There Is No Sepultura without Igor Cavalera?

Motley Crue

I listened to the "bands" new album last week and although I like it, because its one of the better ones they have done post Max, I have to question the logic behind them continuing without a Cavalera brother.

Granted Paulo is there, and has been, since the start and Andreas has been there for most of the time but surely without Igor, arguably one of the greatest metal drummers of modern age, there is no future for the name and the act that currently is "Sepultura"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPPaKNoniBA

Frank Bullitt

I disagree, it was Igor's decision to leave Sepultura,if he was kicked out then fair enough,but Andreas is as much Sepultura than either of the Cavaleras, I don't think its a coincidence that most of the post Max/Igor stuff is head and shoulders above Soulfly's stuff.

If Andreas goes then its not Sepultura!

Otis Driftwood

I know some people on here will disagree but for me the Sepultura that I loved ended when Max left.

ShawnRaven

nedtheshed wrote: »

I know some people on here will disagree but for me the Sepultura that I loved ended when Max left.

I won't disagree there. It was never really the same for me either.

Chaosangel

I agree with what was said above,Andreas is as much Sepultura as the Cavalera's,Igor's very good but he was just part of Sepultura

Necronomicon

I don't think I can even express in words how much I disagree with the sentiment of this thread.

Max Cavalera was not Sepultura. Igor Cavalera was not Sepultura. No individual member is greater than the sum of the parts. When Max left he went completely downhill - nothing he did with Soulfly ever came close to touching the stuff he did with Sepultura. Even when Igor joined him, their first album back together was a crock of shìte. Just rehashed crap that could've easily passed as Soulfly.

I think the problem with people's acceptance of Derrick is the fairly poor acclaim given to 'Against' when it came out - people just didn't give him a chance after it. They have gone from strength to strength with each new album. They've also shown a real evolution in terms of experimenting - writing a concept album, bringing interesting instruments into occasional songs (a cello and a french horn in Dante XXI, an unbelievable cover of Ludwig Van in A-lex) while each passing Soulfly album sounded more and more like the last.

I challenge anybody to listen to A-lex and Dante XXI and not think they're better than anything released by a Cavalera in the last decade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GhOq4nB7d0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7py29wBd8I

Chaosangel

I do agree there alright,people just dont wanna change opinion on Derrick after Against,tbh I dont like that album but I have to say Nation,and Roorback especially surpass anything Soulfly have done

buck65

I thought Against was a good record!

Doctor J

I think Necronomicon has it nailed. This is such a stupid topic, it's the music that matters, not the personalities behind it. If that's really so, then Iron Maiden isn't Iron Maiden and Megadeth isn't Megadeth as they've only got one original member, Judas Priest stopped being Judas Priest when Les Binks left, Testament aren't Testament either. All you Dream Theater fans think again cos they stopped being Dream Theater when Dominici split. Faith No More's increase in popularity came when they became a tribute band cos there's no Faith No More without Chuck Mosely. No Metallica, no Anthrax, no Exodus, none of your favourite bands, just some non-realitisic nonsense about what makes up a brand name. It dismays me to read this kind of ****e that's more suited to Smash Hits readers bitching about their favourite boy band than a Metal forum. Listen to Metal. Listen to it. If it's good, then it doesn't matter who plays it. Good is good, that's all there is to it. I'd bet any of you, if you went through your CD collections, would struggle to find any band with all original members throughout.

It really depresses me on the state of modern Metal when this kind of crap is discussed rather than the new album. Do people actually listen to the music or just repeat everything the lazy bastards in Kerrang and Metal Hammer write? If the music is good then who gives a **** who plays it?

That sad truth behind it all is that Sepultura have put out three of the highest quality no-bull**** Metal albums of this century (Roorback, Dante XXI & A-Lex) and more people are concerned about some dude who left 12 years and 5 albums ago. Granted, the first couple of Greene era albums were seriously patchy, but then again Roots was a pile of ****e too and I don't think anybody is under any illusions about the quality of Soulfly. Instead, there are great albums with people purposely trying not to like it because it's easier to say "It's not the same". Of course it's not the same. When they chose no to have a rhythm guitarist and got Greene in instead it signalled their intentions to change, to not repeat themselves and not be a tribute act to what they once were. Name one band who sound the same as they did 20 years ago and I'll tell you the name of a band in a rut.

If you want a band to sound the same over 20+ years then you're going to be disappointed. Great bands evolve and change, **** bands stay the same and disappear. If you want to hear Beneath The Remains or Arise era Sepultura then you're not going to get it on a modern Sepultura album. The funny thing is you're definitely not going to hear it on anything Max Cavalera has his name on. Iggor wants to be a DJ, so really is it such a bad thing he's persuing his passion rather than playing drums in a Metal band for the sake of it? Yet here we are going through this same tired old nonsense again when, instead, we could be discussing a band who continue to deliver the goods, who change with each release but continue to pull Metal forwards in the face of stupendous pettiness and childish bickering. In an era where big name bands from two decades ago put out absolute ****e and get lauded for it, a band put out an album of genuine quality and here we are talking about who's not on it. Maybe it's as good as it is because of their absense, did you ever consider that? In 2008 Sepultura are alive and well, make no mistake.

Enough of this ****, back to the MUSIC!

buck65

Stop beating around the bush Doctor J what do you really think?

Doctor J

Let's just say I've had enough of the nonsense :pac:

If you actually like listening to quality Metal music, then A-Lex, regardless of the name on the sleeve, is well worth picking up

If not, well I'm sure Kerrang has some gob****e in makeup yiz can foam over for this month

Motley Crue

Doctor J wrote: »

Listen to Metal. Listen to it. If it's good, then it doesn't matter who plays it. Good is good, that's all there is to it.

Absolutely and I agree with you, but I started this thread because I saw Igor live, and I think the guy is amazing and to be honest I think that live he drives a lot of their performance...and he does amazing things...and I think that while it doesnt matter what band looses a member here and there it does matter if the member they loose was a founding member, played an extremely important role and was with the band for 25 years

Doctor J wrote: »

I'd bet any of you, if you went through your CD collections, would struggle to find any band with all original members throughout.

Queen

Doctor J wrote: »

It really depresses me on the state of modern Metal when this kind of crap is discussed rather than the new album.

Yes, as it does me, generally

Doctor J wrote: »

Do people actually listen to the music or just repeat everything the lazy bastards in Kerrang and Metal Hammer write? If the music is good then who gives a **** who plays it?

Theyre just lazy, especially in the mainstream media, when it comes to metal

Doctor J

So you've gone through your collection and found one band? That kinda proves my point

A band name is a brand name, what matters is the music. yes, the dynamic of the band changed with Igor's departure, but not for the worse. The new album is superb, regardless of who plays on it and that's what matters