Is she lying about her fertility?

LolaDub

CDfm wrote: »

I am genuinely sorry for both of them but really is being childless the end of the world if you love the other person.

This is very personal and only the people involved could say how much they wanted or didn't want children in their lives.

I think the deliberate deceit of the wife is just as much an issue, she lied to him before they were married, then lies about feeling infertile and visiting a doctor. She screams and throws tantrums when he tries to talk to her about their marriage and her deceit.

If it were me i think i'd be asking her to leave the house for a while, its her behaviour who has brought them to this

robot001

I have to say , sorry for all that's happening but please keep in mind two things

1) the job loss could be playing a mayor part here

2) Some people actually don't have children or and for the way she is reacting at least, it looks like there is some sort of big issue in her past or something quite close

I d reckon you should heavily advice your brother for counselling as this seem to be a communication issue more than anything else, or even to have a "cleaner" less painful brake

The Sweeper

There doesn't have to be a big issue in the girls past for her not to want children.

It's also not unusual for people not to declare that they don't want kids when they're younger and getting married. Often they feel that they'll probably change their minds in the future and so on, so they don't bring it up and don't fight their corner on it. In some cases, that future change of heart just doesn't happen, and then you end up in the position of the OP's brother and his missus.

The girl's cracked it because suddenly the issue of "kids" isn't "some time in the next few years", it's tomorrow, today, this week, now. Depending on her age, she may have been winding herself up for a while about this lack of a maternal urge. Subsequently, when the brother springs 'Let's try for a baby' on her, the result is a massive backlash.

The girl must feel truly desperate to have lied about her fertility - she really doesn't want kids, and needed a get-out clause. If you're not a childless woman in your early thirties, frankly you've no idea the pressure you come under to get pregnant. I've always been a card-carrying heart-on-sleeve no-kids-please type, and even I come under pressure from people for whom its none of their goddamned business whether or not I have a child. I would go as far as to say it makes me feel like some sort of prize breeding heifer, and I've always been open and public about not wanting children. I can't imagine the stomach-lurching stress that sort of pressure would put on someone who doesn't want kids and hasn't come to terms with the fact that it doesn't make her a bad person.

Support your brother, but let him sort this out himself with his missus. Don't paint her as some sort of lying, cheating whore because she doesn't want children. That's her business, not yours - you won't be pregnant with them, you won't give birth to them, you won't be raising them, if she doesn't want a child it's her call.

Whatever about being in an uncertain relationship where you don't know for sure what you want in your future, the worst thing you can possibly do is bring a child into that environment. Be glad she didn't and leave your brother and her to sort this out without offering your opinons on what sort of person she is.

Sugar Drunk

Its your brothers relationship why are you so involved? Its up to him to sort it out and having you always butting it will make that harder for them to do.

Yes she was lying thats bloody obvious you dont go on the pill after having fertility tests that lasted half an hour!
Sounds to me like maybe the wife went behind the husbands back as he was so dogmatic about wanting kids now cos it suits him. If she doesnt want to get pregnant fair enough its her body. Could be she doesnt want kids right now or it could be she doesnt want kids at all (in which case it may be a deal breaker for him and they break up).

again its none of your business leave them alone to sort out their relationship. I always laugh when some people think its such a huge mystery when someone women dont want to get pregnant or have kids. yeah she should have been honest before being with him 10 years but maybe she didnt realise til now. Or maybe she just wants to wait a while

username123

CDfm wrote: »

If she discussed this with a solicitor or anyone with the most basic knowledge of family law she would be wheeled into the District Court in a few hours and have a barring/protection/safety order against your brother and have him locked out of the house in a few hours.Thats how these things work. If you dont believe me I suggest you check up the Amen website on www.amen.ie and contact their helpline.

On what grounds? It is not so easy as being 'wheeled into the District Court' to get a barring/protection/safety order. I have assisted a number of people who actually were in danger in this process and it is a time consuming process and the person for whom the order is against is entitled to their say also - it is not as simple as 'having someone locked out of the house in a few hours' where there is no prior history of abuse, criminal activity, garda reports etc.... i.e., a real threat.

OP - under Irish Family Law the house is the 'family' home - other posts here have explained the relevance of that.

I do think you should stay out of the situation though - beyond being a shoulder for your brother to lean on. I realise that family drama can involve more than just those at the heart of the drama but the situation needs to be resolved by the people it concerns.

CDfm

username123 wrote: »

On what grounds? It is not so easy as being 'wheeled into the District Court' to get a barring/protection/safety order. I have assisted a number of people who actually were in danger in this process and it is a time consuming process and the person for whom the order is against is entitled to their say also - it is not as simple as 'having someone locked out of the house in a few hours' where there is no prior history of abuse, criminal activity, garda reports etc.... i.e., a real threat.

OP - under Irish Family Law the house is the 'family' home - other posts here have explained the relevance of that.

I do think you should stay out of the situation though - beyond being a shoulder for your brother to lean on. I realise that family drama can involve more than just those at the heart of the drama but the situation needs to be resolved by the people it concerns.

Ah cmon - it is certainly possible for a person to apply for an order on the basis that they are in fear of another person. The orders are granted on an"ex-parte" basis( just the applicant and the judge without a hearing) and can be granted by a Judge in the District Court on the applicants say so.In theory the orders are temporary but I was pointing out the risk to the OP and it is the correct thing to do.

For what its worth - I do think SIL has been dishonest or fraudulent in marrying with no intention of having children and I think the marriage should be annuled if they cant patch things up- ie disolved as if it never existed.

But on a human level if the SIL was my daughter, sister or friend I would have wasted no time in this situation and accompanied her to court as a McKensie friend to obtain whatever safety/protection/protection order was available just on the basis of what was posted here.I would believe that she could be in fear.

This is not because I am on the SILs side but because the situation has escalated and I would be concerned about her.

username123

CDfm wrote: »

Ah cmon - it is cerainly possible for a person to apply for an order on the basis that they are in fear of another person. The orders are granted on an"ex-parte" basis and can be granted by a Judge in the District Court on the applicants say so.

If the SIL was my daughter, sister or friend I would have wasted no time in this situation and accompanied her to court as a McKensie friend to obtain whatever safety/protection/protection order was available just on the basis of what was posted here.

This is not because I am on the SILs side but because the situation has escalated and I would be concerned about her.

I do not disagree with you 'in theory' but from experience I know that in practice it is not so easy. The order can certainly be applied for, but if there is no hard evidence that the person genuinely is in danger its possible a judge just wont grant it.

Maybe I have missed something in the thread but the man in question has not beaten his wife, has no previous history of assault on her, no previous criminal convictions of a nature that may suggest he is violent and a row about her not wanting to have kids leading to a possible marraige break up would not warrant an order. Its quite a serious thing to have an order of this nature taken against you and the court systems should not be used lightly to obtain one unless the person is genuinely in danger of being injured.

Perhaps I have missed the part where the situation has escalated? As far as I can tell the guy is just staying with his sister - no one has been threatened or assaulted?

useful_contacts

Sugar Drunk wrote: »

Its your brothers relationship why are you so involved?




again its none of your business leave them alone to sort out their relationship.

I am involved because he brought me into it, he cried on my shoulder, he wanted me there for support when he confronted her and NOW he is sleeping in my spare room and i hear him crying himself to sleep through the wall every night so IT IS MY BUSINESS!!!

username123

useful_contacts wrote: »

I am involved because he brought me into it, he cried on my shoulder, he wanted me there for support when he confronted her and NOW he is sleeping in my spare room and i hear him crying himself to sleep through the wall every night so IT IS MY BUSINESS!!!

OP - your brother and how he feels is your business. But his relationship is his own business. With the best of intentions it is easy to interfere inappropriately - I think posters are just cautioning you against that.

Its natural you would be annoyed on his behalf. Poor guy, he will get through it, but its a hard time right now.

iguana

useful_contacts wrote: »

I am involved because he brought me into it, he cried on my shoulder, he wanted me there for support when he confronted her and NOW he is sleeping in my spare room and i hear him crying himself to sleep through the wall every night so IT IS MY BUSINESS!!!

It still isn't your business. Your job is to support him but not to get involved in his marriage. You should never have gone with him to confront his wife. Your intentions were good, but your presence would have escalated the situation. If I was going through a rough time with my husband and he brought his sister along to confront me I would have a hard time not physically throwing her out of my house, and him too. I could most certainly say things I never meant to.

You need to stay out of it. You care for your brother and are trying to help but I can say without doubt that you are making things worse. Sorry, but a marriage is between two people and neither of those people is you. This is for them, and them only to work out. Be there for your brother, listen to him when he needs you, but don't tell him what to do, and don't get between him and his wife. If for no other reason than if he and his wife work things out your relationship with them will be very badly damaged.

Peewee_lane

Look, its none of your business whether or not it is his business? The personal issue has been raised because of an issue a family member has and people disputing whether or not he is entitled to raise it is, im my opinion, completely unfair.

Not all of us live in a soap drama and not all of know what to do when things like this can disrupt our lives, so I applaud the OP for coming on and asking what the hell he should do to support his bro.

I hate the way people on boards like to attack rather than advise... :rolleyes:

iguana

Peewee_lane wrote: »

Look, its none of your business whether or not it is his business? The personal issue has been raised because of an issue a family member has and people disputing whether or not he is entitled to raise it is, im my opinion, completely unfair.

Not all of us live in a soap drama and not all of know what to do when things like this can disrupt our lives, so I applaud the OP for coming on and asking what the hell he should do to support his bro.

I hate the way people on boards like to attack rather than advise... :rolleyes:

I hate the way people can't even read through the threads they comment on. The OP is a woman, it's been made clear repeatedly on this thread.

Coming online and asking for advice on how to proceed is fine. But the number one way she can proceed is to be there for her brother without interfering in his marriage. Accompanying her brother while he confronted his wife has undoubtedly made things worse. The advice she is getting, because it is the best advice there is in this situation, is to stay out of it. That is advice not criticism, she just doesn't like it.

CDfm

username123 wrote: »

I do not disagree with you 'in theory' but from experience I know that in practice it is not so easy. The order can certainly be applied for, but if there is no hard evidence that the person genuinely is in danger its possible a judge just wont grant it.

Maybe I have missed something in the thread but the man in question has not beaten his wife, has no previous history of assault on her, no previous criminal convictions of a nature that may suggest he is violent

Perhaps I have missed the part where the situation has escalated? As far as I can tell the guy is just staying with his sister

On several grounds I have to disagree strongly & I have experience of it too. Assault and battery need not have occured but the Judge just has to believe the applicant is in fear that it might occur. Fear is grounds for an application and 3 against one could do this as could the fear of pregnancy.

In practice - it would have every likelyhood of suceeding. It has escalated and its a very emotionally charged situation. A judge would probably take the view that he could live with his sister at least until things calmed down.

So OP I think this is certainly time to back down -apologise if you have to - and keep your nose out of it as its not your life.Its private and whatever has happened you should keep that way absolutely and not a word to anyone not directly involved - relatives or friends - nobody.

CDfm

useful_contacts wrote: »

Could you elaborate??




The house is in his name, he was left it by our grandad a few years ago she has no say in the house

Here is a link on the family home.

Its worth a read - and while I dont think the OP should involve herself -its a useful synopsis.

http://www.diydivorceireland.com/FamilyHome.htm

cantdecide

There are a lot of people here who think that boards is only a place from which to be directed elsewhere. The OP has a dilemma, he's quite entitled to seek advice and a gentle 'stay at arms length' is a legitimate addition but the waggy-fingered open hostility he has received is not, IMO.

The OP is quite entitled to ask for an answer to his question in relation to how he should feel about his role as a confidant in the issue and what he can do to support his brother. The question was actually along the lines of- 'I'm not crazy am i ?' A perfectly legitimate question IMO.

Should we really advise the OP to tell his brother to 'leave me alone- it's nothing to do with me'??

Wibbs

cantdecide wrote: »

Should we really advise the OP to tell his brother to 'leave me alone- it's nothing to do with me'??

I agree with your post. The only thing I would advise is caution regarding getting too involved at the moment. That would be my worry. Support yes, no doubt. Advise even, but pushing one way or the other or worse demonising the wife would be unwise IMHO.

paperclip2

Hi OP,

I'm really sorry to hear whats happened to your brother, I can only imagine the pain he's going through right now. Sadly there is very little middle ground in something like this, one side has to come to an acceptance of the others point of view or else both walk away.

It's a good thing that your brother has you on his side through this, he's going to need that support from you whatever the outcome.
I do think, though, that its a good idea to try and keep your own feelings about his wife out of it. You might think she's a scheming cow and you might feel like booting her to kingdom come (with reason given her deceit towards your brother) but try not to badmouth her. It could seem unlikely now but they might salvage this relationship and if they do then you could find yourself cast as the bad guy.
If they don't then your brother has a lot of hard, hard choices to make and he has to be sure they are really his choices and haven't been unduly influenced by how anyone else feels about his wife or the situation. When someone is low and lost it can be very tempting to abdicate responsibility for making a decision in favour of adopting somone elses point of view. The problem is that sometimes down the road, when we feel better, we realise that it wasn't really our choice.

Continue to be there for your brother, hold his hand, sit up with him at 3am, listen to his rants, make him cups of tea and swallow your own anger at this woman who has hurt him so for now. When the dust settles and he's in a better place then talk about what you really think of whats gone on. Yes it is hard so don't forget to take care of yourself in this too. One of the hardest things is to care for someone we love who is in pain. It takes a toll on us and often we neglect that side which causes its own problems.

Take care of your brother and yourself OP.

Gyalist

useful_contacts wrote: »

I am involved because he brought me into it, he cried on my shoulder, he wanted me there for support when he confronted her and NOW he is sleeping in my spare room and i hear him crying himself to sleep through the wall every night so IT IS MY BUSINESS!!!

It's one thing to give advice and support to your brother but to get directly involved in confronting his wife is totally out of order.

If the facts are as you previously outlined, then your sister in law is clearly lying and your brother has serious decisions to make. Your brother needs to stop crying and falling apart and "man up".

Maybe he should do some research on tribadism as, IMHO, there are two pussies in the marriage anyway.

Victor

Gyalist wrote: »

Maybe he should do some research on tribadism as, IMHO, there are two pussies in the marriage anyway.

Keep it constructive.

Toots

As others have said you need to be careful how you play this one. Be there for your brother, be a shoulder to cry on, support him and let him know that you're there for him as long as it takes. However you need to be as objective as possible. Don't advise him on what decision to make either way, whatever he decides, he needs to decide it on his own. I think at this stage it would be a good idea for him to seek some sort of counselling, which may help him put his thoughts in order.