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Death penalty for serious crimes?

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    #32
    mowgli-mcnob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭mowgli-mcnob


    There are pros & cons to the death penalty. BUt the only con i can see is that someone could be killed by the death penalty and later be found innocent. The pro's far outweigh the off-chance that he will be innocent and sentenced to death. It would lower the number of crimes being commited if they thought they could be sentenced to death and not just a few years behind bars with food and a roof over der head. We should "delete" the serious crime-commiters from this country


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    #33
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    grizzly wrote: »
    I'd be against the death penalty. Because the legal system is very far from perfect (eg Donegal cops) and the poor would be the only ones that would be killed. People with money could afford to argue their sentences down/off in court.

    We would ensure that white collar crime would carry the death penalty.
    [1] Treason
    [2] Profiteering
    [3] Insufficient respect for Ireland


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    #34
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    mowgli-mcnob wrote: »
    We should "delete" the serious crime-commiters from this country

    What is the big deal about so called innocents being killed anyway.. Everyone dies.


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    #35
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mena wrote: »
    re·of·fend [ r ə fénd ] (past and past participle re·of·fend·ed, present participle re·of·fend·ing, 3rd person present singular re·of·fends)

    intransitive verb
    Definition: offend again: to commit a second or subsequent offense

    What I meant was, at best, it will stop those dealt with under the death penalty from committing the crime, or any crime, again. However, it does not work as a deterrent to crime in the first place.



    Source: Link. Note - that source would be biased.

    But isnt this selective.

    DP in the USA is not always mandatory - its for extreme cases and usually sought by the prosecutor.

    THe incidence of murder in Ireland increased following the abolition of the DP. Also isnt the detection rates in murders of people not directly connected to the victim is fairly low?

    THere are 2 issues as a punishment and a deterent. I certainly think that some crimes merit it as a punishment.

    The deterent effect is secondary and could be looked on as an added bonus.

    Also Ireland is a small country and our criminal community is smaller so the effect of an execution on a small country with a small number of media would have a more concentated effect.


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    #36
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    CDfm wrote: »
    THe incidence of murder in Ireland increased following the abolition of the DP.
    Ignoring correlation not being causation (assuming you're correct - did the murder rate actually increase after March 17 2002?), although we only got around to abolishing the death penalty in all cases in recent years, the last time someone was actually executed in Ireland was in 1954 so prospective murderers could at least be reasonably sure that it wasn't going to be a penalty they were going to face.


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    #37
    chiko1958
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭chiko1958


    I completly agree with the death penalty.. I only wish it was implemented in many more countries.. Child and Adult Abuse, especially sexual abuse, can be worse than murder in many cases.. People who commit such crimes, along with murder, should get the electric chair, in my opinion.. They should not get another chance by serving a jail sentence, for example..


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    #38
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    The death penalty is lovely in theory; unfortunately there are two problems with it. One is that innocent people have often been killed by states; the other is that it doesn't work as a deterrent, which has been proved by the many, many studies done on it.

    eg:

    murdrate-exec.gif


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    #39
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    luckat wrote: »
    The death penalty is lovely in theory; unfortunately there are two problems with it. One is that innocent people have often been killed by states; the other is that it doesn't work as a deterrent, which has been proved by the many, many studies done on it.

    eg:

    murdrate-exec.gif


    But it is also a punishment - it works as a punishment.

    Also- i imagine that juries would demand a higher standard of proof hang someone


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    #40
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    luckat wrote: »
    Mm. You think the Birmingham Six, for example, wouldn't have been hanged?

    The IRA men who planted those bombs could have saved their lives. As I say there will be innocent people hanged I am fine with that.


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    #41
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    mountainyman wrote: »
    As I say there will be innocent people hanged I am fine with that.

    You are fine with innocent people being hanged?


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    #42
    hblock21
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭hblock21


    I completly disagree with the death penalty. It is disgusting.

    Man murders man.

    Executioner (Man) kills (murders) murderer (Man)


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    #43
    hblock21
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭hblock21


    mountainyman wrote: »
    As I say there will be innocent people hanged I am fine with that.

    Lets frame you then execute you then????

    Happy.

    Probably wont be. Cause you'll be there sitting on the chair knowing you'll be dead in one minute. Knowing your completly innocent. GOD I'D HATE TO THINK OR EVEN COMPREHEND HOW THOSE (INNOCENT) PEOPLE WERE DEALING WITH THAT SITUATION.

    How about you? How would you feel. Put yourself on the chair.

    (I cant wait for the answer..........really ........cant wait.)


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    #44
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    hblock21, may I suggest that discussing things with someone on the (implicit) basis "you're not only wrong, but you're a complete bastard" isn't going to help you to reach agreement!


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    #45
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    CDfm wrote: »
    But isnt this selective.

    DP in the USA is not always mandatory - its for extreme cases and usually sought by the prosecutor.

    THe incidence of murder in Ireland increased following the abolition of the DP. Also isnt the detection rates in murders of people not directly connected to the victim is fairly low?

    THere are 2 issues as a punishment and a deterent. I certainly think that some crimes merit it as a punishment.

    The deterent effect is secondary and could be looked on as an added bonus.

    Also Ireland is a small country and our criminal community is smaller so the effect of an execution on a small country with a small number of media would have a more concentated effect.

    Yes, it is a punishment, but it is a step too far I think, a step that cannot be remedied if/when the wrong conclusion is reached in a court of law, which happens far, far too often. Though I am struggling here as to be fair, up until recently I would have been all for the death penalty... Not sure what has changed my mind to be honest. Maybe it's an age, parental thing.
    mountainyman wrote: »
    The IRA men who planted those bombs could have saved their lives. As I say there will be innocent people hanged I am fine with that.

    How the hell can you be fine with "innocent people being hanged"?


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    #46
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mena wrote: »
    Yes, it is a punishment, but it is a step too far I think, a step that cannot be remedied if/when the wrong conclusion is reached in a court of law, which happens far, far too often. Though I am struggling here as to be fair, up until recently I would have been all for the death penalty... Not sure what has changed my mind to be honest. Maybe it's an age, parental thing.

    Funny enough - I was anti-death penalty and Ive gone the opposite way. Maybe its the spate of drug related murders and senselessness of these.

    Whats the alternative -life meaning life - and how harsh would you have the regime and how much would it cost.

    The punishment for murder should be bleak and black.

    Where is just depriving someone of liberty enough. Take the Scissors Sisters -it hardly seems punishment the conditions they live in after what they were convicted of.


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    #47
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    mountainyman wrote: »
    The IRA men who planted those bombs could have saved their lives.

    Don't even think that for a second. After they were caught for other attacks The balcombe street active service unit who planted the guilford bombs brought it to the attention to the courts during their trial that innocent people were serving time. This was ignored outright by the courts/legal system and if they hadn't been caught they never would have admitted to it.

    I don't think it would be a deterrant and with a western legal system it will never be cost effective unless the convicted doesn't appeal.

    However, we should also look at it from a victims point of view. I know a girl who was raped. She was afraid to leave the house for months but the rapist later killed himself. After he did she found it much easier to get on with her life.

    It would be a sense of justice for victims of paedophiles/rapists and families of murder victims if the death penalty was brought in.


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