Hypothetical Question

mgmt

Do you think the current Irish Army could defend Ireland against an invasion by 1940s nazi Germany? Germany would still have superior numbers but Ireland would have the advantage of 60 years of technology. Would the Irish Defence Force fulfil its purpose and defend the country?

c-note

my sources say no

do you mean if ireland had been invaded during wwII, or just irl(now) vs. ger(1939-45)

tbh i dont know what equiptment the irish airforce or army have, but i wouldnt hold out much hope unless the allied forces came to defend us.

remember germany had the v2 rocket, it could reach london but i dont know about ireland.
i doubt very much we have any bombs at all!

maybe we could afford a eurofighter in about another 50yrs:P

seanybiker

not a chance. Irish army lol.

sickpuppy

With no air force a tiny navy and very little armoured units we cant even defend ourselves
from bloody spanish fishermen so a full invasion not a hope ,

Morlar

I would say had they decided to invade and we had been on our own then not a chance ! Battle hardened, blitzkrieg-experienced German army of that time would have wiped out any opposition in record time. Even todays equipment in current numbers would not have put a dent in them.

Any kind of Guerilla tactics post invasion would have been extremely difficult given the retalliation ratio the Germans often used in other occuppied countries/territories.

In terms of morale, equipment (ie the numbers of artillery, tanks, airforce etc) it would have been a walkover.

Our best chance for defence in that scenario would have been the RAF/royal navy as the english would not have wanted Ireland to fall imo.

TerrorFirmer

Todays Irish army would be decimated by the WW2 period German army. A relatively small active army like Israel could easily do it though - Ireland just doesn't have the equipment that would represent such a huge gap in time.

Morlar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Todays Irish army would be decimated by the WW2 period German army. A relatively small active army like Israel could easily do it though - Ireland just doesn't have the equipment that would represent such a huge gap in time.

With the israeli defence budget the even Isle of Man would pose problems. The israelis would be held back by their extreme reluctance to put their troops into harms way however.

Also calling them 'a relatively small army' is a bit of a misnomer - they are not relatively small in relation to Ireland which was what this discussion is about.

Also 'relatively small' would not be an accurate way to describe the defence budget/arsenal at their disposal.

TerrorFirmer

Morlar wrote: »

With the israeli defence budget the even Isle of Man would pose problems. The israelis would be held back by their extreme reluctance to put their troops into harms way however.

Also calling them 'a relatively small army' is a bit of a misnomer - they are not relatively small in relation to Ireland which was what this discussion is about.

Also 'relatively small' would not be an accurate way to describe the defence budget/arsenal at their disposal.

No but I meant in terms of a small army relative to the size of other belligerents. For example, the IDF with whatever its currently active personal is (150,000?) would cream a mid-20th century army of several million personal with its current equipment and available firepower. In fact even if it only had a few thousand men, well equipped with its currently available hardware, it would still decimate any large army group from the WW2 era.

Whereas a decently equipped single German brigade from the 1940's would destroy the Irish army in its current state. Because Ireland doesn't really have any hardware orientated towards waging a war of any kind. Obviously, it doesn't need it. But that was the hypothetical question...

marcsignal

good question OP

there is stuff we have now that would be a good advantage, like

modern training and tactics
Ranger wing for subversive activity
Night vision technology
84mm Anti tank Recoiless Rifle (bazooka) capable of knocking out most any tank
Styr is an excelent close quarters weapon
Our helicoptors would be useful (albiet few in numbers)
GPMG is possibly as good as the MG42
Scorpion Tanks (albiet few in numbers) are perfect for Irish terrain, and bloody fast
Mowag armoured cars
25 Pounder Artillery Pieces
Reasonable AA Capability

a lot would depend on how much heavy equipment and men they could land and how much ammunition we had, difficult to say really.

From what I understand, the plan is for the Army and RDF to fight a guerilla war if anything like that happened.

Mairt is probably your man there.

arybvtcw0eolkf

mgmt wrote: »

Do you think the current Irish Army could defend Ireland against an invasion by 1940s nazi Germany? Germany would still have superior numbers but Ireland would have the advantage of 60 years of technology. Would the Irish Defence Force fulfil its purpose and defend the country?

Yes, we would fight 'the war of the flea' and beat them.

Duck's hoop

Mairt wrote: »

Yes, we would fight 'the war of the flea' and beat them.

Could you elaborate on that a little? This is the German army we're talking about. Wouldn't they wait til Coronation street was on telly and drop a load of TNT on the few barracks we have left? Pretty much a wipeout I imagine.

Hard Larry

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that a little? This is the German army we're talking about. Wouldn't they wait til Coronation street was on telly and drop a load of TNT on the few barracks we have left? Pretty much a wipeout I imagine.

Could you elaborate a little?

Duck's hoop

Hard Larry wrote: »

Could you elaborate a little?

Seeing as Corry is one of the most popular progs on tv in Ireland I reckon there's a good chance the majority of soldiers are watchin it when on and so a very opportune time to invade. Also we've a bigger concentration of troops in fewer barracks since the budget and closedowns, Monaghan, Longford, Letterkenny etc, so the Germans drop a few payloads of bombs on these, at 7.30 and thats the Defence Forces finished. No guerilla warfare, least not from the professional army.

If this sounds ridiculous to you then maybe you don't know the Irish Army.

Hard Larry

Well looks like this Hypothetical scenario has been put to bed.

Good Job.

/checks pockets for troll feed...sorry none today.

Edit: Won't be be able to reply to any of your obviously highly informed and life experienced comments for the next 24hrs as I'll be on duty. TTFN.

Duck's hoop

Hard Larry wrote: »

Well looks like this Hypothetical scenario has been put to bed.

Good Job.

/checks pockets for troll feed...sorry none today.

Edit: Won't be be able to reply to any of your obviously highly informed and life experienced comments for the next 24hrs as I'll be on duty. TTFN.

HL - you're not annoyed surely? My 'troll - like' reply to this thread is based on one premise. If we were facing an unannounced invasion from the best organised, best trained, most professional army of the 20th century then I seriously doubt, assuming it was unannounced, that we'd be able to resist in any meaningful way.

Considering the relative battle experience of both armies, air and naval capabilities, armour, paratroop availability and general all round real world battle savvy, despite the 65 year technological gap I think we'd succumb.

Tactically we'd be out of it from the outset, if not for reasons as frivolous as the ones I stated then for other more concrete concerns. We've no system of defences like the Brits had in 42-45, stop lines, tank obstacles, tank traps etc. Our beaches, say around Wexford/Wicklow are totally exposed, miles and miles of lovely flat sand to land thousands of troops and materiel, totally unhindered considering the murderous fire which could be laid down from offshore and the air. Once on land with beach heads established I reckon it'd only be a matter of time before we completely succumbed.

Of course the idea of a true insurgency against an occupying force has its merits but as an earlier poster has said, the reprisals and brutal retalliatory acts of which the Nazi army was very prone to in such cases, France/Holland/Ossetia/Poland etc, would, in my opinion, so demoralise the general civilian population to render this last option very short lived.

I'd say our air defences would be negated PDQ and we just don't have the necessary 'materiel de guerre' to realistically join battle with those guys. We'd have to try of course. Valiantly.

Problem for the Germans of course is the supply chain and how to sustain that, long term, though we don't know, in this hypothetical situation whether they've invaded and subdued the Brits or are using Ireland as a stepping off point for subsequent invasion of that green and pleasant land.

I don't think, in the initial and crucial phases, that technological advancements in weapons systems would necessarily make a huge difference. Night vision would of course be invaluable in hit and run, harrying type raids against a larger force but again these would be token victories.

I understand the Defence Forces have moved on a huge amount in the last decade, light years ahead in terms of weaponry and general professionalism of the old FN and wool coats days. I meant to cause no offence but it's funny, the Corry idea was mooted, a few years ago, by a couple of people I know with extensive experience of the Irish Army. Alcohol fuelled granted but I thought of it when saw this thread.

And the point about the barracks/bases being closed down and consequent increased troop concentrations, susceptible to bombardment from the air, reaction speed etc was valid.

Hard Larry

I could care less about hypotethical scenarios. I live in a real world with real problems.

Your comments toward the soldiers of the Irish Army are an insult and demoralizing for both them and their families.

I know of at least 2 soldiers currently serving in Chad who browse these forums, any one who has ever served overseas away from home knows how hard it is to keep motivated and morale up amongst their comrades. The last thing those guys should have to read is some crap about a modern under-funded Defence Force collectively sitting down every evening to watch a soap opera, when they are busting their ass in the heat and the dust.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful gift but spare a thought for those who give up there time, families and sadly in some cases their lives to make sure others benifit from this gift.

concussion

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Seeing as Corry is one of the most popular progs on tv in Ireland I reckon there's a good chance the majority of soldiers are watchin it when on and so a very opportune time to invade. Also we've a bigger concentration of troops in fewer barracks since the budget and closedowns, Monaghan, Longford, Letterkenny etc, so the Germans drop a few payloads of bombs on these, at 7.30 and thats the Defence Forces finished. No guerilla warfare, least not from the professional army.

If this sounds ridiculous to you then maybe you don't know the Irish Army.

They'd hit a load of empty buildings - most people will be at home by then.

Morlar

concussion wrote: »

They'd hit a load of empty buildings - most people will be at home by then.

All assuming this is some kind of sneak nazi-zombie attack from out of the mists of time taking everyone in peacetime Ireland completely by surprise.

In reality if there was war in Europe to begin with then Ireland's defence forces would be on an emergency footing which would be expectedly different than how it is during peacetime.

ejmaztec

I think that the Irish Army would probably have more than the Germans to contend with.

My late uncle, reminiscing about his days in the LDF, told me about being given a helmet, a big coat, and an old gun with no bullets in it. He and some of his colleagues were told to patrol a beach in North Kerry. They had been messing and walking for a while before hearing a gunshot.

It was a local IRA volunteer who had fired a pistol in the air to draw their attention. He told them to feck off because he and his pals were training there. My uncle and his friends just turned around and went home.

Duck's hoop

Hard Larry wrote: »

Your comments toward the soldiers of the Irish Army are an insult and demoralizing for both them and their families.

I insulted nobody. And if the soldiers of the Irish army are demoralised by some randomer posting they might like a bit of coronation street on here then maybe they need to toughen up a little.

jimmmy

Hard Larry wrote: »

The last thing those guys should have to read is some crap about a modern under-funded Defence Force

lol Corny street ....no. It would be better to attack during fair city, or better still the local pub during a big football match.

If the Irish army think that they could compete against the German army, its an insult to the memory of those from that era ( many from UK, US, Russia and lots of other countries ) who gave so much. Far more people from Ireland alone volunteered and fought against the Nazis in WW2 than even currently serve in the Irish Defense force.

borisbullrunner

mgmt wrote: »

Do you think the current Irish Army could defend Ireland against an invasion by 1940s nazi Germany? Germany would still have superior numbers but Ireland would have the advantage of 60 years of technology. Would the Irish Defence Force fulfil its purpose and defend the country?

no i dont think the irish defence forces of 40,000 soldiers would stand a chance aganst even a 60 year old german force. they had some of the most advanced weapons of the time. includin v1 and v2 bombs, they'd devastate our cities and crush morale.

then theres their armoured divisions. we wouldnt, even in a modern world have any tanks that could match the tiger.

40,000 irish soldiers against 17million fanatical nazi's? step back a second and think about your question