Did you vote for Fianna Fail and if so why

Zionist · 27-01-2009 10:33pm #1

I am curious to see the opinions of people here who have voted for Fianna Fail and why ?

I myself cannot understand why people would vote for such a corrupt & incompetent party but it is a democracy so we are allegedly all entitled to our opinions!!

Permabear · 27-01-2009 10:41pm

This post has been deleted.

Zionist · 27-01-2009 10:49pm

The days of Bertie and Charlie McCreevy IMHO were a mere farce, the Celtic Tiger we all spoke about was the Plastic Tiger.

As there was no real money it was all debit and the previous FF governments lets the housing market amongst other things spiral out of control with no limits or restrictions, now tell me thats not incompetent ?

Permabear · 27-01-2009 10:52pm

This post has been deleted.

OhNoYouDidn't · 27-01-2009 11:03pm

Come on out of that. There has been a sniff of rodent around FF since the 50's. Corruption within the government had been laid bare long before the last election.

Every expert was predicting a house price collapse and a global economic downturn, the credit crunch just accelerated it.

There is no hindsight about it. We were well warned what these incompetent buffons and their ideological (and now officially a failed one) crank sidekicks in the PD's were heading us towords.

If you voted FF you are a fool and its been laid bare for all to see.

humberklog · 27-01-2009 11:08pm

Far too easy to blame an incompitent gov. for driving our economy onto the rocks in stormy seas. However during the last election the opposition made themselves look un-electable and indeed that's how they were repaid. The last election was for the taking but the opposition parties couldn't do it. Now that is incompitence in a sea of their own making.

(PS I voted No.1 Finian Magrath, No.2 Sean HaugheyFF, No.3 Richard Bruton(FG).
FF No.2 because it was the highest I could score him after entering a pact to give No.1 to an independent. I would have given S. Haughey No.1 because he is an excellent local politician.

DARKIZE · 27-01-2009 11:15pm

I spread my vote in the last election among FG, Labour and Greens, for no other reason than that FF have been in power too long, become too complacent, and too in thrall to the "social partners". I always thought that the electorate and taxpayers were supposed to be the social partners, not a select gathering of unions, big employers reps, and sundry niche special interests. But people get the government they deserve, and until Ireland stops electing their TDs because they got a parking fine quashed, or got them a medical card, or got ramps on the road, or (God forbid) eased through a planning application, we'll always lack the genuine strategic leadership and vision that could bring the country forward.

Hagar · 27-01-2009 11:21pm

"At this moment in time" politician speak for "now".
"Social Partner" FF speak for rapee.

That's why I have never voted FF.

deadhead13 · 27-01-2009 11:37pm

No I didn't. But is FG really a better alternative - I don't think so.

PixelTrawler · 27-01-2009 11:39pm

I admit I did, purely out of fear that the other side would be even worse.
Now I dont think its possible, and I think i'll give it to to someone else...

A change is badly needed...

Permabear · 27-01-2009 11:54pm

This post has been deleted.

humberklog · 27-01-2009 11:58pm

And whatever about FG (who in fairness pulled in their rural votes). What of a government with a big slice of Labour being led by the intolerable Easter Bunny being shunted along with Joan "on message" Burton in tow? Good grief.

Het-Field · 28-01-2009 12:32am

I am a resident in Dublin South West. It is easily the most uncompetitive constituency in Dublin.

Like Donegal Fella, I voted for FF based on my support for the PDs. I had been very active in the party for 15 months prior to the election, and busted my gut for the party for another 15 months after the election. I was privy to the fact that Mary Harney was the only safe seat, and that we were only in the running for four in total, we were guaranteed to lose four, and our five member of the Seanad had no chance of election. I was hopeful that a minority government could have been formed with 4 PD TDs and Fianna Fail, as I felt there was no chance of my party being in government with the rainbow coalition, so I was snookered unless I wished to vote for Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party Candidate, or the Father's Rights and Responsibility Guy.

Unfortunatly, my gamble didnt pay off, and we lost two of the four seats which we had any claim over, and the second of those was Grealish's, which would have been the one I would like to have seen go before anybody else.

The PDs had been nullified in the economic sphere for several years. The Stamp Duty issue was the prime example. Uner McCreevy, that would never have occured. Cowan was so Party Political, that he didnt want to give tha success to the PDs.

I regret voting FF now. I would never have voted for them if I felt it would mean an Increase in VAT and Income and Carbon Tax, Nationalisation/Recapitalisation/Guarantees of Banks, and savage cutbacks on the old, the young, and the handicapped. I was of the impression that Bertie would lead the country for another few years, and while I was of the belief that he had dirty hands, I had no idea that it would get so bad. I never felt Cowan would get the opportunity as quickly as he did. He has showed no level of leadership, and mistakenly selected his cabinet.

I take my responsibiliy. I voted for them, and did so for party political reasons. I apologise

Pride Fighter · 28-01-2009 12:43am

Can I ask you if you are going to go for FG now?? A lot of people I know of who are ex PD's are going for that option over FF.

Permabear · 28-01-2009 12:50am

This post has been deleted.

Húrin · 28-01-2009 12:55am

Hardly. Everyone who has not been voting for FF has known this. I recall reading an article by Garret Fitzgerald about the illusory nature of the celtic tiger back in May 2007. It's not as if nobody knew that debt was at unsustainable levels.

In fairness we cannot know how the opposition would have done in govt. I don't know why people pretend to be so certain that FG + Labour would have been that bad.

I'd rather have Richard Bruton managing finance now than Lenihan and Cowen. I don't care much that Kenny lacks dark hair and charisma.

thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 1:04am

I presume you mean economically liberal?

Hasn't that whole idealogy got a tad disproven recently?! :rolleyes:

Permabear · 28-01-2009 1:08am

This post has been deleted.

thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 1:10am

HA! What are you on??:eek:
This government is a lot of things but it is most certainly not left-wing

Permabear · 28-01-2009 1:20am

This post has been deleted.

thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 1:30am

Low tax (lowest corporation tax in EU), scandalous withdrawal of vital services e.g. medical cards and education cutbacks, reintroduction of third level fees, privatisation of our health service, etc etc

Your probably gonna say that the nationalisation of a bank is a left wing move but if they were left wing they would have nationalised it if it was making money, not to bail out property developers, its sickening

Permabear · 28-01-2009 1:44am

This post has been deleted.

thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 1:54am

Its 41 % income tax, and compared to some countries is pretty low. Tbh I'd rather pay more taxes and have a proper health or education system, which leads me onto...

[/QUOTE]mean the vote-buying medical cards that the very same "right-wing" party introduced in 2002?[/QUOTE?
We should have free healthcare for EVERYONE, not just OAPs. At the time we were rolling in money and could easily have afforded it.

[/QUOTE]Whose abolition was originally floated by the Fianna Fáil right-winger Seamus Brennan? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE}
Well it wasn't introduced by Fianna Fail! It took the backbone of Labour to carry it through, and would never have been implemented by the linear-thinking idiots in FF.

[/QUOTE]Of course nationalizing the banks is a left-wing move. How could it possibly be otherwise?[/QUOTE]

Its not for the sake of helping the people by making credit more easily available to people, its to bail out the fat cats like Sean FitzPatrick. It might look like a left wing move, but the thinking behind it is far from it. Look at Bush taking over AIG and half of the other financial institutions in the US.

monosharp · 28-01-2009 1:55am

Perhaps he meant the low corporation tax, not your tax.

For the reasons mentioned.

A state controlled bank would not have gotten itself into the predicament they all now face in the first place and bailing out a private bank to save your mates, the property developers is not left at all.

Donegalfella, honestly, you sound like you would vote for FF again because you feel they are still the best of a bad lot, is that true ?

If it is I am glad I left the country and have no intention of ever returning except for holidays. Ireland, the politically and economically corrupt cesspool of the world.

ArmaniJeanss · 28-01-2009 2:05am

Voted PD in Dublin West but as their representative had no chance of being elected my 2nd choice onwards was my real vote - and that was for FF.

In the next election I am 80% sure that I will still vote for FF - the only thing that might sway it to a FG vote would be if a) FG looked as if they could get an overall majority or b) FG gave a cast-iron guarantee that they would not go into coalition with the Labour Party.

Arguably a FF/FG coalition would be the best result, followed by a proper merger of the two. Meanwhile Labour and the various Socialist Parties could merge. And then we'd have the ideal two party system, one centre left, one centre right (FF/FG obviously)

Permabear · 28-01-2009 2:11am

This post has been deleted.

deadhead13 · 28-01-2009 2:12am

+1. And we would finally be rid of civil war politics.

Het-Field · 28-01-2009 2:29am

Unlikely. I am remaining as a Independent, at least until after the Local and European Elections. I was originally in Fianna Fail, and I would see them as the most likely destination for me in the future. However, as things stand, its unlikely that I will go back for some time.

The only reason I can see for changing my vote would be to ensure that somebody new audits the books, and attempts to redress any negative actions which have been taken. And as things stand, it is a fairly compelling reason.

If the Government lasts until 2012, Fianna Fail will have been in power for 18 of those years. Like the Conservative Party in the UK, and the Republican Party in the US, people eventually decide that a change is in order. Fianna Fail are running out of coalition partners, and Labour and Fianna Fail will not work well together. I believe that there will be a full change of government in 3 years.

SeanW · 28-01-2009 2:42am

Eh ... I saw this back as far as the early 2000s during the real "Celtic Tiger" when Charlie McCreepy was cutting taxes during boom time, in "pro cyclic" policies that encouraged inflation (which went over 7% on his watch) and left the public finances unable to withstand any shock (sound familiar)? He could have set up a proper savings systerm for the public finances similar to that of Japan, but instead they couldn't find a wall big enough to piss all the money up against. Biffo may be a hapless rabbit caught in a set of car headlamps but he was handed a giant mess by the ugly dipstick that preceeded him.

No. The curent economic collapse was caused in large part by cheap credit policies of major central banks, such as the United States Federal Reserve Bank, to create massive amounts of cheap credit. Through government mandates such as the Community Reinvestment Act, government backing of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, retail banks were encouraged and required to irresponsibly make "sub prime" loans and financing available for people who otherwise should never have qualified for the mortgages they took out.

Banks got greedy, to be sure, but the whole housing bubble was caused in large majority by perhaps well intentioned but irresponsible government (Congress, Federal Reserve) meddling. Not the private sector.

If the U.S. and to a lesser extent Europe had gold backed currency, tightly controlled Fractional Reserve banking and little or no Central banking, none of this would have happened.

The PDs lost any claim to "liberalism" or "libertarianism" in my eyes when Mary Harney banned magic mushrooms. Expanding the Nanny State =/= liberal/libertarian.
I agree with you to a point about the need for a liberal (libertarian?) party. But the PDs at the end clearly were not it. Good riddance.

Fianna Fail is a known quantity. They only care about themselves and their property developer buddies. We have all known this for the past 30 years. Anyone who conciously voted for FF at the last election, and more importantly the 2002 election, must take their share of the blame for the current mess.

oceanclub · 28-01-2009 2:53am

You're seriously saying that noone warned there was a credit and property bubble?

SkepticOne · 28-01-2009 3:22am

I think a lot of people had concerns about the sustainability of the economy at the time, but it was still a minority concern and there was a lot of social pressure to keep quiet about it. Even if the leadership of FG, for example, knew there was trouble ahead (I believe they did) there were no votes in voicing these concerns. In hindsight, if they knew, they should have spoken up.

Did you vote for Fianna Fail and if so why

Comments