Did you vote for Fianna Fail and if so why

monosharp

donegalfella wrote: »

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Free health ? Free healthcare should not be an issue, it should be a right to everyone regardless.

Any move to nationalize anything in the private sector is a left-wing move. Bush betrayed the principles of conservatism when he did what he did—and not for the first time.

A left wing move for right wing reasons.

The banks are only in the predicament they now face because governments held interest rates too low for too long, thus creating a huge credit bubble. That would never have happened in a genuinely free-market economy.

Genuine Capitalism would be just as bad as a genuine Communism. The banks are in the position they are in today because of greed, plain and simple.

Here were my 2007 choices in my constituency of Donegal North East:

3 FF candidates (all incumbents)
1 FG candidate
1 Green Party candidate
1 Sinn Féin candidate
1 Christian Solidarity Party candidate
3 Independents

What would you suggest I do?

Normally I'd say "oh yeah .... hhmmm flip a coin ?" but after Bertie and what most of the rest of FF are like I can only suggest ANYONE but them.

I am apolitical at the best of times and I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between the parties but FF has been shafting us too hard for too long. FF wouldn't get within a mile of government in a sane country after their antics over the past few years and that's a fact.

Ireland needs real change, the whole system needs to change. Not just the rats in government but the whole system of government itself.

mountainyman

Het-Field wrote: »

savage cutbacks on the old, the young, and the handicapped.

Isn't that PD policy?

noel farrell

ihave never voted FF in any election but i was glad the got back in at the last election so the have to clear up the mess mostly their makeing which would have continued for many years to come only the world down turn which is very bad found them out . i am sorry for all the people who are in thruble and dont know where to turn and we are not near the bottom yet it wil get much worse i have no answer i have to go with the flow like the rest and hope for light at the end of the tunell :mad:

Permabear

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oceanclub

donegalfella wrote: »

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We tried mininal interference with Patrick Neary. Look where that got us.

P.

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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I am sorry but the PDs died as a political force a long time before last election and the dithering of McDowell over berties finances proved that the days of them being the ones to keep a moral ethical eye on ff were well and truly dead and buried.
Their coat was not alone adopted by ffers, but they left the PDs without a shirt on their backs.

Did you vote for Mary Coughlan ? :eek::eek::eek:

Zionist wrote: »

The days of Bertie and Charlie McCreevy IMHO were a mere farce, the Celtic Tiger we all spoke about was the Plastic Tiger.

As there was no real money it was all debit and the previous FF governments lets the housing market amongst other things spiral out of control with no limits or restrictions, now tell me thats not incompetent ?

+1
The real Celtic Tiger died back in 2001/2002, when a lot of the technology companies got ripped apart post dot com bust.
After that we kept loosing jobs in that arena, in our manufacturing and in some old indigeneous industries e.g Irish Sugar.
All we replaced them with were construction related jobs, be it directly or in the ancilliary industries, and in retail sector.
How many new shopping centres appeared in almost every town in the country?
All of this was nearly fueled by the cheap credit being flung at everyone and the tax breaks being given by government for development of disdavantaged areas, student accomodation, hotels, hospitals etc.

humberklog wrote: »

Far too easy to blame an incompitent gov. for driving our economy onto the rocks in stormy seas. However during the last election the opposition made themselves look un-electable and indeed that's how they were repaid. The last election was for the taking but the opposition parties couldn't do it. Now that is incompitence in a sea of their own making.

(PS I voted No.1 Finian Magrath, No.2 Sean HaugheyFF, No.3 Richard Bruton(FG).
FF No.2 because it was the highest I could score him after entering a pact to give No.1 to an independent. I would have given S. Haughey No.1 because he is an excellent local politician.

Ah yes one of the Haugheys.
I hear his daddy was an excellent local politican as well.
It's a pity he will forever be remembered as a lying thieving git, who swanked around in expensive shirts, eating in expensive restaruant, while ordinary people paid high taxes, emigrated in droves, died on hospital trolleys or on long waiting lists :mad:

He did for Irish politics what Gary Glitter did for Vietnamese Tourism :rolleyes:

Do you complain that the government is cr** even though you voted for two of it's supporters ?
Will you vote for Haughey/McGrath next time ?

deadhead13 wrote: »

No I didn't. But is FG really a better alternative - I don't think so.

So if there was a general election tomorrow, would you still vote for biffo clowen and his bunch of merry chancers ?
If your football team is relegated to Division 4 from Division 1, would you still want the same manager ?

oceanclub wrote: »

We tried mininal interference with Patrick Neary. Look where that got us.

P.

Boom boom

BTW what is his golden handshake package ?

SkepticOne

oceanclub wrote: »

We tried mininal interference with Patrick Neary. Look where that got us.

The damaging thing there was not so much the lack of regulation but rather that people were led to believe that things were being regulated. The pretence of regulation is much worse than merely a lack of regulation.

Permabear

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Bushalicious

I have never voted for FF. When they won the last election I couldn't get my head around it. How could the people be so blind? None of my friends voted FF and the general feeling was that they were leading the country to ruin. Shame we were right.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight as a previous poster suggested. This is just keeping your head screwed on at all times and keeping your eyes open. It was obvious for everyone to see that the country was coming apart at the seems years ago.

However the previous poster is correct. A lot of people are coming out bashing the government saying that they new it all along. If all these people genuinely "knew it all along"then we wouldn't have FF in government now. (On a personal note I hate the phrase "the dog in the street could see it." - Idiots say that)

I'm just glad that FF are there to reap what they sowed. They are a bunch of con men, always have been, always will be. They are very good at what they do, and that is misleading the public.

One of my favorite lines of theirs was when the general election results came in and opinion seemed to be pretty divided. It looked like FG and Labour and The Greens and a few independents could make something work. FF didn't like that so they were all over the news saying that Ireland needed strength and continuity and that a "rag tag" government made up of loads of partys would not work. Well excuse me but that is exactly what we got. FF PDs Green Independents. Absolute joke but they convinced the people it was for the best. They did a crap job in their second term and still got voted in so why should they bother trying in their thrid term.

Political memory is short term memory. There is a long time left and FF could spin all this before the next election and the idiots will vote them back in citing that famous phrase "better the devil you know" or "I dont trust the other crowed either".

What we as a nation have to show is that their are consequences for bad managment. People are losing their jobs and their houses and our government blames the world economy. Always with the excuses. If FF really feared the people then they would work harder.

At least if they are ou we will have shown the that we will not tollerate them. Let FG and Labour have a go. They cant do any worse than this shower. Besides, as it stands FF will have been in power for 3 terms in a row. Of course they are complacent. They don't have to try anymore.

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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I actually think McDowell is one of the main reasons that the PDs are gone.
As I mentioned elsewhere he might be smart guy, he can often come across as an eejit.

So what is your take on poltical representatives mantaining acceptable standards ?
I think you may know what I am driving at, pardon the pun

Vadrefjorde

donegalfella wrote: »

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:eek: Are we really in that much trouble :eek:
On a more serious note the PD's would be a frightening thought to have to go back to relying on. Not that they have fully gone away, Country Tom still seems to have quite a hand in decision making.
Mary get's to pursue her vested interest decimation of public health care,
and the legacy of Mr. McDowell's "i'll change the law if i don't like it" is still with us, or should i say ye now that i'm in the process of escaping this banana zone.

I never voted for Fianna Fail, although i do know a few families that vote by family tradition, not that there's any point trying to point out how ludicrous that is...

I'm still waiting for someone to post "I vote for FF because that's who mammy and daddy always vote for" though.

Permabear

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gurramok

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Voted PD in Dublin West but as their representative had no chance of being elected my 2nd choice onwards was my real vote - and that was for FF.

In the next election I am 80% sure that I will still vote for FF - the only thing that might sway it to a FG vote would be if a) FG looked as if they could get an overall majority or b) FG gave a cast-iron guarantee that they would not go into coalition with the Labour Party.

Why would you vote FF?

Is it an excuse of a bad opposition or you think FF are strongest to get through the recession or is it a case you still believe all is hunky-dory in Ireland?
On FF voters, pensioners voted en masse for FF last time. My own mother did and the reason her and her friends did was because of the promise of 300euro pensions, nothing else.
Remember, the old vote more than other age groups. They have been conned too and thats the reason i beleive they were so angry at the medical card issue.

Liam Byrne

donegalfella wrote: »

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Unfortunately, yes. They SHOULDN'T be, but they are.

Apologies to all nuns for the comparison : the difference is that nuns are ethical and have people's well-being in mind.

monosharp

donegalfella wrote: »

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Why in Gods name not ?

We've never had anything remotely like "genuine capitalism" in this country. In my mind, that would be a system where a limited government carries out its proper function of preserving law and order, and leaves the private sector to itself. Problems arise when there is greed in the government, not in the private sector. Private self-interest is a rational and healthy thing.

There has never been genuine capitalism in any country the same way there has never been genuine communism in any country.

Genuine capitalism would be just as evil a notion as Stalinist Russia was, unrivalled and uncontrolled greed. There would be no such thing as any kind of welfare, time off work, sick days, holidays. The very few elite would rule and 80% of the rest of us would be slaves.

OhNoYouDidn't

So here we are, four pages in, and not one person who has admitted voting for Fianna Fail did so because they agreed with their manefesto or though they would make a good government.

I assume this is because FF'ers are running scared at the moment, rather than 40% of the electorate being navel gazers.

El Stuntman

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So here we are, four pages in, and not one person who has admitted voting for Fianna Fail did so because they agreed with their manefesto or though they would make a good government.

synposis of FF-voting argument: 'but shure de udder crowd would be worser!'

(actually sounds like something Bertie himself could have said :rolleyes:)

Permabear

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Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So here we are, four pages in, and not one person who has admitted voting for Fianna Fail did so because they agreed with their manefesto or though they would make a good government.

I assume this is because FF'ers are running scared at the moment, rather than 40% of the electorate being navel gazers.

For some time before the election, the PD manifesto was being implemented through Fianna Fail. Remember when John McGuinness came out claiming their influence was "too much". This stopped in 2004, when Bertie became a socialist.

I voted politically, to ensure that my Ideology had some chance of being reflected in the actions of the Parliment. Granted I never agreed with the prohibition on magic mushrooms.

Interstingly, the lad who voted for Sean Haughey becasue of his local work, is equally as mind boggelling. If Haughey is a goold local politican, then he should be on the council, his resence in the legislature should have nothing to do with his local work, and his local work should not intervene within his role in the legislature.

The locals will tell much. Most of FF votes will be the 30% traditional voter, who would vote for them even if they were committing genocide on a minorty faction of Irish society. I imagine any floting voters, politically motivated voters, and those who lack interest but keep somewhat abreast, will not consider FF.

Moojuice

donegalfella wrote: »

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We have seen the result of rampant capitalism and free-market ideology. Granted its not the minimalist state espoused by some but it was/is a taster and it led to ruin and destruction except for a few elites who always profit from the misery of others. I shudder to think what state the world would be in if there was any minimalist state. We are in thsi mess because there was no oversight or regulation, a key element of free-market thinking. It doesn't work. The neo-cons tried it and believed in it and they have been proven wrong beyond a doubt. People like Donegalfella will vote in people like FF out of blind ideological hatred for ANY left-wing policies and will cling vainly to their conservative and failed beliefs. Its interesting to note that when it all goes to **** and right-wing free market ideology leads to ruin, the world governments turn to socialist ideals.

In answer to the health care question, yes the state has a moral duty to pay the health care costs of those who cannot afford it. If you can afford it then you should pay for it, if you are rich you should pay vastly more tax than someone who is on a lot less or on minimum wage. The rich can pay their way so they should. Regardless of the reason, those who cannot should get help from the government, who should do all they can to ensure that people DONT need their help. Only when we move away from this nasty self-interest that led to the economic crisis can we move forward as a species. Private self-interest is what led to this problem, not (just) Government self-interest.

This country will never rise out of the mire with people like Zanu-FF in charge. I dont think the opposition are particularly great but we have put up with the Governments **** for 11 years,.

Badabing

I voted Fianna Fail 1 and 2 in Dublin South west and i gave Rabbite 3, i could never and will never vote Fine Gael for a couple of reasons, i disagree on the majority of their polices and they harly ever give constructive critisims when on the Telly or radio it's all badger bating.

And in 2002 Brian Hayes was very rude to me and my mother in 2002 at election time looking for votes i will never ever vote for him and the like.

Soldie

Moojuice wrote: »

We have seen the result of rampant capitalism and free-market ideology. Granted its not the minimalist state espoused by some but it was/is a taster and it led to ruin and destruction except for a few elites who always profit from the misery of others. I shudder to think what state the world would be in if there was any minimalist state. We are in thsi mess because there was no oversight or regulation, a key element of free-market thinking. It doesn't work. The neo-cons tried it and believed in it and they have been proven wrong beyond a doubt. People like Donegalfella will vote in people like FF out of blind ideological hatred for ANY left-wing policies and will cling vainly to their conservative and failed beliefs. Its interesting to note that when it all goes to **** and right-wing free market ideology leads to ruin, the world governments turn to socialist ideals.

In answer to the health care question, yes the state has a moral duty to pay the health care costs of those who cannot afford it. If you can afford it then you should pay for it, if you are rich you should pay vastly more tax than someone who is on a lot less or on minimum wage. The rich can pay their way so they should. Regardless of the reason, those who cannot should get help from the government, who should do all they can to ensure that people DONT need their help. Only when we move away from this nasty self-interest that led to the economic crisis can we move forward as a species. Private self-interest is what led to this problem, not (just) Government self-interest.

This country will never rise out of the mire with people like Zanu-FF in charge. I dont think the opposition are particularly great but we have put up with the Governments **** for 11 years,.

Why should those who have worked hard to earn good wages owe more to society than those of have not? Is that the 'equality' that left-wing politics idealises?

I have friends who are living at home while on the dole, mostly using the €204 they receive each week on booze, DVDs, CDs and more. What kind of equality is that?

Those who wish to dump conservative economics in the bin must realise that free-market capitalism is not responsible for this mess, but rather our government's insistence on tampering with it is. If your defence is conceding a lot of goals, do you replace the whole defence or do you see which particular defender isn't contributing?

Permabear

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irish_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

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donegalfella , trust me , i like your style a lot but i think you might be mistaken in thinking fine gael in coalition would be worse than finana fail with whoever , fianna fail are poulist and it was popular to appease the unions and lucrative during the boom , i seriously doubt eamon gilmore or pat rabbitte would have been any worse than bertie was on the benchmarking fiasco and anyways , labour would be more than balanced by fine gael , as has been said on politics.ie ( which i think you would really enjoy by the way ) , the unions dance with labour but go home with fianna fail

Moojuice

Soldie wrote: »

I have friends who are living at home while on the dole, mostly using the €204 they receive each week on booze, DVDs, CDs and more. What kind of equality is that?

I do not agree with that, my point was that those who genuinely CANNOT work or pay medical expenses etc should be looked after. Not wasters who can but dont. Fair enough it is hard to get a job at the moment, but at least if you are out looking the 204 euro is not necessarily going to waste.

I agree with you DonegalFella, personal responsibility is lacking, completely. Starting at the top with the Government and going all the way down to the man/woman on the street. I still dont believe the free market is the way to go; a responsible government working for the people and regulating the markets and banks would be, IMO, ideal. However the Governement has shown that they dont act in anything other than their own interest and for a few other vested interests. The first step is to imbue a sense of personal responsibility in society.

I still do believe that if you can work and make money you should pay more than those who dont (in which case it would be nothing) and those who makes less. If we had a decent proper system, health care would be free, public transport would be cheap and the amount of people reliant on the state would be tiny. I dont think it is good to have people reliant on the state unless it is outside of their control (illness, injury etc etc). If you can work you should work. If you dont have any skills and little education then there should be civil labour, building roads, infrastructure etc for basic pay or for the equivalent amount that is given out as social welfare. Work for the welfare, if you can. At least things will get done then, infrastructure would not cost so much and the country would be kept clean, efficient and running.
There certainly has to be a better way than extremes of either left or right, but it all starts with people taking responsibility and I think sending a clear message to the government, by voting them out, that if they dont deliver then they are out. Have they delivered on their election promises over the years? I dont think so.

Moojuice

donegalfella wrote: »

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Apologies for that, I did not mean that to be as strong or as nasty sounding as I now realise it was.We are pretty ****ed for choice in this country. However, I always saw the PDS as a FF in everything but name. Pro-business and anti-people. But that is just my opinion of them.

Permabear

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Big_Mac

noel farrell wrote: »

ihave never voted FF in any election but i was glad the got back in at the last election so the have to clear up the mess mostly their makeing which would have continued for many years to come only the world down turn which is very bad found them out . i am sorry for all the people who are in thruble and dont know where to turn and we are not near the bottom yet it wil get much worse i have no answer i have to go with the flow like the rest and hope for light at the end of the tunell :mad:

No way in Hell did I vote for those FF muppets. Seriously, we had a Taoiseach who claims he didn't have a bank account when he was the minister for finance, and what about paddy the plasterer? I find it hard to believe that someone in office can be in such dire straits that he has to get 'loans' from 'friends'.
Wasn't it convenient how party money was given to Celia Larkin (I think that's her) to buy her gaffe years ago by Bertie, and all of a sudden it was paid back once the tribunal came sniffing around? Did she pay any interest on this, methinks not

Come on, look at out minister for health? Hardly a shining example of health now is she?

I would love to turn around to all the poeple who voted FF and say 'you've made your bed, now lie in it' but unfortunatley the rest of us have to share the bed too.

Bushalicious wrote: »

I'm just glad that FF are there to reap what they sowed. They are a bunch of con men, always have been, always will be. They are very good at what they do, and that is misleading the public.

+1
Bertie imo was nothing more than a personality and a public face for FF, who everyone liked. Went around, shook some hands kissed some babies, and oh, isn't he wonderful?

At least if they are ou we will have shown the that we will not tollerate them. Let FG and Labour have a go. They cant do any worse than this shower. Besides, as it stands FF will have been in power for 3 terms in a row. Of course they are complacent. They don't have to try anymore.

I agree. I am glad FG didn't get in this time, but for one reason only. If they did, FF would be the first people to turn around and squarely blame FG for the economic downturn, and her cometh the 'See, thats what you get when you vote us out' nonsense. At least FF are soley to blame for the mess that we are in.

Maybe FG won't do a better job, but after so long putting up with FF, a change is as good as a rest.

Macha

donegalfella wrote: »

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It has been proven that free primary healthcare reduces government healthcare costs in its role as preventative medicine.

Whatever about other healthcare, primary healthcare (ie GP) should be free, as it is in the UK.

I don't see how anyone can think that less regulation is the key to a better economy. Even Alan "Free Markets" Greenspan came out an admitted he had been wrong:

In Congressional testimony on October 23, 2008, Greenspan acknowledged that he was "partially" wrong in opposing regulation and stated "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity -- myself especially -- are in a state of shocked disbelief."

Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.” Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) then pressed him to clarify his words. “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working,” Waxman said. “Absolutely, precisely,” Greenspan replied. “You know, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.”

Greenspan admitted fault in opposing regulation of derivatives and acknowledged that financial institutions didn't protect shareholders and investments as well as he expected.

dresden8

donegalfella wrote: »

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A laissez faire system, like we had in the famine?

Perhaps you should read some Dickens as well to see how employers treat their employees when unfettered by government.