Church Design

toiletduck

Hey all. Recently I got wondering about the architecture of churches. What I would like to know is if a new church is being decided upon, who designs it? In the case of the RC do they have their own architects or supervisors to lay ones? Is there any "must haves" which must be adhered to? Also curious at how other denominations handle it.

Fanny Cradock

toiletduck wrote: »

Hey all. Recently I got wondering about the architecture of churches. What I would like to know is if a new church is being decided upon, who designs it? In the case of the RC do they have their own architects or supervisors to lay ones? Is there any "must haves" which must be adhered to? Also curious at how other denominations handle it.

From Evangelical and Pentecostal perspectives, I think you will find that many new churches now operate from non-traditional buildings such as cinemas, town halls, hotel function rooms - you name it. I would doubt if there are many - if any - new traditional churches church buildings being constructed in Europe. This is because Europe is arguably in a post-Christian phase and there really is not the demand or requirement for any new grand structures when others lie empty.

BrianCalgary

Here in Calgary we have had two new churches built within the last 10 years in my neighbourhood. Our church is also on a capital campaign.

The two recent ones were a Christian and Missionary Alliance church which was built to be a facility that could be used during the week. There are concerts that happen in it from time to time. High Schools will have their year end concerts in it. It is also used for conferences with video links. It has a gym, library, meeting rooms, etc, etc.

The other was a Catholic church which was built in the tradition manner. It is in the shape of a cross, it has 12? pillars, one for each apostle (feel free to correct me on the symbolism, the priest did give my Sunday School class a tour a few years ago). Th eroof is the shape of a ships hull, Noah's Ark. There are four of something to represent the gospels. The baptismal tank was supposed to be three step, Father, Son and Holy Spirit but local building code for the depth of the pool required 4 steps.

I hope that helps.

homer911

Most modern purpose built churches tend to opt for function over form - main reason is cost of build and cost of maintenance - no church these days wants to become a listed building which can cost a fortune to maintain - I also think the authorities can get stroppy over internal layout.

Case in point is the "Pepper Canister" church in Dublin - In the news today looking for 100k to stop the famous dome collapsing


Separate point - A Catholic Church with a Baptismal Tank - thats the first I've heard of!

santing

toiletduck wrote: »

What I would like to know is if a new church is being decided upon, who designs it?

I think most denominations realise that the church are the people, not the building. That leaves lots of freedom for the building.

BrianCalgary

homer911 wrote: »

Separate point - A Catholic Church with a Baptismal Tank - thats the first I've heard of!

Me too actually. I had only ever seen founts used for sprinkling. The priest of this particular church is quite a guy. If all priests had his heart.

PDN

We recently designed a new church building and got it through planning permission (an ordeal in itself). Now all we are waiting for is for the credit crunch to finish so we can work out the financing!

Myself and a couple of other leaders wandered round Dublin for a day looking at buildings we liked (shopping centres, office blocks etc.). Then we compared notes and decided which architects were on our wavelength. Then we went to see them and gave them our specifications (a big industrial-style building that doesn't look churchy, enough classrooms and offices for our needs, and separate space for a prayer centre and a cafe). They came up with a really nice design.

The big problem was car parking. Local councils have strict rules about parking space/seat ratios, and we had to fit 210 parking spaces + the buildings onto a 2 acre site. Therefore we had to include a multi-story carpark - which jacks up our costs considerably.

Our current building, on the same site, is an old warehouse. It was 4 units but we took sledhammers to the dividing walls to make one big space and stuck in a suspended ceiling.

Húrin

PDN wrote: »

The big problem was car parking. Local councils have strict rules about parking space/seat ratios, and we had to fit 210 parking spaces + the buildings onto a 2 acre site. Therefore we had to include a multi-story carpark - which jacks up our costs considerably.

Why do you need so much car parking space? This isn't America.

PDN

Húrin wrote: »

Why do you need so much car parking space? This isn't America.

Apparently our Borough Council insists on you having 1 parking space for every 6 seats. We tried negotiating on it but there was no flexibility at all. They also made us spend a fortune carrying out traffic surveys. We had to employ a company to put video cameras up on lamp-posts etc.

Puck

PDN wrote: »

Apparently our Borough Council insists on you having 1 parking space for every 6 seats. We tried negotiating on it but there was no flexibility at all. They also made us spend a fortune carrying out traffic surveys. We had to employ a company to put video cameras up on lamp-posts etc.

I wonder could you get around it by having pews (technically one long seat).

Húrin

PDN wrote: »

Apparently our Borough Council insists on you having 1 parking space for every 6 seats. We tried negotiating on it but there was no flexibility at all. They also made us spend a fortune carrying out traffic surveys. We had to employ a company to put video cameras up on lamp-posts etc.

Insane! Is this somewhere in Louth?

Michael G

santing wrote: »

I think most denominations realise that the church are the people, not the building. That leaves lots of freedom for the building.

Catholics used to know that churches were for the worship of God, not one another, so our churches were built to focus on the sanctuary within which the priest led us in the Mass. However for the last 30 years, thanks to what Desmond Guinness (or was it the Knight of Glin, Desmond FitzGerald?) magnificently called "ignorant and vainglorious parish priests", we have built oversized bungalows which effectively sideline anything numinous and encourage the mistaken idea that, as you put it, "the church are the people". Some years ago we managed to stop Bishop Magee from turning Cobh's Pugin Cathedral into a hairdresser's sitting-room, and I hope that many churches still have their altar rails somewhere in storage so that they can be recovered for the restoration. What our churches went through in the 1970s was not that different from the time of Cromwell or the iconoclasts under Edward VI.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

Catholics used to know that churches were for the worship of God, not one another, so our churches were built to focus on the sanctuary within which the priest led us in the Mass. However for the last 30 years, thanks to what Desmond Guinness (or was it the Knight of Glin, Desmond FitzGerald?) magnificently called "ignorant and vainglorious parish priests", we have built oversized bungalows which effectively sideline anything numinous and encourage the mistaken idea that, as you put it, "the church are the people". Some years ago we managed to stop Bishop Magee from turning Cobh's Pugin Cathedral into a hairdresser's sitting-room, and I hope that many churches still have their altar rails somewhere in storage so that they can be recovered for the restoration. What our churches went through in the 1970s was not that different from the time of Cromwell or the iconoclasts under Edward VI.

Talk about missing the point! The lords meal itself was in a humble upstairs room. Maybe you need to look at the NT a little more carefully. I don't recall the call for building God a 'sanctuary'. I'm all for not doing things by halves, but its ridiculous when Christians get hung up on the buildings they worship in. Sure, I can see that there is a long tradition in Catholocism for nice church buildings, and people like nice buildings. However, thats all it is, a building! It 'is' the people that make the church!

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

Talk about missing the point! The lords meal itself was in a humble upstairs room. Maybe you need to look at the NT a little more carefully. I don't recall the call for building God a 'sanctuary'.

The room can be as humble as you like. The chapel where I go to Mass is a Barna pre-fab and you can see it at http://www.faithapostolate.ie/html/the_traditional_mass_in_wexfor.html. The point about it is that God is the focus; neither the congregation nor the priest, who should be unnoticed, as a man, as far as possible. That is one of the reasons why he leads the congregation and we all face the altar.

sorella

That link says "forbidden"...

Michael G wrote: »

The room can be as humble as you like. The chapel where I go to Mass is a Barna pre-fab and you can see it at http://www.faithapostolate.ie/html/the_traditional_mass_in_wexfor.html. The point about it is that God is the focus; neither the congregation nor the priest, who should be unnoticed, as a man, as far as possible. That is one of the reasons why he leads the congregation and we all face the altar.

Puck

Michael G wrote: »

The room can be as humble as you like. The chapel where I go to Mass is a Barna pre-fab and you can see it at http://www.faithapostolate.ie/html/the_traditional_mass_in_wexfor.html. The point about it is that God is the focus; neither the congregation nor the priest, who should be unnoticed, as a man, as far as possible. That is one of the reasons why he leads the congregation and we all face the altar.

Fixed that link for you Michael.

Michael G

Thank you. I would be interested to know what the problem was.

PDN

sorella wrote: »

That link says "forbidden"...

It said a lot more than "forbidden"! There was a load of stuff about Jew-haters and right-wingers. :eek:

Puck

Michael G wrote: »

Thank you. I would be interested to know what the problem was.

Looks like you accidentally pasted some text in instead of the actual URL. Either that or boards is still a bit buggy since the last upgrade, but I'd say it's the first one.

toiletduck

Cheers guys, interesting stuff.

Michael G

PDN wrote: »

It said a lot more than "forbidden"! There was a load of stuff about Jew-haters and right-wingers. :eek:

That was text from another forum and part of a comment I was making about a particular faction within the Society of St Pius X and their followers. As Puck says, I must have pasted text along with the URL. Apologies.

Excelsior

I work for a Presbyterian church and we're hoping to put together a Scandinavian style prefab worship space that will be designed with wider community in use in mind.

This building is probably a temporary home but when the time comes, you'll be damned sure I'll be lobbying the elders to squander vast amounts of money on getting Tadao Ando to take on the challenge of surpassing even his Church Of Light.

sorella

Why the cost? Just asking:)

PDN

Excelsior wrote: »

I work for a Presbyterian church and we're hoping to put together a Scandinavian style prefab worship space that will be designed with wider community in use in mind.

This building is probably a temporary home but when the time comes, you'll be damned sure I'll be lobbying the elders to squander vast amounts of money on getting Tadao Ando to take on the challenge of surpassing even his Church Of Light.

A bit too stark for my tastes, I must admit, but as a work of art it is impressive. Would you really want to worship week after week in such an environment?

Have you ever seen the Temppeliaukio Kirkko in Helsinki? It's well worth a visit: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/finland/helsinki-rock-church-temppeliaukio.htm

Why the cost? Just asking

I've heard people ask this a few times (our building project is costing a few million). To me, a church building is a place where generations of Christians will meet together for worship and also as a community. Therefore it makes sense to provide an aesthetically pleasing environment. This is the same principle as when a town council provides or maintains pleasant parks and public spaces.

Also, I believe that the Church has a role to play in encouraging art that glorifies God. This applies to music, theatre and architecture.

sorella

Depends what you mean by worship.... It is breathtaking.

On the other point we will have to agree to differ. I see the glory of God as a world where no child dies of starvation or for lack of medical care. which is well within our means. If we give that love for God priority.

Not the costly buildings. They came come later.

The early Church met in houses after all and many do today.

PDN wrote: »

A bit too stark for my tastes, I must admit, but as a work of art it is impressive. Would you really want to worship week after week in such an environment?

Have you ever seen the Temppeliaukio Kirkko in Helsinki? It's well worth a visit: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/finland/helsinki-rock-church-temppeliaukio.htm




I've heard people ask this a few times (our building project is costing a few million). To me, a church building is a place where generations of Christians will meet together for worship and also as a community. Therefore it makes sense to provide an aesthetically pleasing environment. This is the same principle as when a town council provides or maintains pleasant parks and public spaces.

Also, I believe that the Church has a role to play in encouraging art that glorifies God. This applies to music, theatre and architecture.