preferential treatment to others with mod status

Gandalf23

muffler wrote: »

No you're not. We had davey180

Muffler!!! Now I remember you! I'd forgotten we had "history". I miss those days and you telling me to "fcuk off" on thread. Ah, the good old days ...

Its all clear now. I understand why you are going against me in this thread. Its clear that you support personal abuse. I feel so stupid that I forgot!!!

I forgive you, because I understand now. You like personal abuse, and your not afraid to use it.

Good old muffly :D Please never ever change!

The Recliner

Gandalf23 wrote: »

What if I said to you that "I think you have your head so far up your own arse that you cant see the light of day". Or "I think you are such a smarmy little brown nosing lick arse cnnt to the BGRH mods that you would be willing to back them under all circumstances".

I would say that it is a slight overreaction to someone disagreeing with you in feedback

Do you think that personal abuse is warranted? Do you think that makes the site a better place or just brings the place into the mire?

I said personal abuse is warranted in certain circumstances, in the instance described above I would say that whilst you are entitled to your opinion but I would ahve to disagree with your opinion but that you have every right to express it

As someone who supports the use of personal abuse on this site, please tell me how the community benefits from anything like that?

As I said I think it is warranted in certain circumstances, if it was allowed all over the shop then it is of no benefit but sometimes it is the only language which some people understand and it is the mods job to decide where and when people should be punished for abuse

as to what you have "hypothetically" said about me above, I take issue with your opinion but how you expressed it doesn't bother me

GuanYin

A quick search found me 12 possible other cases predating the one you're referring in that cat alone where someone was abusive and there is no evidence of action being taken.

That doesn't mean action wasn't taken nor does it indicate the level of action.

In any case, and I'm being honest here, I've said this many times before. It is absolutely no business of yours what sanction a mod took against someone. It is between the mod and the person and if the person wishes to make that public, they can.

We should all really just worry about our own behavior to be honest. But really, if you want to start this crusade, you should, for the sake of fairness, start at the first instance and work your way forward checking each case for appropriate action. Then we should do so for every single forum.

Starting on that one makes it look like you have some specific axe to grind, which doesn't fall into the remit of feedback and hence doesn't require any response.

When you're going through those early ones, I'll be sure to address any of mine. Although I'd appreciate if you got them all in one thread in one go.

Thanks.

Gandalf23

trout wrote: »

The action taken at the time was to let the post stand.
You have been advised of this action, and you have commented on this action.

Again - genuine question - How can this be specific issue of DeVore's post of 11 months ago, be resolved to your satisfaction ?

Thanks for the reply. Please forgive my confusion.

I'm happy. All I wanted was to question this and get a straight answer. Its a pity robbo will not explain his actions further.

Thanks for the straight and honest replies.

Nevyn

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Eh, no. I'm very happy in general ... and I'll be staying here and making feedback when I see fit. You see, unlike you I know this site is not perfect (yet!) and I'll be doing my part to make it better.

That is, if thats ok with you of course

I don't think you will see it become what you want, it's not yours.
IF you want a place to be prefect then I suggest you build your own.

Gandalf23

The Recliner wrote: »

As I said I think personal abuse is warranted in certain circumstances, if it was allowed all over the shop then it is of no benefit but sometimes it is the only language which some people understand and it is the mods job to decide where and when people should be punished for abuse

Interesting!

So would you support your quote above going into the BGRH charter? Do you think it would be better than the current blanket "no personal abuse" rule? Do you think that would be an improvement to BGRH and the site as a whole?

trout

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Please forgive my confusion.

I'm happy. All I wanted was to question this and get a straight answer. Its a pity robbo will not explain his actions further.

Thanks for the straight and honest replies.

/thread

Gandalf23

GuanYin wrote: »

A quick search found me 12 possible other cases predating the one you're referring in that cat alone where someone was abusive and there is no evidence of action being taken.

Could you provide links for these cases please?

GuanYin wrote: »

In any case, and I'm being honest here, I've said this many times before. It is absolutely no business of yours what sanction a mod took against someone. It is between the mod and the person and if the person wishes to make that public, they can.

Well I disagree. I believe feedback is the life blood of this site, and I will continue to make it where I see fit. I also believe that fairness and equality of application of community rules is essential in any online community such as this. And yes, I will question anywhere I see it not being applied. As should every member of this community. Thats how we grow and evolve.

But hey, thats just my opinion. I dont seem to be getting too much agreement here.

DeVore

I love the way he twists anything he can and avoids what he cant.


I have a question, if a long time user came along and made that remark, a user who had previously shown themselve to be a positive supportive poster, and the user, when challenged put their hand up and said "I was having a bad day and in my defence I was provoked but I apologise none the less because its not in my nature and I havent done it before and will try not to again".... What do you think my response to that user would be?

I pose this question to the following users and I would really appreciate a candid honest answer to it.

Gandalf23, Daithi, Roundy, Boston. I'd also welcome answers from anyone who supports the notion that I get unfair preferential treatment.

What do you think, given my past manner of dealing with things, what do you think I would do?

DeV.

The Recliner

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Interesting!

So would you support your quote above going into the BGRH charter? Do you think it would be better than the current blanket "no personal abuse" rule? Do you think that would be an improvement to BGRH and the site as a whole?

If it was decided to amend the charter then I would have no problem being quoted on it

That decision isn't mine and I don't see myself ever being elected Mod so I doubt it ever will be

Plus it is more a rule placed by the site owners and enforced site wide so it isn't really up for debate

Also I doubt most of the users of Boards would support it and I am not egotistical to think that my personal opinion is worth more than the users and owners of this sites

Gandalf23

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't think you will see it become what you want, it's not yours.
IF you want a place to be prefect then I suggest you build your own.

Well actually this community is partly mine, and I have contributed to building it. As have you, and trout, and robbo, and everyone who has ever joined or posted or contributed in any way. This is a community made up of people ... we make it, and without us there is nothing ... boards.ie is more than just the machine code and servers you seem to think it is.

Pity you have such a narrow view. Pity you want descenting voices to leave.

Well I'm not leaving. I'm staying because I belong here. I'll continue to call things as I see them. I'll continue to contribute to this community, and you should be thanking me for that. Just as you should be thanking every other person who has made this site what it is today.

Gandalf23

DeVore wrote: »

I love the way he twists anything he can and avoids what he cant.

Are you talking about me or the BGRH mods

DeVore wrote: »

I have a question, if a long time user came along and made that remark, a user who had previously shown themselve to be a positive supportive poster, and the user, when challenged put their hand up and said "I was having a bad day and in my defence I was provoked but I apologise none the less because its not in my nature and I havent done it before and will try not to again".... What do you think my response to that user would be?

I pose this question to the following users and I would really appreciate a candid honest answer to it.

Gandalf23, Daithi, Roundy, Boston. I'd also welcome answers from anyone who supports the notion that I get unfair preferential treatment.

What do you think, given my past manner of dealing with things, what do you think I would do?

OK dev, I'll answer this as honestly as possible if you can refrain from accusing me of trolling. I am making genuine feedback (in my own way admittedly ... it might not be to all tastes but it's genuine nonetheless) in an attempt to make this community stronger. I'm not willing to engage with you if you think I'm trolling or you are just going to dismiss me. I'm willing to engage honestly and openly with you only if you give me the same respect.

What say you?

DeVore

Sure, why not, I have no problem with dissent. If I did half the posters on this thread wouldnt be here. Damn, half the mods and a few of the SMods wouldnt be here.

I'll pay you that respect if you return it because I feel you have really been way off the mark, I mean.... right off the plantantion but you arent the first and I've converted many before you.

Give me an honest answer to my question.

DeV.

DeVore

A short honest answer.

DeV.

Nevyn

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Well actually this community is partly mine, and I have contributed to building it. As have you, and trout, and robbo, and everyone who has ever joined or posted or contributed in any way. This is a community made up of people ... we make it, and without us there is nothing ... boards.ie is more than just the machine code and servers you seem to think it is.

So you feel invested in the place, lots of people do.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Pity you have such a narrow view. Pity you want descenting voices to leave.

There have always been room for dissenting voices the admins have always allowed for feedback to be the place in the market square where those who wanted to rant, rile and rave could do, that way it has helped their 'benevolent dictatorship' but how sustainable that is moving forward I don't know.

I do know that if people are really and truly unhappy with the site then they can vote with their feet and leave and some day that could well be what I do.
What I won't do is hang around raining on other people's parades cos I don't like how things are any more.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Well I'm not leaving. I'm staying because I belong here. I'll continue to call things as I see them. I'll continue to contribute to this community, and you should be thanking me for that. Just as you should be thanking every other person who has made this site what it is today.

Think that if you want but other people are free to think that you are negatively contributing and actively deconstructing this place which they have invested in. Just like you gleefully started that thread in BGRH when pighead's ban was lifted. Yes that was soo helpful and contributing to the forum and the site as a whole.

Gandalf23

DeVore wrote: »

Sure, why not, I have no problem with dissent. If I did half the posters on this thread wouldnt be here. Damn, half the mods and a few of the SMods wouldnt be here.

I'll pay you that respect if you return it because I feel you have really been way off the mark, I mean.... right off the plantantion but you arent the first and I've converted many before you.

Give me an honest answer to my question.

I'll be a difficult one to convert. Maybe I'll convert you!

OK, I'll answer as honestly as possible. This is honest and there is nothing personal in this ... just pure undiluted feedback.

DeVore wrote: »

I have a question, if a long time user came along and made that remark, a user who had previously shown themselve to be a positive supportive poster, and the user, when challenged put their hand up and said "I was having a bad day and in my defence I was provoked but I apologise none the less because its not in my nature and I havent done it before and will try not to again".... What do you think my response to that user would be?

Gandalf23, Daithi, Roundy, Boston. I'd also welcome answers from anyone who supports the notion that I get unfair preferential treatment.

What do you think, given my past manner of dealing with things, what do you think I would do?

The following is my personal opinion. I am not stating anything as fact ... just giving as honest an opinion as possible.

I think you definitely get preferential treatment on this site. I can understand this, but its a very bad thing for the site and the community as a whole. You have special powers here and with those powers comes extra responsibility. You should not be above the rules, and it looks awful if you are immune (or even perceived to be immune) to rules you yourself have set and expect others to follow. You might argue this is not the case, but you need to be above reproach on this. I suggest that its made clear that admins CAN indeed be banned, and you personally expect all mods to apply the rules equally to you. I also suggest that you lead from the front. I respect a lot of what you have done ... this site can potentially be greater than the sum of its parts and needs a great leader. This will be especially true in the next few years ... discussion boards might not even be around in 5 to 10 years ... we need to become stronger and evolve as a strong united community. As I said above, this site is more than servers and source code ... we are people and some of us will shout where we see injustice. We make this site ... we ARE this site, and you have facilitated that. This is not my personal "crusade". Its not a personal attack on the site ... its telling a friend that something is wrong, and trying to ****1ng do something about it.

I know a lot of people here (including you) have a problem with me and my feedback. I should have given up long ago. I'm still here because we have something special as a community, and I honestly believe I can make a positive difference. If anything I have said has made even one person think then it's all been worthwhile.

Your specific question about the long term user ... I believe you would probably make them take a ban and then welcome them back. I have seen this argued many times. I have seen you support mods in this and I understand why you do this.

I know you might disagree with me. At least you know my honest opinion.

And btw, I am not interested in applying for CM (as I jokingly said in another post on another thread). You couldn't afford me :D

muffler

Gandalf23 wrote: »

OK dev, I'll answer this as honestly as possible

Well?

I haven't seen your answer yet. For someone who has persistently asked demanded answers you are a tad slow in reciprocating.

the_syco

Thaedydal wrote: »

the place in the market square where those who wanted to rant, rile and rave

I think the problem may be that there is no snow where the complainer is?

Gandalf23

DeVore wrote: »

A short honest answer.

oops ... the above probably too long :eek:

DeVore

There is absolutely no way I would ban that user. Not in a million years.

I note you couldnt resist getting a speech in all the same.

DeV.

Gandalf23

Thaedydal wrote: »

There have always been room for dissenting voices the admins have always allowed for feedback to be the place in the market square where those who wanted to rant, rile and rave could do, that way it has helped their 'benevolent dictatorship' but how sustainable that is moving forward I don't know.

I do know that if people are really and truly unhappy with the site then they can vote with their feet and leave and some day that could well be what I do.
What I won't do is hang around raining on other people's parades cos I don't like how things are any more.

Think that if you want but other people are free to think that you are negatively contributing and actively deconstructing this place which they have invested in. Just like you gleefully started that thread in BGRH when pighead's ban was lifted. Yes that was soo helpful and contributing to the forum and the site as a whole.

To be honest I don't think you like dissenting voices. Or anyone disagreeing with you. And you don't really get this place do you? Pity, but not surprising.

And Pighead was 100% right in that feedback thread.

Sparks

Daithi McGee wrote: »

Going forward you should actually have a criteria for mods. Not willing to behave yourself on forums you don't mod? Fail. You are a representitive of boards.

No, you're not. I'm a mod, not a representative of boards.ie ltd. I'm not a paid employee, I've signed no contract, I have agreed to nothing which says I have to represent a commercial entity to any set standard.

I am a volunteer who volunteers to moderate a forum in which I have significant mental investment because it's a forum about something I care about. I give up my time willingly to ensure a service is provided to the people in my sport, a service which has been perhaps the best thing that has ever happened to my sport (in my opinion) because it had the effect of getting other groups in my sport to straighten up and fly right. I'm proud of that. But I'm not a paid employee, this is not a job I do.

You're talking about establishing criteria to be a mod, which means you're talking about establishing criteria to fire someone from being a mod, which means that you're opening a can of worms including:

• Who decides the criteria or how they're measured
• Who monitors the mods and what are their criteria
• How do you decide to issue sanctions?
• What sanctions can you issue?
• What are the appeals processes?
• and the biggie, How long until some mod is sanctioned, doesn't like it, sues boards.ie and causes all manner of havoc?

No thanks, that sounds like a good way to kill boards.ie to me, and it's too good to take out behind the chemical sheds just yet.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I think you definitely get preferential treatment on this site. I can understand this, but its a very bad thing for the site and the community as a whole. You have special powers here and with those powers comes extra responsibility. You should not be above the rules, and it looks awful if you are immune (or even perceived to be immune) to rules you yourself have set and expect others to follow. You might argue this is not the case, but you need to be above reproach on this.

Neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the above for the moment, can I ask why you think that's necessary? Or more accurately, what would be the consequences if no change was made?

Because I think you've missed a logical step along the way there.

Gandalf23

DeVore wrote: »

There is absolutely no way I would ban that user. Not in a million years.

I note you couldnt resist getting a speech in all the same.

You are unbelievable. You ask for an honest answer and then accuse me of giving a speech when I am trying to be as honest as possible.

Is that your idea of respect?

Because I have just lost the final tiny shred of respect I had for you.

DeVore

You did make a speech. You've used this entire thread as a soapbox for your opinion and you havent taken one word on board. Thats why people are sick of hearing you, you are pontificating and you are wrong, badly badly wrong while you gleefully crap on the work of the mods, pretending to be holier-then-thou.

I dont believe you. I will stand on my record and I'm going to give you the last word and lock this thread tomorrow night after midnight.

DeV.

Gandalf23

DeVore wrote: »

You did make a speech. You've used this entire thread as a soapbox for your opinion and you havent taken one word on board. Thats why people are sick of hearing you, you are pontificating and you are wrong, badly badly wrong while you gleefully crap on the work of the mods, pretending to be holier-then-thou.

I dont believe you. I will stand on my record and I'm going to give you the last word and lock this thread tomorrow night after midnight.

/edited to remove a hot headed response/

You stand on your record indeed. Stand away. People will make up their own minds on you and I and what has been said here tonight.

GuanYin

Well, speaking of how people should be treated. If I had the authority, you'd be banned from this forum now.

You talk about respect and dignity and you post something like that. You did the same to me. You might disagree with me, you certainly disagree with Devore but noone has spoken to you in that tone or with that language, yet you feel you can.

Gandalf23

GuanYin wrote: »

Well, speaking of how people should be treated. If I had the authority, you'd be banned from this forum now.

You talk about respect and dignity and you post something like that. You did the same to me. You might disagree with me, you certainly disagree with Devore but noone has spoken to you in that tone or with that language, yet you feel you can.

Yes you are right ... I've edited the post to remove things said in haste.

Where did I treat you with a lack of dignity and respect btw?

Overheal

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Yes you are right ... I've edited the post to remove things said in haste.

Where did I treat you with a lack of dignity and respect btw?

Shall I signal to the Stenographer?

Lets be straight: I don't think anyone (including myself) hasn't at some point had a dig at GuanYin. I've never seen anyone on this site put up with such constant criticism without cracking under pressure.

I'm still here because we have something special as a community, and I honestly believe I can make a positive difference. If anything I have said has made even one person think then it's all been worthwhile.

...

Well actually this community is partly mine, and I have contributed to building it.

...

Well I'm not leaving. I'm staying because I belong here. I'll continue to call things as I see them. I'll continue to contribute to this community, and you should be thanking me for that. Just as you should be thanking every other person who has made this site what it is today.

So let me get this straight... You want to have DeVore banned (for what?) but consider yourself beyond reproach for some 1500 posts and 4 years?

If it worked like that I'd be the Boards Pope.

tallaght01

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Yes you are right ... I've edited the post to remove things said in haste.

Where did I treat you with a lack of dignity and respect btw?

Dude, you've made your point. There are people who see your point,and some who don't.

But if you hang around here just begging for the owner of the site to be banned you're just going to get yourself all stressed out.

DeV has said he was wrong to say what he did. It's no the end of the world. But it's all turning into a nasty spat now. Nothing is being achieved at this stage. It's just people fighting.

You can see that as well as I can, surely?

Just walk away, dude. Honestly. DeV said he was wrong, he knows he was wrong. But we've all called someone a tool or whatever at some point in our lives when we've lost it.

Everyone should get a second chance.

Just walk away, take a deep breath. The oul adult channel "frfeeview preview" is just starting :pac: So turn off your computer, and relax in front of the TV, and everything will seem less important in the morning

Jazzy

Just walk away!

i can see the points been made here but it has all been built up into a big bowl of nothing. there will always be preferential treatment on sites like this, but i think that is mainly down to trust. if u know a user well and know wat to expect of them then u can put a certain degree of trust into wat he or she will say. u can put trust into how they mean wat they are saying and take the appropriate action. the rules will never be as black and white as people will think they are, heck guanyin banned me once on soccer for calling a player a scumbag in a thread about scumbag players!
actually there is a good point. if u want to see (generally) good moderating in action with no preferential treatment then look at the soccer forum. its a vipers pit of arguements and watnot but it manages to keep itself afloat without being completely black & white on the rules. and a lot of that comes down to trust.

and as with most in life, trust reflects itself on you. reap wat you sow etc.