'IRISH PROPERTY TAX' FOR YEAR 2009. HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER FOR THAT?

K-9

smccarrick wrote: »

Further regarding the size of the Irish public sector- our public sector is the average size per head of population in the EU- not the largest. Further- the civil service is less than 10% of the public sector and accounts for 6% of the public sector paybill (civil servants tend to be worse paid that employees in the quangoes, state bodies, HSE etc). The Irish civil service is the smallest per head of population in the entire OECD. Check it out- you will actually be very surprised- don't automatically run with the hysterical headlines the media like to propogate- they don't actually add up at all........

I think people just confuse the civil and public service, I don't think they mean the CS specifically when they use that term.

smccarrick wrote: »

I paid 35k in 2000- and I have to pay on average 2k in management fees every year, for the pleasure of living in a complex that looks like some of the under-developed areas of Beirut on a bad day. At the moment it also homes a Ford Transit sitting on blocks without any number plates, a burnt out Nissan Micra, a skip with rotting domestic waste, a destroyed communal garden (they went with the cheapest quote and ended up with a lunatic who thought it was fine to prune everything with a high power chainsaw), satellite dishes all over the place and 2 commercial properties in there that make security a nightmare (despite one of the two being a bank).

What we need to accept is the public finances are shot. We need to cutback on expenditure- the public sector wagebill is only one element of this- all areas are going to get chopped. We also need to broaden our tax base. If we don't bring in a property tax- we have to bring in the taxes elsewhere.

Would people rather lowering the threshold to bring more lower earners into the tax bands, increase the lower rate to 25% and the higher to 48-50%, lower the consumption based taxes such as VAT to mirror those in the UK and make it less attractive to piss off up to Newry- and accept that all the indirect taxation is a mistake and an upfront approach to what we are actually paying is in everyone's interests?

S.

I would say a mix of property, water and income taxes would be the best bet.

Raising the higher rate has to be done, but there is a limit to that. If it's 50%, along with PRSI, that makes it 56%. We are getting close to 80's levels and that didn't work. Personally, 44% + 6% PRSI. If a Govt. takes more than 50% of overtime etc. it can be a bad thing, black market etc.

The one thing that is never mentioned is PRSI.

Why should somebody on €80,000 not be paying 6% on that money?

nesf

Maybe it's just my cynicism but this smacks of your classic political trick of putting out a rumour of an extremely punitive tax in order to make a new less punitive one more palatable. I don't think FF are close to desperate enough to try and convince the public to take a grand from every pensioner in the country who has the misfortune of owning their own home.

K-9

nesf wrote: »

Maybe it's just my cynicism but this smacks of your classic political trick of putting out a rumour of an extremely punitive tax in order to make a new less punitive one more palatable. I don't think FF are close to desperate enough to try and convince the public to take a grand from every pensioner in the country who has the misfortune of owning their own home.

I'd say so, usually FF are good at that, I'll give them that much.

They did it in the last budget, re child benefit, but messed up with the Medical cards.

Lesson learnt: If you are going to means test, make it universal i.e. 3rd level fees, child benefit etc. Don't pick just on over 65's.

JUSTaCURIOCITY

Damm.. and I thought I am going survive till end of this ridiculous recession.... I will leave my home to banks to rob it - ....with half paid mortgage over years (????which for most of us wasn't "bread and butter " situation over years and years with such a market ).I will tell to Mortgage Agent to keep his change for my home. And I will rush with my sleeping bag to take best spot on street before other will show up....:))))))))))))))))))))) and here comes ... hysterical laugh

Tim Robbins

wilson01 wrote: »

Hi,
Thanks for sharing useful information.

Don't forget rental income is subject to tax.
If LandLords have to pay more tax than they get from rent, they'll just end up flogging them which means the market will be further flooded.

jimmmy

smccarrick wrote: »

Further regarding the size of the Irish public sector- our public sector is the average size per head of population in the EU- not the largest.

However many other european countries have a larger military spend / nato obligations , conscription etc and these distort the public sector figures. Nobody can deny our public service is bloated considering the size of the country, and the taxpayer gets poor value for money in terms of class sizes, health care etc. Our public service cost is the highest per capita in the EC. Our public service pay at 966 per week is the highest in the EC, as confirmed even by our own c.s.o. If less tax that was collected was squandered, out existing property taxes ( stamp duty etc ) would not need to be as high as they are.

SkepticOne

I would not be against a property tax if it was brought in as a replacement for stamp duty (which is not generating much revenue at the moment) but for the sake of fairness there would need to be credit granted to those who paid large amounts of stamp duty due to inflated prices in recent years.

Mary D

I would be so against a property tax whether it's on a residential home or a rental property. Many ordinary people have second properties (which they already paid through the nose for). I wish this government would get their act together and start taxing people who can afford it rather than keep hitting ordinary workers. It's their fault for being in bed with the builders and the bankers in the first place that we're in this mess and yet they're still keeping a protective sheet over their heads. People are loosing their homes every day and the government aren't doing a thing to help them yet their bailing out the banks, who in turn are letting the builders off with paying their debts. It really makes me angry.

solice

jimmmy wrote: »

However many other european countries have a larger military spend / nato obligations , conscription etc and these distort the public sector figures. Nobody can deny our public service is bloated considering the size of the country, and the taxpayer gets poor value for money in terms of class sizes, health care etc. Our public service cost is the highest per capita in the EC. Our public service pay at 966 per week is the highest in the EC, as confirmed even by our own c.s.o. If less tax that was collected was squandered, out existing property taxes ( stamp duty etc ) would not need to be as high as they are.

Jimmy, did anyone ever tell you that you have a one track mind. Did you even realise what this thread was about before you started brandishing your one single solitary statistics?....its about property tax!!!!

Would property tax and stamp duty not be considered "double taxation"?

How about a tax dependent on the morgtage value, add a 0.05% tax onto each morgtage payment, it would seem that one flat fee irrespective of the size of a house would seem unfair and would be more punishing for people on lower incomes who cant afford nice big houses.

Or considering that people are paying mortgage payments and taxes to the banks now, just let the govt. come to some sort of arrangement with the banks?

10000maniacs

solice wrote: »

Would property tax and stamp duty not be considered "double taxation"?

Double taxation, thats a laugh.
Its actually triple taxation.
Every penny you put into your mortgage, you have already paid 40% PAYE/PRSI on this monthly payment through your job.
It would be fairer if you only paid property tax on the percentage of the house you actually own. The banks should pay the rest as they own the rest.

Tim Robbins

Mary D wrote: »

I would be so against a property tax whether it's on a residential home or a rental property. Many ordinary people have second properties (which they already paid through the nose for). I wish this government would get their act together and start taxing people who can afford it rather than keep hitting ordinary workers. It's their fault for being in bed with the builders and the bankers in the first place that we're in this mess and yet they're still keeping a protective sheet over their heads. People are loosing their homes every day and the government aren't doing a thing to help them yet their bailing out the banks, who in turn are letting the builders off with paying their debts. It really makes me angry.

In our case before we got married:
I bought a 1 bed. My wife bought a two bed.

Because of stamp duty there's not much point selling the 1 bed and 2 bed and us getting a 3 bed. At the moment we rent the 1 bed. But we are losing money on both.

Another tax, would hammer us. I'd have no problem selling the properties to the government for the price we paid for them though :-)