Biggest Flop Signing Of The Season So Far

Frisbee

noodler wrote: »

Meh. Two goals against UTD are pretty much clouding your judgements of Nasri.

To proclaim Keane a flop and then argue Nasri doesn't even fall into consideration as a disappointing signing is a bit rich tho.

I really dont see how you can call Nasri a flop.
He scored the winner on the first game of the season.
He scored on his Champions League Debut.
He scored the winning brace against United.
All of this while adapting to the Premiership and struggling with a niggly knee injury.

I really cannot see how you can consider Nasri as a flop.
He hasn't set thw world on fire, but he hasn't been a flop, one of our better performers.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

Ah blindly boasting about Nasri exceeding your expectations? For 12m is 5 goals all you were expecting? I have seen Arsenal play often enough to notice his ability to go missing in games.

I wasn't even expecting that for a MIDFIELDER, do you get it yet? He's a midfielder not a striker! Generally, I don't expect any player to make a big impact coming into a new league, no matter how good they are. There are players who have done so, but it can't be expected. With Keanes contribution over the last few season with Spurs coupled with the fact that he has already played in the Premier League, a lot more would have been expected of him!

noodler wrote: »

Ah blindly boasting about Nasri exceeding your expectations? For 12m is 5 goals all you were expecting? I have seen Arsenal play often enough to notice his ability to go missing in games.

Keane has seven goals, Nasri has 5. Nasri has more assists but that is expected for a midfielder. Don't hide behind his age, Keane still had to face coming to a new club as well with brand new teammates and a manager that could drive any player insane.

Now if you want to go around the path of "Nasri contributes so much more than his stats show" route then go right ahead. People have been harking about Keane's workrate for most of the season.

No, Keane has more assists, but you clearly can't just look at stats to see what a player has contributed. I'm not hiding behind age. At 21, Nasri has stepped right into the Arsenal first team and is selected when fit, whereas Keane hasn't...not even nearly (yes Benitez has been harsh, but I'm sure Keane would start all the time if he had the impact Rafa expected him to).

noodler wrote: »

If Keane gets mentioned as a possible candidate for flop of the season then Nasri wouldn't be very far behind. Fact is though, there are any number of better candidates. Jo being an ideal one.

Keane is rightly one of the contenders for flop of the season as he hasn't made a big enough impact, doesn't play regularly and cost far too much whereas (as I have said already) Nasri is now a first team regular at Arsenal and in his first season in a new country has played very well on a regular basis an even won some important games for us.

eZe^

noodler wrote: »

Meh. Two goals against UTD are pretty much clouding your judgements of Nasri.

To proclaim Keane a flop and then argue Nasri doesn't even fall into consideration as a disappointing signing is a bit rich tho.

Laughable. Nasri is 21, coming from Marseille, a Ligue 1 team where he scored 11 goals in 121 games. Arsenal signed him to be a future star that would be integrated straight away, not an established player who needed to step up the plate straight away. Still, he has scored 5 goals in 17 appearances for Arsenal, a MUCH better return than he had at Marseille. Pretty excellent for a youngster in his debut season moving from France to England.

Infact, I'd go as far as to say he has been one of the best debutants in the PL this season.

Robbie Keane has been playing in this league for most of his professional career, he has seen the ins and outs, Liverpool signed him to be an instant injection of experience and goals. He has performed worse than Nasri, the 21 year old EPL debutant.

To say both players have been as disappointing as eachother is pretty funny.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Keane hasn't been a flop. Oh Jesus H Christ.

We paid too much for him no doubt but he has contributed loads.

One poster gave a pretty weak list of reasons as to why Nasri isn't a flop, I could do a similar one for Keane.

Scored on his hom CL Debut against PSV.
Set up the crucial opening goal in the Mersetside Derby.
Match-winning performance and goals against West Brom.
Crucial assist for Gerrard in the Boro win.
Absolutely crucial (and brilliant) goal against Arsenal.
Match winning display and goals against Bolton.
Important goal away to Athletico Madrid.
Excellent assist for N'Gog away to PSV.


This is all at a pinch by the way, a bit more research could defo bring up more. Add to this the fact Rafa has played him irratically and Torres has missed much of the season and I feel you find FLOP is a very harsh word.

God we have a propensity to single out the players from the big teams. Surely there are players who signed for their clubs and contributed a helluva lot less than the above.

Thats for Frisbee. I think my list is better.

Jason. Nasri isn't a central midifelder clearly. He is a creative player with license to roam, 5 goals (albeit important ones) isn't much to ask is it?
According to Wiki Nasri has 8 assists. I can only think of 3 Keane ones. I doubt he has another 5 I don't know about in fairness.

Your point about him walking into Arsenal's first team is a bit moot. Obviously the Arsenal squad is much smaller in depth than the Liverpool one whilst at times Rafa has dropped Keane for pretty inexplicable reasons. Rafa certainly rotates more than Wenger, especially this season where Wenger has had his hand forced a little more than usual with injuries.


EZE. Ignore everyone's expectations for a moment. So Nasri has had problems with his youth and adapting to the English game? What about Keane's problems playing for a team where he can be in or out of the squad/team irregardless of form? Similarly if you were a creative player, which team would you think you would look better in during your first season?
Easy answer.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

Meh. Two goals against UTD are pretty much clouding your judgements of Nasri.

To proclaim Keane a flop and then argue Nasri doesn't even fall into consideration as a disappointing signing is a bit rich tho.

he's been injured a little, but when he's played he's done fine. as eze says he's come to a new league. imo he has performed admirably, even more than admirably.

if you were really pushing it you could claim there are perhaps things he could've done better. but you could say that for an awful lot of players, 99% of players in fact. you certainly couldn't label him anywhere near a flop.

you're on very shaky ground with this argument i'm afraid

Frisbee

Your logic is literally mind boggling.
I've never encountered someone so blinkered by facts.
Using their own facts as gospel and brushing of the facts of those who oppose you as hearsay and not viable.

noodler

You produced a list of Nasri's contributions, I did the same with Keane.

Is it mind-boggling that Keane has actually contributed more than the average armchair fan realised?

Mind-boggling that the average fan probably just based their opinions on a media saying he will be sold or the a bad performance in a live game or two?

I didn't brush away your list, its all true. Were you surprised to see the amount of positives I could get on Keane's?

There is little to debate on the fact that Arsenal's stlye of play and management would have been more beneficial to Keane than that of Rafa's. Both players have had obstacles.

eZe^

noodler wrote: »

EZE. Ignore everyone's expectations for a moment. So Nasri has had problems with his youth and adapting to the English game? What about Keane's problems playing for a team where he can be in or out of the squad/team irregardless of form? Similarly if you were a creative player, which team would you think you would look better in during your first season?
Easy answer.

The team that was top for the majority of the season thus far and is level on points at the top of the league more than likely. At the start Keane was dropped due to being terrible, can't have any qualms with that really.

Anyway where did I say Nasri has had problems with his youth? I said it would have been expected and acceptable for him to encounter some integration issues considering his circumstances. Actually, the fact that Keane has had serious issues integrating, and Nasri has adapted quite well would be another factor contributing to Keane being a much much larger flop than Nasri.

However, Keane was a signing that was purchased for experience and grit, he was a player that was expected to be those extra 6/7 points at the end of season that could make the difference. Nasri was the young promising player that may be the fulcrum of the team in a few years time.

Frisbee

I really don't know how you can call Nasri a flop.
eZe^ nailed it.

Keane was brought in for an immediate impact in a league he's proven himself in.
Nasri was brought in as a leading star for the future.

Nasri is still having a much better season than Keane.

I would say Nasri is one of this season's better signing's

noodler

eZe^ wrote: »

The team that was top for the majority of the season thus far and is level on points at the top of the league more than likely. At the start Keane was dropped due to being terrible, can't have any qualms with that really.

Anyway where did I say Nasri has had problems with his youth? I said it would have been expected and acceptable for him to encounter some integration issues considering his circumstances. Actually, the fact that Keane has had serious issues integrating, and Nasri has adapted quite well would be another factor contributing to Keane being a much much larger flop than Nasri.

However, Keane was a signing that was purchased for experience and grit, he was a player that was expected to be those extra 6/7 points at the end of season that could make the difference. Nasri was the young promising player that may be the fulcrum of the team in a few years time.

Come off it, are you really saying Keane has benefited from Liverpool's style of play? I haven't used the "Liverpool were top for so long so Keane must be doing something right" argument so don't say that Keane will have benefited from our sporadic displays this season just because we are top. We all know there is little cohesion in Liverpool's attack if Torres or Gerrard are having off days.

7 points is actually exactly what I attribute to Keane's contribution League-wise so far. 2 goals in a 3-0 over West Brom and 2 more in a 3-0 win over Bolton. Then another goal in the 1-1 at Arsenal. 7 points.

Again we are all arguing for Nasri based on his future potential-I think actual achievements this season is a better barometer.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

Your point about him walking into Arsenal's first team is a bit moot. Obviously the Arsenal squad is much smaller in depth than the Liverpool one whilst at times Rafa has dropped Keane for pretty inexplicable reasons. Rafa certainly rotates more than Wenger, especially this season where Wenger has had his hand forced a little more than usual with injuries.

It's no moot point, Nasri had as much competition for his place as Keane has had for his!!!

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

7 1 points is actually exactly what I attribute to Keane's contribution League-wise so far actually. 2 goals in a 3-0 over West Brom and 2 more in a 3-0 win over Bolton. Then another goal in the 1-1 at Arsenal. 7 1 points.

Fixed that!

noodler

Torres, Gerrard, Babel, Riera, Lucas, N'Gog, Benayoun, Kuyt.

You see? Thats the madness of Rafa, alot of these players have been used instead of Keane, obviously with a edited formation but Keane's place nonetheless.

I don't understand your other post?
In the West Brom game, the 3rd goal came in stoppage time from Arbeloa.
Keane scored another two in the Bolton game.

On what grounds are you arguing that he didn't play a major role in those 6 points?

Frisbee

noodler wrote: »

We all know there is little cohesion in Liverpool's attack if Torres or Gerrard are having off days.

And that's why Keane was bought for. To add the experience necessary to grind out the win.

noodler wrote: »

Again we are all arguing for Nasri based on his future potential-I think actual achievements this season is a better barometer.

As do I.
Nasri is still the better performer this year

Jazzy

Keane is, obviously.

Jo comes second

SlickRic

Jazzy wrote: »

Keane is, obviously.

get off the bandwagon.

there's been FAR worse.

Frisbee

SlickRic wrote: »

get off the bandwagon.

there's been FAR worse.

Jo is the only person ahead of Keane in the flop stakes, and then not by much.

ibh

Diego Tristan. WH's best striker is out for the season, and this guy still can't get a game..

SlickRic

Frisbee wrote: »

Jo is the only person ahead of Keane in the flop stakes, and then not by much.

so dossena, bentley, silvestre, modric, kitson, tristan to name a few off the top of my head have been better?

sorry i'm not buying it. keane's been not great but not near the worst.

spockety

Boggles wrote: »

Would you prefer the title was changed to "Apart From Robbie Keane...Who is the biggest flop of the season."

No, I'd probably prefer if it was set to "Let's bash Robbie Keane under the guise of a more general thread title"

Not everyone said Keane, get over yourself for half an hour Spockety, the world is not after you.

Attack the post not the poster, please.

I never said the world was after me. I said that before I even opened the thread I knew from the title that it would be a hatchet job on Robbie Keane disguised as a more general discussion. I was right I reckon. Boo hoo, etc.

Silver-Tiger

SlickRic wrote: »

modric,

Really, I've seen a lot of him this season and bar the annoying injury setbacks i think he is a lovely footballer, great to watch on the ball and has a huge future in the prem.

I wouldnt have him near flop of the season at all IMO

Frisbee

SlickRic wrote: »

so dossena, bentley, silvestre, modric, kitson, tristan to name a few off the top of my head have been better?

Alot of them are flops yeah.
Jo and Keane have been the biggest though

noodler

Modric has been pretty poor alright.

Biggest flop? How much did he cost?

In fairness I still think there are worse.

Hows Deco been since the opening few games of the season for example?

Jazzy

SlickRic wrote: »

get off the bandwagon.

there's been FAR worse.

eh, im not on no band wagon. this is my first time reading / posting on this thread. i am capable of making up my own mind and for me, keane has been terrible. im a liverpool fan btw so its not like i want him to be awful.


for £20m i expected a lot more. you can argue "systems" and position all you want but hes done f-all to justify his price tag.
as was said he had a good patch, then was dropped for 2 games. sure, not his fault but still a flop

SlickRic

Silver-Tiger wrote: »

Really, I've seen a lot of him this season and bar the annoying injury setbacks i think he is a lovely footballer, great to watch on the ball and has a huge future in the prem.

I wouldnt have him near flop of the season at all IMO

i'll pull back on modric a bit, iv not seen a whole lot of him. everyone says he's a great footballer but iv never seen that he's had a huge impact yet.

but i'll assume u know more having seen him.

i stand by the rest!

SlickRic

Jazzy wrote: »

eh, im not on no band wagon. this is my first time reading / posting on this thread. i am capable of making up my own mind and for me, keane has been terrible. im a liverpool fan btw so its not like i want him to be awful.


for £20m i expected a lot more. you can argue "systems" and position all you want but hes done f-all to justify his price tag.
as was said he had a good patch, then was dropped for 2 games. sure, not his fault but still a flop

i too expected more, don't get me wrong. he's nowhere near the biggest flop though. he's just the easy, high profile target. as iv said there's been FAR worse.

and the system, position and handling of him by rafa arguments are valid. They don't excuse him completely, not by any stretch, but they've had a bearing.

Frisbee

spockety wrote: »

No, I'd probably prefer if it was set to "Let's bash Robbie Keane under the guise of a more general thread title"

The question was who was the biggest flop.
Most people felt Keane.
And now people are getting uppity about it because the majority went with Keane.

SlickRic

Frisbee wrote: »

The question was who was the biggest flop.
Most people felt Keane.
And now people are getting uppity about it because the majority went with Keane.

people aren't getting uppity, they're arguing as to why they see he's not the biggest flop.

as i say...easy target.

Jazzy

SlickRic wrote: »

i too expected more, don't get me wrong. he's nowhere near the biggest flop though. he's just the easy, high profile target. as iv said there's been FAR worse.

the amount of money spent on him justifies it for me. if you cost £20m, you have been playing and scoring in the same league against the same teams for years and you are passionate about the team you are playing for and you are still not getting your game and there are still big question marks over your future then yeah, tis a flop... a lemon even. lemon flavoured lucozade - robbies favorite

Bounty Hunter

As far as Villa are concerned its def Shorey I mean our only other LB is injured all season and he cant even get his game.

Jo imo has been the one that has shown the least and i expect the least from (whether he has been given enough chances to prove himself/adapt yet i dunno)now as I expect Keane, Shorey, Bentley etc to improve or move and improve. Im very happy Villa got Milner over Bentley during the summer and for 5m cheaper too, still wouldent 100% say Milner is better but id def prefer James over Bentley atm.

spiderdan

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

As far as Villa are concerned its def Shorey I mean our only other LB is injured all season and he cant even get his game.

Jo imo has been the one that has shown the least and i expect the least from (whether he has been given enough chances to prove himself/adapt yet i dunno)now as I expect Keane, Shorey, Bentley etc to improve or move and improve. Im very happy Villa got Milner over Bentley during the summer and for 5m cheaper too, still wouldent 100% say Milner is better but id def prefer James over Bentley atm.

+1

Frisbee

SlickRic wrote: »

as i say...easy target.

Wanna know why he's an easy target?















because he's been the biggest flop

Bentley has been very disappointing.

Unearthly

SlickRic wrote: »

people aren't getting uppity, they're arguing as to why they see he's not the biggest flop.

as i say...easy target.

but when it comes to judging who is the biggest flop you have to look at the price he went for, cause that's how much the club gambled and invested in the player to be a success.

Take Veron for example, put in some great performances here and there(especially in Europe) but the overall picture is that he was a big flop, bigger flop than Djemba Djemba who only cost a fraction of Veron.

That's why I would single out the likes of Jo, Keane and Bentley as the big flops so far, but as people already said, there is still time for them to be a success.

SlickRic

Frisbee wrote: »

Wanna know why he's an easy target?




because he's been the biggest flop

he's not even the biggest flop at liverpool.

i'm tired of arguing though, everyone's entitled to their opinion. i just believe there are clearly at least 5or6 players who are far more deserving of the 'biggest flop of the season so far' honour. if you don't that's cool.

but he's not an easy target because he's merely 'the biggest flop', it's because he's at a big club, thus there's more attention. he shouldn't have as many votes in this thread as he does, sorry.

Jo and Bentley surely blow him out of the water on that one.

JPA

It has to be Bentley. That goal against Arsenal is the ONLY thing he has done all season. And for big money as well.
At least Jo didn't have much of a reputation to start with, Bentley was hyped up, mostly by himself.

Mr.Nice Guy

I would say Bentley too.

Helix

aye bentley has been utter turd

i remember getting slated for saying id much rather the more intelligent, grounded, hard working and all round more professional jimmy milner at villa than david bentley

SlickRic

Helix wrote: »

aye bentley has been utter turd

i remember getting slated for saying id much rather the more intelligent, grounded, hard working and all round more professional jimmy milner at villa than david bentley

funny thing is if he stopped believing the hype, and started working as hard to maintain his reputation as he did in rebuilding it at Blackburn, a lot of clubs would be looking at the one that got away.

not holding my breath though.

Helix

yeah but if jermaine pennant did the same hed be a superstar too

not gonna happen with bently in the immediate future. the guys head is away with the fairies. thoroughly deserving of a club like spurs

Boggles

spockety wrote: »

I never said the world was after me. I said that before I even opened the thread I knew from the title that it would be a hatchet job on Robbie Keane disguised as a more general discussion. I was right I reckon. Boo hoo, etc.

Why not just answer the question the OP asked, instead of contiously playing the Gallent Defender when anyone mentions anything not to your liking about your beloved club.

---

Had a rethink of the worse signing, it has to be Dave Kitson, Pulis broke the bank and record to get him, he really is an unlikeable chap.

noodler

The thread is pretty much covered in "I hate Robbie Keane" views.

Alot of people have been overestimating his poor form, possibly due to being led by the media (esepcially brutal here-talk of a move everyday for 2 months).

Very few people seem aware of what he has done this season at all. Irish and Liverpool though coupled with the fact he is not very likeable make him an easy target alright.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

The thread is pretty much covered in "I hate Robbie Keane" views.

Alot of people have been overestimating his poor form, possibly due to being led by the media (esepcially brutal here-talk of a move everyday for 2 months).

Very few people seem aware of what he has done this season at all. Irish and Liverpool though coupled with the fact he is not very likeable make him an easy target alright.

I'm pretty sure everybody on here likes Robbie Keane as he's Irelands main goal threat, he's just been kak and was massively overpriced. I hope he turns it around because I don't mind him as a player (apart from his goal celebrations)!

Savman

noodler wrote: »

The thread is pretty much covered in "I hate Robbie Keane" views.

Alot of people have been overestimating his poor form, possibly due to being led by the media (esepcially brutal here-talk of a move everyday for 2 months).

Very few people seem aware of what he has done this season at all. Irish and Liverpool though coupled with the fact he is not very likeable make him an easy target alright.

Oh bollocks. I don't buy this anti-Irish/Liverpool rubbish for one second, but when you move for mega money you will get slated when you play as poorly as Robbie has, period.
Flop of the season, most definitely...and I'm a Keane fan.

Bounty Hunter

Keane may be considerd a flop thus far, and is the most high profile (Ireland captain at Liverpool for 20m) one so the discussion is understandable but he is not the biggest flop and can turn it around even if its not at liverpool but id expect it to be there.

Iago

When you think about biggest flops you think of

Balaban - Brolin - Veron - Boumsong - Bogarde - Cheyrou - Djemba Djemba - Kleberson -Rebrov - Tiabi

[size=-12]hell of a lot of united players in there actually:mad:[/size]

I don't think there is anyone this year that sticks out as being that bad, Keane hasn't been as good as expected but is contributing at least. JO hasn't really been given a fair crack of the whip at city, and similarly Shorey at Villa.

Modric & Bentley while underperforming at Spurs are at Spurs for gods sake. With the merry go round going on there it's hardly surprising that they aren't performing. They don't know who'll be training with them from one day to the next much less build up a good bond.

So there are players underperforming but I don't think there are any huge flops yet, certainly not at levels previously seen.

Helix

Iago wrote: »

I don't think there is anyone this year that sticks out as being that bad, Keane hasn't been as good as expected but is contributing at least. JO hasn't really been given a fair crack of the whip at city, and similarly Shorey at Villa.

dunno how you can say that shorey hasnt been given a fair crack of the whip. hes the only left back at the club and his performances were so bad that we stuck the only right back at the club at left back, and pulled a central midfielder in to right back

to be fair, you dont make that kind of wholesale change if a player just looks a tad out of sorts

hopefully he'll sort himself out and get back to decent form (in fact i believe he looked pretty handy on saturday, i didnt see the game), but so far, hes been utter cack

Charlie

Don't know if it's been posted yet, but Xisco has to be the biggest waste of £6 million pounds ever. Two successive managers didn't/don't want him, and he has made a grand total of 2 appearances.

Cheers alot Dennis Wise you elf like little ****.

glenjamin

Emnes. That £3m we spent on him would sure come in handy right about now. Once again proves how much a muppet Southgate is.

Really any need for me to say overall?

Helix

Charlie wrote: »

Xisco has to be the biggest waste of £6 million pounds ever.

this man says otherwise

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/BALABAN_B_20010826_NF_L.jpg