Sad day for Waterford?

billy the squid

Another very detailed report
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/30/business/EU-Ireland-Waterford-Crystal.php

It is a pity that companies never learn that closing down without informing employees is always a bad move.

Sky are reporting that the workers were informed by text message of the closure, but are not saying that it was workers in the factory were the ones sending the texts and the employer had no intention of telling these people.

As for the guy that was sent through the plate glass window, will there be any charges as a result of this. The goon that did this should have been sent home until an investigation could be carried out into what happened.

Aquos76

A rally of Support taking place at 1pm in the car park at Kilbarry today. Please come along if you can and spread the work to friends and families to try and get there also.

AdMMM

I picked a good time to feck off to Killarney for a few days it seems! I shudder to think of the ramifications of the closure of the plant for Waterford especially when we consider 2008 to have been a terrible year for tourism!

mike65

billy the squid wrote: »

Sky are reporting that the workers were informed by text message of the closure, but are not saying that it was workers in the factory were the ones sending the texts and the employer had no intention of telling these people.

.

I was listening to an employee on Marian Finucannes programme on RTE radio just now, he said the txts were employees texting each other once word got out.

billy the squid

mike65 wrote: »

I was listening to an employee on Marian Finucannes programme on RTE radio just now, he said the txts were employees texting each other once word got out.

just telling what they are saying.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Waterford-Crystal-Factory-Workers-In-Sit-In-Protest-Over-Job-Losses/Article/200901415214360?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15214360_Waterford_Crystal_Factory_Workers_In_Sit-In_Protest_Over_Job_Losses

mike65

Well Sky are 'never wrong for long' as the saying goes.

solas

My bro is sitting in out there too, took redundancy just before christmas and hasn't been paid for two weeks. Can't get there for 1pm but best of luck to folk with family and friends in it, even if they only manage to save the visitor centre, I hope they stay the course.

cassette50

I thought the Visitor Centre is only being closed temporarily???

solas

cassette50 wrote: »

I thought the Visitor Centre is only being closed temporarily???

that was the idea initially, to keep the tourist centre open

Hours after the occupation began this afternoon, Deloitte receiver David Carson said in a statement that manufacturing will cease immediately with the loss of 480 of the 800 jobs.

The visitors' centre in Waterford, one of Ireland's top tourist attractions, will also close, he said.

doesnt look like its part of the plan anymore

Brian Capture

ultimately the sit-in is pointless.

From the outside it looks like a bunch of hard chaws trying to be rebellious.

The decision has been made. The way in which the message was delivered was WRONG but the sit-in will not help.

Sully

Is this the first sit in of the recession? All the other businesses, including Dell, the workers took the news without storming the building/fighting with security/refusing to leave. Instead the press and other hammered the government for their lack of care. Here, it seems workers are hammering the receiver and ignoring the fact that the government have yet to offer anything decent compared to other citys in the same problem.

The company is ****ed and has been for a very very long time. Judging by comments in the news, it seems the receiver could not afford to keep the place running despite earlier promises. I gather some people got letters and the 2nd/3rd hand news was sent by text but not by the receiver. There seems to be a lot of comments about the company notifying people by text which is not the case it would seem (judging by the news). Also I had a look at the video of your man being thrown up against the window (it also looked like one of the workers tried to block the camera man from seeing what happened) but it looked like a struggle and wasnt done on purpose despite claims? Security were paid to keep people out and the people stormed them. Anybody see first hand what happened?

Not a great way to treat the loyal workers over the years and even no proper pay off/pension. However lets not forget our government seem to be doing little about it.

mike65

Anyone stand in the carpark listening to various representatives?

Nolanger

Sully wrote: »

All the other businesses, including Dell, the workers took the news without storming the building/fighting with security/refusing to leave.

No-one thinks of Limerick when they hear the word Dell. Waterford Crystal is much more than just a factory.

Libby029

What people are forgetting I think, is that these people are fighting because if they are put out of their jobs, the pensions that they were due to get after all their years of service are gone.. and more than likely all they will get is their 2 weeks redundancy... if I had a parent or sibling who had worked there for all those years to come out with nothing.. I would be sitting in there with them. That is the problem.. irish people once upon a time would fight for their rights.. now people are so down hearted.. anyone who even tries to fight for their rights are shot down. I think they are to be commended.. it is a frightening time for all of these people and their families.. what harm is it doing to any of us.. if these people stand up to their employers.

solas

think theres a few things that come up, no one in waterford crystal was under the impression that the factory wasn't on the way down, there were a couple of hundred redundancies before christmas and most folk wanted out, with their pensions and packages they were promised however. most of these folk are receiving nothing at the moment.
Also, there were proposals under way trying preserve th place in some form or other, which might have provided some stability for the workers (current and former) in the long term, this process wasnt allowed to continue and understandably if the receiver was unable to sustain the factory until these proposals had been put forward than why shouldnt the workers have stepped in.
No doubt tho theres the other half who want the "hard chaws" to lose the fight.

Sully

Libby029 wrote: »

What people are forgetting I think, is that these people are fighting because if they are put out of their jobs, the pensions that they were due to get after all their years of service are gone.. and more than likely all they will get is their 2 weeks redundancy... if I had a parent or sibling who had worked there for all those years to come out with nothing.. I would be sitting in there with them. That is the problem.. irish people once upon a time would fight for their rights.. now people are so down hearted.. anyone who even tries to fight for their rights are shot down. I think they are to be commended.. it is a frightening time for all of these people and their families.. what harm is it doing to any of us.. if these people stand up to their employers.

There not protesting about their pensions/redundancy. They are protesting about loosing their jobs and in the way they did. At least, that's what the news is portraying. Very little about loss of pensions etc.

I think its a disgrace that these are lost but more of a shout should be given about it and the government should be stepping in and assisting properly. Not just to be seen, but to be actually active and proposing solutions in the short and long term for Waterford.

BlaasForRafa

cassette50 wrote: »

I thought the Visitor Centre is only being closed temporarily???

There would have been several Failte Ireland employees at the tourist office there put out of work as well. Also the tourist office there makes as much money as all the other tourist offices in the south east combined so it will have a huge effect on how the local Failte Ireland branch on the quay is able to market the south east in the future.

solas

Sully wrote: »

There not protesting about their pensions/redundancy. They are protesting about loosing their jobs and in the way they did. At least, that's what the news is portraying. Very little about loss of pensions etc.

I think its a disgrace that these are lost but more of a shout should be given about it and the government should be stepping in and assisting properly. Not just to be seen, but to be actually active and proposing solutions in the short and long term for Waterford.

they are protesting at the loss of pensions and redundancy packages, as part of the closure the company's current situation puts all those things on hold until further notice, up until last week most of them were hoping the situation would stabilize with a potential offer on the table. there are more people out there than are currently employed there right now, many of them people who retired or were made redundant recently.

(obviously people employed there are p!ssed off with the way it was dealt with by the reciever too because they are now in the same boat)

Raskolnikov

panda100 wrote: »

Waterford glass could be profitable and it could provide well paid jobs for the current workforce and future generations if it wasnt in the hands of CEO's who care only for their own massive profits and salarys. The twisted logic of the free market means that hundreds of skilled workers will be now forced onto the dole while a perfectly viable factory is reduced to a derilict building.

I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Waterford Crystal by itself lost €33.4 million last year. It has €500 million of debt that was sustained by O'Reilly trying to keep the company going for twenty years. The Waterford Crystal pension deficit is in the hole to over €100 million. Whoever takes over the company is going to stiff pensioners and debtors. Production will almost certainly be almost entirely moved offshore, they will want to retain the visitors centre and a small scale operation for posterity.

The people of Waterford should be grateful to Tony O'Reilly for keeping the company going as long as it has.

Raskolnikov

solas wrote: »

they are protesting at the loss of pensions and redundancy packages

Like I said, they're going to be disappointed, that is, unless the government is somehow persuaded to take over the running on the pension fund. As for redundancy, there is no way workers will get more than two weeks statutory from the government.

Sully

Still no go...

The meeting aimed at resolving the stand-off at Waterford Crystal has ended.

David Begg from ICTU said little progress had been made and the position has not changed.

He said further efforts would be made to resolve the situation over the coming days.
Advertisement

Officials from the UNITE union, which represents 90% of the workers, met with the receiver David Carson along with the Secretary of the Department of The Taoiseach, Dermot McCarthy, and Mr Beggs.

Speaking on his way into the meeting, regional organiser for UNITE Walter Cullen, said the only way the stand-off would end would be if the receiver reverses the decision to shut down manufacturing.

This morning a meeting between Mr Carson and two high-level officials from UNITE took place in an office at the Waterford Crystal site at Kilbarry.

Union officials say Mr Carson told them he would not be changing his mind in terms of yesterday's closure.

Union officals described the meeting as acrimonious.

Workers and former employees at Waterford Crystal spent the night occupying the main Visitor Centre at the company's factory at Kilbarry in Waterford.

Sleeping bags and blankets were brought in, as were food parcels, most of which were donated locally.

Those occupying say they will remain on site until such time as the receiver reverses his decision to close the plant, and at present, there are over 200 workers occupying the Waterford Crystal visitor centre on a rotational basis.

Earlier, an estimated 2,000 people attended a rally in support of the Waterford Crystal workers.

The demonstration, which was held in very bad weather conditions, heard calls from trade union officials for the Government to intervene in the dispute and allow the company to continue trading for at least a week while potential buyers are spoken with again.

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0131/wedgwood.html

Raskolnikov

It sounds like the receiver is out of money and can't afford to open the factory of pay the workers any more wages Unless there is a buyer soon, there is nothing that the workers or union can do.

Brian Capture

The receiver's well is dry. You can't take knickers off a bare arse.

solas

Raskolnikov wrote: »

It sounds like the receiver is out of money and can't afford to open the factory of pay the workers any more wages Unless there is a buyer soon, there is nothing that the workers or union can do.

I'd safely say a lot of those people would go without wages for a week or two in order to secure a buyer. There are some fellas in there keeping the furnaces going because they know once they go out its all over. ( or at least hard to get going again)

I dont know what the current situation is but an offer of 280 million was put forward by the last prospective buyers and even though thats just a drop in the pond in relation to the costs involved, if the govt has the balls to stand in and support irish industry and bail them out financially theres no reason why a similar offer couldn't go ahead. They could in part save the pension funds and allow the buyers to retain its irish base with a minimal workforce, if nothing else it could secure some jobs, save their pensions and retain tourism figures in the region.

chrism2007

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Waterford Crystal by itself lost €33.4 million last year. It has €500 million of debt that was sustained by O'Reilly trying to keep the company going for twenty years. The Waterford Crystal pension deficit is in the hole to over €100 million. Whoever takes over the company is going to stiff pensioners and debtors. Production will almost certainly be almost entirely moved offshore, they will want to retain the visitors centre and a small scale operation for posterity.

The people of Waterford should be grateful to Tony O'Reilly for keeping the company going as long as it has.

in that case, why would anyone want to buy a business that is losing so much money? its not looking hopeful for them.

rambler924

solas wrote: »

I'd safely say a lot of those people would go without wages for a week or two in order to secure a buyer. There are some fellas in there keeping the furnaces going because they know once they go out its all over. ( or at least hard to get going again)

A 4 hour shutdown is all is required to turn the furnance into a useless lump of brick and steel.

What have the workers to lose? At the Christmas break they were faceing an orderly scale down with everyone looked after and the pension safeguarded ( the carrots for the loss of large scale manufacturing in Waterford). Then to return to have it completly pulled out from under them.
It's an all or nothing situation.

solas

chrism2007 wrote: »

in that case, why would anyone want to buy a business that is losing so much money? its not looking hopeful for them.

thats a good question, if you cast your mind back to the eighties after the strike and amidst a bleak economy crystal climbed back on the ladder. There are two parts to the company, there was the 1900 workers in wedgewood in the uk and the 400 or so here. The wedgewood part of the company has made greater losses than its crystal counterpart and the current 400 or so remaining here are less of a burden in the overall holdings of the company. The nineties was a boom time for waterford crystal, along with the rise in irish economy and a strong u.s. ceo who put it on the map things were going well until the euro was introduced and weakened the strength of the dollar which made the market unstable for a produce sold mainly in the U.S.

Considering the current economic climate any business that has a weakness is going to crumble under the pressure so a strategy would have to exist to make sure the product would continue to be viable. There are a few solutions tho. Losing the wedgwood would be a good first step. Also, the majority of losses are debt acquired over the last five years or so, and retaining a small company of 400 or so is an afterthought on the scale of things.

Ri na hEireann

Was just looking at the recently published constituency profile of the county and according to the 06' census figures Waterford has 16.2% employed in manufacturing as opposed to 11.9% on average in the rest of the State.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/library/constituencies_profiles/Waterford.pdf


With alot of these manufacturing jobs being lost at the moment, particularly in Waterford, and with the job losses in the Glass has there ever been more of a need for a University than before? It's clear that the manufacturing jobs the country has become accustomed to will not be returning anytime soon.

chrism2007

waterford has always been terrible for jobs. ive lived here 6 years now and it really is the type of place where if you get a job you stay in it.

lack of jobs in waterford was here well before the recession.

most who got qualifications in college are either in dublin/cork in decent jobs, ,unemployed or working in a job that has nothing to do with there qualifications.

there really is no hope for anyone. not just Waterford Crystal ex employees

Raskolnikov

chrism2007 wrote: »

in that case, why would anyone want to buy a business that is losing so much money? its not looking hopeful for them.

The thing is, that without the baggage of the debt, the pensions/redundancy hole, high costs (average employee cost here is €60k); Waterford Crystal would be a handy little business.

Whoever takes over will outsource all manufacturing to Slovakia, but keep the visitors centre, group HQ and a small glass-blowing operation for demonstration purposes. People looking for pensions or redundancy payments will probably be stiffed.