Are women attracted to badboys at an unconscience level

K-9

shellyboo wrote: »

Ooh, yes please

LOL, no harm in that now and again. A Bad guy will take that to the extreme though and not care of the consequences as long as he gets what he wants, morals often not applying.

Good post Thaed, in a way nice guys are the same as bad boys, just sneakier.

Nevyn

As for what are seen as 'bad boys' or 'bitches' they tend to be people who are assertive
don't put up with other people's bull**** and go after what they want.

There are also 'Nice Girls' as well who are in fact backstabbing, self centered, malicious, manipulate, who are hanging around waiting for their prince to come and when he doesn't arrive on their schedule start to be come bitter for where is their man who is meant to provide for them and handle the bills and make the decisions so that they have the life style they aspire to.

Far to many people are not looking for a partner but a person to abdicate responsibility
to and then will not understand why the other person starts to resent them.
Even more so if that person goes above and beyond to help sort them out with thier issues
and the 'nice person' will use them and the relationship up and when finally the other person
can't take it any more they break up with them and are cast as the 'bad person'.
Then '"Nice Guy/Girl" will move on to someone else having improved themselves some what
or having learned to hide their nature better.

shellyboo

K-9 wrote: »

LOL, no harm in that now and again. A Bad guy will take that to the extreme though and not care of the consequences as long as he gets what he wants, morals often not applying.

Oh exactly. I was more referring to a guy who takes what he wants in the right situation... but that's a whole other thread, really!

Malari

I'm thoroughly confused by Thaed's post. So basically Nice Guys are the ones that were formerly known as self-serving a$$holes? Who the hell re-labeled them?!

Nevyn

Malari wrote: »

I'm thoroughly confused by Thaed's post. So basically Nice Guys are the ones that were formerly known as self-serving a$$holes? Who the hell re-labeled them?!

They did.
They say that they are 'Nice Guys' and use that to not look at themselves or their behaviour they affirm this as much as they can and will tell people that they are 'Nice Guys' so that when stuff happens it's never their fault.

A Primal Nut

You have to learn to replicate the bad boy behaviour, without actually being bad. Be a challenge, talk about other girls, ex-girlfriends (they'll always ask you about them anyway), even suggest your thinking of getting back with an ex - they love a bit of competition, don't always be the first to text/ring, be persistent when you get them home and they say "I can't do this" (they always say that the first time coz they are scared you might think they are a slut) (within reason though, no means no!) don't be desperate always agreeing to meet up when she suggests ("sorry I can't arranged to meet friends") and if she turns down a request for company, make sure you inform her of the great night you had without her (without being obvious about it, wait till she asks). *

Basic behaviour, the same way you would treat your male friends, but its amazing how many guys turn into little pussies when they get the smell of one. Behave like above and it will feel natural after a while and girls will love you for it.

PUA for the win!!

By the way, its not just confidence and wanting a challenge that girls like though. I know lots of nice guys who are great with the women but many of the very hottest girls I know have or are with guys with lengthy criminal records, and vice versa. In fairness, some of them admit to liking bad boys. I have no problem with women liking the bad boys but they shouldn't then complain when the guy cheats on them/hits them and say "All men are assholes! Why can't I meet a nice guy bull****." What do you expect from a criminal with a reputation for violence toward women?

As Jude Law (I think) said, "You are more likely to get confidence and leadership from a guy who likes sleeping with lots of women." To be fair that could probably be changed to "All men like to sleep with lots of women but only the confident ones are able to." Whichever definition, the point is similiar.

By the way, I do agree with Thaeydal for the most part, doubt she agrees with me though.

*Won't work on every girl

deathstarkiller

Oh crap, I thought I was a 'nice guy' cause it meant a nice guy as in a nice person but after reading what that is actually supposed to mean these days I'm never applying 'nice guy' to me again. I'm just me, right! Confident sometimes, scared to death sometimes, I have friends, ok I have no girlfriend but I'm working on it. I do like myself though and I'm not looking for someone to 'fix' my life just make it better and hopefully I can make theirs better. Sheesh, who changed the definition of 'Nice guy' without telling me?
This thread scares me cause I can see at one stage in my life I really was one of those but it also could be the kick in the arse I need to start showing my interest in women more and less of my usual 'just be friendly and hope for the best' ploy that really doesn't work.
Feckin Hollywood with your movies where the guy who ends up getting the girl is a total loser with women but somehow the girl somehow just notices that he really is the 'nice guy' to go for. That doesn't happen. Damn you Hollywooooooodd!!!

RKDus

Wibbs pretty much hit the nail on the head with his first post, but to simplify it even more than that - women like men who are strong mentally. Obviously there are other factors but that is by far the most important thing. You can't give yourself up too easy, you have to let her "win you over". You don't have to be a "bad boy", you just can't be a pussy!

Dragan

A Primal Nut wrote: »

You have to learn to replicate the bad boy behaviour, without actually being bad. Be a challenge, talk about other girls, ex-girlfriends (they'll always ask you about them anyway), even suggest your thinking of getting back with an ex - they love a bit of competition, don't always be the first to text/ring, be persistent when you get them home and they say "I can't do this" (they always say that the first time coz they are scared you might think they are a slut) (within reason though, no means no!) don't be desperate always agreeing to meet up when she suggests ("sorry I can't arranged to meet friends") and if she turns down a request for company, make sure you inform her of the great night you had without her (without being obvious about it, wait till she asks). *

*grins* Rules. I love rules. They are ****ing hilarious. Especially ones like this which are largely based in lies and acting like a dick.

Here is one for ya, PUA's are basically bad marketers, taking a **** product and temporarily giving it a good image.

If you would like to have women interested in you, then try just offering a good product.

paperclip2

Dragan wrote: »

*.

If you would like to have women interested in you, then try just offering a good product.

ROFL!! :D

You could set up a line of t-shirts on this theme.

A Primal Nut

Wibbs wrote: »

The robbing bastids!!!! I'm gonna look for compensation.:D Ah well then, great minds think alike(do not mention fools seldom....). They probably got a grant for that. I came up with that over a pint.

I'd say ya did allright:D

You've a lot of interesting theories but they are hardly new or unique...I'm sure its a combination of lots of stuff that you've studied over the years as you clearly have an in-depth theoretical knowledge of social relationships (which isn't to say I agree with it). While you may have written all that off the cuff, its clearly inspired by stuff you've read in the past. Its based on stuff I've read millions of times....especially similiar to what the PUA industry might think. I've know problem you writing what you did but stop pretending its a new line of thinking or that thousands of people haven't thought in a similiar manner in the past.

And why is a man moderating The Ladies Lounge anyway...seems kinda gay...:p just messing with ya man.

The Corinthian

Dragan wrote: »

If you would like to have women interested in you, then try just offering a good product.

Or packaging. Or maybe just a good packet.

Dragan

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I'd say ya did allright:D

You've a lot of interesting theories but they are hardly new or unique...I'm sure its a combination of lots of stuff that you've studied over the years as you clearly have an in-depth theoretical knowledge of social relationships (which isn't to say I agree with it). While you may have written all that off the cuff, its clearly inspired by stuff you've read in the past. Its based on stuff I've read millions of times....especially similiar to what the PUA industry might think. I've know problem you writing what you did but stop pretending its a new line of thinking or that thousands of people haven't thought in a similiar manner in the past.

What is the PUA industry? I think for girls they are called "self help books"?

K-9

Dragan wrote: »

What is the PUA industry? I think for girls they are called "self help books"?

Like all self help books there is SOME truth in them and a lot of crap.

A Primal Nut

johnathan woss wrote: »

What is happening to the human gene pool due to modern civilization, the welfare state, the use of seemingly abundant energy and importantly for this thread the poor choices of empowered women has NOTHING to do with Darwin.

It has everything to do with Darwin....we were part of nature like everything else. The welfare state, modern civilization...at some level they are a phenotypic expression of our genes. Remember, the vast majority of mutations and short-term evolution are bad for the individual's gene.

CeilingCat

Dragan wrote: »

What is the PUA industry? I think for girls they are called "self help books"?

PUA = Pick Up Artist... it's kinda funny really.

Men who need a whole set of rules to tell them how to operate aren't pussies, obviously :rolleyes:
The quickest way to nip that in the bud is to use their own rules right back at them I guess.... if you can be arsed.

Dragan

A Primal Nut wrote: »

It has everything to do with Darwin....we were part of nature like everything else. The welfare state, modern civilization...at some level they are a phenotypic expression of our genes. Remember, the vast majority of mutations and short-term evolution are bad for the individual's gene.

Darwin was just a person, though you might be able to tie in survival of the fittest into the above, but the simple fact is that societal changes occur way too quickly to get a decent gene response going in humans.

I also don't hold that they are exactly expressions of our genes, once again simply because societal and cultural changes take place far quicker than those at a genetic level.

A Primal Nut

Dragan wrote: »

*grins* Rules. I love rules. They are ****ing hilarious. Especially ones like this which are largely based in lies and acting like a dick.

Here is one for ya, PUA's are basically bad marketers, taking a **** product and temporarily giving it a good image.

If you would like to have women interested in you, then try just offering a good product.

No i know, but I don't mean them as rules so much as examples of things so-called nice guys stop doing when they meet a girl they like; suddenly they're available 24/7, there life revolves around her, shes put on a pedestal.

The list of things I mentioned are examples of things that bad boys do which girls like (answering the OP's question). Lots of hot girls I know say they want a challenge, and these are examples of the things bad boys do to provide that challenge. I know girls who are with bad boys and they are non-stop wondering "why hasn't he called," "he's always talking to other women," etc. but they are actually attracted to them for this very reason, as many women have stated in this thread.I'm not giving advice really, just trying to answer the OP's question.

Nevyn

Being put on a pedestal is a pain in the arse.

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

Being put on a pedestal is a pain in the arse.

No cushion?

Wibbs

Malari wrote: »

I have to disagree with the way the consensus is going here. I've known plenty of "nice guys" who I'm not attracted to but who actually are very charismatic people - fun to be with, really make you laugh, lots of common interests...but not attractive for some reason, despite looks.

I actually can't pinpoint what it is, but I don't think you can dismiss it with the boring nice guy idea. Especially since that theme seems to be coming predominantly from guys.

I think I know the type of guy you speak of. I can think of a few off the top of my head. Now this is only my humble, but the ones I can think of the most obvious thing about them is they're somewhat gender neutral in a way. They're not overtly sexual. I don't mean they're grabbing their crotch in the street or anything but they're more cosy (for want of a better word) than anything. There's no danger to them.

The other type is the comedian. Women will want a guy with a sense of humour, yes, but some men take that to mean they want a comedian and act accordingly. Like when they hear women saying they want a nice guy and take it up wrong. Comedians may get the laughs but they don't get the women nearly as much as they think IME. Unless it ups their image in the group.

Dragan wrote:

Here is one for ya, PUA's are basically bad marketers, taking a **** product and temporarily giving it a good image.

Kudos sir. :D:pac:

A Primal Nut wrote:

I'd say ya did allright

Actually it was several pints. With a few chasers and a minger of a hangover.

You've a lot of interesting theories but they are hardly new or unique...I'm sure its a combination of lots of stuff that you've studied over the years as you clearly have an in-depth theoretical knowledge of social relationships (which isn't to say I agree with it). While you may have written all that off the cuff, its clearly inspired by stuff you've read in the past. Its based on stuff I've read millions of times....especially similiar to what the PUA industry might think. I've know problem you writing what you did but stop pretending its a new line of thinking or that thousands of people haven't thought in a similar manner in the past.

Hey there's nothing new under the sun, especially in the area of men and women. I'm quite sure this stuff has been commented on thousands of times in many cultures, by many men and women over many centuries.

Men want women and women want men. The loose facade of what may be attractive varies over time, but the core remains pretty stable. I would be fairly sure that the sex symbol and attractive man of a cro magnon tribe would find an appeal with many women today.

As for my "research", it's pretty much down to observation. I've always observed people. It's a subject that has intrigued me since I was a kid. I like seeing how a set of circumstances will influence a person one way or the other and the sometimes really obvious patterns behind it, even though, for the most part people reckon they're freewheeling(inc myself). Over time one becomes pretty good at it. It's never foolproof though. It's way too complex a subject.

Every generation thinks it has invented the patently obvious, or seeks to reinvent the past and dress it up in new clothes to claim it for themselves. The same goes for most peoples opinions. Doesn't make it any less fun to try, though to suggest novelty in ones angle on any of this would be the height of hubris and naivety.

And why is a man moderating The Ladies Lounge anyway...seems kinda gay... just messing with ya man.

Oooooh I'm defo in here folks. Watch this space.:D

It has everything to do with Darwin....we were part of nature like everything else. The welfare state, modern civilization...at some level they are a phenotypic expression of our genes. Remember, the vast majority of mutations and short-term evolution are bad for the individual's gene.

Darwin gets the rap for a helluva lot of stuff these days. It filters through all sorts of guff out there. It's very useful, compared to many theories and it is loosely applicable to so much, but it's just another a layer of abstraction that seeks to explain complex systems. I do agree with you although in a more general sense. One could apply darwinian principles to virus like memes that ebb and flow on the back of and supported by our genetic legacy. It can be so far removed to be useless, though describable in such a context.

K-9 wrote:

Like all self help books there is SOME truth in them and a lot of crap.

+1. Though I don't dismiss the genre of self help in of itself. Most of the great thinkers in history wrote what could be described as "self help" books, or moreso books that sought to elevate society and the individual as high as they could go. I just think now it's more populated by charlatans than thinkers, that state the bloody obvious and dress it up in BS, or just lie.

MJOR

I think the bad boys are good when you need a distraction as opposed to a relationship.
Some fellas think they are bad boys but really they are just dopes.You can apply the same principles to bad girls.

They are not good for anyone but maybe they are bad til they find "the one".


My mother always said "Don't marry the man you love marry the man that loves you".... (think that was like the saying yonks ago) My parents were v happy and had a balanced relationship. My mom died when i was 21 so i never really got her to explain it.(as at a nubile 21 yr old marriage seemed like decades away)


Thankfully I love my OH and he loves me too!!

I dated every a$$hole in Cork but never fell for them really. I fell for a nice guy!

johnathan woss

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathan woss
What is happening to the human gene pool due to modern civilization, the welfare state, the use of seemingly abundant energy and importantly for this thread the poor choices of empowered women has NOTHING to do with Darwin.
..................................................................................................

It has everything to do with Darwin....we were part of nature like everything else. The welfare state, modern civilization...at some level they are a phenotypic expression of our genes. Remember, the vast majority of mutations and short-term evolution are bad for the individual's gene.

I think you misunderstood me .... by basic point in the context of this thread was that in Darwin's world a sl@g that had seven kids by seven different bad boys in teh majority of cases wouldn't have been passing any genes on because the kids wouldn't have survived.

Nevyn

K-9 wrote: »

No cushion?

:P

My rear end is not as well upholstered as it used to be.

KateF

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Obviously it will be very hard to get an answer to this because at a conscience level most girls here will probably say no not at all but I see it all the time most girls just stay with cocky confident assholes who treat them with no respect whiles guys that are too nice get no where?

Yes I am. At a conscience level. 2 out of 4 boyfriends have been. One 'good' guy just wasn't right, good guy, just not suited to each other. Other good guy...I treated him like crap (subconsciously) until eventually screwed him over so much that he did it back to me, so that came back to bite me in the ass. Other 2 ('bad guys' ...i.e. assholes) f***ed me over to much that I now repeatedly go for that kind and I have no idea why!! I think I maybe want to 'fix' it. Never works

K-9

KateF wrote: »

Other good guy...I treated him like crap (subconsciously) until eventually screwed him over so much that he did it back to me,

Exactly, give an inch, take a mile.

St Bill

johnathan woss wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me .... by basic point in the context of this thread was that in Darwin's world a sl@g that had seven kids by seven different bad boys in teh majority of cases wouldn't have been passing any genes on because the kids wouldn't have survived.

If you're going to dazzle us with your knowledge of evolution, try and use the proper terms.....I hardly think Darwin would have referred to women as 'slags'

Loomis

Thaedydal wrote: »

Being put on a pedestal is a pain in the arse.

You sure it's a pedestal you're balanced on?

St Bill

I don't think playing the 'bad boy' is going to work around here

Dragan

johnathan woss wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me .... by basic point in the context of this thread was that in Darwin's world a sl@g that had seven kids by seven different bad boys in teh majority of cases wouldn't have been passing any genes on because the kids wouldn't have survived.

Sure, that makes perfect sense. Never mind the plagues, wars and famines which have, during the course of our history, wiped out enormous populations of history.

The mistake you are making is the assumption that any genetic aboration that is passed on needs to survive. The greater likelihood is that it won't.