'IRISH PROPERTY TAX' FOR YEAR 2009. HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER FOR THAT?

JUSTaCURIOCITY

JANUARY 2009. IRISH BUDGET NEEDS TO BE FILLED UP WITH MONEY. GOVERNMENT WANTS TO MAKE OWNERS OF PROPERTY TO PAY NEW YEARLY TAX OF OWNING PROPERTY. STAMP DUTY IS ANOTHER TAX THAT ONLY IRELAND AND UK PROVIDES. HOW TO SAY NO AND STAND UP TO PROTECT PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO SURVIVE MOST DIFFICULT TIMES OF EXISTENCE IN IRELAND AT THE MOMENT?... OR IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO DEAL WITH A MASSIVE FINANCIAL HOLE OF GOVERNMENT’S POCKET '.PLEASE OPEN UP AND EXPRESS YOUR SELF. IT IS YOUR LIFE AND RIGHTS

JUSTaCURIOCITY

I WILL DEFFINETALY BE ON STREETS SHOUTING AGAINST IT

newbie2

I wouldn't be opposed to a tax on a persons 'second' or 'holiday' home. But a tax on a persons home on which they've already got a huge mortgage and paid stamp duty on sucks it to the max IMO.

turgon

Well with all that caps lock you will certainly be heard...

I would be against this tax, it would be effectively an attack on ownership of land, and you can be sure farmers and builders would someway be exempt :rolleyes:

funky.monkey

A property tax is totally unfair, as it doesn't take any account of peoples ability to pay it. You can have a unemployed family living on the same street as a two income couple, and they both pay the same property tax. how is that fair.
(I'm on 12 euros a hour so its something I'm defo worried about). Its going to force people to sell their houses in the worst possible market, to move to places where they can afford the tax.
I supported FF at the last election, but if they bring this in I will never vote for them again.

JUSTaCURIOCITY

Thanks- that was actually an original idea- To sake a Friday minds wit CAPITALS. I personally owe an apartment and an redundant the same time. I cannot image more expenses relating to property.
Happy to hear you objecting a ripping off 'political hand'
I can bet those money would go to someone's pocket again....

rkeane

JUSTaCURIOCITY wrote: »

Thanks- that was actually an original idea- To sake a Friday minds wit CAPITALS. I personally owe an apartment and an redundant the same time. I cannot image more expenses relating to property.
Happy to hear you objecting a ripping off 'political hand'
I can bet those money would go to someone's pocket again....

It is right and proper to tax a persons second property....this is an investment property and should be subject to taxation.

ManFromAtlantis

would have no problem if every house is taxed and not just those who worked hard for a second and helped pay tax for others welfare.

Dr_Teeth

They shouldn't tax property, but they shouldn't incentivise it either. I would be more in favour of ending the grants, subsidies, interest relief etc given to house buyers if they want to raise more cash and bring the housing sector down to a reasonable scale permanently.

JUSTaCURIOCITY

I do agree with a second propery to be taxed. Quite fair. But people who can not afordto keep up with morgages will end up on streets. Just a second America.

ManFromAtlantis

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

They shouldn't tax property, but they shouldn't incentivise it either. I would be more in favour of ending the grants, subsidies, interest relief etc given to house buyers if they want to raise more cash and bring the housing sector down to a reasonable scale permanently.

yeah agree. the incentives were just bad government

JUSTaCURIOCITY

turgon wrote: »

Well with all that caps lock you will certainly be heard...

I would be against this tax, it would be effectively an attack on ownership of land, and you can be sure farmers and builders would someway be exempt :rolleyes:

Yes!! Good thinking. I definitely will organise some parade against government myself.
That countary is going down with such a Legistlation and 'Democracy' to protect people and their rights to survive

nw1dqsv7amx026

Tax on holiday homes and rental properties will of course be the starting point without public outcry, then once thats established they'll phase in principle residences as well.
Don't you already pay tax on rental income?

JUSTaCURIOCITY

So what should be done relating to flaw of new taxes this year?... Like another upcoming beauty :..."water tax"

JUSTaCURIOCITY

Holden Dry Flapjack wrote: »

Tax on holiday homes and rental properties will of course be the starting point without public outcry, then once thats established they'll phase in principle residences as well.
Don't you already pay tax on rental income?

I occupy my apartment. i wouldn't afford 2-bed in Dublin. In other countries for a price of irish one-bed - you can get three-bed and rent it

The_Conductor

Providing there was a clause which recognised people's ability to pay- aka- the property tax would not make people destitute or force them to sell their primary property, their home, in order to satisfy their tax bill- I would wholeheartedly support the property tax. How about put it at EUR1000 on a person's principle primary residence, EUR2000 on an investment property or a holiday home and EUR4000 on any subsequent properties- unless the rent was capped at a predetermined sum equal to an annual maximum of 25% of the gross average industrial wage in the preceding year, in which case it would be waved.

Giving the entire public sector a 10% paycut isn't the most equitable- as just under 60% of employees in the public sector earn less than the average industrial wages (graduate recruitment salaries are set a level akin to minimum wage). Any salary cuts in the public sector have to be targeted at the better paid. This could be tempered with a an additional levy, as proposed, on public sector employees, in recognition of the defined benefit nature of their pensions (though admittedly any recruits from recent years have far less pension rights than older people).

Then comes the hard thing- its very difficult to take something away from people once you have given it to them- but cutbacks will occur...... How do we prioritise health over education or social welfare. How are people made understand that if they keep their carers allowance that the local school looses a teacher- or their local A&E doesn't open at the weekends?

The biggest problem at the moment is the pisspoor blasse attitude the government has towards the electorate. The government needs to communicate better- more frequently, and more openly with those who elected them.

S.

28064212

A property tax in itself is not a bad idea per se. It certainly would have made sense a few years ago to stabilise house prices. A property tax in the current market would be absolutely insane (and fairly par for the course for this ridiculous government). What we have at the moment is a reasonably slow decline of the economy. It's a recession, but at least it hasn't suddenly descended overnight and left the whole country absolutely penniless. A property tax will do exactly that. We already have a massive surplus of houses on the market. Why would they introduce a tax that would double that? People are already struggling with their mortgages. Add an extra tax on to that, there will be huge numbers of defaulters, leading to banks possessing hundreds and thousands of homes and not be able to do anything with them, completely decimating what little financial fluidity is out there at the moment.

A property tax is one of the single worst things possible for this government to do at this point in time. How they could even suggest this is bizarre. Sadly, it's the level of governance we can expect until the next general election.

funky.monkey

There is a way it can be beaten. Contact your Fianna Fail / Green TDs, Senators, Councillors, Tell them you will vote strategically in the elections (local / european / general) to get them out if they bring in a property tax. Make Lisbon II a referendum on a property tax. People need to be made aware of the danger it poses - esspecially to the elderly, low-income families, anyone who faces redundancy. It can be beaten.

The_Conductor

We don't have a reasonably slow decline of the economy- we have a decline that is accelerating, and is expected by the central bank to now exceed 5% this year (this is the third time they have revised their figures, increasing the speed of the decline on all occasions).

The problem that we have is that private sector debt currently stands at a level of over 170% of GDP (and rising as our GDP falls). Private people do not have the capacity, or the inclination, to borrow more money. The government has the means (while we still have our AAA credit rating, but this is under review), to borrow money.

We have to accept that further direct taxation is necessary- this could be tempered by reducing indirect taxation- which is rife in Ireland- along with severe cutbacks in public expenditure.

Providing a formula which is viewed as being equitable can be dreamt up and sold to the public- and everyone is seen as making a contribution towards the economy- there cannot be loopholes, we should go along with it and accept that it is necessary.

The_Conductor

funky.monkey wrote: »

There is a way it can be beaten. Contact your Fianna Fail / Green TDs, Senators, Councillors, Tell them you will vote strategically in the elections (local / european / general) to get them out if they bring in a property tax. Make Lisbon II a referendum on a property tax. People need to be made aware of the danger it poses - esspecially to the elderly, low-income families, anyone who faces redundancy. It can be beaten.

Fine. We need to raise taxes- whether you like it or not. How do you propose to make up the shortfall in the absence of a tax such as this?

Mr. Incognito

It won't happen. Finna Fail is in bed with the developers and just bailed them out in Anglo.
If you're going to see a property tax it'll be on proncipal private residents, not investment properties or if it is on investment properties it'll probably be given as a deduction from Case V income.

Oafley Jones

Stamp duty should have been abolished and property tax introduced years ago. It would have helped to take some of the heat out of the property bubble. As it stands today, the idea of taxing second properties is something I'd be in favour of.

themadchef

smccarrick wrote: »

. The government has the means (while we still have our AAA credit rating, but this is under review), to borrow money.

Can someone kindly explain this to me? the whole AAA thing. If we are reduced to AA does this in turn reduce our borrowing capacity?

El Stuntman

smccarrick wrote: »

Fine. We need to raise taxes- whether you like it or not. How do you propose to make up the shortfall in the absence of a tax such as this?

don't be silly, this is not a place for propounding solutions :pac:

far easier to vent and say somebody else should pay

El Stuntman

themadchef wrote: »

Can someone kindly explain this to me? the whole AAA thing. If we are reduced to AA does this in turn reduce our borrowing capacity?

it doesn't necessarily reduce our capacity to borrow but it will push up the cost of borrowing

the further down the ratings we slide, the more like a sub-prime borrower we become.

Oafley Jones

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It won't happen. Finna Fail is in bed with the developers and just bailed them out in Anglo.
If you're going to see a property tax it'll be on proncipal private residents, not investment properties or if it is on investment properties it'll probably be given as a deduction from Case V income.

FF may be the developers party, but they're not going to hit the PPR, to do so would be political suicide - not that they aren't screwed anwyay.

MoominPapa

A flat property tax would be awful but residential rates could, and should, be reintroduced and stamp duty changes to flat amounts.
You own three properties? You pay three rates.

Krustacean

I think stamp duty should be abolished and property tax introduced on all properties. However, the stamp duty paid can be used as a credit on the property taxes payable !!

I think this is a decent compromise. What do you think ?

The_Conductor

Krustacean wrote: »

I think stamp duty should be abolished and property tax introduced on all properties. However, the stamp duty paid can be used as a credit on the property taxes payable !!

I think this is a decent compromise. What do you think ?

So- in other words- make all those first time buyers who got out of paying stamp duty shoulder the can?

asdasd

We should definitely tax property. Why are all taxes in Ireland taxes on labour, or consumption, why not wealth. Tax the rich in rich housing. The top ten-twenty percent taxed at 2-5% of equity in the house.

Mr. Incognito

FF may be the developers party, but they're not going to hit the PPR, to do so would be political suicide - not that they aren't screwed anwyay.

Ah yes- but it won't be dressed like that.

It'll be dressed as a tax on ALL property, home and abroad. And then they'll allow it as a deduction against rent received in the same way mortgage interest is available as a deduction for investment properties. To the man on the street it looks equitable, but it's not.