Leaving car running after driving for Turbo's sake

BoardsRanger

OK folks, the mother got a new 2L TDI golf and i was just wondering whats your opinion on leaving the car running at the end of ones journey to let the oil circulate through the turbo?
I do this with my passat, but then again, i would be driving it harder where as my mother would not. So my question is, is there a need for my mother to do the same and if so, for how long? cheers

stealthyspeeder

BoardsRanger wrote: »

OK folks, the mother got a new 2L TDI golf and i was just wondering whats your opinion on leaving the car running at the end of ones journey to let the oil circulate through the turbo?
I do this with my passat, but then again, i would be driving it harder where as my mother would not. So my question is, is there a need for my mother to do the same and if so, for how long? cheers

I would leave it running idle for about 2 mins on an average drive (revometer between 2 and 4 thousand rev's) if I was driving a bit more enthusiastically (revs in the 5-6 thousands) i would leave it five minutes, my car has a sensor in it whereby if the turbo needs circulated and I dont have the time, the engine will keep running after I turn it off to allow the turbo cool properly

Ferris

I know that both my da and my uncle (Audi and merc diesels respectively) were told to run their engines for 30s or so after finishing a journey. The turbo's in your passats 'float' on a fluid bearing under engine oil pressure.

The main problem occurs when exhaust gases are pushing the turbine before oil pressure builds up or after it has dissapated. The turbine's rotor is then moving while in contact with the housing of the turbo with little or no lubrication. This is where the wear occurs, it always happens to an extent but is mitigated by taking it easy on startup and shut down.

Try explaining all that to your mammy:P!

Owen

I wouldn't bother. The manufacturers have built these cars, and don't expect people to be sitting in the multistorey, late for dinner with the wife, waiting for the turbo. The Glanza brigade usually have turbo timers for this sort of thing, but on a standard car like a 1.9Tdi, I'd have no issue just turning it off.

Quazzie

On a Tdi it is basically unnecessary. I can see the benefit of the higher spec turbos on Supra/Skylines etc but in a Tdi I wouldn't bother.

BoardsRanger

Ferris wrote: »

I know that both my da and my uncle (Audi and merc diesels respectively) were told to run their engines for 30s or so after finishing a journey. The turbo's in your passats 'float' on a fluid bearing under engine oil pressure.

The main problem occurs when exhaust gases are pushing the turbine before oil pressure builds up or after it has dissapated. The turbine's rotor is then moving while in contact with the housing of the turbo with little or no lubrication. This is where the wear occurs, it always happens to an extent but is mitigated by taking it easy on startup and shut down.

Try explaining all that to your mammy:P!

I had enough difficulty trying to explain to her to wait for the glow plug symbol to turn off before turning it over!! (her first diesel)

Well i checked the manual and it stated nothing about letting the engine run after driving. I called the dealer she bought it from just there and he said 30 seconds.

Ferris

BoardsRanger wrote: »

I had enough difficulty trying to explain to her to wait for the glow plug symbol to turn off before turning it over!! (her first diesel)

Well i checked the manual and it stated nothing about letting the engine run after driving. I called the dealer she bought it from just there and he said 30 seconds.

FAR more important to buy the correct grade of VW approved (not necessarily VW supplied) oil. Don't know if its semi or fully synthetic for the 2L tdi but its very thin. (i.e. not 10W40)

NiSmO

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Ferris

NiSmO wrote: »

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Sounds like a manufacturing fault more than a problem with you're driving as your car is nearly new. Also does the TSI not cool its turbo with coolant, also i thought it had an electric water pump that pumped after the engine was shut down. AFAIK new TD BMW's are done this way also.

voxpop

BoardsRanger wrote: »

I had enough difficulty trying to explain to her to wait for the glow plug symbol to turn off before turning it over!! (her first diesel)

I would concentrate on making sure she puts diesel rather than petrol into it when she goes to fill up

Unless your ma is ragging the sh1te out of the car - i dont think she need worry about he turbo. By the time she has got parked the turbo wont be spinning anyway.

Atomic Pineapple

NiSmO wrote: »

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I've heard this happening to a good few TSI's , maybe an idea to fit a turbo timer to it?

BoardsRanger

voxpop wrote: »

I would concentrate on making sure she puts diesel rather than petrol into it when she goes to fill up

Unless your ma is ragging the sh1te out of the car - i dont think she need worry about he turbo. By the time she has got parked the turbo wont be spinning anyway.

Haha - thats was the first thing i had to take care of - http://www.misfuellingprevention.co.uk/ . Because it wasnt a question of if she would put petrol in it- it was when she would do it.

Yeah i was thinking that too, most likely in the last few minutes of her regular trip, with traffic coming into our town etc, i doubt the turbo would be spooling up that much.

tossy

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

On a Tdi it is basically unnecessary. I can see the benefit of the higher spec turbos on Supra/Skylines etc but in a Tdi I wouldn't bother.

A TDI turbo boosts at pressures that would make a skyline/supra/Glanza turbo cower.

I would always recommend leaving the car run for a short while after a spirited drive,i would also just advise to drive the car under the boost limit for the last few miles of the journey.

It also goes without saying that you shouldn't drive it hard until the turbo has had time to warm up properly.

There is a lot to be said for turbo timers,in all their various form for example the likes of the audi S3/s4 etc come with an aux pump that cools the turbo down for a bout 10 minutes after you have knocked it off.

Dexters16

dont think it would matter much at all if ya ran it or not, small turbos in them diesel's! evo's only need 20 seconds or that to make sure the oil ain't baked into the turbo, unless she is butchering it around constant for an hour i wouldnt waste her time! as a previous poster said, if it was an issue the manufacturer would put a turbo timer in it!

HashSlinging

Does it say in the owners manual that you need to wait 30 seconds or whatever.... :rolleyes:

cashmni1

I have a TDi and there is nothing in the manual about runing to cool the turbo. I generaly don't bother myself.
I had a Peugeot 2.0 Hdi before this TDi, and you could hear a small pump cooling the turbo after engine shut off - 20 to 30 seconds or so. I cannot hear that in the TDi.
While it would do no harm, I don't think it will make that much of a difference unless she likes drifting into the carpark!!

tossy

I wouldn't take the owners manual as any kind of gospel on how to look after your car,the only purpose the owners manual serves is shiny pictures and to tell the numbskulls how to get the radio to 2fm

maidhc

tossy wrote: »

I wouldn't take the owners manual as any kind of gospel on how to look after your car,the only purpose the owners manual serves is shiny pictures and to tell the numbskulls how to get the radio to 2fm

Toyota Avensis manual recommends it for the D4D AND there is sticker on the sunvisor telling you to idle the engine also... it suggests up to 2 minutes from a high load run IIRC.

peasant

There are good reasons why you should be kind to your turbo.
1) it gets very, very hot
2) it spins at incredible speeds, up to 100,000 rpm

scenario one:
You drive a long distance and you drive hard. As a result your turbo will nearly start to glow. Let the engine idle and the turbo cool before you shut it down. This is not to make it cool faster, to the contrary, you want to cool it slower, so it doesn't warp from the sudden shock from cooling from glowing to nothing in a few seconds.

scenario two:
You shut down the engine from high revs (eg blipping the gas just before you come to a stop) Your engine stops, so does the oil pump. Yet the turbo is still spinning (it takes a while to come to a standstill from 100,000 rpm) but now starved of oil. Most turbos need oil to act as a lubricant in the bearings, in fact oil IS the bearing. Remove the oil flow and the fast spinning turbo will burn the remaining oil droplets to coal, all the while grinding itself into its seats. Cue the "blown" turbo within a few weeks.

Rowley Birkin QC

peasant wrote: »

There are ......

.Cue the "blown" turbo within a few weeks.

I have tried and tried and tried to explain all this to my oul lad for nearly 2 years now about his TDi A4, to no avail. Any suggestions?

Whats the cost of a repacement tubo? That might do the trick.:p

NiSmO

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lightening

Jaysus, I never do this, should I? Its a petrol 2ltr car with a turbo and an embarrassingly loud dump valve. (ok not boy racer loud)

Ferris

bigkev49 wrote: »

I have tried and tried and tried to explain all this to my oul lad for nearly 2 years now about his TDi A4, to no avail. Any suggestions?

Whats the cost of a repacement tubo? That might do the trick.:p

I got a rebuilt one in from the UK for £450, i've heard that there a company that does it here for less now. Fitting takes a few hours for a good mechanic.

.Longshanks.

I've a 1.6 turbo petrol and the dealer told me i only need to let the turbo cool down if i have been giving it beans

S.I.R

ned78 wrote: »

I wouldn't bother. The manufacturers have built these cars, and don't expect people to be sitting in the multistorey, late for dinner with the wife, waiting for the turbo. The Glanza brigade usually have turbo timers for this sort of thing, but on a standard car like a 1.9Tdi, I'd have no issue just turning it off.

i agree, its a low pressure turbo, designed to be used on a daily basis...


unless you regularly where doing extreme milage its not a big issue...


until you hear the turbo begin to give up, but chances are thats after respectable milage, like all vw's do ( even the poorly built fox's )

Biro

bigkev49 wrote: »

I have tried and tried and tried to explain all this to my oul lad for nearly 2 years now about his TDi A4, to no avail. Any suggestions?

Whats the cost of a repacement tubo? That might do the trick.:p

The fact that it's fine after 2 years is more testament to the thinking that you don't need to let it idle for normal drivers. I'd say only 2% of TD drivers out there idle their car before switching off. If you drive the ring out of it then you need to, but if not then there's no need. Sure you'll prolong the life of the turbo if you do it all the time, but prolonging the life from maybe 150,000 miles to 250,000 miles is only good to some people! Why bother wasting your time doing that on a brand new car?

maidhc

Biro wrote: »

The fact that it's fine after 2 years is more testament to the thinking that you don't need to let it idle for normal drivers. I'd say only 2% of TD drivers out there idle their car before switching off. If you drive the ring out of it then you need to, but if not then there's no need. Sure you'll prolong the life of the turbo if you do it all the time, but prolonging the life from maybe 150,000 miles to 250,000 miles is only good to some people! Why bother wasting your time doing that on a brand new car?

Depends on how long you want to keep the car, and realistically 150,000 isn't massive milage on a car.

Biro

maidhc wrote: »

Depends on how long you want to keep the car, and realistically 150,000 isn't massive milage on a car.

Yes, but how many people buy a car brand new and put 150,000 miles on it? Not many.

peasant

An average driver would rarely drive so hard that the turbo is red hot, therefore idling is not a must. But remember to idle on the one or two occassions where the turbo was strained.

In day to day driving it still is a good idea to give the turbo a chance to spool down before you cut the oil supply by switching it off.
A good way to do this is to unbuckle, switch off the radio, gather your handbag/jacket/whatever ...the whole procedure you normally perform before leaving the car ...with the engine still running. Make turning the key and taking it out the last thing you routinely do before you leave the car. That way you won't waste any time and still give the turbo some TLC.

cashmni1

tossy wrote: »

I wouldn't take the owners manual as any kind of gospel on how to look after your car,the only purpose the owners manual serves is shiny pictures and to tell the numbskulls how to get the radio to 2fm

I never said the manual was gospel.
Although I never knew that that was the only use for a manual. Interesting.

BoardsRanger

peasant wrote: »

An average driver would rarely drive so hard that the turbo is red hot, therefore idling is not a must. But remember to idle on the one or two occassions where the turbo was strained.

So in my case, i will be the only one who needs to leave it running after driving it as i highly doubt the mother will be giving it socks!:D

peasant

BoardsRanger wrote: »

So in my case, i will be the only one who needs to leave it running after driving it as i highly doubt the mother will be giving it socks!:D

just tell you mother to sort her handbag first and then switch off the engine ...it'll idle plenty

Ta me anseo

Years ago I had a petrol turbo charade (great car!!!! ) which has it's turbo seize due to previous owner not allowing any cooling time at all. Upon inspection the bearings in the turbo were completely coked up and very well seized!

I will always leave the turbo cool off after any trip. Turbo diesels run a little cooler than petrols so perhaps it may be as much of an issue....

Matt Simis

peasant wrote: »

There are good reasons why you should be kind to your turbo.
1) it gets very, very hot
2) it spins at incredible speeds, up to 100,000 rpm

scenario one:
You drive a long distance and you drive hard. As a result your turbo will nearly start to glow. Let the engine idle and the turbo cool before you shut it down. This is not to make it cool faster, to the contrary, you want to cool it slower, so it doesn't warp from the sudden shock from cooling from glowing to nothing in a few seconds.

scenario two:
You shut down the engine from high revs (eg blipping the gas just before you come to a stop) Your engine stops, so does the oil pump. Yet the turbo is still spinning (it takes a while to come to a standstill from 100,000 rpm) but now starved of oil. Most turbos need oil to act as a lubricant in the bearings, in fact oil IS the bearing. Remove the oil flow and the fast spinning turbo will burn the remaining oil droplets to coal, all the while grinding itself into its seats. Cue the "blown" turbo within a few weeks.

Of course you should be nice to turbos, but most VAGs use Water Cooling for their turbos. My old S4 had an afterrun pump that I modded (as did many) to come on at a lower temp than stock to pump water around the turbos (BiTurbo) to cool them. It also pumped it in reverse of the main water pump to remove any bubbles and air pockets.

The Phaeton audibly has this more conservative temp built in (you can hear it running for 2min after shutdown) and I would expect a new Golf would be the same. They have to allow for most people being morons, as stated above!

Instead of sitting around stationary with the engine running (which isnt recommended on diesels anyway), just smoothly coast for the last 30sec of your journing.