Transformers 2 teaser

Venom

Deleted User wrote: »

I really can't figure out why so many people are complaining. Just what did they expect, Godfather 2 levels of greatness. If I despise the first part of a franchise I don't pay good money to see the sequel and then spend hours moaning about how bad it was.

For every one person who dislikes the film a dozen like it. Just look at the box office figures, the film has recieved dreadful reviews yet it's become the biggest film of the year and on it's way to being one of the biggest films of all time.

Why is it so hard for you to figure out that people going to see a big budget summer action flick may expect some sort of semi decent storyline to go along with the crazy action stuff?

The Dark Knight/Batman Begins
Terminator 2
Preditor/Preditor 2
Robocop
Aliens
Rambo 4
Die Hard 1-3
Spiderman 1-2
Ironman
True Lies

All the above listed movies were presented as summer blockbuster fare but actually had a decent plot to go along with the CGI, explosions and jokes. TF2 is not being judged as a craptastic movie compaired to the likes of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or the Godfathers its being judged crap when compaired to other action movies ffs.

Otacon

Venom wrote: »

Why is it so hard for you to figure out that people going to see a big budget summer action flick may expect some sort of semi decent storyline to go along with the crazy action stuff?

The Dark Knight/Batman Begins
Terminator 2
Preditor/Preditor 2
Robocop
Aliens
Rambo 4
Die Hard 1-3
Spiderman 1-2
Ironman
True Lies

All the above listed movies were presented as summer blockbuster fare but actually had a decent plot to go along with the CGI, explosions and jokes. TF2 is not being judged as a craptastic movie compaired to the likes of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or the Godfathers its being judged crap when compaired to other action movies ffs.

Have you seen the original? Were you expecting Michael Bay to suddenly consider plot in his movies?

I don't understand how people can trash this film's plot. It was never meant to have one. Its like people saying that Crank 2 is too far-fetched and over-the-top!

paulieeye

Otacon wrote: »

I don't understand how people can trash this film's plot. It was never meant to have one. Its like people saying that Crank 2 is too far-fetched and over-the-top!

Thats completly different. A film can be far-fetched and still contain a plot. It just has to make sense in its own universe. To quote one of the questions from that Q/A review

If you had to pick a single scene that exemplifies Michael Bay's utter disdain for story and continuity, what would it be?
When five Decepticons sink to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve Megatron's corpse. A submarine tracks five "subjects" going down, and when they get there, one of the Decepticons is killed to give parts to Megatron. 5 -1 +1 = 5, right? No, because the sub somehow tracks "six" subjects coming up. Not only is this very basic math, this is the simplest of script errors. It could not possibly have been more than one page apart in the script. And yet Michael Bay either didn't care to notice or didn't give a ****. "Math? Math is for pussies. My movies are about **** blowing up, man."

BlitzKrieg

Not only is this very basic math, this is the simplest of script errors. It could not possibly have been more than one page apart in the script.

its also one of the easiest to fix in the post. JUST CUT THE LINE! or if you really need a line, ADR a new one.

I don't understand how people can trash this film's plot

I trash it because there's too much of it getting in the way of the brainless action.

If you are gonna do brainless action then stick with a simple plot and focus on moving characters from set piece to set piece, be they comedy or action. Unless you are going to make a serious effort at a decent plot then dont complicate matters with drawn out badly put together plot elements that fall flat on their face and end up irritating the viewer as its getting in the way of the action and doesnt have the common decency to shut up and sit at the back while we watch pretty explosions.

pixelburp

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

its also one of the easiest to fix in the post. JUST CUT THE LINE! or if you really need a line, ADR a new one.

not that I want to be mistaken for a Michael Bay sympathiser, but basic mathematical cock-ups can happen even the best movies. For years BladeRunner had that mysterious 6th replicant that didn't actually exist (and wasn't until that Final Cut, out on DVD & decades after the fact, that they re-dubbed the line)

Venom

pixelburp wrote: »

not that I want to be mistaken for a Michael Bay sympathiser, but basic mathematical cock-ups can happen even the best movies. For years BladeRunner had that mysterious 6th replicant that didn't actually exist (and wasn't until that Final Cut, out on DVD & decades after the fact, that they re-dubbed the line)

I always figured the mysterious 6th replicant was ment to be Dekker.

pixelburp

Venom wrote: »

I always figured the mysterious 6th replicant was ment to be Dekker.

Nope; continuity cock-up. There really was meant to be a 6th replicant, it was another female character I think, but due to time / budget constraints they cut her character but forgot to tie up the loose ends

Venom

pixelburp wrote: »

Nope; continuity cock-up. There really was meant to be a 6th replicant, it was another female character I think, but due to time / budget constraints they cut her character but forgot to tie up the loose ends

Still 1 missing character over the course of a entire movie is still not nearly as bad as a missing character from a 3 minite scene imho

BlitzKrieg

the review of transformers 1 here actually sums up the defence of the films quite well, but also rips apart everything that sums up both films

http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Transformers.php

Galvasean

fluke wrote: »

Hey i didn't say any of that. You completely misquoted me!

Sorry I should have spaced out my post better.
I should have said I agreed, followed by a period before moving on to my next point.

Venom wrote: »

Why is it so hard for you to figure out that people going to see a big budget summer action flick may expect some sort of semi decent storyline to go along with the crazy action stuff?

The Dark Knight/Batman Begins
Terminator 2
Preditor/Preditor 2
Robocop
Aliens
Rambo 4
Die Hard 1-3
Spiderman 1-2
Ironman
True Lies

All the above listed movies were presented as summer blockbuster fare but actually had a decent plot to go along with the CGI, explosions and jokes. TF2 is not being judged as a craptastic movie compaired to the likes of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or the Godfathers its being judged crap when compaired to other action movies ffs.

Spider-man 2? You still make a valid point with the vast majority of your examples though.
Transformers 2 was very poor plot point wise. Example:

Surely when Sam found the Allspark shard he could have given it to Bumblebee and said "This looks very important, bring it to Optimus'

.
For me the likes of Termiantor 2 (one of the best films ever made IMO) and the Dark Knight are a cut above the vast majority of blockbusters. Others liek Transformers 2 are still very enjoyable to me, but as films aren't quite up to the same standard. Still enjoyable though.

uncleoswald

Galvasean wrote: »

Spider-man 2?

Spidy 2 was great, its 3 that sucked balls.

Preditor 2 was a tad rubbish though.

Galvasean

uncleoswald wrote: »

Spidy 2 was great, its 3 that sucked balls.

I liked Spidey 2, but from a plot point/story perspective it's a bit poor.
Example:

Just after Spidey and Doc Oc have their fight on the skyscraper the police come to chase Doc Oc. He basically goes around the corner and they give up. 'Bah, we cant go around corners!'

faceman

I hated Spidey 2 and 3.

Venom

Venom wrote: »

Why is it so hard for you to figure out that people going to see a big budget summer action flick may expect some sort of semi decent storyline to go along with the crazy action stuff?

The Dark Knight/Batman Begins
Terminator 2
Preditor/Preditor 2
Robocop
Aliens
Rambo 4
Die Hard 1-3
Spiderman 1-2
Ironman
True Lies

All the above listed movies were presented as summer blockbuster fare but actually had a decent plot to go along with the CGI, explosions and jokes. TF2 is not being judged as a craptastic movie compaired to the likes of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or the Godfathers its being judged crap when compaired to other action movies ffs.

Look at the films you list and one thing comes to mind. Well a few things do but first up of the films you list 3 were written and directed by James Cameron. While it's true that Transformers 2 is far from the giddy heights of The Dark Knight it's still an entertaining romp. Of the films you mentioned I love most of them but they are in a different league to Transformers. How many other Summer blockbusters are there which are equally as bad if not worse than Transformers 2?

For every great Blockbuster there are a dozen dreadful ones. Also of the films you list 10 of them are aimed at adults and as such have adult ratings which reflect the content. Transformers 2 is aimed at kids and while it has some questionable content it remains a kids film.

BlitzKrieg

spidey 2 felt like a better version of spidey 1.

I swear they took scenes and dialogue straight from 1 over to 2.

Venom

Deleted User wrote: »

Look at the films you list and one thing comes to mind. Well a few things do but first up of the films you list 3 were written and directed by James Cameron. While it's true that Transformers 2 is far from the giddy heights of The Dark Knight it's still an entertaining romp. Of the films you mentioned I love most of them but they are in a different league to Transformers. How many other Summer blockbusters are there which are equally as bad if not worse than Transformers 2?

For every great Blockbuster there are a dozen dreadful ones. Also of the films you list 10 of them are aimed at adults and as such have adult ratings which reflect the content. Transformers 2 is aimed at kids and while it has some questionable content it remains a kids film.

I posted that list only due to the amount "duh actions movies dont need to have a plot duh" types posting in this thread. With a director like MickaBay I never once expected it to be a classic like T2 or any of the others on that list but damm it Bay could of at least tried to make a semi decent flick.

I think TF2 being based on a toy and being aimed at kids is just the same as Spiderman 1 and 2 being based on a comic and being aimed at kids but the later were damm good movies

faceman

Venom wrote: »

I posted that list only due to the amount "duh actions movies dont need to have a plot duh" types posting in this thread. With a director like MickaBay I never once expected it to be a classic like T2 or any of the others on that list but damm it Bay could of at least tried to make a semi decent flick.

Yeah i think we need to nip the whole "action movies dont need to have a Godfather plot to be good" line in the bud.

Of course they dont need the plot of a drama but you expect the plot to be somewhat believable and real within the physics that the writers and filmmaker has created. Given also, TF2 had a bigger budget and improved special effects, I would at a minimum have expected better action scenes.

But it didnt.

Why? Well in my opinion, because the script/story let it down.

So in a way, if it had a better plot then perhaps the action scenes could have improved on the first movie.

One of the complaints of the first movie was that at times you couldnt follow what was going on. Despite that, i enjoyed the freeway battle and the final battle scene far more than the action scenes in TF2, and i feel the original flicks battle scene were in many ways, superior to TF2.

There was a greater edge and excitement to it. a greater sense of hopelessness during the final battle and the soundtrack playing was far more suited, bar the random insertion of pointless rock songs.

Mackman

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it seems a lot of people hated it. And i can see how people could hate it, its all based on expectations.
Personally my expectations were for 2 and a half hours of robots kicking the ****e out of eachother, stuff blowing up and a few laughs thrown in. and thats exactly what i got.
yeah a there were problems: plot holes, confusing plot lines, script problems and other problems, but even with all that i still had a great time.

A few people were sayin how

Megatron was weaker and got his ass handed to him, well the way i saw it was that NEST has been goin for 2 years and they have developed (with the help of the Autobots) more advanced weaponry that do more damage to the Transformers

FrostyJack

Megatron was weaker and got his ass handed to him, well the way i saw it was that NEST has been goin for 2 years and they have developed (with the help of the Autobots) more advanced weaponry that do more damage to the Transformers

I think people were saying that because Optimus was beating him easily, he was afraid of Fallen and in the end he ran like a bit*h. As for NEST advanced weaponary, I didn't see any, they were using assault rifles mainly and Optimus even said he wouldn't given humans any technology

Mackman

FrostyJack wrote: »

I think people were saying that because Optimus was beating him easily, he was afraid of Fallen and in the end he ran like a bit*h. As for NEST advanced weaponary, I didn't see any, they were using assault rifles mainly and Optimus even said he wouldn't given humans any technology

They did give the humans technology, but not their weapons. So i would presume that they would have more knowledge of their anatomy and thus would be able to develop more effective weapons.
But in the Megatron/Optimus fight ill agree that it was a bit stupid that Optimus was able to kick so much more ass this time, but it was still entertaining

faceman

Mackman wrote: »

Personally my expectations were for 2 and a half hours of robots kicking the ****e out of eachother, stuff blowing up and a few laughs thrown in. and thats exactly what i got.

My expectations were the same but i thought the action scenes were weak, badly written and badly planned.

You still need a script and story for an action scene.

Bay wasted it.

Sure the transformers looked better on screen this time round but that doesnt make up for weak action scenes.

Galvasean

Really? I taught the fight in the woods was the best fight out of both Transformers movies (better than Prime v Bonecrusher on the freeway).

Galvasean

Venom wrote: »

I posted that list only due to the amount "duh actions movies dont need to have a plot duh" types posting in this thread.

faceman wrote: »

Yeah i think we need to nip the whole "action movies dont need to have a Godfather plot to be good" line in the bud.

I respectfully disagree.
In some rare cases action movies actuallt come out better off for not having decent or coherrent storylines. For example Commando is one of the finest action movies of all time despite featuring a storyline that could be written down on a matchstick case, incoherent plot, terrible acting and woeful dialogue. All of these factors somehow ad to the film as opposed to taking away from it. The result is an all out action classic, a beautiful fluke if you will.

pixelburp

faceman wrote: »

You still need a script and story for an action scene.

I think that's an important line that people of the "who needs scripts" camp perhaps need to pay attention to. Maybe someone with film production experience can yea / nae this, but my feeling would be that you can't just go to your second unit and / or FX team and ask for some random action scene, it has to be scripted it, storyboarded and like any other script, edited for consumption.

faceman

pixelburp wrote: »

I think that's an important line that people of the "who needs scripts" camp perhaps need to pay attention to. Maybe someone with film production experience can yea / nae this, but my feeling would be that you can't just go to your second unit and / or FX team and ask for some random action scene, it has to be scripted it, storyboarded and like any other script, edited for consumption.

Yep, thats my point exactly. A badly scripted/storyboarded action scene is just trash.

lostexpectation

blur

TheDoc

I'm actually genuinely put of going to see this because of the overwhelming ****ty reviews.

I dont pay much attention to critics in the last decade.
I do pay some attention to boards reviews and opinions but I would not take it as gospel.


Mostly I take the opinion of my mates because they have similar taste.

They told me save my money and go see public enemies instead.

That says all I need to know about TF2

plissken

Venom wrote: »

Why is it so hard for you to figure out that people going to see a big budget summer action flick may expect some sort of semi decent storyline to go along with the crazy action stuff?



Preditor/Preditor 2
Rambo 4
Spiderman 2

Im not saying any of these movies were bad, quite the contrary but they were all every bit as silly, implausible and as full of plot holes as transformers.

plissken

paulieeye wrote: »

Thats completly different. A film can be far-fetched and still contain a plot. It just has to make sense in its own universe. To quote one of the questions from that Q/A review

If you had to pick a single scene that exemplifies Michael Bay's utter disdain for story and continuity, what would it be?
When five Decepticons sink to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve Megatron's corpse. A submarine tracks five "subjects" going down, and when they get there, one of the Decepticons is killed to give parts to Megatron. 5 -1 +1 = 5, right? No, because the sub somehow tracks "six" subjects coming up. Not only is this very basic math, this is the simplest of script errors. It could not possibly have been more than one page apart in the script. And yet Michael Bay either didn't care to notice or didn't give a ****. "Math? Math is for pussies. My movies are about **** blowing up, man."

There are plot holes in every movie, even in the greatest action movie ever made, Terminator 2. one scene at the steel mill near the end has always bugged me. When the T1000 finally cathes up with Sarah connor, why in all that is holy does he treathen to kill her if she doesnt call to her son, why not just kill her and be done with it when he can mimic her voice and image already, as is seen in the next scene ?

constitutionus

L31mr0d wrote: »

stumbled across this. Don't know what it is but it's damn funny

http://www.head-case.org/forums/movies/6613-hilarious-transformers-2-q-style-review.html

thats the FUNNIEST thing ive read in ages !

my favorite bit is when he describes how the decepticons sit about peacefully doing nothing , then run for their ****ing lives when the autobots turn up and brutally murder them !

its ACTUALLY what happens in the movie and i never copped it. i still cant stop laughing now thinking about that

by the way have seen it for the third time now and its even better than the second. i REALLY dont understand this as its counter intuitive but there you go. i seem to remember someone saying something similar about the first on DVD.

oh and the fourteen day take for the film?

600 million dollars, foreign and domestic. apparently the first to do so this year. the critics may hate it but its rolling in the readies so 3 is a cert now. (yes i know its greenlight already but ****ty returns on this couldve scupperd that)