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Ballsbridge tower - rejected by An Bord Pleanála

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  • 30-01-2009 12:40pm
    #1
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭


    An Bord Pleanala has rejected controversial plans by developer Sean Dunne to build a 37-storey tower in the Ballsbridge area of south Dublin.

    The tower formed part of a planned €1.5bn development at the site of the Jury's and Berkely Court hotels, which Mr Dunne bought for €379m in 2005.

    Last year, Dublin City Council approved most of the development, but refused to grant permission for the high-rise tower.

    Mr Dunne appealed this to An Bord Pleanala, but the body has today rejected the entire plan, saying it would represent a gross over-development of the site.

    The ruling also says the development would be highly obstructive and would seriously injure the amenities of the area, as well as diverting retail activity away from other designated areas.

    What does this mean for Sean Dunne? Will it finish him?

    As we're Irish, naturally we should be feeling a certain level of smugness but I feel sorry for him.


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    #2
    IronMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭IronMan


    Sleipnir wrote: »

    As we're Irish, naturally we should be feeling a certain level of smugness but I feel sorry for him.


    Why should you feel sorry for him? He bought land at a vastly inflated price during a property bubble. It didn't work out. That's life.


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    #3
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    Yeah, people get cancer and die. That's life. Doesn't mean I shouldn't feel sorry for them!

    Still, I doubt he would have actually got the money to build it now anyway.


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    #4
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,215 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    He took a massive gamble. He knew the risks. He employed people to advise him and didnt get the best advice it would appear. Tough **** really


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    #5
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    an ambitious plan, probably in the wrong place though. but the land was so expensive he really had to squeeze as much out of it as he could. bad news for him - maybe. bad news for his bank - definitely.


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    #6
    livvy
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭livvy


    I think it is unfortunate he didn't get planning - it would have created some employment in this time of recession.


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    #7
    MoominPapa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭MoominPapa


    Hopefully we'll get the same result for Dundrum2


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    #8
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Sleipnir wrote: »
    Yeah, people get cancer and die. That's life. Doesn't mean I shouldn't feel sorry for them!.

    Yeah, because the victims of cancer make a calculated decision to to get cancer and die from it..

    Do I even need to call you a retard for that post?


    I am personally glad for him. The whole property boom has left this country in major trouble.


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    #9
    cazze
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭cazze


    sean dunne the man who lost it all,
    greed is an awful thing


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    #10
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    livvy wrote: »
    I think it is unfortunate he didn't get planning - it would have created some employment in this time of recession.

    On the one hand you have a point, on the other,I doubt he would have managed to draw down his 1bn line of credit to actually complete the project(I think ANGL or UB were the bankers).
    Although he guy has a massive ego, I'd say he's in deep doodoo now and the fallout could be the start of the domino effect.
    There is a massive amount of cash buried in D4 now and its hard to see it ever reappearing.

    It wouldnt surprise me if the Doyle group are back in business in Ballsbridge in the not too distant future.


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    #11
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Theres a lot of Schadenfreude on this thread!!!


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    #12
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,650 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The council were encouraging the development, and then changed their minds. Nothing wrong with a high rise development in a central location, could have employed people for years, AND kept the stock of housing high (reducing prices). Could have been built at a far cheaper price than projected as well.

    People need to look beyond their own incandescent glee at times.


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    #13
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,274 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Heraldoffreeent wrote: »
    Theres a lot of Schadenfreude on this thread!!!


    You could phrase it that way however you have to admit that a lot of people were living in a bubble where there was no down, only up , where you were laughed at if you mentioned that the previous crash always had excess or loose credit as a cause, where savers and workers were suckers and if you werent leveraged up to the hilt then you were a wuss.
    He is just another in the series of clowns that has Donald Trump as a member

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #14
    Captain Corelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Captain Corelli


    Firstly, I am glad he didn't get planning permission. I don't think the tower would have fit amongst the low-rise area of D4.

    It might work in say redeveloping the Guinness brewery or other wide area in need of a central anchor or rejuvenation (similar to heuston south quarter or smithfield distillery).

    Regardless of An Bord Pleanala's decision; I do not thing he would have got the backing from banks to build it. Ulster Bank backed the purchase, when the other banks wouldn't. No one (bank) is flush with cash at the moment. He is already stretched having bought it; stretching himself further would not be wise when debt spreads are at a high level. Give it 2/3 years and he could try again (if he still owns it).

    To the poster who thinks he got bad advice; the advice he got would have been based on past planning decisions. This was a new movement; something unique and unusual(for D4). No one could have said with much confidence which way the planning committee could have swung.


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    #15
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Captain Corelli wrote: »
    Firstly, I am glad he didn't get planning permission. I don't think the tower would have fit amongst the low-rise area of D4.

    To be fair, nearly all of Dublin is low-rise.
    Captain Corelli wrote: »
    It might work in say redeveloping the Guinness brewery or other wide area in need of a central anchor or rejuvenation (similar to heuston south quarter or smithfield distillery).

    A fair point but it's Georgian Dublin and you'd have some fight to get development in some areas of the city where conservation is taken seriously.


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    #16
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    In some ways it is unfortunate that it failed in this way. Now Sean Dunne will be able to say that his idea was sound but it was the narrow minds of the planners that destroyed it.


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    #17
    uncanny
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭uncanny


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    In some ways it is unfortunate that it failed in this way. Now Sean Dunne will be able to say that his idea was sound but it was the narrow minds of the planners that destroyed it.

    His idea was stupid. And vain. And arrogant. And unsuitable. And commercially unviable in post property bubble Ireland.

    That's what destroyed it. If the planners hadn't said no, then the bankers would have, or the intended customers for 600 €1 million euro shoeboxes.

    This idea was a bad idea to begin with, and therefore doomed to failure from the outset. I'm disappointed it's taken this long for someone to inject some reality into Sean's bubble.


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    #18
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    uncanny wrote: »
    If the planners hadn't said no, then the bankers would have, or the intended customers for 600 €1 million euro shoeboxes.

    Agreed. I think An Bord Pleanala have done him a favour.


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    #19
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    BendiBus wrote: »
    Agreed. I think An Bord Pleanala have done him a favour.
    That was my point when I said that in some respects it was unfortunate that it fell at this stage rather than later in the marketplace. I think Sean Dunne probably knew it it was a failure commercially but now, as predicted, he is now blaming the "snobbish" objectors and planners. There seems to be a certain amount of public sympathy for this view. In his recent interview, he also talked about his solvency being debatable. I think the purpose of this is to try and link his inevitable fall with the planning process to the detriment of the latter.

    I do believe, however, that the planners were correct in rejecting this particular development.


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