Civil Partnership Bill to go before Dáil in new session

TomRooney

MYOB wrote: »

With any luck, you'll grow out of being a bigot.

It has the support of all elected parties, its going to go through when it eventually goes foward; end of.

well that remains to be seen.

i for one am against it as i am a christian, and it goes against my beliefs.:D

Reflector

TomRooney wrote: »

well that remains to be seen.

i for one am against it as i am a christian, and it goes against my beliefs.:D

Well in my beliefs I think that all christians should be publicly flogged for ramming their invisible sky god down our throats for the last 2000 years.

L1011

TomRooney wrote: »

well that remains to be seen.

i for one am against it as i am a christian, and it goes against my beliefs.:D

It may "remain to be seen" but when 100% of elected parties - and I would suspect all bar one independent TD - support the bill it has a snowballs chance in hell of not going through.

Do you also refuse to eat shellfish, deal with anyone who sews two crops in the same field and wear woven fibres? Banned in the same book of the bible.

I love the way people around the world use their "beliefs" to justify bigotry. Or in other cases (not this one), incitement to hatred...

The_Minister

MYOB wrote: »

Do you also refuse to eat shellfish, deal with anyone who sews two crops in the same field and wear woven fibres? Banned in the same book of the bible.

I love the way people around the world use their "beliefs" to justify bigotry. Or in other cases (not this one), incitement to hatred...

AFAIK homosexuality is banned in multiple parts of the Bible - God even nuked a city over it.

L1011

The_Minister wrote: »

AFAIK homosexuality is banned in multiple parts of the Bible - God even nuked a city over it.

From what I remember, it was just assumed thats what was going on in Sodom rather than stated. Most English translations only mention about there being sinning going on; not specifics. Would need an actual scholar of ancient Hebrew to try and decide...

The primary ban is in Leviticus; the rest of which bans a whole load of random things which nobody has obeyed for tens of centuries.

There is also no reference, whatsoever to female homosexual relations in the Bible; banned or otherwise.

The_Minister

I did a bit of research on this (my dream job is a policy researcher in the senior civil service, so I like to practice:)).

'Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.'
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

'For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.'
Romans 1:26-27

L1011

Those are both from letters - first letter to the Corinthians and letter to the Romans respectively. The letters aren't meant to be the 'word of god'. Just teachings based on the interpretation of the time...

I'd be interested as to what word they translated to 'homosexuals' in 1 Corinthians for whatever version you got that from. Its "Effemenate" in the King James version!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%206%20;&version=9;

Aoifums

TomRooney wrote: »

well that remains to be seen.

i for one am against it as i am a christian, and it goes against my beliefs.:D

Please don't bring religion up in an argument. Not every believes in the same God(s), and I refuse to believe in a book written by man claiming to be the word of the Lord. I'd believe the Lord's word, just not the mis-translated, influenced by the times, copy of a several thousand year old book.

TomRooney

Reflector wrote: »

Well in my beliefs I think that all christians should be publicly flogged for ramming their invisible sky god down our throats for the last 2000 years.

invisible sky god...?

anyway judeo christian belief originated over 4000 years ago.

you are what is wrong with secular homosexual attitudes. you want us to respect your right to say homosexuality is ok, but you dont respect my right to believe it is utterly wrong........also my faith is very important to me how dare you make such derogatory statements against it.
thats incitement to anti religious sentiment......you see it works both ways,

what you do behind closed doors is your business, just dont try to ram it down other peoples throats.

you dont see heteros having straight pride marches, so keep your sexuality to yourself the vast majority of us just dont care or want to know.

TomRooney

Aoifums wrote: »

Please don't bring religion up in an argument. Not every believes in the same God(s), and I refuse to believe in a book written by man claiming to be the word of the Lord. I'd believe the Lord's word, just not the mis-translated, influenced by the times, copy of a several thousand year old book.

Please dont tell me what to say...that is called censorship.....and not everyone believes in that.

the bible is not mistranslated if you have any real proof provide it, we still have the greek manuscripts for verification and the bible we have today is 99.5 percent textualy pure.

i through my personal and religious beliefs believe homosexualty is un-natural and wrong morally. i am entitled to that view, just as you are entitled to disagree with me.

i dont advocate "gay bashing" or any mistreatment of homosexuals, we are all human and should show respect to each other individualy, but that doesnt mean i have to believe homosexuality is morally good or ok.

a person defines there own sexual preference.

Tricity Bendix

I for one would not question Tom Rooney's right believe homosexuality is against God's law. However, you don't have to believe that homosexuality is 'morally good' to support a legal recognition of same-sex unions. The Bible is a guide on how to live a Christian life, not a book of laws. There is plenty of stuff in there that most Christians wouldn't like to see defined in law, and there is plenty of stuff in law that is not derived from the Bible. So, instead of hiding behind a book, I'd like to hear a Christian outline the argument against this law. Homosexuality is going to exist regardless of whether or not this Bill passes, so what exactly is it that is being opposed.

barbeck23

Tom - You are quite right - no one should tell you what to say or what not to say. Freedom of expression is guaranteed not only under Irish law but also under European Human Rights Law. Freedom of Religion is also protected so you are therefore fully entitled to your own beliefs whether morally based or based in scripture. That is your Human Right.

Another Human Right is equality. From the words of the American declaration of Independence - Human Rights are self - evident - therefore forever evolving with society and people’s acceptance and perceptions. Barack Obama is living proof of this concept. Fortunately for I and many others out there, you (Tom) are in the minority with you views in regards homosexuality and therefore the view that equality, with particular regard to marriage, should be afforded to homosexuals, as a basic Human Right. I would like to ask you where you base your belief that the "vast majority of us just don’t care or want to know". Statistics - facts - prove otherwise.

Homosexuals are simply saying that the law needs to be consistent upon passing down legislation - how is the basic human right of equality afforded to homosexuals when in a situation where a heterosexual couple adopt - it is automatic that the couple are registered as parents - however this is not the case with a civil partnership. Further is a lesbian has artificial insemination - her registered civil partner will not automatically become the dual parent - as is the case with heterosexual couple's. This is blatantly discrimination. Whatever your beliefs of the act of homosexual intercourse - it is a form of bullying. Tom - it's easy to stand in the position you’re in when the whole constitution of Ireland is centred on the Catholic Church. How would you feel if Ireland was dominated by the a religious order that aloud a man to have 2 or more wives, afforded benefits to these family units and discriminated against the catholic ideal of a husband having one wife. That would be discrimination - whatever your belief - whether it be in the concept of adultery or not. As you have stated, we are all human and should respect each other individually – I respect you, your beliefs. I would call upon you to respect mine – and if not support the proposed legislation – be indifferent to it instead of ‘gay bashing’ it.

L1011

TomRooney wrote: »

you dont see heteros having straight pride marches, so keep your sexuality to yourself the vast majority of us just dont care or want to know.

Give us equal rights and you're not going to hear from us. You, however, have already expressed a desire to deny us equal rights.

smileykey

TomRooney wrote: »

do you not think if same sex relationships where meant to have kids, then they would be able to concieve them naturaly.

but they cant, so why go against the natural order of things as mother nature has deemed.

i believe you should as much right as any citizen, but kids in my opinion is going too far.

So by the same standards anyone who has fertility difficulties has been deemed by "mother nature" to be unfit for children and shouldn't have any, is that what you're saying?

And why is it going too far for same sex couples to have children?? I'll be the first to break it to you that they already are. What the law says will not affect me and my partner's decission to have children but it will effect the rights and protections the state will give them and our family. I don't think that that is fair on the children. Why should my children not be afforded the same protection by the state as children of heterosexual couples? why should they not have the same rights to inheritance as other children? why should their parents not get the same tax relief as other parents? Why do the children have to suffer because the state is run by bigots?

who is this

TomRooney wrote: »

do you not think if same sex relationships where meant to have kids, then they would be able to concieve them naturaly.

Do you not think if infertile couples were meant to have kids, then they would be able to conceive them naturally?

I would have preserved the misspellings, and bad punctuation for effect but I couldn't bring myself to press "Submit" without correcting them.

Unfortunately for me, it didn't stop my 'parents'. Shall we strip them of their legal status too? I mean, at least it would be fair. You certainly won't hear any objections from me...

smileykey

you dont see heteros having straight pride marches, so keep your sexuality to yourself the vast majority of us just dont care or want to know.

You do however see the Irish having pride marches (e.g. Paddy's day - please don't try yo excuse this as some religious thing, what is remotely religious about your average paddy's day parade apart from the guy in the green dress and the funny hat?) Why do the Irish have pride marches when many nationalities don't? Would it be due to the fact that our nationality was denied acknowledgement and our people suffered for so long? Do you not think other groups who have been denied acknowledgement and who are still suffering from the oppressive powers of others should also get to have their day of "sticking it to the man"?

Also, I think everyone should celebrate their sexuality since it is a beautiful and fullfiling thing. I would completely encourage heteros to have straight prie marches, what's stopping you? We aren't.

Butterfly baby

TomRooney wrote: »

you dont see heteros having straight pride marches, so keep your sexuality to yourself the vast majority of us just dont care or want to know.

LOL I like him.. simply because he's right and it's true, it's called the "Gay" pride parade and totally implies Gay male, if it's meant to represent everyone then why is it not called The LGBT pride parade? because would that not more encompass all the others that have to live under the same unequality?...Oh no wait it wouldn't because no ones more put down than the gay male are they?....Try living a year as a Transsexual and then you'll learn what real unequality is and, trust me on this, legal marriage is the last thing on your mind...

Reflector

TomRooney wrote: »

invisible sky god...?

anyway judeo christian belief originated over 4000 years ago.

you are what is wrong with secular homosexual attitudes. you want us to respect your right to say homosexuality is ok, but you dont respect my right to believe it is utterly wrong........also my faith is very important to me how dare you make such derogatory statements against it.
thats incitement to anti religious sentiment......you see it works both ways,

what you do behind closed doors is your business, just dont try to ram it down other peoples throats.

you dont see heteros having straight pride marches, so keep your sexuality to yourself the vast majority of us just dont care or want to know.

well at least homosexuality is proven to exist Tom!. Also if you are willing to try and use a god as some sort of moral compass for all of humanity than I find that offensive and so do many people who were beaten, abused by people acting in your gods name. I have no objection to who you worship behind closed doors but why do we have to have it rammed down our throats.

People just want rights, I cannot believe someone who's entire faith is based on love and compassion could be so objectional to that. Love is love no matter what our gender and surely someone who believes in a soul can look beyond gender when it comes to two people committing themselves to eachother.

just one final note, how can I respect your right to say something that is fundemantal to who I am as a person is wrong. I feel that your belief in a roundabout way incites for homosexuality to be removed from society. I hope that throughout your life you become a more compassionate person and learn a more tolerant and live and let live outlook on life. I respect peoples spirituality and would never dream of infringing on their beliefs but when those beliefs incite hate than I have to defend my life.