LoI Hooligans face tv exposure

Zebra3

Accoridng to the Sunday Tribune today, TV3 have been doing a documentary on hooliganism surrounding one of the Dublin derbies, Bohs-Shams which will be aired soon enough.

Loads of footage outside the grounds of fans of both clubs rioting. Just what the league needs as the new season is about to start. :rolleyes:

To be fair though, both clubs have had their heads in the sand over this sort of stuff during the last few years so maybe this sort of exposure will make them act.

YDMHSSB

i wouldnt cause these hooligans, cos thats a football term. id call these scumbags who will cause trouble anyway, with or without football.

_blank_

Every club in the country has these little Green Street wannabes associated with them at this stage.

Charlie

Propa nawty

Gavin "shels"

Look forward to the scenes from the 5th August match, as I was at it standing basically next to the camera man, and well nothing happened with the exception of a few bohs lads getting passed the line of Guards and then a bit of shouting.

Gavin "shels"

Des wrote: »

Every club in the country has these little Green Street wannabes associated with them at this stage.

But the thing is, I've been to Dalyer twice for Bohs-Rovers and both times I've been with my Rovers mate in the Connaught Stand, and the fact is, there is a large group of men from about their 20's to their 50's involved in this as well as the little Green St Elite crowds of teenagers. Even remember last season one of the older lads had a pair of binoculars looking voer at the BSC lads and reporting back to the rest of his morons.

Zebra3

Des wrote: »

Every club in the country has these little Green Street wannabes associated with them at this stage.

Des,

That is a complete and utter lie and you know it. :mad: How dare you come on here and disparage a large number of Irish clubs who have nothing but decent fans.

The fact is that there is going to be national tv coverage of the hooligan problem blighting our game which will reflect poorly on all clubs even those without the hooligan problem.

pablomakaveli

Zebra3 wrote: »

Des,

That is a complete and utter lie and you know it. :mad: How dare you come on here and disparage a large number of Irish clubs who have nothing but decent fans.

The fact is that there is going to be national tv coverage of the hooligan problem blighting our game which will reflect poorly on all clubs even those without the hooligan problem.

This justs reminds of the the Linfield fan who was pictured with a bloody nose when they were playing St.Pats last year. The whole thing was overblown by the media. I remember reading it on the Independents website and some guy left a comment saying he would never attend a LOI match over the "incident".

Given that their are very few problems with hooliganism in the league this documentary is going to give people a false impression of the league.

Gavin "shels"

pablomakaveli wrote: »

This justs reminds of the the Linfield fan who was pictured with a bloody nose when they were playing St.Pats last year. The whole thing was overblown by the media. I remember reading it on the Independents website and some guy left a comment saying he would never attend a LOI match over the "incident".

And they funny sort of thing about that "incident" is it was between two Linfield fans, and had nothing to do with rival fans.:rolleyes:

Gavin "shels"

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/feb/01/it-was-just-a-riot-with-kicks-and-fists-flying/

'It was just a riot with kicks and fists flying'
Ken Sweeney Entertainment Editor
New TV3 documentary probes Dublin soccer gang violence

The increasingly ugly scenes of violence between hooligan fans of Eircom League clubs Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians are to feature in a new documentary series on TV3.

An upcoming episode of Lawless Ireland charts violent encounters between Shamrock Rovers 'Ultras' and Bohemians 'Casuals'.

Much of the footage was filmed on the streets of Dublin before derby matches between the two clubs last summer and it is presented by TV3 reporter Brian O'Donovan.

"We spent a couple of nights at Eircom League games last summer and filmed these gangs fighting one another. It goes on all the time but this is the first time it's been properly documented," O'Donovan explained. The fights took place despite an increased garda presence around the north Dublin areas of Phibsborough and Drumcondra when fixtures are taking place.

"There will be hundreds of gardaí in Phibsborough on a match night. It makes no difference. We were there on a corner when the Rovers gang rushed the Bohemians gang. It was just a riot with kicks and fists flying. The gardaí manage to break it up, but then it just moves down the street and starts all over again," said O'Donovan, admitting he worried for his own safety while filming the clashes.

"When you're in the middle of these two gangs anything can happen. I was scared for myself and also for innocent people I saw getting caught up in the violence. We have one dramatic scene on camera where a man and his young son have to run for their lives when they find themselves among the two gangs."

While no member of the rival gangs was prepared to be interviewed on camera, the documentary makers claim the culprits are far from wayward teenagers.

"People say they're only kids. They're not. Some of these guys are in their 30s. That also explains why it's so co-ordinated. Incredibly, they have each other's mobile numbers, so Rovers and Bohemians hooligans can text one another arranging where these fights are to take place."

TV3 cameras were present during two matches where violence flared. The first took place outside Dalymount Park on 5 August 2008, while the second ugly scenes occurred outside Tolka Park during a Rovers v Bohemians fixture on 26 September 2008.

In August 2006, five men were arrested after a clash between Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians fans outside The Hill 16 Pub on Gardiner Street. During the 10-minute melee, hooligans hurled rocks, bottles and beer kegs at each other and passing cars.

February 1, 2009

Quint

It'll be like any of those TV3 documentaries. Rubbish. The're worse than The Sun

Zebra3

pablomakaveli wrote: »

This justs reminds of the the Linfield fan who was pictured with a bloody nose when they were playing St.Pats last year. The whole thing was overblown by the media. I remember reading it on the Independents website and some guy left a comment saying he would never attend a LOI match over the "incident".

Given that their are very few problems with hooliganism in the league this documentary is going to give people a false impression of the league.

What you are saying is true about there being few incidents of hooliganism in our league, but this particular game suffers from plenty of "incidents". If this programme exposes the scum who drag down our league and means some of them face criminal charges, I for one will thank those that sanctioned it regardless of their agenda.

Take Bohemians for example, they encouraged the growth of their hooligans by allowing their flags to be stored inside their stadium between games and allowing them to be openly hung up inside their ground promoting violence until some of their fans engaged in a sectarian attack on a pub in the occupied six counties.

Ever since Pat Fenlon signed for us during the late 90s their fans would chant about him being a "dirty orange bastard" while he played and managed us and then they claimed they were shocked that some of their support would carry out a sectarian attack in their clubs name in Derry. :mad:

As for the Shams....I can't wait for their excuses. One of their directors was convicted of an incident down in Limerick during their stint in the 1st division and they refused to accept his resignation. Any time anyone causes trouble with their club all we ever hear is the "shoot the messenger" bull****. :rolleyes:

SligoBrewer

Zebra3 wrote: »

Des,

That is a complete and utter lie and you know it. :mad: How dare you come on here and disparage a large number of Irish clubs who have nothing but decent fans.

The fact is that there is going to be national tv coverage of the hooligan problem blighting our game which will reflect poorly on all clubs even those without the hooligan problem.

Seconded. We have no hoolies, nor will we ever have.

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

Every club in the country has these little Green Street wannabes associated with them at this stage.

UCD don't.

Seaneh

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

UCD don't.

hard to have hooligans when you dont even have fans!

dfx-

Gavin shels wrote: »

"We spent a couple of nights at Eircom League games last summer and filmed these gangs fighting one another. It goes on all the time but this is the first time it's been properly documented," O'Donovan explained. The fights took place despite an increased garda presence around the north Dublin areas of Phibsborough and Drumcondra when fixtures are taking place.

Well there's the first lie unearthed..

Sizzler

LOL at the ultras and casuals. So these lads are ripping up towns all across Ireland are they everytime their team plays away, I doubt it somehow. A few skangers having a pop at each other everytime Bohs play Pats / Rovers, whoop de doo, they probably would be fighting amongst themselves anyway :rolleyes:

SectionF

A hysterical reporter, a picture of some bored cops, and some adolescents engaged in handbags. No attempt to ask either club for a comment, no doubt for fear that reality might dent their tawdry little story.

If you want to find trouble anywhere, you will find it.

I've brought kids to Bohs-Rovers derbies for years. The most exciting thing I've seen in terms of off-the-pitch action is a couple of hoodies running down a street. It seems it's more than a few schooligans who are suffering from Green Day fantasies.

everdead.ie

The terrible thing is that this kind of exposure could attract the wrong kind of fans to the league and only increase the trouble.

stovelid

Sorry, but i'm not going to support sensationalist attacks on the league by the media. This time it's the 'hooligan problem', next time it'll be something else.

Obviously there is a small problem with both clubs, I can count on one hand the amount of incidents (and using the word 'incidents' is flattering them) I've seen at Bohs/Rovers derbies in the 00's. That's not to say that they don't happen, but the two incidents we're talking about are public-order offences committed away from the stadium. I really don't see how the clubs can effectively police every incident that occurs in the city on Derby night.

monkey9

pablomakaveli wrote: »

This justs reminds of the the Linfield fan who was pictured with a bloody nose when they were playing St.Pats last year. The whole thing was overblown by the media. I remember reading it on the Independents website and some guy left a comment saying he would never attend a LOI match over the "incident".

Given that their are very few problems with hooliganism in the league this documentary is going to give people a false impression of the league.

Yeah, i was at that match. About four or five Linfield fans tried to get through a barrier inside the ground. The stewarts basically said, 'eh get back lads' and that was it.
The Linfield fans were let out first while the Pat's fans stayed behind for about ten minutes. When we got out, all the Linfield fans where gone, probably already on the motorway in their coaches.
I remember thinking at the time how the whole night passed off smoothly, i thought there would be a bit more trouble.
Then the next day, the Evening Herald had a front page headline of riots at the game, a picture of a Linfield fan with a bloodied face. This picture was used in other publications. One fan, bloodied!! They were going on about how disgraceful it was to have Riot police on the streets of Dublin (yeah, it was pre-cautionary,they weren't dealing with any riots)
As someone who was at the match, i couldn't believe what i was reading. Absolutely disgraceful. I wouldn't mind, but this was probably their biggest write up on the LOI ever! They had a few lines on the match about five pages into the sports section!

pablomakaveli

The worst fans iv ever witnessed at a match in this country were visiting foreign fans at european matches.

You might get the odd few scumbags (i would'nt even bother calling them supporters because they're not) at a match but iv never personally witnessed any trouble.

compared to other countries across europe and the world we've little problems with hooliganism in this country. I doubt this reality will get in the way of TV3 exaggerations though. The biggest shame here is that there will be people who will believe these exaggerations and their view of the league will be tarnished.

The only good thing is that TV3 are a ****e channel and few people watch it anyway.:pac:

bohsman

Did Shels lose their little hoolies and their leader after getting relegated or why is zebra on his high horse?

Gavin "shels"

Sizzler wrote: »

LOL at the ultras and casuals. So these lads are ripping up towns all across Ireland are they everytime their team plays away, I doubt it somehow. A few skangers having a pop at each other everytime Bohs play Pats / Rovers, whoop de doo, they probably would be fighting amongst themselves anyway :rolleyes:

Ultras and Casuals are two different things in Ireland and Britian so get your facts right, unlike over the rest of Europe and beyond were the word Ultras is linked with hooliganism.;)

Gavin "shels"

bohsman wrote: »

Did Shels lose their little hoolies and their leader after getting relegated or why is zebra on his high horse?

Well tbh I think there's a different between a few hormonal teenagers having a scrap after a match to groups of grown men having a scrap.

Every club in Ireland bar UCD would have these schooligans whereas Bohs and Rovers and to a smaller extent Cork would have grown men fighting aswell.

stovelid

Gavin shels wrote: »

Ultras and Casuals are two different things in Ireland and Britian so get your facts right, unlike over the rest of Europe and beyond were the word Ultras is linked with hooliganism.;)

Not according to them:

The increasingly ugly scenes of violence between Eircom League clubs Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians are to feature in a new documentary series on TV3.An upcoming episode of lawless Ireland charts violence between Shamrock Rovers "Ultras" & Bohemians "Casuals".

Really lads, the minor problems should be dealt with as best we can, but I'm surprised that any LOI fan would advocate getting behind gutter journalism like this and the Herag. They would marginalize, neglect and vilify all our clubs if it suited them, and it's sad to see other fans doing the old our shite smells of roses bit just because their club doesn't happen to be the immediate target this time around.

bohsman

As far as Bohs go they are barred from all Loi games - casuals and schooligans. People from the club travel to most away games making sure they dont get in. I say most because I saw 2 of the Derry4 at the Rovers game in Tolka.

pablomakaveli

Gavin shels wrote: »

Every club in Ireland bar UCD would have these schooligans whereas Bohs and Rovers and to a smaller extent Cork would have grown men fighting aswell.

Iv never witnessed any problems at matches iv been at or heard about any so unless you want to provide evidence of that i think you should stop needlessly tarnishing the reputation of City fans.

Quint

stovelid wrote: »

Not according to them:

The increasingly ugly scenes of violence between Eircom League clubs Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians are to feature in a new documentary series on TV3.An upcoming episode of lawless Ireland charts violence between Shamrock Rovers "Ultras" & Bohemians "Casuals".

LOL! TV3 will make it out to be like the bloods and the crips!
I bet they'll have about 3 shots of someone throwing something, a slight scuffle, and a group of lads running and they'll show the same stuff over and over with creepy music. No doubt the Joe Duffy listeners will be up in arms the next day.
Who gives a ****e about this show? I can't wait to see it to see what an embarressment it will be.
Remember the prostitution show they had? Spent the whole show trying to make out there was loads of human trafficing and women forced into prostitution, but the garda spokesman said there was none!

Gavin "shels"

stovelid wrote: »

Not according to them:

The increasingly ugly scenes of violence between Eircom League clubs Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians are to feature in a new documentary series on TV3.An upcoming episode of lawless Ireland charts violence between Shamrock Rovers "Ultras" & Bohemians "Casuals".

Exactly shows how under-researched this article is.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Iv never witnessed any problems at matches iv been at or heard about any so unless you want to provide evidence of that i think you should stop needlessly tarnishing the reputation of City fans.

I take it you weren't at any of the Shams -v- Cork matchs in Tolka this season or hear anything about it?

From what I've heard from a Rovers fan and a member of the so-called Cork City Casuals, that all 3 times after Shams-Rovers matches last season there was trouble, first two times involved about 15 Cork "fans", which they ended up running into Fagans the first time after they started trouble down on Richmond Rd, the second time was the same expect Fagans had closed it's doors and the 3rd time there was trouble outisde Tolka which resulted in their bus being attacked by Rovers hooligans.

From the same member of the CCC told me that there was trouble after the last game of the season against Bohs down around the shopping centre involving 20 Cork "fans".

The Cork "fans" who are involved are between 17-25 and a few of them are one's who have broken away from C84.

Also know there was some trouble down in Cork when Bohs were down there aswell.

No way am I saying all Cork fans are into this but there is a minority, so get the head out of the sand mate.;)

SectionF

Gavin shels wrote: »

No way am I saying all Cork fans are into this but there is a minority...

But you are saying all Bohs and Rovers fans are 'into this'?

Gavin "shels"

SectionF wrote: »

But you are saying all Bohs and Rovers fans are 'into this'?

Ofcourse not, but there would be a larger minority that the amount of Cork one's, if that makes sense.:pac:

pablomakaveli

Gavin shels wrote: »

I take it you weren't at any of the Shams -v- Cork matchs in Tolka this season or hear anything about it?

From what I've heard from a Rovers fan and a member of the so-called Cork City Casuals, that all 3 times after Shams-Rovers matches last season there was trouble, first two times involved about 15 Cork "fans", which they ended up running into Fagans the first time after they started trouble down on Richmond Rd, the second time was the same expect Fagans had closed it's doors and the 3rd time there was trouble outisde Tolka which resulted in their bus being attacked by Rovers hooligans.

From the same member of the CCC told me that there was trouble after the last game of the season against Bohs down around the shopping centre involving 20 Cork "fans".

The Cork "fans" who are involved are between 17-25 and a few of them are one's who have broken away from C84.

Also know there was some trouble down in Cork when Bohs were down there aswell.

No way am I saying all Cork fans are into this but there is a minority, so get the head out of the sand mate.;)

Ok i had'nt heard about those incidents. I don't get to travel on away games due to college and work. I doubt these guys are getting into Turners Cross though cause iv never witnessed anything there but i could be wrong.

bohsman

Gavin shels wrote: »

Ofcourse not, but there would be a larger minority that the amount of Cork one's, if that makes sense.:pac:

Define fan. As I say at Bohs they are banned. The majority of schooligans across Dublin are kids from various flat blocks that have attached themselves to a team for a fight, again banned from Dalymount, when theres trouble in Drogheda its always blamed on local scumbags when really its the same thing thats happening in Dublin.

_blank_

bohsman wrote: »

As I say at Bohs they are banned.

lol

Until they bought their way back in.

stovelid

Gavin shels wrote: »

I take it you weren't at any of the Shams -v- Cork matchs in Tolka this season or hear anything about it?

I was, and didn't see anything. Only Tolka fixture I saw bother at this year was the Bohs game that TV3 are ranting about. I saw nothing at the Dalymount fixture, as I heard that the trouble was quite a distance from the ground. As for Fagans, I have a pint in there before most Tolka 'home' matches. If there were pitched, pwopa Green Street battles outside every two weeks, I doubt they'd be still be admitting people with hoops gear/scarves like they do.

Obviously I'm not denying the Cork thing happened, just that it's hardly the Bushwackers stuff that TV3 and the Herag are going on about, and we're shooting ourselves in the foot by letting the public believe that there are pitched battles at every derby.

I think it's time we introduced this vid here, for those who haven't seen it. TV3 should use it for research...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLfG-dH7JBs

Gavin "shels"

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Ok i had'nt heard about those incidents. I don't get to travel on away games due to college and work. I doubt these guys are getting into Turners Cross though cause iv never witnessed anything there but i could be wrong.

I know for a fact that the guy I know gets into all the matches in Turners Cross, along with a few others that are involved, few of them do be in the Derrynane Road Stand (think that's the one anyway).

bohsman

Des wrote: »

lol

Until they bought their way back in.

They didnt. Unless you're talking about the fella taking the club to court - banned for "associating with known hoolies"

pablomakaveli

stovelid wrote: »

.


I think it's time we introduced this vid here, for those who haven't seen it. TV3 should use it for research...

I'd also suggest TV3 research the Roma/Lazio or Boca/River Plate hooligans to get an idea of what a real hooligan is.

(Brilliant vid by the way.:D)

thebaz

Does the Irish national team ever attract these "Casuals" ? I've never seen a hooligan at an Irish game , apart from Lansdown road in '95 , and they were all English

SectionF

Gavin shels wrote: »

I know for a fact that the guy I know gets into all the matches in Turners Cross, along with a few others that are involved, few of them do be in the Derrynane Road Stand (think that's the one anyway).

You seem to be on a personal mission here. I can understand the TV3 distortion: they have a product to hype, but how does a slur on the league benefit you?

monkey9

When is this documentary on anyway?

shane86

Quint wrote: »

Remember the prostitution show they had? Spent the whole show trying to make out there was loads of human trafficing and women forced into prostitution, but the garda spokesman said there was none!

No, but I did see the drugs documentary.

While I dont necessarily doubt the parts where he bought cocaine and weed, there was one part where he apparently got a junkie to lead hm to a dealer in an inner city flats estate.

While their brain might be a bit melted, I dont even think a junkie would see a tall, healthy looking guy with a country accent and think "cop" if he asked to buy heroin :pac:

Does the Irish national team ever attract these "Casuals" ? I've never seen a hooligan at an Irish game , apart from Lansdown road in '95 , and they were all English

At Cyprus there were a few locals hanging around pissed trying to cause trouble with people heading into Croker and a few scumbags in the stadium.

I saw one lad knock a leprachan hat off some guy walking up

*looks at Gavin Shels/ Des* :pac:

dreamers75

All clubs bar UCD have a problem with this, pretending it doesnt happen (cork) its the media (rovers) there was 4 and they banned (bohs) it was one linfield fan (pats) doesnt make the issue go away. It will happen again.

Or the worst one i hear is "didnt happen at the ground" if the match wasnt on it wouldnt have happened as it was sets of 2 teams who played in the match.

The Tv3 show will have the hill 16 incident on it and the pats linfield thing.

We all saying it shows the league in a bad light yet each and everyone one of us know there will be 2 things gauranteed this season, one there will be asterix on the table and 2 there will be an "incident" in Tallaght.

No point in defending the undefendable

bohsman

True but what is a club supposed to do when the trouble is happening miles away from the stadium? A better police force would be a help, not just culchie cops looking for overtime and a bit of aggro.

dreamers75

bohsman wrote: »

True but what is a club supposed to do when the trouble is happening miles away from the stadium? A better police force would be a help, not just culchie cops looking for overtime and a bit of aggro.

From Pats side, we created almost every incident that happened outside the ground by either deciding the crowd arrangments or allowing the gardai to change them. Both sets of fans exitting onto one street doesnt help.


From now on Bohs and Rovers fans are in the shed and one set of fans kept back for 20 minutes ( its been home fans the last 3 times ) its inconvienent for us but it works. Not a single problem.

I agree with the police dont help matters but seemingly we have the worst of the lot in the Kilmainham branch.

bohsman

The hill 16 incident happened 15 minutes after kickoff - match being in Tolka. There was rumour of trouble around the hapenny bridge an hour after the last game in Dalymount. We do the holding fans back thing aswell but if scum want to fight theyll find a way.

Zebra3

bohsman wrote: »

Did Shels lose their little hoolies and their leader after getting relegated or why is zebra on his high horse?

Some are around, but not sure how "active" they are in the First Division.

However they were not encouraged by our club unlike the thugs at Dalymount who were allowed store their flag inside Dalymount and hang their flag up at Bohs games promoting their group and its violent nature.

Only the sectarian attack on a pub in Derry by 30 of your scummers shamed your club in to taking action.

dfx-

If they wanted to see how the Green Street wannabes practice(free of Garda intervention), they could've shown up at the Rovers Drogheda game this season at Tolka when the 41C was smashed up off Dorset St. Or the numerous other games not involving Bohs v Rovers where the 16 was put in before and after the match..

Or the Dublin reg cars smashed up and 150 strong 'goodbye party' when Rovers went to Limerick in 2006..or whenever a Dublin side goes to Oriel with the police station 2 minutes walk from the ground..or the stones pelted at a Rovers bus in Athlone in 2006..or the assaults on Rovers fans in Derry by stewards in 2007..

We can all trade stories. As Des said everyone has them.

SectionF

Zebra3 wrote: »

Some are around, but not sure how "active" they are in the First Division.

However they were not encouraged by our club unlike the thugs at Dalymount who were allowed store their flag inside Dalymount and hang their flag up at Bohs games promoting their group and its violent nature.

Only the sectarian attack on a pub in Derry by 30 of your scummers shamed your club in to taking action.

You're 'not sure' of the position right now at your club, but you are blessed with unshakeable certitude when it comes to Bohemians, even if you must jump on TV3 and the Tribune's time-travelling bandwagon to support your fantasy. How convenient for you halo preservation efforts.
I suppose we should all get relegated and have no one come to our matches so that we could satisfy our excitable friends in the press.
While directors of Bohs have hardly covered themselves in glory in recent years in club management terms, they have been active on this issue. Bohs issued a strong policy in 2007 and have stuck to it. Its implementation has not been perfect, but it is real and it is serious. No doubt you and your tabloid TV friends will dismiss it. As they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good headline.

Zebra3

SectionF wrote: »

You're 'not sure' of the position right now at your club, but you are blessed with unshakeable certitude when it comes to Bohemians, even if you must jump on TV3 and the Tribune's time-travelling bandwagon to support your fantasy. How convenient for you halo preservation efforts.
I suppose we should all get relegated and have no one come to our matches so that we could satisfy our excitable friends in the press.
While directors of Bohs have hardly covered themselves in glory in recent years in club management terms, they have been active on this issue. Bohs issued a strong policy in 2007 and have stuck to it. Its implementation has not been perfect, but it is real and it is serious. No doubt you and your tabloid TV friends will dismiss it. As they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good headline.

I'm "not sure" of what they get up to since we were relegated cos there isn't really anyone for them to fight with in the 1st Division unlike the endless stream of higher profile games that happen in the Premier.

All that I said about Bohs is true, that statement coming after the pub was attacked in Derry.....