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Karl Marx. Was he right or will he be?

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  • 31-01-2009 12:04am
    #1
    Daithi McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/21/creditcrunch-globaleconomy

    Doing a bit of light reading earlier to pass the time and while trying to figure out my needs as highlighted by User:Saibh, I went a wandering on the current economic issues.

    Are we about to see a rise in a new and better socialism? Just looking at the news I see British people looking for jobs for British people. They are probably being egged on by the BNP but is that not what will happen here?

    Is Karl Marx right in his thinking? Will we all just help a nigga out one day? Or will we just stamp over one another to make a buck?

    Comrades?

    o/
    Tagged:


«13

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    #2
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    I fookin hope so.


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    #3
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    He wasn't as funny as Harpo.


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    #4
    Daithi McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Daithi McGee


    José Alaninho wrote: »
    I fookin hope so.

    Like your sig dude! Me and my brother discussed this earlier and all we have is a .22 :(

    Will it get that bad? I dunno but it will beat shooting oranges at 200 meters.


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    #5
    phenomenon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 446 ✭✭phenomenon


    Surely the BNP's far-right political ideology is antagonistic to socialism?


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    #6
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    The foreman's job is mine at last,
    you can shove the Red Flag up your arse    .

    Communisim is Capatalism for the few.;)


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    #7
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    Well considering my M16 is an airsoft I'd say you have the advantage over me comrade :P


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    #8
    tony1kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    Daithi McGee wrote: »
    Is Karl Marx right in his thinking? Will we all just help a nigga out one day? Or will we just stamp over one another to make a buck?

    Comrades?

    o/

    No.....he is dead.


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    #9
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    tony1kenobi wrote: »
    No.....he is dead.

    along with millions of others as a result of some people taking a liking to Das Kapital.


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    #10
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    I dont think we'll see the extremes of Marxism again, much Like I doubt we'll see the extremes of National Socialism again either.

    but the latter is more likely to make a comeback than Marxixm


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    #11
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Communism has never been put into practice, not in the former USSR anyway. Agree on the national socialism point, there is a certain subsection of people who will gravitate to tribalist solutions and the persecution of non nationals. It's pretty stupid but thats the way it can go.


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    #12
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    It was never a question or right or wrong

    'we show them how, not why'.... Grundrisse....


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    #13
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Like all good ideas, it's ruined by human nature, always will be.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #14
    Red Hand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    K-9 wrote: »
    Like all good ideas, it's ruined by human nature, always will be.

    Nail on the head.

    If we were ever to see any of his ideas, then humanity would have to be greatly altered to achieve equality.

    Doesn't matter anyway, mankind will have commited hari-kari well before then.


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    #15
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    He won't let be right - to be honest.
    Others in power will see to that!


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    #16
    SoWatchaWant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭SoWatchaWant


    "How capitalism will destroy itself."

    I thought Communism had more of an end than capitalism ever did.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr Marx.


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    #17
    Spore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Spore


    The kind of Post Indusrialist society we're living in now is so far removed from where Marx came from as to be ridiculous to compare, his theories were incredibly insightful back then but the failure of the Frankfurt School and all the modern Cultural Theorists since, proves that Capitalism is far too complex and shape shifting to nail down and simply throw out with the bathwater.

    Having known so many people who lived through the horrors of communism I can safely say that our current impasse is nothing compared to the sustained moronism of communism.


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    #18
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Spore wrote: »
    The kind of Post Indusrialist society we're living in now is so far removed from where Marx came from as to be ridiculous to compare, his theories were incredibly insightful back then but the failure of the Frankfurt School and all the modern Cultural Theorists since, proves that Capitalism is far too complex and shape shifting to nail down and simply throw out with the bathwater.

    Having known so many people who lived through the horrors of communism I can safely say that our current impasse is nothing compared to the sustained moronism of communism.

    The form of communism you're referring to had nothing to do with Marx's writings. He never wrote about what a communist or socialist state would looks like.


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    #19
    Spore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Spore


    efla wrote: »
    The form of communism you're referring to had nothing to do with Marx's writings. He never wrote about what a communist or socialist state would looks like.

    Yeah that's why I lead with this: "The kind of Post Indusrialist society we're living in now is so far removed from where Marx came from as to be ridiculous to compare"

    Jeez!


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    #20
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    More likely that there would be some sort of rise in fascism or another far-right movement. Already evidenced by those BNP muppets getting increased support.

    After all, people love to point fingers at scapegoats and huddle together like sheep in difficult times.


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    #21
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Acacia wrote: »
    More likely that there would be some sort of rise in fascism or another far-right movement. Already evidenced by those BNP muppets getting increased support.

    After all, people love to point fingers at scapegoats and huddle together like sheep in difficult times.

    And often the most vulnerable get scapegoated.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #22
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    K-9 wrote: »
    And often the most vulnerable get scapegoated.

    Unfortunately very true. Usually the immigints...even when it was the bears, I knew it was the immigints!:pac:

    But really, I foresee parties like the BNP getting more popular and it's quite worrying. The last thing we need is racist skinhead thugs throwing their weight around, tbh.


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    #23
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Spore wrote: »
    Yeah that's why I lead with this: "The kind of Post Indusrialist society we're living in now is so far removed from where Marx came from as to be ridiculous to compare"

    Jeez!

    Sorry, quoted the wrong post!


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    #24
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Acacia wrote: »
    Unfortunately very true. Usually the immigints...even when it was the bears, I knew it was the immigints!:pac:

    But really, I foresee parties like the BNP getting more popular and it's quite worrying. The last thing we need is racist skinhead thugs throwing their weight around, tbh.

    It's funny there is no INP here, who caters for that element of society?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #25
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    K-9 wrote: »
    It's funny there is no INP here, who caters for that element of society?

    There is the ICP (the Immigration Control Platform). Though I don't think they're quite on the same level as the BNP.


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    #26
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Acacia wrote: »
    There is the ICP (the Immigration Control Platform). Though I don't think they're quite on the same level as the BNP.

    Maybe certain parties cater for that? Apologies for a leading question! ;)

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #27
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    K-9 wrote: »
    Maybe certain parties cater for that? Apologies for a leading question! ;)

    I've been duped! ;) :pac:

    Really, I guess some people will always be strongly anti-immigration. It just seems like scape-goating to me, especially in economic times like these.


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    #28
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Acacia wrote: »
    I've been duped! ;) :pac:

    Really, I guess some people will always be strongly anti-immigration. It just seems like scape-goating to me, especially in economic times like these.

    All part of false consciousness :rolleyes:


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    #29
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    efla wrote: »
    All part of false consciousness :rolleyes:

    Exactly!

    I had to look this up :o

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness

    That's pretty much what I've thought myself, though. Parties like the BNP thrive because the workers don't realize it's the employers screwing them over, not immigrants...that's what you mean, right? :)


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    #30
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Communism only ever really worked in small monasteries in the medieval era.

    Increased socialism is a distinct possibilty in the current climate, but in the long term, applied communism ends up diminishining the rewards available to people in life, in essence eradicating a meritocracy. Things begin to stagnate.


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    #31
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Acacia wrote: »
    Exactly!

    I had to look this up :o

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness

    That's pretty much what I've thought myself, though. Parties like the BNP thrive because the workers don't realize it's the employers screwing them over, not immigrants...that's what you mean, right? :)

    Exactly - similar in concept to commodity fetishism - the form of the object betraying the labour process producing it


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