Childcare cutbacks as public pay spared

Zynks

So first this spineless government went for the elderly, now they are going for the children and families, which are an easier target than well organised public servants.

If we had a system of directly elected head of state this would be a case for impeachment. :mad:

Ful article at http://www.independent.ie/

professore

Emmm ... what childcare? There isn't any ?

Zynks

Well, I agree there, but they have been under the illusion that the child allowance is providing childcare. See the article I added to the firt post.

NewDubliner

Zynks wrote: »

So first this spineless government went for the elderly, now they are going for the children and families, which are an easier target than well organised public servants. If we had a system of directly elected head of state this would be a case for impeachment. :mad:
Ful article at http://www.independent.ie/

Read the whole article before posting? You've been conned again by IN&M. (just as with the infamous Liam Lawlor car-crash story...)

You'll see that later on (in the smaller print) the Indo contradicts itself and admits that there could be pay cuts (up to 10%), increased workloads (due to non replacement of staff), pay and promotion freezes for those carrying the workloads of non-replaced staff and then heavy levies on public-service workers.

Why is the headline not "Childcare cutbacks as rich property speculators spared"?

This is a non-story based on no new information just a re-hash of the speculation of the past week.

IN&M are trying to manipulate public opinion and draw the heat away from their rich friends.

irish_bob

proof is ever any was needed that fianna fail never look past the next election

party before country

Tazz T

Why are we spending 900m on overseas aid when we're the ones that are going to be needing overseas aid this year?

themadchef

I know childrens allowance has been there forever. My question is though, when they brought in this under 6 payment why did they bring it in across the board? To be honest i really don't know why everyone got it.

Is it called the early childcare supplement i think...could be wrong on that. But, if you're not working why do you need to get it, are you not at home anyway? Why were government not supporting the people who actually wanted to work when the work was there? Or support the ones who do get a job.

Granted there are a lot of people unemployed now who would gladly take any job they could get. I'm just sick of them hitting the workers for every last cent.

I think the government want out until the good time roll again. There's going to be murder if they cut the children's allowance across the board and indeed this supplement, which we've only had a short time is very definitely in for a major rethink imo.

Zynks

Tazz T wrote: »

Why are we spending 900m on overseas aid when we're the ones that are going to be needing overseas aid this year?

In fairness, we are still not starving, we have drinking water and the dole. Where aid is targeted at saving lives, we should do our best to retain it.

irish_bob

Tazz T wrote: »

Why are we spending 900m on overseas aid when we're the ones that are going to be needing overseas aid this year?

if its handouts your looking for from overseas , better vote yes to lisbon next time round

fugazied

More of the same from the governments unfortunately. Meanwhile banks clean up with their massive bailout.

gazzer

I thought that an extra 5% of public servents wages was going to be deducted for increased pension contributions? Is this not going ahead now?

nesf

themadchef wrote: »

I know childrens allowance has been there forever. My question is though, when they brought in this under 6 payment why did they bring it in across the board? To be honest i really don't know why everyone got it.

Vote buying would be the cynic's answer. Similar to the silliness of non-means tested medical cards for the pensioners.

Zynks

nesf wrote: »

Vote buying would be the cynic's answer. Similar to the silliness of non-means tested medical cards for the pensioners.

This discussion in the medical cards is silly in my view. People who "don't deserve" a card because of their "wealth" most probably have private health insurance anyway, so the cost of reviewing the merit of each case is a waste.

On the child allowance, the "universal" approach is another lazy way out for the state, just like education: they fund it but they are not responsible....

The truth, IMO, is that childcare should be at least tax deductible on the high end of the scale (there is free childcare at the other end for unemployed parents seeking jobs for instance).

Children are the true wealth of this country who will end up paying for our pensions in the future, and taxing them is madness.

Biggins

I see all ESB staff are still getting their pay rise!
Here: http://www.thepost.ie/breakingnews/ireland/mhsngbsnidgb/

turgon

Tazz T wrote: »

Why are we spending 900m on overseas aid when we're the ones that are going to be needing overseas aid this year?

I think its something to do with the fact that people overseas are actually lesser off then we are. Surprise surprise. Many of the recipients of aid wouldnt be moaning about their government, they simply have none.

silverharp

nesf wrote: »

Vote buying would be the cynic's answer. Similar to the silliness of non-means tested medical cards for the pensioners.

A couple of personal examples come to mind, in our case both the child allowance and under 6 payment have just gone into deposit account, never needed it in the first place and wouldnt notice it if its gone.

in another case my mother lives 3 minutes walk from us, after being in hospital for a bit the HSE paid for some new orthepedic furniture and paid for a home help for several months. Again my mother is not short of a few quid and could easily paid for this stuff herself

there is huge waste here, plus additional administration trying to organise and budget for things that many people can do for themselves.

NewDubliner

gazzer wrote: »

I thought that an extra 5% of public servents wages was going to be deducted for increased pension contributions? Is this not going ahead now?

It might. The fact is that the Indo's headline screams one thing and the body of the story whispers another.

Th 5% thing is not straightforward. Some public servants pay full PRSI and a large part of their pension entitlement is made up from the Contributory Social Welfare pension, just like anyone in the private sector. They also get paid more than pre-1995 staff who don't pay full PRSI and are not entitled to the CSWP. Their position is precarious as their pension is at the discretion of the government and thay lose all pension entitlement if moved to the private sector or sacked.

gazzer

NewDubliner wrote: »

It might. The fact is that the Indo's headline screams one thing and the body of the story whispers another.

Th 5% thing is not straightforward. Some public servants pay full PRSI and a large part of their pension entitlement is made up from the Contributory Social Welfare pension, just like anyone in the private sector. They also get paid more than pre-1995 staff who don't pay full PRSI and are not entitled to the CSWP. Their position is precarious as their pension is at the discretion of the government and thay lose all pension entitlement if moved to the private sector or sacked.

I have just read the indo story and you are dead right. The body of the story tells a different tale altogether. Im getting sick of the civil service bashing that seems to be coming from all quarters to be honest. Im in the CS since 1991, have 3 promotions under my belt and am currently on a salary of 43,000 euro. All my friends who work in the private sector are on well more than me and not one of them is under threat from being let go. None of them started paying for their pension until the last couple of years yet I started paying for mine at age 19 yet somehow I am the bad guy because I have to contribute for 40 years into a pension before I get the full entitilment. To all the people who are giving out about CS and PS pensions let me ask you a question... When did you start paying into your pension? Was it as soon as you started a full time job or did you wait until later in life?

I dont mind taking a pay cut at all as luckily I dont have any kids and can afford to take a hit but the thing is I dont trust the morons in government to use the money correctly.

nhughes100

I think we can wait till tomorrow to find out what's really in the government's plans. I agree that the early childcare supplement(grand a year thing) was nothing but a vote buyer, I've said it before, having kids is a choice and if you can't afford them then don't have them, we're not here to pay for your mistakes. Like a poster has said already I know several people who just put the childrens allowance and that 1000 euro into an account that will be basically an 18th birthday present.

They've already save half a billion going after social welfare fraud, I think there's scope for that to be improved upon.

I've no problems with increments/overtime/expenses and allowances for public servants being frozen but the public service pay bill would want to be decimated for it to solve all the government's problems and no politician is going to be responsible for putting that many people on the dole.

ixoy

nhughes100 wrote: »

I've no problems with increments/overtime/expenses and allowances for public servants being frozen but the public service pay bill would want to be decimated for it to solve all the government's problems and no politician is going to be responsible for putting that many people on the dole.

I believe if all PS/CS took 0 pay for a year and no pension contributions, then we'd immediately solve the issue (20bn annual cost to a 20bn defiicit, right?). I think this is a very fair and equitable option and shall now go suggest it to the Irish Independent

segaBOY

Biggins wrote: »

I see all ESB staff are still getting their pay rise!
Here: http://www.thepost.ie/breakingnews/ireland/mhsngbsnidgb/

Good ol ESB, consumer choice is sill severly limited (if there is any?) so it is understandable how these guys still think and operate.

I know AirTricity have the business market and Bord Gais is going into it however they still work in a seriously uncompetitive oligopoly and if you deny ESB staff what they want they'll just go on strike at the drop of a hat.

Disturbing.

jmayo

Zynks wrote: »

In fairness, we are still not starving, we have drinking water and the dole. Where aid is targeted at saving lives, we should do our best to retain it.

There are sections of this country where you can not drink the water for fear of being posioned e.g Galway and Ennis.

turgon wrote: »

I think its something to do with the fact that people overseas are actually lesser off then we are. Surprise surprise. Many of the recipients of aid wouldnt be moaning about their government, they simply have none.

Maybe we would be better off without one, it might save us 100 odd million and the litany of mistakes they have also perpetrated over the last 10 odd years.
Dictator for anyone ?

gazzer wrote: »

I have just read the indo story and you are dead right. The body of the story tells a different tale altogether. Im getting sick of the civil service bashing that seems to be coming from all quarters to be honest. Im in the CS since 1991, have 3 promotions under my belt and am currently on a salary of 43,000 euro. All my friends who work in the private sector are on well more than me and not one of them is under threat from being let go. None of them started paying for their pension until the last couple of years yet I started paying for mine at age 19 yet somehow I am the bad guy because I have to contribute for 40 years into a pension before I get the full entitilment. To all the people who are giving out about CS and PS pensions let me ask you a question... When did you start paying into your pension? Was it as soon as you started a full time job or did you wait until later in life?

I dont mind taking a pay cut at all as luckily I dont have any kids and can afford to take a hit but the thing is I dont trust the morons in government to use the money correctly.

Agree on the last point, you can't trust FF to do anything bar look after themselves and their backers.

As for the rest of your post....
You are guaranteed a set pension I believe, a lot of people in private sector are looking at their pensions being decimated no matter when they started contributing :rolleyes:
They will not have a defined benefit like you :mad:

You may have friends that are on over 43,000 and are supposedly in no danger of being fired (although that can be open to discussion).
I know people in public sector who are lazy incompetents and are good singers, does that mean you are all lazy incompetents with good voices :rolleyes:
We can all base our assumptions on a few instances, but it always makes for poor science and analysis.

Can you account for the fact the average industrial wage is well below 43,000 and the 100,000 odd increase on live register are all, bar a few from Kildare county council, private sector workers ?

When will some of our public sector workers (and unions) get into their heads that the money is not there from tax revenues and probably can't be borrowed.
High revenue intake over the last 7 odd years was predicated on a non sustainable cash cow, where lots of Irish people were buying houses from each other like mad eejits using cheap credit.

There are also I fear people in the private sector who are also burying their heads in the sand.
They believe that cuts and tax increases are great so long as they should not affect them.
Example I believe was lady phoning up Joe Duffy complaining that she should not have to pay property tax on her 10 residential properties :rolleyes:
I am afraid there are a lot of people in for a shock, if they think the rest of us will shoulder the mess and let them off scot free.

We don't want any "narrow backs" around here these days.
Everyone must shoulder the load, the bigger the shoulders the more of the load.

PS Cowen, Harney and a few more in the government are well built and very well fed with big shoulders so they can start the ball rolling

nhughes100

ixoy wrote: »

I believe if all PS/CS took 0 pay for a year and no pension contributions, then we'd immediately solve the issue (20bn annual cost to a 20bn defiicit, right?). I think this is a very fair and equitable option and shall now go suggest it to the Irish Independent

Wow you should join FF with that sort of short term thinking. What do we do with the pay bill the following year? Not to mention the governments cut of taxes out of that 20 billion would mean a further defecit of between 6 and 10 billion. Sure lets shut the entire country down for the year and open it up as New Ireland.

nesf

nhughes100 wrote: »

Wow you should join FF with that sort of short term thinking. What do we do with the pay bill the following year? Not to mention the governments cut of taxes out of that 20 billion would mean a further defecit of between 6 and 10 billion. Sure lets shut the entire country down for the year and open it up as New Ireland.

Eh, you didn't detect any sarcasm there?

nhughes100

None what so ever, although I was wondering what that smile was all about. Although With all the public sector bashing that's going on....

nesf

nhughes100 wrote: »

None what so ever, although I was wondering what that smile was all about. Although With all the public sector bashing that's going on....

Honestly, anyone suggesting that we just not pay public workers for a year is either a little tapped in the noggin or pulling the piss.

big dan

The problem is that child care in creches is too expensive. Find a cheaper alternative. What was wrong with paying a trusted family friend a few bob to look after kids. My mam has looked after kids for years in her own home. Get your thinking caps on because it's only going to get worse for everyone.

foxy06

big dan wrote: »

The problem is that child care in creches is too expensive. Find a cheaper alternative. What was wrong with paying a trusted family friend a few bob to look after kids. My mam has looked after kids for years in her own home. Get your thinking caps on because it's only going to get worse for everyone.

Its grand for people who have family members that are not in jobs themselves. Not everyone has that option.