New website-what should i use?

MIN2511

Oh no, i would learn php...
I wouldn't want everything all done(no joy in that), and i understand that they wont do what i want thats why i would learn php.
Drawing my workflows, ERD's etc and what i expect to do... It's actually confusing but tbh i am enjoying it...

Placebo

yeah customising is gonna be horrid, also you do know moodle exists for students?

MIN2511

I know moodle, used it... Thats not what i want... This would be for all colleges etc, information on rents, average living expenses per county etc

Not so worried on the customising and i know i would be back here ranting but i hope to be fine...

Installing Plone as we speak

MIN2511

Guys, has anyone used Silverlight before?

Placebo

i wouldnt go near that, consider flex instead.

nearly

A complex, feature rich content management framework is going to present a steep learning curve. But the payoff is a major bonus.

You may *think* you'll be saving yourself trouble by trying to build a custom system... but can you guarantee security yourself? Joomla is worked on by hundreds (thousands?) of developers (maybe not the core of it) and they had security problems.

It would be an interesting exercise.. but wow, what an even steeper learning curve.

I use Drupal, which I prefer to Joomla. I love the community in it, I think the tool itself is amazing.

Out of the box, *shrug* Drupal looks like a blank sheet of paper. It's when you bring it to life with modules that you get some great functionality, and incredible levels of control.

It's also very secure, has excellent user management out-of-the-box. It's built in PHP too.

Can you imagine spending 1168 person years to develop a content management system? See here...

http://www.ohloh.net/p/drupal-contributions

Effort (est.) 1168 Person Years Avg. Salary $ year $ 64,260,707

rtmie

If you are comfortable with some light development you should investigate Django, a python based web development framework, documentation is excellent and python may be easier to pick up for you than php - if your background is more in OO languages. It has a data mapper that allows you to switch easily between database backends just by changing a line in config etc.

MIN2511

Hi,

I downloaded drupal and its more of a forum than a social networking site... I like the look and feel of facebook(i know it's php from scratch). Drupal forums are brilliant, someone on that forum suggested Plone.
I would like something with good support, i am a newbie and i am willing to learn if the materials are out there.

It's between Silverlight and Plone, need to decide by tomorrow. I am trying to purchase books on both(downloaded the Plone book)

MIN2511

rtmie wrote: »

If you are comfortable with some light development you should investigate Django, a python based web development framework, documentation is excellent and python may be easier to pick up for you than php - if your background is more in OO languages. It has a data mapper that allows you to switch easily between database backends just by changing a line in config etc.

Looking at this now


Thank you everyone for all your advice, it really means a lot to me. I have gotten enough advice to last me a life time-please keep them coming:D

I have looked at all of the below

• Drupal
• cmsmadesimple
• joomla
• Silverlight
• Plone
• Dolphin
• bitweaver

And maybe a few more, reading Django now

Django is python, i dunno how many people use python but Silverlight is .Net and i always wanted to learn c# and .Net is widely used.

pauldiv

All the above posts were great but it looks like OP must be feeling like the puck in one of those old arcade tennis games. You are losing focus batman but fear not coz many people have been where you are now.

You need to find an approach that works for you and stick to it.

If you swear right off not to use Microsoft, be seduced by their marketing, and promise to forget all about them then that decision will keep you on track and help you focus. That is what I did two years ago and I only work with PHP - a personal decision and one I dont regret. If other people like MS then thats their decision.

You said you are leaning towards PHP so you will benefit from millions of man hours already spent designing and building free PHP systems.

If you install a LAMP stack locally such as XAMP or WAMP, then you can download all the CMS systems you want and play around with them.

You have no choice but to learn to some coding if you want to build systems to your exact specs. It might take you a year or two to be competent because there are other things as well as coding that need to be considered:

Design, Graphics, CSS, Standards, Usability and so on can take a very long time to learn well. Give your self time and dont hurry but get your **** together regarding PHP and you will never look back.

Good Luck.

MIN2511

Guys i am back again....

I started learning how to create basic websites with Silverlight.... At this stage i may just use php from scratch....

I am trying not to lose focus of what i want to achieve, i bet these are hiccups...

pauldiv

MIN2511 wrote: »

I am trying not to lose focus of what i want to achieve, i bet these are hiccups...

They are just hiccups and you have chosen PHP for a good reason - you can't go wrong with it because it will let you build any type of website you want

Can I ask what you thought of Silverlight and why you decided against it?

MIN2511

Hello, Silverlight is good but not so good... It's all about flashlight and i struggled...
Another reason being, i know i will need support, no one i know has used Silverlight.
Someone suggested Drupal, i downloaded it again but forgot how i installed it... I have given up because bottom line is majority of the cms out there use php so i need to get back to basics.


Anyone recommend any books to buy? I might try and get one off the college library as i am too broke to afford one.

NeverSayDie

I think part of the problem here is that you're mixing up technologies and platforms - Silverlight isn't a CMS (Content Management System) like Drupal or Plone. It's a browser plugin-based system that lets you use .NET to develop rich web UIs - vector graphics, animation, databound skinnable controls, WPF-style decoupled UI spec/code, etc. It's fairly similar to Adobe's Flash in terms of what it's for.

If you want a CMS on the other hand, something like Drupal is what you need (there are lots of .NET equivalents if you want to stick with the ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET approach). You could also write your own from scratch, everybody seems to end up doing that at least once, hence the vast array of CMS projects out there.

Re books, haven't done much PHP work myself, but any of O'Reilly's books are usually a good bet.

Placebo

why did u even use silverlight?

MIN2511

I was chatting with a mate of mine who works in Microsoft and he thinks my idea is solid plus there is no market for it in Ireland.
He suggested Silverlight because he felt it will do well against facebook, and if this is ready in June i could approach MS with and ask for funding etc or more support

NeverSayDie

Yeah, Silverlight could certainly be useful for a social networking site, but more in terms of making it easy to do slick UI stuff than helping with the core "engine" of the site.

I don't know if you're familiar with the notion of 3-tier/n-tier architectures, but in those terms, Silverlight (and Flash and the likes) is largely only concerned with the presentation tier - they're UI technologies, albeit with strong integration with lower layers.

A CMS on the other hand will usually involve a framework that covers all 3 tiers to some extent. The actual web interface is only one aspect of it - storing, accessing and managing the data describing your content and its layout/relationships is also a tricky problem. That's more generic - in theory, a web-based CMS vs a desktop or headless one could look pretty similar when it comes to the backend code.

MIN2511

I am familiar with 3-tier/n tier architectures and i understand that Silverliht is largely presentation.

Aarrrghhh suggested i use php from scratch and i wasn't sure...
Now i wonder if i should use php or drupal.
You mentioned using drupal, do you have it on your pc now? I dunno where i went wrong but i need help installing it on my laptop..

NeverSayDie

Well, Drupal is written in PHP, so either way, you'd be using it PHP is a language, Drupal is a framework/platform. It's a bit like the difference between Ruby and Rails, or ASP.NET and C#.

If you're going the PHP route, I'd suggest starting with some basic PHP on its own without Drupal, in order to get used to the basics of the language and web development in general (which is somewhat different to other stuff you may have done - it's largely stateless for instance, and it's all client-server based, both of which sometimes throw folks who aren't used to those situations).

Re Drupal, never used it myself, so don't know much about the install, but it's a popular framework, should be lots of how-tos and forum posts out there for it. I'd recommend doing some basic "Hello World" type stuff with PHP first though, lots of tutorials out there for that.

Placebo

MIN2511 wrote: »

I was chatting with a mate of mine who works in Microsoft and he thinks my idea is solid plus there is no market for it in Ireland.
He suggested Silverlight because he felt it will do well against facebook, and if this is ready in June i could approach MS with and ask for funding etc or more support

Silverlight is MS attempt at Flex by adobe, which is far more superior and well documented at this stage.
-I dont see how a flash interface would do well against facebook at all !
-It will be slow/chunky/compatibility issues/Usability issues
-As well there will be more work required linking it in with a database using extra scripts to read/send XML, which im assuming silverlight uses [similar to flex]

MIN2511

Placebo wrote: »

-As well there will be more work required linking it in with a database using extra scripts to read/send XML, which im assuming silverlight uses [similar to flex]

That will be my biggest problem!

AARRRGH

I still think PHP from scratch is a safe option.

1. It's easy
2. Loads of people know it so you can always get help
3. It's cheap to outsource PHP projects (in case you wanted to outsources bits and pieces)
4. It's a good skill to have (as there aren't too many "professional" PHP developers)

So you can do all the brain stuff in PHP, and the nice UI stuff using a bit of AJAX.

Personally, I hate flash-type websites when non-flash would have done the trick.

How'd the exam go?

pauldiv

MIN2511 wrote: »

Anyone recommend any books to buy?

pm and I will show you where to get php books.
Have you sat down with pencil and paper and thought about your site?
Drawing screen mockups with notes is a great way to clarify things.

MIN2511

Am back again

Has anyone used Ruby? General thoughts on this?

pauldiv

MIN2511 wrote: »

Am back again Has anyone used Ruby? General thoughts on this?

Looks like you are steering off course.

While you are out there why not look at CodeIgniter?
Its a small PHP framework that offers some of the things Rails promises - MVC, speedy site development etc.
You will still need to learn the Ruby language to use Ruby on Rails.

Whatever way you look at it you need to learn coding to use all these frameworks and CMS's totheir potential and you will find way more support if you choose PHP.

MIN2511

Thank you very much for all your advise

btw i sent you a pm(php books) and no reply


I will stick with php, i don't mind the coding... It's just that when people offer me advice my head spins 360 and because i haven't done anything like this i get scared


downloading php as i type now... Really tired but will completely install it if it's the last thing i do

AARRRGH

Hey - are you working today? I can give you that PHP book I promised.

MIN2511

Lol... yes i am...

Thanks

What time do you finish work? I am there until 6.15...

AARRRGH

I won't be home until about 7. Can you hang around?

Ginger

MIN2511 wrote: »

Hello, Silverlight is good but not so good... It's all about flashlight and i struggled...
Another reason being, i know i will need support, no one i know has used Silverlight.
Someone suggested Drupal, i downloaded it again but forgot how i installed it... I have given up because bottom line is majority of the cms out there use php so i need to get back to basics.


Anyone recommend any books to buy? I might try and get one off the college library as i am too broke to afford one.

The thing to remember with SilverLight is that is client side rather than server side programming so its not as easy to get your head around the concept model.

You need a wee bit of knowledge of .NET and some of either WCF or ASMX. Now being honest, I am starting silverlight as a bit and I am finding it relatively easy to work with XAML tho I have Expression studio to help. I am by no means a graphics designer (mostly do backend coding) so it cant be that hard