right in thinking, you are working for the university of Birmingham over there for their online tesol program? where is that located?

I am a tutor and marker for the University of Birmingham which is a distance learning course (not online, thankfully) and all of my students are in Korea. That is just the side job. My full time job is teaching in the MA in TESOL department for a university just outside Seoul. About 20% of my students are native speakers and the rest are very good. All classes are in English and we have six lecturers in the department. It's very enjoyable work. Good for my resume when I go back to Ireland.

cloneslad

livinginkorea wrote: »

I am a tutor and marker for the University of Birmingham which is a distance learning course (not online, thankfully) and all of my students are in Korea. That is just the side job. My full time job is teaching in the MA in TESOL department for a university just outside Seoul. About 20% of my students are native speakers and the rest are very good. All classes are in English and we have six lecturers in the department. It's very enjoyable work. Good for my resume when I go back to Ireland.

is it wrong that when I read my quote back on your post I really wanted to delete the bit saying 'there' instead of 'their'

Ah I was supposed to say distance, didn't mean online. I was looking at that course a few nights ago, not so much out of genuine consideration, more out of curiosity. How expensive is it?

Having university experience is def great for back home, even more so if you want to get into third level education lecturing or securing a place on a phd program.

livinginkorea

cloneslad wrote: »

is it wrong that when I read my quote back on your post I really wanted to delete the bit saying 'there' instead of 'their'

Ah I was supposed to say distance, didn't mean online. I was looking at that course a few nights ago, not so much out of genuine consideration, more out of curiosity. How expensive is it?

Having university experience is def great for back home, even more so if you want to get into third level education lecturing or securing a place on a phd program.

Spelling is done

The course is around 13 million I think. Can not remember the exact amount. Basically it was 2.2 in 6 installments over the 2 and a half years. Could be a little more expensive now. Luckily the rate of currency has nothing to do with it when you are in the course. I think they have about 100 students in Korea which is decent enough considering when I did it a couple years ago they had around 30.

The parchment for the MA is the same for both on and off campus. You can actually go to the uni and speed up the process too which some have done. Worth doing if you are on a timetable or have the cash.

littlemizz99

Hiya,
Dunno if this is the right forum for this but I was thinking of heading to Korea teaching in Sept myself. I have a friend out there who plans to stay for another 6 months or so from Sept but Im also kinda wondering about travelling alone!!Id have to get out there and get set up myself and I may be miles away from where my friend lives!!
Was just lookin for some advice or for anyone who fancies heading to Korea in September!!

blackalicious

hey littlemizz

im hoping to head over in september too, im trying to persuade some of my mates to come too but ill prob be goin over alone. Im planning to go to seoul. I have just sent in my cv to http://www.tigerenglish.com/.. They are an irish recruitment company which I have heard good things about. I haven't heard anything back from them yet (i only sent it in today) but I think they set you up with interviews you do over the phone. I think its important to make sure you get a good job, that treats you welll etc.. because I have heard some horror stories. I know I will try and and do as much research about the school before I accept a job there. Im still not really sure whats better a public school job or hagwon. Ive absolutely no teaching experience so im kind of worried about that, im hoping to do a tefl course but im sort of broke at the moment...

so whats your plan?

littlemizz99

blackalicious wrote: »

hey littlemizz

im hoping to head over in september too, im trying to persuade some of my mates to come too but ill prob be goin over alone. Im planning to go to seoul. I have just sent in my cv to http://www.tigerenglish.com/.. They are an irish recruitment company which I have heard good things about. I haven't heard anything back from them yet (i only sent it in today) but I think they set you up with interviews you do over the phone. I think its important to make sure you get a good job, that treats you welll etc.. because I have heard some horror stories. I know I will try and and do as much research about the school before I accept a job there. Im still not really sure whats better a public school job or hagwon. Ive absolutely no teaching experience so im kind of worried about that, im hoping to do a tefl course but im sort of broke at the moment...

so whats your plan?

heya!!great to get a reply so fast!!
I was looking at going through a canadian company, the one my friend used last year. she got on great with them...dont have the websit at hand but i can get it for u. they give u a weeks orienatation when u get over there and they place u in a school and everything, thing wit them is that I think there only takin people this year who have a TEFL qualification. My friend went last year without anything but i think they have a lot more people looking to go this year so thats what they want! I was looking at Soeul too or Incheon.. Hoping to do the TEFL thing over the Summer and head off in Sept...just a but wary of heading out there alone..!I have heard some horror stories too!
Think the only diff between public and private schools is that u might get paid a bit more in a public school than a private but u get less days off-well that what im told anyway!!

Do u have a degree ya?

DeadMoney

Hi, sorry to be taking this a bit off topic but does anybody know if you can go over to S Korea and work somewhere like a bar for example? I want to do teaching also but I will have to wait until my degree comes through after I finish next June so most likely would not be able to apply for teaching jobs until September next year. Really don't want to have to hang around waiting for my degree to be credited so was just thinking that going over early and working at something else might be a good chance to live there while waiting for the degree to come through. Anyway obviously this would be subject to Visa laws in S Korea etc. Can anybody please advise?
Thanks

fcussen

DeadMoney wrote: »

Hi, sorry to be taking this a bit off topic but does anybody know if you can go over to S Korea and work somewhere like a bar for example? I want to do teaching also but I will have to wait until my degree comes through after I finish next June so most likely would not be able to apply for teaching jobs until September next year. Really don't want to have to hang around waiting for my degree to be credited so was just thinking that going over early and working at something else might be a good chance to live there while waiting for the degree to come through. Anyway obviously this would be subject to Visa laws in S Korea etc. Can anybody please advise?
Thanks

THe immigration laws in South Korea are extremely restrictive. THe different visas only allow you to work in specific jobs, e.g. it is illegal for you to tutor privately on the side while working as an English teacher, and it's also illegal for non-Koreans to own property in South Korea. I don't think there is a visa that allows foreigners to work in the service industry there, or at the very least it's difficult to obtain one, as every Irish bar I went to there was staffed entirely by Koreans, and every foreign-food restaurant was owned and worked in by Koreans.

Additionally, although it's not necessarily a bad idea to see the schools in person before you work for them, if you were to head to South Korea before you have all the stuff necessary for an E2 Visa, it would require an awkward "Visa Run" to a different country, as you have to have your passport stamped at the airport in order for your visa to be valid, and this requires leaving the country and then coming back.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=20648

http://www.efl-law.com/visarun.php

(another thing, June/July is monsoon season in Korea - the weather is really humid and sticky - it's more pleasantly warm in September)

blackalicious

littlemizz99 wrote: »

heya!!great to get a reply so fast!!
I was looking at going through a canadian company, the one my friend used last year. she got on great with them...dont have the websit at hand but i can get it for u. they give u a weeks orienatation when u get over there and they place u in a school and everything, thing wit them is that I think there only takin people this year who have a TEFL qualification. My friend went last year without anything but i think they have a lot more people looking to go this year so thats what they want! I was looking at Soeul too or Incheon.. Hoping to do the TEFL thing over the Summer and head off in Sept...just a but wary of heading out there alone..!I have heard some horror stories too!
Think the only diff between public and private schools is that u might get paid a bit more in a public school than a private but u get less days off-well that what im told anyway!!

Do u have a degree ya?

yeah got my degree last year and am doing a higher diploma now which i will finish in may. yeah id be interested in the name of that complany if you cold find it, that orientation sounds good.. where are you thinking of doing the tefl course? the only ones worthwhile seem to be the ones with teaching practice but of course they are the most expensive ones

i dunno im not too worrried about goin over on my own, i went on erasmus on my own and had an amazing time. ANd there will be loads of english teahcers over there so shouldn't be too hard to meet people..

fcussen

blackalicious wrote: »

i dunno im not too worrried about goin over on my own, i went on erasmus on my own and had an amazing time. ANd there will be loads of english teahcers over there so shouldn't be too hard to meet people..

If you can say this again after your first late paycheque or unpaid overtime, yours is the earth and everything in it...

cloneslad

littlemizz99 wrote:

they give u a weeks orienatation when u get over there and they place u in a school and everything, thing wit them is that I think there only takin people this year who have a TEFL qualification.

blackalicious wrote: »

that orientation sounds good.. where are you thinking of doing the tefl course? the only ones worthwhile seem to be the ones with teaching practice but of course they are the most expensive ones

Although I can't be 100% sure. I would be pretty certain it was not the recruiter who set up the orientation. If your friend is in the public shool system then this would have been set up by smoe / epik for all the new teachers arriving at the start of a school semester (september / march). If your friend was in a private school (hagwon) I would imagine they just arrived a week before the teacher they were replacing had left and this became their orientation period ( a chance to watch some of the current teachers in action and get to know the place)

blackalicious wrote: »

Think the only diff between public and private schools is that u might get paid a bit more in a public school than a private but u get less days off-well that what im told anyway!!

Your information is backwards, private schools (hagwons) pay more than public schools (for the most part anyway, especially with first timers) you will also have better holidays with a public school. Hagwons have more teaching hours (in general) but you will have to be in work less hours than a public school (again in general).

I teach 22 hours a week in my hagwon, I think most public schools now have 21-22 teaching hour weeks for their teachers but they must be on the school grounds from 9:00 to 4:30 or so, I do not have to be in the school when I'm not teaching, although I am expected to have prepared for my classes and I feel it's only right to do this in school so I tend to come in an hour early, prepare for 15 mins and chat to the other teachers for the rest of the time.




Think the only diff between public and private schools is that u might get paid a bit more in a public school than a private but u get less days off-well that what im told anyway!!

cloneslad

fcussen wrote: »

it's also illegal for non-Koreans to own property in South Korea.

This is not true. While it may be difficult for a foreigner to obtain a mortgage through a korean bank especially if he/she is working in the esl industry and on an E2 visa, it is certainly not illegal for a foreigner to own property here. If you have the cash to buy a property you are more than welcome to do so. You can also run a business / own a business here, you can get a visa if you invest approx $50,000 into a company etc etc. do you honestly think korea does not appreciate outside investment?

fcussen wrote: »

Additionally, although it's not necessarily a bad idea to see the schools in person before you work for them, if you were to head to South Korea before you have all the stuff necessary for an E2 Visa, it would require an awkward "Visa Run" to a different country, as you have to have your passport stamped at the airport in order for your visa to be valid, and this requires leaving the country and then coming back..

The advice you are gining here no longer applies to first time E2 visa holders. If you are a first timer you must have an interview at your local korean embassy, so for irish people this will be in Dublin. You can not take a visa run to fukuoka anymore unless you have previously held an E2 visa. The awkward visa run would be very awkward indeed as you would have to fly back to ireland again to process it.

fcussen wrote: »

(another thing, June/July is monsoon season in Korea - the weather is really humid and sticky - it's more pleasantly warm in September)

while it does get humid and sticky in korea throughout july and august (not so much june) you certainly won't see any monsoons to match those of india or south east asia. It's known as rainy season and even at that you prob won't experience much more rain that you would back in Ireland throughout the summer. It will rain heavily, usually at night time every now and again.

fcussen wrote: »

If you can say this again after your first late paycheque or unpaid overtime, yours is the earth and everything in it...

Just because you were shafted by your employer doesn't mean everyone is. In fact you a definitely in the very low percentages of those who have, despite what you read on daves esl.

when offered a job ask to speak to the current and previous teachers in the school to find out what it's like, also google the area the school everything you can. Do as much research as possible before committing. It's along way from home should you come out here and not like where you are. I know I would prefer a crappy work place to a crappy locality. If you boss is a díck but pays you on time then you can have a great time outside of work and just put in the hours at work. If you hapen to end up at a crappy school or a crappy region then you have no one to blame but yourself, you should have carried out sufficient research (in saying that, I did no research the first time I came out here, I just got lucky)


While it's good for someone to provide some honest opinions of korea, fcussen continues to offer only negative ones that applied to him/her.

littlemizz99

Hiya Blackilicoius,
I got my degree last year too and doing an LLB this year. Was thinkin of doin maybe a 100hr tefl thing over the summer as it is meant to help once u get out there in terms of being able to teach a class and gettin paid a litltle more. I dont suppose it would be too hard to meet people and it sounds like a great experience all i no is that I need to get outa here before I crack up-this country is a ball of depression at the moment!!
I looked into the Tiger English place too and it looks good and at least its an irish company!would love to no anyone else who went thru Tiger English and how they found it!!

ARGINITE

littlemizz99 wrote:

Hiya Blackilicoius,
I got my degree last year too and doing an LLB this year. Was thinkin of doin maybe a 100hr tefl thing over the summer as it is meant to help once u get out there in terms of being able to teach a class and gettin paid a litltle more. I dont suppose it would be too hard to meet people and it sounds like a great experience all i no is that I need to get outa here before I crack up-this country is a ball of depression at the moment!!
I looked into the Tiger English place too and it looks good and at least its an irish company!would love to no anyone else who went thru Tiger English and how they found it!!

My girlfriend and I got jobs through Tiger English. We found the company great, very helpful even after we had been in Korea a few months, they were still willing to help us with any problems we had.
I don't know if the TEFL course is really worth it, I didn't do it before I went over but I still found the teaching very easy.

littlemizz99

Thanks for the advice on Tiger English...its really helpful!are u still out in korea or have i finished your year out there?
Any other advice for someone who is really interested in headin out there??

ARGINITE

ARGINITE wrote: »

My girlfriend and I got jobs through Tiger English. We found the company great, very helpful even after we had been in Korea a few months, they were still willing to help us with any problems we had.
I don't know if the TEFL course is really worth it, I didn't do it before I went over but I still found the teaching very easy.

The stuff people do in hogwans and Korean public schools isn't 'teaching' IMO. I'm not saying it's easy or that it doesn't require a lot of patience and motivation, but it has virtually nothing in common with the type of ESL teaching taught on the CELTA course and expected in Europe. You don't need to know your grammar, you don't need to design your own lessons, provide focused error correction and all that. I used to wonder how one earth people could teach in Korea when they didn't know what the present perfect was, or the difference between countable and uncountable nouns, but it's just a whole different thing out there. You could easily do it without having had any type of training. Having done the CELTA course, I don't think it would even help that much with teaching in hogwans. The most important things, from what I saw myself, and from my boyfriend's experience, are being able to work under pressure, having a sense of humour, being good with the kids, being patient and flexible. I don't think a TEFL course is really necessary for Korea.

cloneslad

[quote=[Deleted User];65328161]The stuff people do in hogwans and Korean public schools isn't 'teaching' IMO. I'm not saying it's easy or that it doesn't require a lot of patience and motivation, but it has virtually nothing in common with the type of ESL teaching taught on the CELTA course and expected in Europe. You don't need to know your grammar, you don't need to design your own lessons, provide focused error correction and all that. I used to wonder how one earth people could teach in Korea when they didn't know what the present perfect was, or the difference between countable and uncountable nouns, but it's just a whole different thing out there. You could easily do it without having had any type of training. Having done the CELTA course, I don't think it would even help that much with teaching in hogwans. The most important things, from what I saw myself, and from my boyfriend's experience, are being able to work under pressure, having a sense of humour, being good with the kids, being patient and flexible. I don't think a TEFL course is really necessary for Korea.[/QUOTE]

Taught on the celta course? you were an adult doing that course, what age were your students in korea?

You're talking through your ar*e. Taught on the celta course? you were an adult doing that course, what age were your students in korea? I have taught and continue to teach grammar to all levels from simple present tense on to countable and uncountable (which we teach to the 7 years old students)
and the kindy teachers teach to the 4-5-6 year olds) This past week alone I taught: gerunds and prepositions, to infinitives, to infinitives after adjectives, countable and uncountable, present perfect and present perfect progressive, and tag questions to name a few.

You might not call it teaching like you were taught in your secondary school. We don't spend all day reciting the words of shakespear and reading poems. We work on learning how to structure a sentence correctly and builfing on it.

Yes a sense of humour is needed and giving your students an enjoyable class is all part of the art of being a good teacher. I plan my lessons, I give them activities related to the vocabulary and grammar we have been studying recently (you won't find a game of pictionary or hang man in any of my classes). Perhaps you didn't go to the effort to create decent lesson plans because your boss wasn't keeping an eye on you or you weren't fearful of losing your job like you would be back home, but I know if I am picking up a pay cheque for what I do then I am going to put in the effort, make my classes fun and halp the kids improve while also retaining and attracting more kids to the school to help my boss make a return on his investment (me).

I'm sure livinginkore and some of the other posters on here also teach their students with a bit more of an effort than you felt was necessary to put into your classes.

**************EDIT: I just remembered you never taught here so you can disregard the stuff I said about you not putting in the effort. Oh and the experience you and your boyfriend have of this knowledge you are bestowing on boards is the same experience, you just attended his school for a while. Sign for a good hagwon and you will be a teacher. Sign for the one you watched your boyfriend teaching in and you can be a trained monkey if you want.

fcussen

cloneslad wrote: »

You're talking through your ar*e. Taught on the celta course? you were an adult doing that course, what age were your students in korea? I have taught and continue to teach grammar to all levels from simple present tense on to countable and uncountable (which we teach to the 7 years old students)
and the kindy teachers teach to the 4-5-6 year olds) This past week alone I taught: gerunds and prepositions, to infinitives, to infinitives after adjectives, countable and uncountable, present perfect and present perfect progressive, and tag questions to name a few.

I got in trouble for teaching grammar in my classes, also for not smiling enough. The non-English-speaking director: "that's for the Korean teachers". Apparently there can't be any overlap between what you and your coteacher do.

Of course the classes have to be interesting but how entertaining they are and how much the students like you is the priority, not how effective your teaching methods are.

I second the idea that the work of foreigners in hagwons is not teaching. Anyone who assumes that someone who would open an English language institute and hire native English speakers to work in it must know something about ESL or TEFL theory or even speak English is making a huge mistake.

cloneslad

fcussen wrote: »

I got in trouble for teaching grammar in my classes, also for not smiling enough. The non-English-speaking director: "that's for the Korean teachers". Apparently there can't be any overlap between what you and your coteacher do.

Of course the classes have to be interesting but how entertaining they are and how much the students like you is the priority, not how effective your teaching methods are.

I second the idea that the work of foreigners in hagwons is not teaching. Anyone who assumes that someone who would open an English language institute and hire native English speakers to work in it must know something about ESL or TEFL theory or even speak English is making a huge mistake.

there are six foreign teachers in our school and six koreans who teacher the ele / mid school kids. All of whom speak fluent English, all of whom teach grammar and share responsibilities with one another. It is not a we do / they do school nor are some of the other schools my friends teach in.

You my friend got screwed by your employer, your school sucked and was only after the money. If we have a problem with our kids we discipline them, parents get called and some have been told that they were no longer allowed in the school. Sure Hagwons are a profit seeking business....all businesses seek to make a profit, the difference is, my owner knows that to make a profit he must have happy teachers and to have happy teachers he must provide a happy work environment, this is not done by giving them problematic kids and cheating them out of anything they are owed.

I have never said all hagwons are great, far from it. In fact a guy in my town is being shafted by his employed as I type this. They refuse to allow him to finish his contract, have never paid his tax / insurance or pension (he's American so he would have receved it back in a lump sum) and the are also refuing to pay his flight home and severance.

He has worked at this school for 9 months and he is only complaining now because he won't receives his flight money or severance (they will fire him before he hits month 11 so they are legally entitled to, providing they give enough notice) This guy has had hard luck with his school, he was their first foreign teacher, but it is also his own fault. He knew he wasn't paying tax, pension or insurance, what the hell was he thinking?? If he gos to the labour board over this he will have to pay all his tax, all his insurance and all his pension for the past 9 months (in fairness he will get the pension back plus the employers contributions which should cover the cost of tax / insurance) so this shows that for every bad boss there are equally as stupid employees.

Do enough research, make sure everything is above board upon arrival and don't settle for being screwed over. You wouldn't let a boss do it to you at home, don't let them do it here.

Not all schools are as good as mine, not all were as bad as yours. I have no problem with people complaining about the school they worked it in but to say it is the norm is certainly not correct. A balanced opinion is good, that's why I reply to the bad / negative comments making it seem that their experience is the rule.

fcussen

cloneslad wrote: »

Not all schools are as good as mine, not all were as bad as yours. I have no problem with people complaining about the school they worked it in but to say it is the norm is certainly not correct. A balanced opinion is good, that's why I reply to the bad / negative comments making it seem that their experience is the rule.

It's not the majority of places, but you claimed earlier it was a "low percentage". Forgetting about Dave's ESL, I talked to plenty of other people who were screwed in some way or another. Even another poster on this thread claimed it happened to him twice in his earlier years in Korea.

cloneslad

cloneslad wrote: »

Taught on the celta course? you were an adult doing that course, what age were your students in korea?

I had to read back over my post to understand that comment. You totally misunderstood what I meant. I meant the style of teaching WE were taught to TEACH, not the way the tutors actually taught us, obviously!

You're talking through your ar*e. Taught on the celta course? you were an adult doing that course, what age were your students in korea? I have taught and continue to teach grammar to all levels from simple present tense on to countable and uncountable (which we teach to the 7 years old students)
and the kindy teachers teach to the 4-5-6 year olds) This past week alone I taught: gerunds and prepositions, to infinitives, to infinitives after adjectives, countable and uncountable, present perfect and present perfect progressive, and tag questions to name a few.

What does my age have to do with the age of my students? I've taught adults and children in Ireland in other countries. Your experience in Korea sounds unlike any I've ever heard of. I witnessed classes in several different hagwons over there while I was considering going over myself, and they were all basically the same. Half the people on my CELTA course in Ireland had already taught in Korea, Thailand or Hong Kong and barely knew any grammar.

You might not call it teaching like you were taught in your secondary school. We don't spend all day reciting the words of shakespear and reading poems. We work on learning how to structure a sentence correctly and builfing on it.

Stop being so defensive. I've been teaching ESL for years. I will be starting my DELTA soon, if I don't go to Korea. I've taught in the best schools on the continent and here in London. I don't need you to tell me what it involves.

Yes a sense of humour is needed and giving your students an enjoyable class is all part of the art of being a good teacher. I plan my lessons, I give them activities related to the vocabulary and grammar we have been studying recently (you won't find a game of pictionary or hang man in any of my classes). Perhaps you didn't go to the effort to create decent lesson plans because your boss wasn't keeping an eye on you or you weren't fearful of losing your job like you would be back home, but I know if I am picking up a pay cheque for what I do then I am going to put in the effort, make my classes fun and halp the kids improve while also retaining and attracting more kids to the school to help my boss make a return on his investment (me).

Well of course, that's the least expected of you as a teacher. Are you denying that the majority of hagwons don't give their teachers books to teach from, books which are largely ineffective for anything but memorising vocab? Are you really trying to tell me that every English teacher in Korea has or is required to have a CELTA standard of teaching? Really? My boyfriend has CELTA and he stood out in the school because none of the other teachers had done any type of teaching or training before. And it wasn't a crap school. It was known as one of the better ones.

I'm sure livinginkore and some of the other posters on here also teach their students with a bit more of an effort than you felt was necessary to put into your classes.

Stooping to personal insults. Nice.

**************EDIT: I just remembered you never taught here so you can disregard the stuff I said about you not putting in the effort. Oh and the experience you and your boyfriend have of this knowledge you are bestowing on boards is the same experience, you just attended his school for a while. Sign for a good hagwon and you will be a teacher. Sign for the one you watched your boyfriend teaching in and you can be a trained monkey if you want.

I attended several schools. Even spending a day in each was enough to see what the teaching style is like. I have never seen or heard of any school in Korea which expects its teachers to have a CELTA, or teach to that standard. I've been hearing for years that it's a case of go into the class, speak English, have a laugh with the kids, do stuff from the book and give them homework. That there's entire weeks of 'speaking classes' where they have to recite things parrot fashion. This is pretty much what I witnessed when I went over. Are you really telling me this isn't typical in Korea?

Do you have CELTA or DELTA, out of interest? Have you taught in Ireland or Europe?

spurious

cloneslad, please temper your language in your replies.
There is no need for some of the remarks you are directing at other posters.

livinginkorea

I can see it from both sides. It is true that most people in hagwons are not qualified at all to teach English, especially outside of the major cities. There are a lot of losers and back-packers in Korea who are passing through and sadly give teachers a bad name. However, there are still a considerable amount of teachers who are not qualified but do care enough to be professional, learning new techniques to teach (not activities for students which can be replicated again and again, techniques for the teachers to use in the class).

Izzy if you have taught in the best schools around then why do you want to come to Korea then if the hagwon system has nothing to do with your training from CELTA and not real teaching? To be honest I wouldn't want to do it either if that was the perception around. There are a couple of CELTA courses being held in Korea so obviously the demand is there from employers.

Yes, teaching in Europe and Asia is entire different. You are contrasting between English as a Second Language (in Europe) and English as a Foreign/International Language (in Asia) so the focus is different and the exposure that learners have varies hugely. However, grammar is a huge cornerstone of Koreans middleschool/highschool life. All you have to do is look at any of their textbooks and exams preparing for the Seungnum (Korean SATs) and you will see that it is totally grammar based with a little bit of function squashed in. An immense amount of Grammar Translation Method is still being practiced. The "parrot fashion" is probably drilling, the re-enforcement of the grammatical points being taught and to a lesser extent vocabulary (although teaching one without emphasis on the other is a complete waste of time).

The reason why many schools do not let their foreign instructors teach grammar is because they 1) do not have training in it, 2) do not know enough about it or 3) too hard to present. This is realistic I think with most hagwons, but not with public schools. I taught a lot of grammar in the public schools (two elementary, one middle school) but was told to teach more speaking and play games in hagwons because the grammar was "for the Korean teachers to teach." We mustn't forget that hagwons are businesses so the emphasis on fun and games can be annoying for serious teachers. Again this is not for all hagwons. I have worked in a couple where they were very serious. Avalon and Wave springs to mind as very serious minded hagwons. For every serious one you get about 20 who don't care about teaching and that does also reflect the native-speaker population. The government is also considering allowing Indian teachers to come to Korea and I say why not because they will be qualified with a hell of a lot more experience than your current average teacher.

That's why I keep telling people to get out of hagwons and into public schools / companies / teacher training / universities. Of course there are some problems here as well but they are a lot less than in hagwons. Cloneslad is correct in stating that a balanced opinion is needed. Some places are really bad but most of them are not so let's all keep an open mind. If they were then why are there about 30,000 English teachers here then?

livinginkorea

livinginkorea wrote: »

Izzy if you have taught in the best schools around then why do you want to come to Korea then if the hagwon system has nothing to do with your training from CELTA and not real teaching? To be honest I wouldn't want to do it either if that was the perception around. There are a couple of CELTA courses being held in Korea so obviously the demand is there from employers.

I was simply noting that there is, in my experience, a huge difference. One poster chose to take that as a personal insult. I was simply trying to help and inform the person who asked by saying that I don't think a TEFL cert is required to teach in Korea. I think it's much more important to be flexible, patient, good fun and enthusiastic than to jump through all the CELTA hoops. From what I have seen, it's more important to be nice and fun than to be an excellent teacher, whereas in Europe it's the opposite. On the first day of the CELTA course I did, the tutor asked who had taught in Asia and told those people that what we'd be doing would be completely different. I want to go to Korea because I love Korea, not because I think my teaching experience would be put to better use there than here.

Yes, teaching in Europe and Asia is entire different. You are contrasting between English as a Second Language (in Europe) and English as a Foreign/International Language (in Asia) so the focus is different and the exposure that learners have varies hugely. However, grammar is a huge cornerstone of Koreans middleschool/highschool life. All you have to do is look at any of their textbooks and exams preparing for the Seungnum (Korean SATs) and you will see that it is totally grammar based with a little bit of function squashed in. An immense amount of Grammar Translation Method is still being practiced. The "parrot fashion" is probably drilling, the re-enforcement of the grammatical points being taught and to a lesser extent vocabulary (although teaching one without emphasis on the other is a complete waste of time).

Yes, but the style of teaching is completely different. I don't think the stuff I learned during my CELTA and use over here could be applied in Korea. My boyfriend hardly used any of the techniques he was taught, they wanted him to do it 'their way'.

The reason why many schools do not let their foreign instructors teach grammar is because they 1) do not have training in it, 2) do not know enough about it or 3) too hard to present. This is realistic I think with most hagwons, but not with public schools. I taught a lot of grammar in the public schools (two elementary, one middle school) but was told to teach more speaking and play games in hagwons because the grammar was "for the Korean teachers to teach." We mustn't forget that hagwons are businesses so the emphasis on fun and games can be annoying for serious teachers.

I was really talking about hagwons, and you've pretty much said what I said.

Again this is not for all hagwons. I have worked in a couple where they were very serious. Avalon and Wave springs to mind as very serious minded hagwons. For every serious one you get about 20 who don't care about teaching and that does also reflect the native-speaker population. The government is also considering allowing Indian teachers to come to Korea and I say why not because they will be qualified with a hell of a lot more experience than your current average teacher.

Is that not the point I was making? Is that not the typical situation for Western teachers in Korea?