The Soccer fan and his short term memory

eagle eye

We've had imo, a lot of silly threads and a lot of craziness lately. None moreso imo than the way people have changed their minds regarding the two former Spurs players that joined the big four clubs this season. And the Managers and their performances have been the subject of some debate as well, some of which is way over the top imo. Anyways I just decided to start this thread but mainly for the managers although I have this bit to say first.

I remember the Liverpool vs Stoke thread just 17 days ago. Most people expected Robbie Keane to start due to his recent very good run of form. When the match finished scoreless, most Liverpool fans were unhappy that Robbie Keane did not at least get a run on the day.
We go forward two weeks, and he is the biggest transfer flop of the season.
Lets go back again and Untied fans were remaining very tight lipped on Dimitar Berbatov as they had all said that he was going to be huge at Manchester United after all the furore around his very late signing with the club in the last transfer window. When United fans are quiet its imo a sign that all is not well and they are hoping against hope that things will work out.
Forward on one month and its Berb this and Berba that and dare anyone say a word against the man. Not that they should in his current form.

They would be the two main examples of incredible short term memory of the football fan.

Basically what I'm saying is that players are constantly under scrutiny and one bad game can change a huge percentage of minds on what or how good someone is.


The Rafa Benitez story is another example of this. Liverpool had their best start to a campaign for many years and all was rosy, but suddenly they draw a few games and end up level on points at the top of the table and all hell breaks loose. Rafa must go, he isn't good enough. These minds have changed without Liverpool losing a game. If we look at Liverpools results over the last five years at this stage of the campaign with 22 games played, 2005, 37 pts 2006, 45 pts 2007 40 pts 2008 40 pts 2009 47 pts
Now at Chelsea a manager that most people respected and thought would do really well in the Premier League arrived in the form of Luiz Felipe Scolari, a man who hadn't managed at club level since 2001. A lot of people expected him to do well at Chelsea despite his long absence from club football. Lets have a look over the last five seasons it reads after 22 games 2005 55 points 2006 61 pts 2007 48pts, 2008 47 pts, 2009 45 pts.

And how about the great Arsene Wenger and how he has done over the same period 2005, 48 pts 2006, 37 pts 2007 39 pts 2008 51 pts 2009 41 pts

And lets finally have a look at Alex Ferguson 2005, 44 pts 2006, 45 pts 2007 54 pts 2008 51 pts 2009 50 pts

And for all the doubters of Villa lets look at their record over the same time frame 2005, 28 pts 2006, 25 pts 2007 26 pts 2008 39 pts 2009 44 pts

To make it easy for you now we will put them all together

Liverpool 2005, 37 pts 2006, 45 pts 2007 40 pts 2008 40 pts 2009 47 pts (4 year average excluding this year of 40.5 points)
Chelsea 2005 55 points 2006 61 pts 2007 48pts, 2008 47 pts, 2009 45 pts (4 year average excluding this year of 52,75)
Man Utd 2005, 44 pts 2006, 45 pts 2007 54 pts 2008 51 pts 2009 50 pts(4 year average excluding this year of 48.5)
Arsenal 2005, 48 pts 2006, 37 pts 2007 39 pts 2008 51 pts 2009 41 pts(4 year average excluding this year of 43.75)
A. Villa 2005, 28 pts 2006, 25 pts 2007 26 pts 2008 39 pts 2009 44 pts(4 year average excluding this year of 29.5)

I think thats what people should be looking at when deciding how a manager is doing at the club, not one season or in some cases six games.
Have you heard United fans calling for Alex Ferguson to go at any stage over the last five years. I don't think so.
Have you heard anyone calling for Arsene Wenger to go over the same timeframe, I don't think so.
Benitez and Liverpool are having their best season over the last five years and people are screaming for his head.
Scolari has some people complaining but not to the same extent as those complaining about Benitez.

Sometimes Soccer is a silly game, and sometimes soccer fans are silly people

5starpool

Ever generalise much?

From a Liverpool point of view, SOME people are criticising Rafa for not starting Keane every wee. SOME people are saying he should go and we won't win the league with him in charge.

Others are liable to keep trusting the man and see where it all ends up. At the start of the season I wasn of the opinion that if Liverpool had another league campaign where we stuttered and were well off the pace in January then maybe it might be time to consider other options, but that hasn't happened. I think that unless things go totally off the rails for the rest of the season that we should keep the faith in the man given what has transpired so far.

Also, a thread saying that football fans can be fickle? That's an unusual one.

Xavi6

Football fans are reactionary by nature. Nobody likes to lose but when you do there has to be someone to blame.

That's just the way of the football world, and certainly isn't just confined to these forums so cheap shots at the general poster is pretty pointless.

shane86

My favourite is Nani opinions.

Despite a reasonably decent run last season the Man U heads labelled him as sh1t. Then, around the time of the CL win, he became a rising star, and continued so even through this current unspectcular season until about November. Still reckon he has the makings of a class player myself.


My second fave is Anderson. All last season I rated him as sh1t, because he was, and the reds only caught up on the fact this season. To think there is a chant last season that says he "sh1ts on Fabregas"....FFS like :pac: :pac: :pac:

I remember the Liverpool vs Stoke thread just 17 days ago. Most people expected Robbie Keane to start due to his recent very good run of form. When the match finished scoreless, most Liverpool fans were unhappy that Robbie Keane did not at least get a run on the day.
We go forward two weeks, and he is the biggest transfer flop of the season

Didnt he have the awful game with Preston in between? Patience is wearing thin tbh.

Mikeyt086

What kind of reaction did you expect to this?

Everyone to go, "Actually, yeah, thats me in a nutshelll. Great work!"

This is the kind of thing you think to yourself, giggle, maybe say to someone in the pub. But its very general to be posting on a forum.

Also, to the post above ^^^ I like Nani at United, i think he will grow. I love Anderson, and NOBODY thinks he is ****. So your wrong, pac-man smiley.

LuckyLloyd

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Also, to the post above ^^^ I like Nani at United, i think he will grow. I love Anderson, and NOBODY thinks he is ****. So your wrong, pac-man smiley.

From the Bolton match thread:

Chong wrote: »

Good Riddance to anderson, really dont rate him at all anymore.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Awesome. 15 games to become a legend and 20 more to go back to being a standard twenty year old professional.

.

monkey9

In fairness to Eagle Eye, i don't think he's generalising. He's just going on what has been said in threads.
I don't mean to sound patronising, but i think some people are unable to form opinions of their own and just go along with what the red tops tell them.
I mean, Keane has been getting slated all season here, Berbatov hasn't. Just like the way it has been in the media. You hear people spouting rubbish about Rafa which is just a re-hash of what was said in that day's papers
Take for example, Utd fans. Whenever a manager (who isn't Ferguson) says something controversial or outlandish, they suddenly turn into armchair psychologists simply because the red tops came up with the term 'mind games' in the mid nineties. So when Ferguson says something, it's mind games. When another manager says something, he's cracking up.
Dunphy last year after a Champions league match said that Rafa was turning Albert Riera into a Dirk Kuyt. i.e sacrificing his attacking skills by focusing more on his defensive side. Total bo!!ox, but typical Dunphy sh!te. The very next day, someone on the Liverpool thread said that Rafa was turning Riera into a Dirk Kuyt.
It's just the way it is. Some people just can't think for themselves.

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

I mean, Keane has been getting slated all season here, Berbatov hasn't.

That's hardly Berbatovs fault, he kept his head down, improved every game and is starting to show why 30+ million was spent on him, I honestly don't think we will see the best of Berbs until next season. Personally even when Berbs wasn't scoring or assisting his touch was a joy to watch, he is and was one of my favourite players to watch, his style is unique and very easy on the eye.

monkey9

Boggles wrote: »

That's hardly Berbatovs fault, he kept his head down, improved every game and is starting to show why 30+ million was spent on him, I honestly don't think we will see the best of Berbs until next season. Personally even when Berbs wasn't scoring or assisting his touch was a joy to watch, he is and was one of my favourite players to watch, his style is unique and very easy on the eye.

I'm not saying it's Berbatov's fault. I'm talking about the media focusing on Keane from the very start and it's just snowballed from there

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

I'm not saying it's Berbatov's fault. I'm talking about the media focusing on Keane from the very start and it's just snowballed from there

It's not just the media faults, alot of Scouse fans have turned on him aswell.

Personally I think Keane will be a success at Liverpool but it won't be under Rafa Benitez.

astrofool

Because it's all very dramatic, and gives people stuff to talk about. Otherwise football would be very boring.

You could argue that football fans have the longest memory of all, given their propensity to big up past glories.

Jazzy

astrofool wrote: »

propensity

where did YOU get that word? :pac:

Headshot

Boggles wrote: »

It's not just the media faults, alot of Scouse fans have turned on him aswell.

Personally I think Keane will be a success at Liverpool but it won't be under Rafa Benitez.

ya i second that

its probly very frustrating for him

go from one season playing every game and then going to pool and hasn't played a full 90 mins yet

and some games not even coming on from the bench

Spud83

There are a number of reason why Keane is getting more press attention then Berbatov.

1) Keane is getting subbed off nearly every game he plays
2) Keane is being left on the bench for the entirety of games when Liverpool have been looking for a goal.
3) Keane has been left out of match day squads
4) Rafa "dodging" question on Keane.
5) Fergie has defended Berbatov to the hilt any time he has been questioned.
6) United have been winning, with Berbtov scoring goals recently.
7) The media are trying to bait Rafa into another "rant"
8) Liverpool at the moment look on the way down, United on the way up. The media always prefer kicking people on a slide.
9) Rumors about Keane being a Parry buy and not a Rafa buy. Which has led to the contract stuff.

Basically the Keane story has been given legs every week, while the Berbatov story hasn't.

As for short term memory fans. Yes some fans have a very short memory and even shorter patience. However its very easy to ignore these people. Why do these people opinions matter to you? Surely all that matters to you is your own opinion.

PHB

Personally I think Fergie killed the story every time he was asked, defending him against all attacks, including quoting pro zone stats to say he isnt lazy.

Rafa doesn't operate that way with the press though, so its allowed the media to kinda run with it.

Also Berbatov has responded to the criticism (was world class last night) while Keane hasn't yet.

Mr Alan

football fans are all cunts.

i actually truely mean that & include myself.

Spud83

Mr Alan wrote: »

football fans are all cunts.

i actually truely mean that & include myself.

LOL.

Mr Alan goes past personal abuse and moves onto full on forum abuse.

Mr Alan

its true though.

and the ones that are the worst are the ones that "pretend" they are being reasonable-and unbiased.

Spud83

Mr Alan wrote: »

its true though.

and the ones that are the worst are the ones that "pretend" they are being reasonable-and unbiased.

Hey leave me out of this.

spockety

Boggles wrote: »

It's not just the media faults, alot of Scouse fans have turned on him aswell.

Have you got a link to that survey, please?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Jazzy

Mr Alan wrote: »

its true though.

and the ones that are the worst are the ones that "pretend" they are being reasonable-and unbiased.

i dont pretend anything.

nice way of trying to say that your opinion actually does have weight though.