€1,000 home tax 'needed' along with PAYE hikes

Jamar

Liam Byrne wrote: »

With all due respects Jamar, you're coming across similar to a Fianna Failure TD at the moment, because what you've just posted is completely different to what you said earlier.

Just as the bare essential required to live in this country should not be taxed (the scum rolled back the "1% tax on everyone" to excluded the bare minimum wage), someone living in a basic house that meets their needs should not be taxed.

Also, bear in mind that we are ALREADY being "taxed" on our houses courtesy of the Fianna Failures and their now off-the-hook banking buddies......houses that should have been worth maybe 200K were hiked up to 300K, and we're paying interest on the 300K.

Like I said earlier, get the cash back IMMEDIATELY from those bankers and directors who rode the system, and THEN maybe we'll listen to any approach for paying THE REST.

But Mr Cowen and your bunch of scummy followers, DO NOT expect US to pay on the treble for your mistakes! :mad:

I disagree that what I said is completely different. I'm not entrenched however, so perhaps my mind can be changed. I'm not a FF TD, or any other type of TD, so it would make no real difference if I did change my mind.

I don't have much sympathy with people living in a big/expensive house if they cannot afford rates being re-introduced. Taxes are required for the upkeep of the area, and so must be raised.

In any tax system, there will be people who end up treated badly. I realise that those with big houses and low incomes would be the victims of what I argued. There is a case to be made for pensioners.

I agree that we paid some money toward houses already, hence my exemption for those who've paid SD.

As for taxing the bear essentials, that's a threshold argument really. That's why I had relief for each person. There is an argument that your first house is exempt. But then you get into 'here's my house; here's my spouse's; here's my mother's'.

I think that there are indicators that there is an intention to reintroduce rates. The tax on second homes brought in is to compile a list. The floating of the idea this week is coming from government, via a banker.

Lplated

NewDubliner wrote: »

Is this true? Did they really say that, or are you deliberately misrepresenting their position to suit your argument?

The unions have said absolutely no job cuts nor cuts in pay.

They are, apparently, willing to discuss reductions in non basic pay, for example overtime etc.. The issue of moving pensions from defined benefit to defined contribution is not on the agenda. Nor is reversing the second biggest drain on public resources, i.e. benchmarking.

I don't believe I misrepresented their position, do you?

Lplated

Lets take this bit by it.

vengeancepuppy wrote: »

The public sector gets accused of not doing their work properly, having guaranteed jobs, a guaranteed pension.

Do you think the public sector does its job properly, or at all? Do we have an efficient health service despite the increase (in billions) thrown at it over the last number of years. Is it not the case that 25% of our population cannot read nor write having left our fabulous eduction system?

The public sector aren't 'accused' (in the sense of unfairly or inaccurately) of having guaranteed jobs, they are in the main guaranteed for life, impossible to sack etc. etc.. (there are very limited exceptions, i agree).

Ditto for guaranteed pension, it is guaranteed not only in sense of it will be received, but also as to the amount it will be received at and how it is not just index linked but linked to future benefits achieved by similar grades.

vengeancepuppy wrote: »

With benchmarking swinging around so much private sector turns green with envy every time it seems like public sector workers are getting a better deal than they do in their current job.

Its not really green with envy, more with nausea at the prospect of the increased taxes that will have to paid to keep those people in the existence to which their unions deem them entitled.

vengeancepuppy wrote: »

But think about all the idiots in the private sector - bankers, who killed the world economy by giving ridiculous loans just so they can have their monthly bonus. Eircom, who continuously use scare tactics to sell their phonewatch alarms. There are loads of examples.

One significant difference as between private and public sector, which could only fail to be recognised by those cushioned from the reality of the jobs market, is that staff in the private sector do not enjoy the same perks (re security, pensions etc) as those in the public.

That the banks may have messed it up does not justify the state nor conditions in the public sector.

vengeancepuppy wrote: »

I'm specifically mentioning public sector because I know someone in this particular situation, I also knew that mentioning the public sector will inevitably bring out someone who will say, "Aw, we dont' care about them!"

From memory, you're original point involved a public servant with a large family (and this would be anyone else's problem how?), with half a million worth of a house who didn't want to pay a property tax as it would cause him or her difficulty.

I do care about public servants. I care enough to hope that roughly 25% will be let go, that the remainder will have serious wage cuts and that they all will be forced to face the pensions reality that most people have to deal with.

If there are public servants that don't like the situation, they could always leave, go find jobs elsewhere.

vengeancepuppy wrote: »

Yes, legislation will probably exclude those unable to pay the tax but there will be borderline cases where people get screwed anyway. Why why why why why do we need property tax when the government can up PAYE? Why commit political suicide on top of it all?

Legislation should exclude those unable to pay, agreed. There are always borderline cases, thats the way it works.

You want to know why we need a property tax? Simple, because we employed too many public servants and paid them too much. We grew the public service by too much assuming we would always have property related taxes and capital gains to fund them.

Now we have a 20 billion gap to fill. Part of the reason it has to be filled is because unions are unwilling to shift on the gains they secured in the good times.

Why would you increase PAYE? Have you any idea how much you would have to increase it in order to fill the 20 billion hole? Do you want to completely disincentivise people from working at all?

rugbyman

hello L Plated

Have been an almost daily reader on Boards for a year or so. Have not seen you before but have done so today on two threads. I like your style. logical , and no over the top stuff.
regards ,
Rugbyman

RobBrn

unclebill98 wrote: »

There will be marches on the Dail if this House Levy is brought in.

I hope so.

RobBrn

We are on the verge of an apartied society.

On one side
Private sector workers.

Wage freezes
Wage cuts
Job insecurity
Job loses
Pension doubts

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Absolutely no wage cuts.
No job insecurity
Absolutely no job losses
Pensions guaranteed to increase

And all homeowners will have to pay a property tax to keep the public sector workers in their sumptuous lifestyle.

Remind you of anywhere

Try South Africa some years ago.
Private sector – non-white
Public Sector - white

Mr.Micro

RobBrn wrote: »

We are on the verge of an apartied society.

On one side
Private sector workers.

Wage freezes
Wage cuts
Job insecurity
Job loses
Pension doubts

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Absolutely no wage cuts.
No job insecurity
Absolutely no job losses
Pensions guaranteed to increase

And all homeowners will have to pay a property tax to keep the public sector workers in their sumptuous lifestyle.

Remind you of anywhere

Try South Africa some years ago.
Private sector – non-white
Public Sector - white

The latter are the ones ie civil servants/politicians drawing up plans to tighten our belts when perhaps they are out of touch and immunized against the tough times.

nesf

RobBrn wrote: »

We are on the verge of an apartied society.

On one side
Private sector workers.

Wage freezes
Wage cuts
Job insecurity
Job loses
Pension doubts

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Absolutely no wage cuts.
No job insecurity
Absolutely no job losses
Pensions guaranteed to increase

And all homeowners will have to pay a property tax to keep the public sector workers in their sumptuous lifestyle.

Remind you of anywhere

Try South Africa some years ago.
Private sector – non-white
Public Sector - white

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