Civil Partnership Bill to go before Dáil in new session

4red

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0127/1232923367773.html

Gay Civil Partnership is listed among numerous other Bills to be published before Easter but is by no means guaranteed to pass - as Labour Party chief whip Emmet Stagg said yesterday some of the 18 Bills promised will “never see the light of day”.

Please lobby your TDs here and Senators here to get this legislation through.

Goodshape

4red wrote: »

Please lobby your TDs here and Senators here.

Just in a general sense, how does one go about this?

Is it just find the TD / Senator related to your area and email them "what I think you should do" or what?

4red

Just send an email to your local TD or to all Fianna Fail/Green TDs, or even to all TDs/Senators, as I have done previously. Almost all of them reply and will indicate whether they support the Bill or not - most have been very communicative, particularly those who support equal rights for gay people.

Good questions to ask are :
Do you support the Civil Partnership Bill?
If so, what steps are you and your party taking to push it through?
What timeline can we expect once the Bill is passed through - i.e. when will gay people be able to enter into Civil Partnership with their partners?

It's always good to be polite, clear about your own position and follow up with them from time to time.

Remember TDs will only pass laws if they feel there is strong public support. While surveys show a majority of Irish people support Gay Civil Partnership, it's safe to say most heterosexuals (and sadly many gay people) won't bother to lobby.

So get emailing, it will take only a few minutes, will make you feel you're part of the democratic process, and might help change the law.

Good luck.

Goodshape

Thanks for that. I'll see if I can fire off a few emails this evening.

L1011

You would be surprised at the gaping lack of response from some FF TDs (whos party line is to vote yes for it) when you lobby them on it; namely older traditionalist ones (Michael Fitzpatrick, I'm looking at you...)

ixoy

Wouldn't surprise me if this got put on the back-burner under the guise that granting so many new couples tax relief is something that can't be done in the "current economic climate".

4red

Agreed to both points above. That's why it's important to lobby for it. Would be good to hear any responses, or lack of, people receive!

Annasopra

ixoy wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me if this got put on the back-burner under the guise that granting so many new couples tax relief is something that can't be done in the "current economic climate".

Yes - I've heard that it won't go before the house until Septemeber and even then the FF backbenchers are trying to derail it

Annasopra

4red wrote: »

Just send an email to your local TD or to all Fianna Fail/Green TDs, or even to all TDs/Senators, as I have done previously. Almost all of them reply and will indicate whether they support the Bill or not - most have been very communicative, particularly those who support equal rights for gay people.

Good questions to ask are :
Do you support the Civil Partnership Bill?
If so, what steps are you and your party taking to push it through?
What timeline can we expect once the Bill is passed through - i.e. when will gay people be able to enter into Civil Partnership with their partners?

It's always good to be polite, clear about your own position and follow up with them from time to time.

Remember TDs will only pass laws if they feel there is strong public support. While surveys show a majority of Irish people support Gay Civil Partnership, it's safe to say most heterosexuals (and sadly many gay people) won't bother to lobby.

So get emailing, it will take only a few minutes, will make you feel you're part of the democratic process, and might help change the law.

Good luck.

Theres a few other issues that must be included in there

* why does the proposed civil partnsership bill include no provisions for tax or social welfare
* If there is separate tax and social welfare legislation will theis effectively mean couples in Civil Partners will have inferior rights and obligations
*(in my opinion this should be included too) - what is your stance on adoption by civil partners

LookingFor

ixoy wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me if this got put on the back-burner under the guise that granting so many new couples tax relief is something that can't be done in the "current economic climate".

I think I'd stop paying my taxes if they did that..

Annasopra

LookingFor wrote: »

I think I'd stop paying my taxes if they did that..

OK then - work out how you will do that because the government (FF) are not rushing anytime soon to bring this in

Aoifums

Sorry to ask, but how do you go about finding each TD for your area? I know some, but if I'm emailing anyone then I will email them all.

L1011

oireachtas.ie has the details, ff and green td's are best to contact as they're in govt.

JonThom

Panti has written a blog entry on this. Some interesting points...

http://www.pantibar.com/blog.aspx?contentid=1536

Spyral

Panti has written a blog entry on this. Some interesting points...

http://www.pantibar.com/blog.aspx?contentid=1536

The one about bashing the RCC speaks volumes in itself. Tolerance ?

it's safe to say most heterosexuals (and sadly many gay people) won't bother to lobby.

why not, hypothetically it will allow me and my brother for example to be legal partners to ensure land etc is owned by both of us wont it? It works ok in other EU countries.

However marraige is a religous thing and unless gay-friendly churches are doing marraiges then I don't see how its any matter for the state to legislate upon.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Spyral wrote: »

The one about bashing the RCC speaks volumes in itself. Tolerance ?



why not, hypothetically it will allow me and my brother for example to be legal partners to ensure land etc is owned by both of us wont it? It works ok in other EU countries.

However marraige is a religous thing and unless gay-friendly churches are doing marraiges then I don't see how its any matter for the state to legislate upon.

No it ain't, two of my friends got married without god's blessing in the registry office

Thing about that article is is leaves out two important things. A lot of people won't protest because they don't want people to think they're gay

Also, young gays who are more likely to protest often hang out with other gays, as animal rights activists tend to hang out with each other. Most social circles are 95% straight, the topic of "anyone up for a gay rights protest" is unlikely to come up

Marshy

Spyral wrote: »

However marraige is a religous thing and unless gay-friendly churches are doing marraiges then I don't see how its any matter for the state to legislate upon.

Afraid not, civil marriage which is in question here is entirely secular, as the previous poster pointed out with people being able to get married in a registry office.

L1011

Spyral wrote: »

However marraige is a religous thing and unless gay-friendly churches are doing marraiges then I don't see how its any matter for the state to legislate upon.

Marriage isn't a religious thing in Ireland; its an entirely civil legal matter. That some religions throw a ceremony on in front of the legally mandated witnessing and signing of the register is completely and utterly irrelevant.

shoegirl

While the situation of parental and childrens rights is a noble and important cause, I think its really important that we start by getting the initial bit of legislation through first. If we don't the legislation will probably be indefinitely shelved. I am quite concerned about the lack of support from the LGBT community about this bill as it may be used as an excuse to drop it altogether.

who is this

shoegirl wrote: »

I am quite concerned about the lack of support from the LGBT community about this bill as it may be used as an excuse to drop it altogether.

I don't support it because all it will do is delay full equality. There will always be a large enough amount of people who will say "Oh sure, now there's the CP. Isn't that enough". To me, CP is, always has been, and always will be a stalling tactic and nothing more. If the Attorney General is so smart and marriage would be unconstitutional, how come he didn't consider (for example) the mass card legislation might be unconstitutional (which I have now heard, probably is). If he did warn the Gov. how come it was okay to pass it anyway to see what happens, but that's a no-go for same-sex marriage?

These proposals don't even include Social Welfare, Taxation etc. which are "being looked into" by their own Ministers. So much for a commitment to "equality for all", as they say so often. Obviously they don't understand the term if they don't realise that the "for all" is (or should be) entirely redundant.

maxi19

If you have to encourage your TD or senator to vote in favour of this bill you're voting for the wrong party in the first place. Senator Pearse Doherty has already pleadged his unwavering support for the bill.

L1011

maxi19 wrote: »

If you have to encourage your TD or senator to vote in favour of this bill you're voting for the wrong party in the first place. Senator Pearse Doherty has already pleadged his unwavering support for the bill.

I'd rather go back in the closet than vote SF...

smileykey

If this is the same bill proposed last year, I would NEVER lobby support for it! I would lobby for its rejection. It's second class citizenship legitimised! The bill gives no adoption rights, and of the few rights it does give, they aren't near as protected as the rights given by marriage. Its a tokenistic bill just to keep us off their backs. It give absolutely no protection or rights to families based on a gay couple.
Just to put things into perspective, my friend, who is the son of a lesbian couple and has been raised by them since birth would still be a stranger in the law's eyes to his non-biological mother, even if they get civil partnershipped and do everything they legally can in the Irish state.
As far as I know, in the UK civil partnership is marriage by another name, it affords the same rights and responsibilities, why can't it be the same in Ireland? Why are people so happy to accept this offensive, tokenistic bill that mearly reiterates the message that we are not equal??

I'm actually shocked that people are promoting this bill. We deserve better. Our families deserve better.

The_Minister

JonThom wrote: »

Panti has written a blog entry on this. Some interesting points...

http://www.pantibar.com/blog.aspx?contentid=1536

How did the gays help the pensioners and the farmers, and why do they owe gay people their support?

ixoy

The_Minister wrote: »

How did the gays help the pensioners and the farmers, and why do they owe gay people their support?

I think it's based on the idea that those groups both felt that they deserved their things (medical cards, grants, etc), that it was owed to them because they were citizens of the state, so that in turn they should be equally outraged that other members of the state aren't receiving their right - in this case for gay people to get married.

I imagine there is 0% chance of any of this happening in the current economic climate, although if they do put in place they'll probably use the economy as an excuse not to give a lot of the same taxation freedoms that married couples enjoy.

TomRooney

4red wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0127/1232923367773.html

Gay Civil Partnership is listed among numerous other Bills to be published before Easter but is by no means guaranteed to pass - as Labour Party chief whip Emmet Stagg said yesterday some of the 18 Bills promised will “never see the light of day”.

Please lobby your TDs here and Senators here to get this legislation through.

i dont think this is a good idea, with any luck it wont go through.

TomRooney

ixoy wrote: »

I think it's based on the idea that those groups both felt that they deserved their things (medical cards, grants, etc), that it was owed to them because they were citizens of the state, so that in turn they should be equally outraged that other members of the state aren't receiving their right - in this case for gay people to get married.

I imagine there is 0% chance of any of this happening in the current economic climate, although if they do put in place they'll probably use the economy as an excuse not to give a lot of the same taxation freedoms that married couples enjoy.

but it is not legaly accepted that it is a "right" for gays and lesbians to marry.

so it is only realy the gay community that is pushing for this, and that is quite small, in fairness.

TomRooney

smileykey wrote: »

If this is the same bill proposed last year, I would NEVER lobby support for it! I would lobby for its rejection. It's second class citizenship legitimised! The bill gives no adoption rights, and of the few rights it does give, they aren't near as protected as the rights given by marriage. Its a tokenistic bill just to keep us off their backs. It give absolutely no protection or rights to families based on a gay couple.
Just to put things into perspective, my friend, who is the son of a lesbian couple and has been raised by them since birth would still be a stranger in the law's eyes to his non-biological mother, even if they get civil partnershipped and do everything they legally can in the Irish state.
As far as I know, in the UK civil partnership is marriage by another name, it affords the same rights and responsibilities, why can't it be the same in Ireland? Why are people so happy to accept this offensive, tokenistic bill that mearly reiterates the message that we are not equal??

I'm actually shocked that people are promoting this bill. We deserve better. Our families deserve better.

do you not think if same sex relationships where meant to have kids, then they would be able to concieve them naturaly.

but they cant, so why go against the natural order of things as mother nature has deemed.

i believe you should as much right as any citizen, but kids in my opinion is going too far.

barbeck23

TomRooney -

Could you explain to me where this term 'mother nature' came from?
Who isn't to say that the so called person 'mother nature' intended science to develop to an extent that allowed homosexuals to have children - to be parents. Surely the same arguement could said for almost all of modern medicine - if you needed a blood tranfusion I presume you would be refusing in order to allow mother nature have her way.

Your comments are disgusting, almost akin to someone saying 'mother nature intended black people to be second class citizens' - how minds have changed and thank goodness. Are you going to be a person of backward thinking or forward thinking?

Reflector

TomRooney wrote: »

do you not think if same sex relationships where meant to have kids, then they would be able to concieve them naturaly.

but they cant, so why go against the natural order of things as mother nature has deemed.

i believe you should as much right as any citizen, but kids in my opinion is going too far.

you're contradicting yourself here tom, there is no such thing as "against Nature". If it exists then it is natural to the human race. It is up us to decide what we deem to be ok for society and denying a couple who love eachother the chance to be considered for adoption is just wrong. how can you stand up and say that we are equal citizens when this important right is taken from us. Either we are 100% equal or not equal there is no grey area here.

L1011

TomRooney wrote: »

i dont think this is a good idea, with any luck it wont go through.

With any luck, you'll grow out of being a bigot.

It has the support of all elected parties, its going to go through when it eventually goes foward; end of.