First time buyers Seminars

Fozzie Bear

Has anybody else attended one of these seminars around the country?

Myself and Mrs Fozzie attended one in the Radisson Hotel here in Galway city last monday night. There was approx 200+ people in attendance and we were treated to an evening of various people getting up and telling us we should buy NOW! The market apparently has reached the bottom and prices will start to rise again in the coming months. It was laughable to my ears and I hope the other people too. First we had Frank Fahy TD waffle on about the current state of things and how prices were soooo good. Then we had an estate agent, mortgage advisor and bank manager all get up and basically try to convince us that now was a great time to buy. It was the most one sided, biased loads of bull I have ever heard.

The fact that (depending on what you read) we can expect to loose another 100,000+ jobs in the coming two years, the economy will contract by up to 5% this year and there will be 100's of thousands on the dole escaped our speakers. The more people that loose their jobs, the more mortgages will be defaulted, the more houses will be put up for sale and the more prices will be forced down.

It's irresponsible for these people to be advising people to get into that kind of debt with the way things are now. I knows it their job and in their best interested to do so but they will not be landed with a mortgage they might not be able to pay in 6 months time.

My advice is don't attend the seminars. They are a load of bullsh1t!

ZYX

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

It's irresponsible for these people to be advising people to get into that kind of debt with the way things are now. I knows it their job and in their best interested to do so but they will not be landed with a mortgage they might not be able to pay in 6 months time.

My advice is don't attend the seminars. They are a load of bullsh1t!

I am not saying they are right to buy now, but, even if you take it that 100,000 jobs will be lost this year that means that 95% of people in work today will still be in work this time next year. Even with an average 10% pay cut, average pay will be about €41500. Interest rates will probably be there lowest ever. For many people the next few years will be pretty good. The only reason for them not to buy is if they feel the particular house they want (not average house price) will fall further.

spockety

did you, or anyone else at the seminars stand up and take them up on the stuff they were saying?

ionapaul

Discussion on this seminar here: http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14766&start=120

punchestown

ZYX wrote: »

. Even with an average 10% pay cut, average pay will be about €41500.

Is this in the legal or medical profession? Average pay in this country has never reached €40,000 so how after a 10% cut, you expect the average wage to still be in the low 40's is beyond my ordinary level grade d1 maths!

ZYX

punchestown wrote: »

Is this in the legal or medical profession? Average pay in this country has never reached €40,000 so how after a 10% cut, you expect the average wage to still be in the low 40's is beyond my ordinary level grade d1 maths!

According to CSO
"Across all sectors of the economy, employees earned an average of €19.47 per hour in March
2006. Men earned €20.59 and women earned €18.22."
€19.47 X 40 hours a week X 52 weeks a year is €40,497. In the last 3 years wages probably grew by 15% or more which would bring current wages to €46,572

jetski

ZXY isnt far off right.... there are some little gems for sale at the moment. its the fear factor thats on the buyers side at the moment.... once thats gone the asking price will be firm.

punchestown

ZYX wrote: »

According to CSO
"Across all sectors of the economy, employees earned an average of €19.47 per hour in March
2006. Men earned €20.59 and women earned €18.22."
€19.47 X 40 hours a week X 52 weeks a year is €40,497. tIn the last 3 years wages probably grew by 15% or more which would bring current wages to €46,572

Ah the same cso as below?
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/indearnings.htm

2006 €624.45 x 52 weeks of the year = €32,471.40
That was the average industrial wage for 2006. In the last 3 years wages probably grew by 15% or more which would bring current wages to €37,500 which if there were cuts of 10% would leave an average of €33,750!

ZYX

punchestown wrote: »

Ah the same cso as below?
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/indearnings.htm

2006 €624.45 x 52 weeks of the year = €32,471.40
That was the average industrial wage for 2006. In the last 3 years wages probably grew by 15% or more which would bring current wages to €37,500 which if there were cuts of 10% would leave an average of €33,750!

No it is not the same. You are talking about industrial wages. This applies to about 20% of employees. I am talking about the average for 100% of employees.

Fozzie Bear

spockety wrote: »

did you, or anyone else at the seminars stand up and take them up on the stuff they were saying?

No. It did not help that there was no mic for the crowd to use so those that did ask questions ended up trying to shout over the heads of the people in front and the person being questioned not being able to hear them. Lots of repeating things and shouting. Think it put people off asking tbh.

spockety

Sweet freakin' jebus.. Frank Fahey's register of interests..
No wonder he is talking it all up! :rolleyes:


Dáil Register of Interests 1 Jan 2007 - 31 Dec 2007. FAHEY, Frank
1. Occupational Income
(1) Teacher on secondment: Gort Community School, Co. Galway,
(2) Rental income from properties, income from capital gains on sale of property and shareholdings.
2. Shares in Eircom, Bank of Ireland, Irish Life & Permanent, Kingspan, Grafton, Worldspread and McInerney Properties.
3. Directorships Nil
4.Land
(1) 2 apts Castlerea, Co. Roscommon: letting;
(2) Apartment 8A, 16 Eglinton Court, Galway: letting;
(3) House at Kilbeacanty, Gort: letting;
(4) Apartment at Dun Aengus, New Docks, Galway: letting;
(5) House at Dun na Coirribe, Galway: letting;
(6) House at Liscannor, Co. Clare: letting;
(7) House at Rinawade Close, Leixlip: letting;
(8) Shareholding in apartment at Dun na Coirribe, Galway;
(9) Shareholding in extended family owned properties at Moydrum, Athlone: letting;
(10) Shareholding 4 Apts & Shop, Lower Gerald Street, Limerick: letting;
(11) Shareholding in Sage Construction Co. Ltd.;
(12) Shareholding in retail unit, two offices and warehouse at Crowe Street, Gort;
(13) House at Jumeirah Estates, Dubai;
(14) Dwelling house at The Grove, Crowe Street;
(15) Shareholding in apartment at Starthmore Road and one apartment at Tappan Street, Boston, Massachusetts: shareholding in Fahey Higgins L.L.C. Boston;
(16) Five apartments owned in partnership at Rue Paul-Emile, Janson 1000, ten apartments owned in partnership at Rue Du Sceptre 1015, Brussels;
(17) Apartment at Chancery Lane, Dublin 2;
(18) Apartment at Cathedral Place, Limerick: letting;
(19) House and site at Villefranche, France;
(20) Deposit paid and contract signed on property at Porto De Mos, deposit paid at Lagos and Mongadoha Lameira, Alcantarilha, Portugal;
(21) Apartment at Irishtown, Dublin.

The_Conductor

ZYX wrote: »

According to CSO
"Across all sectors of the economy, employees earned an average of €19.47 per hour in March
2006. Men earned €20.59 and women earned €18.22."
€19.47 X 40 hours a week X 52 weeks a year is €40,497. In the last 3 years wages probably grew by 15% or more which would bring current wages to €46,572

How about €19.47 by an average of 37.5 hours a week, by an average of 46 paid weeks per year (average for those paid hourly wages, including professional contractors), by 10% (increases under Sustaining Progress in the Private Sector, over a 27 month period, with the first payment due on 1.09.06). The first payment due under the new wage agreement, Towards 2016, was due to be paid on 1.12.08, but there was/is an agreed 3 month freeze in the private sector, and a 9 month freeze in the public sector (ESB nothwithstanding......)

Comes to an average annual wage of €33,585.75 rising to just shy of €37k by January of 2009.

These are average annual wages for those paid on an hourly basis, including all professional contractors in all sectors including the IT and medical sectors, but it is not considered to be the 'industrial wage', which focuses on sectoral employment.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

The_Conductor

Re: the first time buyers seminars- its a total disgrace that a Junior Minister was permitted to stand up and attempt to influence an audience, some of whom are probably impressionable young people- or worse still, older people who have stupid faith in their local gombeen politician. Has anyone tried to bringg the national media into this travesty? Surely the Sunday Times might be interested in how their article has been commuted into a glowing endorsement of the Galway property market in particular?

Duckjob

I sincerely hope people are wise to this, I really do.

It would be great if somebody had a transcript of the 'impartial' advice being given out to post up here. Interesting to see how their patter would stand up to some cold-light-of-day analysis once the slickness is stripped away.

If people want to buy, it should be because they have weighed up their own circumstances and decided that they can comfortably live with any future market movements, not because some self-serving conmen are applying the same old scaremongering tricks to convince them the market is about to shoot up again.

ZYX

smccarrick wrote: »

How about €19.47 by an average of 37.5 hours a week, by an average of 46 paid weeks per year (average for those paid hourly wages, including professional contractors), by 10% (increases under Sustaining Progress in the Private Sector, over a 27 month period, with the first payment due on 1.09.06). The first payment due under the new wage agreement, Towards 2016, was due to be paid on 1.12.08, but there was/is an agreed 3 month freeze in the private sector, and a 9 month freeze in the public sector (ESB nothwithstanding......)

Comes to an average annual wage of €33,585.75 rising to just shy of €37k by January of 2009.

You aresaying the average Irish person works 37.5 hours a week! The real figure is 45 hours. Only Civil Servants work 37.5 hours. You are also saying Irish workers get no holiday pay! Really!

smccarrick wrote: »

These are average annual wages for those paid on an hourly basis, including all professional contractors in all sectors including the IT and medical sectors,

Says who?
"Estimates of average hourly earnings are derived by dividing estimates of the gross monthly
earnings by estimates of the total hours paid in the month at the level of the individual employee."

ZYX

spockety wrote: »

Sweet freakin' jebus.. Frank Fahey's register of interests..
No wonder he is talking it all up! :rolleyes:


Dáil Register of Interests 1 Jan 2007 - 31 Dec 2007. FAHEY, Frank
1. Occupational Income
(1) Teacher on secondment: Gort Community School, Co. Galway,
(2) Rental income from properties, income from capital gains on sale of

The most interesting thing here is his payment as a teacher. This is a job he has not done in years and will probably never do again. However he has not resigned. So not only is he stopping someone else getting a permanent job, he is entitled to the difference between the amount he would have earned (was he still a teacher) and the amount his replacement gets. This goes straight to Frank Fahey's back pocket. It is legal but it shows his snout is deep in the trough.

The_Conductor

ZYX wrote: »

The most interesting thing here is his payment as a teacher. This is a job he has not done in years and will probably never do again. However he has not resigned. So not only is he stopping someone else getting a permanent job, he is entitled to the difference between the amount he would have earned (was he still a teacher) and the amount his replacement gets. This goes straight to Frank Fahey's back pocket. It is legal but it shows his snout is deep in the trough.

Its an anamoly that really should be addressed.
It dates back to foundation of the state where a lot of the original TDs were teachers by profession, but did not know whether they would be elected for a second (or subsequent) terms. The teachers unions have been allowed get away with daylight robbery on this one......... literally........

Senna

spockety wrote: »

4.Land
(1) 2 apts Castlerea, Co. Roscommon: letting;
(2) Apartment 8A, 16 Eglinton Court, Galway: letting;
(3) House at Kilbeacanty, Gort: letting;
(4) Apartment at Dun Aengus, New Docks, Galway: letting;
(5) House at Dun na Coirribe, Galway: letting;
(6) House at Liscannor, Co. Clare: letting;
(7) House at Rinawade Close, Leixlip: letting;
(8) Shareholding in apartment at Dun na Coirribe, Galway;
(9) Shareholding in extended family owned properties at Moydrum, Athlone: letting;
(10) Shareholding 4 Apts & Shop, Lower Gerald Street, Limerick: letting;
(11) Shareholding in Sage Construction Co. Ltd.;
(12) Shareholding in retail unit, two offices and warehouse at Crowe Street, Gort;
(13) House at Jumeirah Estates, Dubai;
(14) Dwelling house at The Grove, Crowe Street;
(15) Shareholding in apartment at Starthmore Road and one apartment at Tappan Street, Boston, Massachusetts: shareholding in Fahey Higgins L.L.C. Boston;
(16) Five apartments owned in partnership at Rue Paul-Emile, Janson 1000, ten apartments owned in partnership at Rue Du Sceptre 1015, Brussels;
(17) Apartment at Chancery Lane, Dublin 2;
(18) Apartment at Cathedral Place, Limerick: letting;
(19) House and site at Villefranche, France;
(20) Deposit paid and contract signed on property at Porto De Mos, deposit paid at Lagos and Mongadoha Lameira, Alcantarilha, Portugal;
(21) Apartment at Irishtown, Dublin.

I'd love to know how much that site and house in Villefranche cost, its a very small and exclusive area. I'd say a .25 acre would be up in the millions.


I hope he is mortgaged to the hilt for everyone of these and all his current tenants move out. He is an example of all that is wrong with this country, politicians that are only interested in benefiting themselves and their buddies. I've no problem with people buying houses now, yes houses are cheaper and people need homes, but dont stand there as an elected official, who should be looking after the interest of the general public, and telling them the market is at the bottom when he knows it is not.

The_Conductor

ZYX wrote: »

You aresaying the average Irish person works 37.5 hours a week! The real figure is 45 hours. Only Civil Servants work 37.5 hours. You are also saying Irish workers get no holiday pay! Really!

Says who?
"Estimates of average hourly earnings are derived by dividing estimates of the gross monthly
earnings by estimates of the total hours paid in the month at the level of the individual employee."

I should perhaps have rephrased that- the average Irish person is paid for working 37.5 hours a week. I'm not aware of anyone, without any exception, who doesn't work more than this (the civil servants you mention are obliged to be physically at their desks for 35 hours, on lunch or breaks off the clock for another 5, and anyone from EO and upwards probably works an additional 5-7 again- averaging well over 45 hours- its similar to everywhere else- but they only get paid for 35.

The calculation of average hourly earnings are from publications that Professor Dennis Cunniffe from NUIM did for the ESRI (Colm McCarthy who writes in the Indo also uses similar methodology (and is also formerly of the ESRI)).

S.

Duckjob

It's important for would-be first time buyers to realise that these are soulless people, utterly devoid of any sort of conscience. If they had a conscience, they might question the absolute immorality of chaining ordinary families to a lifetime of overextended debt, just so Fahey and his cronies can suckle themselves fatter.

Heres a thought:

If Fahey and his mates are so sure of the truth of the advice they are dishing out, then why don't they put their money where their mouths are:

Set up a fund whereby, for a nominal fee at purchase time, people can insure themselves for say, the next 10 yrs against any negative equity situations they might find themselves in. It would only be a confidence measure of course, since the property market is about to, y'know, take off again.

DJDC

Courtesy of the pin:

Best to ignore the cheerleaders for the property sector
By Proinsias O'Mahony Saturday January 31st, 2009

HAPPY new year? Not really. The banks are at death’s door. Unemployment is rocketing. Cuts much more severe than those proposed in the recent budget are inevitable. The recession is deepening, with fears that Ireland is on the verge of a so-called ‘lost decade’ growing increasingly realistic.

We’re up the creek.

Auctioneers and developers, however, have a different vision for 2009, one where ever more affordable homes will be snapped up by a willing populace. After all, construction firms cannot cut prices further as they are “down to their bottom line” on prices, according to one builder recently. Indeed, those who are “stupidly waiting” for prices to fall further should cop themselves on and realise that prices are bottoming.

This stupidity has been disappointing developers for some time now. In August, property tycoon Derek Quinlan noted that first-time buyers must be given the confidence to buy as “negative media commentary force them to sit and wait, believing that prices have not yet bottomed out”.

Impartial ‘experts’ have been beating this drum for some time now. Tom Parlon, former minister and now Director General of the Irish Construction Industry Federation, warned last March that “there’s not much more scope for further cuts” and that “now is the time to buy, there is real value out there”. Politicians, too, are puzzled by this ignorant penny-pinching. “If I was to give advice to people, I would say, go out and buy some property now”, said Galway TD Frank Fahy last May. Frank has a pretty extensive property portfolio, as does his Fianna Fáil colleague Donie Cassidy. Donie, perhaps better known for his masterful management of Foster and Allen and other show-band giants than his political accomplishments, said last April that there was “unbelievable” value in the marketplace, something he would remind us all of in 12 or 18 months “when prices have again increased by 25% or 30%”.

That didn’t quite pan out. A mule could have told you that Donie was in la-la land but he wasn’t the only one. “The time to buy is now”, said estate agent Pearse Wyse last April, warning that the “great value” didn’t “mean people can dilly dally.”

“It makes little sense to hold off making a purchasing decision”, said another in summer 2007, when the bubble had already burst. “There is no better investment than Irish property at present”, said high-profile estate agent Ken McDonald in the same year, going on to ask why “we allow scaremongers and doomsayers with unfounded pessimism and unbridled negativity” to talk down the economy. Never mind, said Ken: “the Irish love affair with property will continue undaunted despite the knockers.”

Hmmm.

Of course, this love affair was encouraged by good old Bertie, our dearly departed Taoiseach. “The boom is getting boomier”, he said in 2006. “We should have an examination into why so many people got it so wrong”, adding that people “should have bought last year.” By April 2007, he was predicting a “soft landing”. By July, he asked why those who sit on the sidelines “cribbing and moaning” don’t “commit suicide”. Two months later, we were told that there “is no place for politically motivated attempts to talk down the economy and the achievements of our people across all sectors.”

What a crock. It’s one thing to have to listen to such garbage from those in the property sector. It’s another thing entirely when the leaders of our country were encouraging one of the greatest housing bubbles in history, a bubble whose bursting has plunged Ireland into a crisis of incalculable proportions. Ahern is famously pally with developers, whose one-dimensional thinking seems to have informed government policy.

Take Bertie’s buddy Sean Dunne, who said just last month that he was “prudent” when he splashed out almost $600 million for a 5 acre site in Ballsbridge at the height of the boom. In 2006, Dunne lashed out at the economists who had “mistakenly forecast the end of the housing and property boom in Ireland” for the last six years. This deluded bunch of “hyenas”, those “harbingers of doom and gloom”, included the Economist magazine, the IMF and the OECD. “The hyenas have stopped laughing…each and every one of them was wrong.”

They weren't wrong though – just early. David McWilliams, who had been warning for years that the housing bubble couldn’t last, likes to use the analogy of a doctor who advises a patient to change his lifestyle. Smoking 20 fags a day, the patient ups it to 40 as the years pass. After all, the doctor’s been warning him for years and nothing’s happened. By 2007, our patient is puffing on cigars aplenty and downing a daily bottle of whiskey into the bargain. Why not? Sure he’d been hearing the same old warnings for the best part of a decade…

It was obvious that a serious property bust was a question of ‘when’, not ‘if’, just as it was obvious to decent economists that a financial crisis would likely be triggered by this bust. Study after study has confirmed as much. 2007 was full of guff about a soft landing even though studies of international housing bubbles show that there has never been such a thing. Bubbles are followed by crashes just as day is followed by night.

The global financial crisis hit the headlines in 2007, creating a perfect storm for Ireland in the process. And yet, politicians and regulators appear to have been taken unawares. When UCD economist Morgan Kelly published a study showing that house prices typically fall by between 40-60 percent in a crash, he was dismissed as a scaremonger (it’s now very likely that Irish falls will be even greater). Also dismissed were his comparisons with Finland, which saw unemployment rocket from 3 to 20 percent and house prices halve in the aftermath of its housing crash in the early 1990s.

It wasn’t rocket science. Between 2000 and 2006, house prices doubled relative to income and rents. Construction accounted for nearly a fifth of our economy (the international norm is just 5 percent). First-time buyers became priced out of the market so banks invented 110 percent mortgages to be paid back over a forty-year period. The signs of an unsustainable bubble were everywhere. And yet, politicians trumpeted that the fundamentals were sound. What were they smoking?

Other countries, of course, also had their fair share of paid housing cheerleaders. Take David Lereah, former chief economist with America’s National Association of Realtors. Lereah, author of the 2005 bestseller, Why the Housing Boom Will Not Bust and How You Can Profit From It, used to routinely trot out wildly bullish forecasts that mirrored the hallucinatory abominations of his Irish counterparts.

He left his job in 2007. Was he wrong to be so bullish, he was asked recently? “I worked for an association promoting housing, and it was my job to represent their interests”, he admitted. “I put a positive spin on it. It was easy to do during boom times, harder when times weren’t good”. And now? “I’m pretty bearish and have been for the past year and a half. Home prices will continue to drop.”

Kudos for his new-found honesty, if nothing else.

There are many David Lereahs in Ireland. Developers, estate agents, dizzy television presenters with their own property agendas, economists working for the banks – the same old clowns will trot out the same old claptrap, rabbiting on about ‘value’ and the dangers of waiting too long and how a bottom is near and how it’s a great time to buy.

It’s not a great time to buy. It’s a great time to wait. Property remains over-priced by any conventional valuation yardstick, some places more than others (West Cork comes to mind). Property crashes play out over a period of many years, partly because sellers become anchored to old prices that are no longer relevant. There’s also a large element of wishful thinking involved – a recent US study found that people expected prices in their locality to fall but believed that their own house would appreciate in value or stay the same.

The facts are, however, that house prices do not rise in real terms (after inflation) in the long run. Countless international studies confirm this. A couple of booms aside, real house prices were flat or falling most of the time in the US in the 20th century. Booms occur periodically before prices revert to their historical mean. The bigger the bubble, the bigger the bust.

We’ll still have to put up with the cheerleaders, however, even as the market deflates. Morgan Kelly puts it well. “We can start looking forward to estate agents telling us that the worst is over, a necessary correction to an overheated market has taken place, there has never been a better time to buy, and so on until most of them go out of business.”

http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=1110

Look back at ZXY and Jetski's posts, they have been talking up the non existent market throughout 2008. However the game is up for the VI, with unemployment forecast to rise to 12%, properties taxes about to be levied, asset values will keep falling to long term international levels.

ZYX

smccarrick wrote: »

I should perhaps have rephrased that- the average Irish person is paid for working 37.5 hours a week. I'm not aware of anyone, without any exception, who doesn't work more than this (the civil servants you mention are obliged to be physically at their desks for 35 hours, on lunch or breaks off the clock for another 5, and anyone from EO and upwards probably works an additional 5-7 again- averaging well over 45 hours- its similar to everywhere else- but they only get paid for 35.

The calculation of average hourly earnings are from publications that Professor Dennis Cunniffe from NUIM did for the ESRI (Colm McCarthy who writes in the Indo also uses similar methodology (and is also formerly of the ESRI)).

S.

Perhaps they did, but I am quoting from the CSO. Obviously the median level is lower. The average pay includes almost everyone including hospital consultants, High Court judges etc which will skew the results, however it clearly shows that average earnings for a full time employee is over €40,000.

jetski

DJDC wrote: »

Courtesy of the pin:



Look back at ZXY and Jetski's posts, they have been talking up the non existent market throughout 2008. However the game is up for the VI, with unemployment forecast to rise to 12%, properties taxes about to be levied, asset values will keep falling to long term international levels.

I havent been talking the property market throughout 2008. in the last 2 two months ive said there is value appearing which there is.

Interest rates in freefall and no sign of stopping we could see 1% ECB yet.

House prices slashed.

Mortgage interest relief increased by 5%

There is really good value at the moment

snubbleste

jetski wrote: »

I havent been talking the property market throughout 2008. in the last 2 two months ive said there is value appearing which there is.
Interest rates in freefall and no sign of stopping we could see 1% ECB yet.
House prices slashed.
Mortgage interest relief increased by 5%
There is really good value at the moment

Thanks for the advice Mr. Parlon

spockety

jetski wrote: »

I havent been talking the property market throughout 2008. in the last 2 two months ive said there is value appearing which there is.
Interest rates in freefall and no sign of stopping we could see 1% ECB yet.
House prices slashed.
Mortgage interest relief increased by 5%
There is really good value at the moment

Just because it has become more affordable now to buy a house than it was for the last 2 or 3 years does not necessarily mean that there is really good value. Value relative to the last 3 years maybe. But jesus, what kind of relative value is that?! :eek:

But anyway, keep fighting the good fight my man.

ionapaul

There is no good value right now in the Irish property market.

The_Conductor

ionapaul wrote: »

There is no good value right now in the Irish property market.

Depends- its all subjective.
Everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it.
Someone, somewhere out there- has a need which can be satisfied within their self imposed budget. It might be a shack, or it might be a lease on a shop. Its all dependent on the person. Someone with a need may be willing to pay a far higher price for something than someone with a basic want, rather than a need........

ionapaul

I should have added: 'with respect to historical fundamentals'

I suppose 'value' is something that is very subjective alright. A thirsty man might find value in a pint of water at €100!

faceman

ionapaul wrote: »

There is no good value right now in the Irish property market.

Not true. it depends on what the purchaser is after.

Thats some disgrace what went on Galway. Anyone contact a radio station about it? Im sure Matt Cooper would have a field day with it.

On the other hand, the fact the room was filled out shows that despite demand at present, there is still a desire to be on the property ladder (or is it a snake now? )

Ive wondered that when it does bottom out, even if it takes 10 years and people start buying again, will it create another bubble? Its hard to tell and obviously other factors will also have an impact.

The_Conductor

faceman wrote: »

Ive wondered that when it does bottom out, even if it takes 10 years and people start buying again, will it create another bubble? Its hard to tell and obviously other factors will also have an impact.

Doubt it- look at all those former Eircom shareholders who would sooner have a frontal lobe lobotomy than buy more shares.......

IronMan

Frank Fahey is the most obnoxious politician in the Dáil. Which is some achievement considering it contains Beverly Cooper Flynn, Martin Cullen, and Martin Ferris. For further reading I suggest you look for the "lost at sea" programme.

The man is the very definition of a shill.