Ireland's atheist majority?

Húrin

I am in my early 20s, in an institution of third level education in Dublin. Most of my peers are middle-class, and from all over Ireland and most appear to be atheists (and many so testify if asked). Not ardent, Dawkins-type atheists, but nonetheless they live without God. All religious groups are small minorities.

Now, this contradicts the cliche that Ireland is a mostly Catholic country. I expect that there are many people who have spiritual feelings and beliefs but unfortunately keep it privatised and stunted.

Do you think (not hope) that this is representative of the way Ireland is going soon?

Galvasean

I'm also in my early 20s and have noticed that most of my peers/age demograph are non-religious.
It seems to be the older generations that are more religious. For example, in my grandparents' generation near enough everybody is religious, goes to mass, prays etc. While my parents generation (late 40s early 50s) mostly tend to be 'religious' in that they believe in a God of some sort (although not necessarily most of the Bible) and go to mass on christmas day. They certainly wouldn't be as 'hard core' as the older generation.

I'm not sure if it's the shape of things to come mind. Whose to say most of us young aheists wont find God when we're closer to death's door? On the other hand you could argue that they by and large will remain atheists, due to having a much broader knowledge of the world. It goes without saying my generation wouldbe much more educated about science etc. than my gtrandparents' generation.
Which is right? I'll tell you in about 60 years.

philologos

It seems this way to me too, but I do also see quite a lot of people who are quite enthusiastic about Christianity in the same age group. I think it is a positive thing that Irish people seem to be taking what they believe more seriously and thinking about it before they make a choice though.

Jakkass

Jakkass wrote: »

It seems this way to me too, but I do also see quite a lot of people who are quite enthusiastic about Christianity in the same age group. I think it is a positive thing that Irish people seem to be taking what they believe more seriously and thinking about it before they make a choice though.

I'd agree with that. It seems that many people are actually thinking about their faith, or lack thereof, and coming to their own conclusions.

The Mad Hatter

Welcome to college.

ChocolateSauce

In certain demographics, maybe. I'm in UCD doing chemistry, and I'd say between 60-80% of people taking science are atheists, about half of them also being anti-theists. However, in other faculties the rate is much lower, more in line with the national average I'd say. Of course, in college atheism will always be higher than in society, as there is a proven link between education level and atheism.

Zombrex

Húrin wrote: »

I am in my early 20s, in an institution of third level education in Dublin. Most of my peers are middle-class, and from all over Ireland and most appear to be atheists (and many so testify if asked). Not ardent, Dawkins-type atheists, but nonetheless they live without God. All religious groups are small minorities.

Now, this contradicts the cliche that Ireland is a mostly Catholic country. I expect that there are many people who have spiritual feelings and beliefs but unfortunately keep it privatised and stunted.

Do you think (not hope) that this is representative of the way Ireland is going soon?

It is a generational thing really. Most people I know who are "Catholic" are Catholic only when their mum is asking them do they go to mass.

So I think the figures of who is Catholic (ie who actually believes), particularly in my generation, are wildly wrong. People put down "Catholic" because they think that is what they are supposed to do, even if they don't have any supernatural belief at all. Cultural Catholics as people say.

I don't know about people having "spiritual feelings" that they keep quiet, when I was in college (5 years ago) the exact opposite was true, I knew non-believers who went to mass because a) others were or b) again the mammy would be on their back if they didn't.

Often in a group I would notice that one believer (genuine) would ask people are they going to mass and everyone else would say yes simply because that was the done thing. I even went along a few times, though I was trying to score one of the girls (yes, yes, straight to hell). It was more of a social/cultural thing

So I certainly had no experience with people hiding any beliefs, though possibly that was because being "openly atheist" was not the done thing.

In a group of people claiming all to be atheists it might be just as hard to say that actually you believe in Christianity. Who knows. I certainly hope that any of the atheists don't publicly ridicule anyone for having beliefs, but unfortunately it does happen.

lostexpectation

there a lot of old and very young people too.

philologos

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

In certain demographics, maybe. I'm in UCD doing chemistry, and I'd say between 60-80% of people taking science are atheists, about half of them also being anti-theists. However, in other faculties the rate is much lower, more in line with the national average I'd say. Of course, in college atheism will always be higher than in society, as there is a proven link between education level and atheism.

I disagree with you on the latter. Studies in the USA and Australia found that there was a higher percentage of university graduates than average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_behaviour_and_educational_attainment

I'd say the same is true of my congregation.

Zombrex

lostexpectation wrote: »

there a lot of old and very young people too.

yes but I don't want to sleep with any of them

er .. wait ... what were we discussing?

Húrin

Galvasean wrote: »

On the other hand you could argue that they by and large will remain atheists, due to having a much broader knowledge of the world. It goes without saying my generation wouldbe much more educated about science etc. than my gtrandparents' generation.
Which is right? I'll tell you in about 60 years.

Whether atheism or Catholicism or any religion is true or false need not be the concern of this thread. My opinion is that if I see the majority of one generation adopting a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or falsehood of the belief, and everything to do with social factors that determine it.

Wicknight wrote: »

In a group of people claiming all to be atheists it might be just as hard to say that actually you believe in Christianity.

It is. It takes a lot of confidence to say that you are a Christian. Most atheists don't think about their atheism as much as you do, and have this idea that Christianity has been disproven somehow. Others make assumptions based on stereotypes of either Catholics or right-wing American evangelicals. Fortunately few ridicule openly, but being quietly judged is just as bad.

Jakkass wrote: »

I disagree with you on the latter. Studies in the USA and Australia found that there was a higher percentage of university graduates than average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_behaviour_and_educational_attainment

I'd say the same is true of my congregation.

I don't think it really matters. Education is not value free, and educated people are not immune from social determinants on their beliefs. In many fields such as science, there is no training in critically assessing beliefs that are not determined by demonstrable facts.

mickeydevine

20 years ago families and friends would meet every weekend at mass. It was more of a community thing and kept people in touch. Now better transport links and mobile phones keeping in touch is a lot easier. We're all part of the golbal community now also. Every question we have can be answered with our own research and we can make up our own minds about the world and how we got here, not just the ideas we we're taught in school and growing up. Its about the evolution of the human mind/consiousness.

Húrin

mickeydevine wrote: »

20 years ago families and friends would meet every weekend at mass. It was more of a community thing and kept people in touch. Now better transport links and mobile phones keeping in touch is a lot easier. We're all part of the golbal community now also. Every question we have can be answered with our own research and we can make up our own minds about the world and how we got here, not just the ideas we we're taught in school and growing up. Its about the evolution of the human mind/consiousness.

Whether atheism or Catholicism or any religion is true or false need not be the concern of this thread. My opinion is that if I see the majority of one generation adopting a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or falsehood of the belief, and everything to do with social factors that determine it.

eoin5

One thing I saw that was very different in college was the taboo around religions. There are certain things that society unfortunately cant tolerate yet for one sticky reason or another but in general religions are fair game for a laugh in college.

I'm a big fan of the looser taboos, religions are funny business. Religious people shouldnt fear the laughter, and if they cant take some good natured humour its their problem. Its a bit like wherever youre from someone can make fun of you for it in good spirit (I'm from Clare, theres ammunition enough ). Lets hope it carries through the generation.

fitz0

Húrin wrote: »

I am in my early 20s, in an institution of third level education in Dublin. Most of my peers are middle-class, and from all over Ireland and most appear to be atheists (and many so testify if asked). Not ardent, Dawkins-type atheists, but nonetheless they live without God. All religious groups are small minorities.

Out of curiosity Húrin what course are you doing?

Zombrex

Húrin wrote: »

In many fields such as science, there is no training in critically assessing beliefs that are not determined by demonstrable facts.

that is critical assessment :rolleyes:

you just don't like that answer because it doesn't confirm what you want to be true.

mickeydevine

Húrin wrote: »

Whether atheism or Catholicism or any religion is true or false need not be the concern of this thread. My opinion is that if I see the majority of one generation adopting a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or falsehood of the belief, and everything to do with social factors that determine it.

It has everthing to do with the truth or falsehood of the belief.

sukikettle

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sukikettle

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sukikettle

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Dades

Suki, could at least one of your posts be on topic please.

Zombrex

sukikettle wrote: »

Wick God didn't give us faith to be definable by Science...he's a good bit more sophisticated than all that theory and pish

It must be wonderful to be able to both make stuff up and then at the same time not realise you are just making stuff up.

If I could do that I would spend my entire time believing I was going out with Scarlet Johansen.

Zamboni

Húrin wrote: »

Do you think (not hope) that this is representative of the way Ireland is going soon?

Yes. Bearing in mind that a lot of this generation call themselves christians but in reality are not practicing, it is highly unlikely that the next generation will even call themselves christians at all.
I like to think of religions on a product life cycle. Fortunately for the species, a number of them are on decline. It will be well past our lifetimes though, that the last shackles of superstition are removed.

Handsome Bob

I'm in UCD, and I've rarely come across someone that has God as an active part in their life. Whether that means they are self-proclaimed atheists I do not know.

sukikettle

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Zamboni

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm in UCD, and I've rarely come across someone that has God as an active part in their life. Whether that means they are self-proclaimed atheists I do not know.

The chapel there would make a great pub...
Actually better yet it might make a few more badly needed parking spaces!

philologos

Zamboni wrote: »

Yes. Bearing in mind that a lot of this generation call themselves christians but in reality are not practicing, it is highly unlikely that the next generation will even call themselves christians at all.
I like to think of religions on a product life cycle. Fortunately for the species, a number of them are on decline. It will be well past our lifetimes though, that the last shackles of superstition are removed.

Or will the children of atheists in the future seek for a higher purpose in life, and be introduced to the Bible outside the traditional sphere of how it's been done in the past?

Húrin

Zamboni wrote: »

Yes. Bearing in mind that a lot of this generation call themselves christians but in reality are not practicing, it is highly unlikely that the next generation will even call themselves christians at all.

I agree. I would say that even among my generation only those unbelievers of least self-reflective ability, and the actual believers themselves, would call themselves Catholics.

mickeydevine wrote: »

It has everthing to do with the truth or falsehood of the belief.

I don't think that this generation is any more gifted than any previous generation to discern truth.

Many of the problems we have are the same ones most societies did. We have some new problems and lack some of their problems. They did some things better than we do. For instance, modern civilisation has caused more social alienation than existed in medieval times. This doesn't mean medieval times were better. This shows however that not everything gets better with time, certainly not the human moral condition.

I think that one of the the worst aspects of our epoch is the colonisation of human consciousness by consumerism. Ed Bernays and his followers abused the research of Freud and other psychoanalysts in order to effectively create false needs, and sell false solutions for them.

The modern 'sophisticated' 21s century man's mind is stuffed with as much myths and superstitions as ever.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm in UCD, and I've rarely come across someone that has God as an active part in their life. Whether that means they are self-proclaimed atheists I do not know.

This is what I mean. Not many "evangelical atheists" but I would say there is an agnostic/atheist majority.

fitz0 wrote: »

Out of curiosity Húrin what course are you doing?

It are a seecret. :pac:

It's a BA course in a relatively small NUI college in Dublin city centre.

Handsome Bob

Zamboni wrote: »

The chapel there would make a great pub...
Actually better yet it might make a few more badly needed parking spaces!

Hmmmmmm.....I think I read in an article a while back that the Priest (s) do get plenty of "work" so to speak from people, either religious or non-religious, looking for guidance through personal grief or trauma. Like it or not, the Chapel serves a positive purpose I suppose. Especially given that waiting lists for seeing the University guidance counsellors are apparently quite high.

Zombrex

sukikettle wrote: »

You've never known Jesus Christ Wick...

Never known Scarlet Johansen either, that is was my point.

You don't know Jesus. Christians don't know Jesus. They just think they do because it makes them feel good.

And for some reason you have lost (or never had) the critical ability to determine that you only believe this because it is making you feel good. As I said if I could do the same I would convince myself I was dating Scarlet Johanson, and in fact we had sex a few hours ago. But unfortunately for me my great disadvantage is that I would know that this wasn't true.

Bliss is ignorance

sukikettle

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