GSP alleged greasing discussion

JohnMc1

Nothingcompares wrote: »

what's with your attitude?

<snip>

Nothingcompares

i wouldn't judge someone on their promotional videos. You're entitled to your opinion but I can't say I agree with you about anything, maybe i'm just a Penn nut hugger.

Seifer

BJ going ahead with complaint

Interview with GSP
Talks about the vaseline and his strategy for the fight. He goes even more indepth and talks about why he was working BJ's body so much.

Pride Fighter

rovert wrote: »

THE ONLY GIF THAT MATTERS:



GERMAN SUPLEX!!!!

That too:):)

ginoginelli

It does seem like bj and his camp are crying over spilt milk here. Greg jacksons not going to risk his reputation by cheating..I think BJ would gain alot more respect if he simply congratulated george on the win and moved on.

JohnMc1

I don't think Bj has the maturity for that. I used to train with Phil [I met GSP when he was there one time] so I really dislike him accusing him of blatantly cheating.

<snip>

Pride Fighter

GSP corner does this



This happens as a result

rovert

Imagine a non fan accidently clicking into this thread and just seeing Pride Fighters last post. :pac:

From Dave Meltzers news update:

An update on the Vaseline scandal involving Georges St. Pierre and his corner from Saturday night's match. As of press time, B.J. Penn's camp had not filed a complaint with the Nevada State Athletic Commission. According to Keith Kizer, Executive Director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, what happened was one of the commission inspectors saw Phil Nurse, as he rubbed Vaseline on St. Pierre's face after the first round, touch his back without wiping the Vaseline off. Several commissioners were aware as the second round went on, and were watching closely after the second round, where they saw a person they identified as Greg Jackson (most stories say it was Nurse again), do the same thing. If was between rounds two and three that the commotion took place with the commission reacting immediately and they wiped off St. Pierre's back. They also wiped off St. Pierre's back again after round three. Penn himself told an inspector on his side of the ring after round two that he thought St. Pierre was greased. Kizer said both Lorenzo Fertitta and Dana White after the match and questioned whether Nurse or Jackson should ever be allowed to corner again. White, who saw the incident between rounds two and three and was also alerted to the round one incident at some point in round two, said that he thought the guy (s) who did it, without mentioning any names, should be banned by the athletic commission from every cornering again. Kizer said it was not gobs of Vaseline on St. Pierre's back, but the back was touched after the Vaseline was rubbed on his face, and before the hands were wiped clean with a towel. Jackson told MMAweekly.com yesterday saying Nurse was doing a ritual taught to him by a "witch doctor" named Steven Friend, who has worked with St. Pierre for years. "We told our side of the story, we said we didn't mean to put any grease anywhere," said Jackson. "If we were trying to grease the back,we'd be greasing up and down. We would make it count. We wouldn't do a little tiny spot in the back. The whole thing doesn't make any sense, so they were fine with it once we gave our explanation."

Killme00

Pride Fighter wrote: »

That too:):)

This is an elbow to the back of the head.

rovert

Killme00 wrote: »

This is an elbow to the back of the head.

It wasnt aimed at the head so it wasnt illegal.

dunkamania

Stay on topic guys

The greasing incident is picking up momentum, below is an excerpt from an article from Mayhem Miller from a couple of months back. So now Serra Sherk, Milller and Penn all accusing GSP of greasing. I dont know what to make of this anymore.

This natural desire to win and innate competitiveness that most athletes in any sport have is only the tip of the iceberg. Most of the people reading this article probably are not professional athletes. At least I’m assuming that Fight! Magazine can get this to more houses than mine and Dan Henderson’s, but think about if after a fight that I lost I said, “hey that guy had a roll of quarters in his glove!” Now even if it was true, it doesn’t matter, unless the ref pulls out the stack of George Washington’s from his hand and it is broadcast in high definition on every big screen in the arena. I just sound like a whiny bitch, and he got away with the whole thing, and makes me look like an even bigger sissy, for first of all, LOSING, second of all crying foul after the fact.

This time an anonymous MEGA arena, in a mega city, in front of a mega crowd, in a mega show, for what was then mega money to me. The stakes are much higher this time, and I had done my best to prepare for this single fight, even going so far as to NOT have a wild sex party the night before the fight, so that I could improve my mental focus. After a rough first round, I met in the center for round 2 and somewhere got taken down. “No biggie, my guard is good, he won’t hurt me here, and maybe I can pull off the submission, get a “Dumbass of the Night” award or something. While locked in my tight guard, I noticed that for some reason I was have trouble keeping my opponent’s head down. I practiced shirtless with my great training partners, and never had this much trouble keeping a guy from punching me. Was this guy uber strong or something? No exactly. After a couple more stiff elbows to my grillpiece, I felt the familiar slick that I would get every day at kickboxing practice on my nose and eyes, only it was on my opponents neck, now up 2 rounds, Vaseline!

Greasy bastard, I thought. Of course I yelled to the ref, “Hey! He is greased up!” but much like anyone else watching me get pounded, he didn’t give a damn, and replied with “He’s ok!” Followed by another smash to the face. Yeah, ok for HIM, but I’m taking a beating over here and can’t hold onto the bastard.

Did I ever bitch about it afterwards? Nope. Why? What’s the point? Would it put the toothpaste back in the tube? No. As far as everyone saw, I lost the fight, fair and square. Would it have made a difference if he wasn’t greased up? Maybe, but honestly probably not. He was the better man that night, plain and simple. He bent the rules, not broke them, and when you get away with it, it isn’t called cheating.

Dragan

Wow, a lot of testimony coming out from a lot of people. Any of you active rollers feel like experimenting with how much advantage a secondary contact with vaseline might allow?

T-K-O

Penn got his ass handed to him - but this leaves a sour taste.

dunkamania

Whats interesting is that the Penn and Miller say that they would have lost anyway.

Penn had comments up on facebook saying that GSP was greased up a bit, but that he was the better fighter. Taken down now, possibly ahead of the comp-laint being filed

rovert

Sorry but I had to share this:

Nothingcompares

Dragan wrote: »

Wow, a lot of testimony coming out from a lot of people. Any of you active rollers feel like experimenting with how much advantage a secondary contact with vaseline might allow?

Speaking of conducting some UFC inspired tests was anyone else all set to get the wheelie bin out and pack it full of snow and water and maybe running around with a snorkle last night?

Derek Coleman

Hope this means we see GSP v Penn 3. Everyone loves a trilogy. And everyone loves to see BJ get battered. BJ is living in a dream land. Get some real training and don't take time off you silly billy.

cowzerp

BJ was screwed, if he could of used his rubber guard he could of defended the strikes and got a sub win, saying it did not matter is bull, otherwise why would they bother doing it?

This is bad form and i've lowered my opinion of GsP greatly after it, i noticed the guard kept slipping at the time and could not understand it as gsp was not doing anything to make it slip..

The only good to come out of this is that he wont get away with this in future, plus he's gone as boring as muck aswell..

Let Silva at him and he'll quickly be put in his place.

dave80

Killme00 wrote: »

This is an elbow to the back of the head.

he caught him with the meat of his tricep

Seifer

dave80 wrote: »

he caught him with the meat of his tricep

He cut him with it so I don't think so.

Fizman

dancor wrote: »

I thought I read in the other thread that BJ said that GSP was not slippery

He was referring to the post match party. There was no lube used basically.

All I'll say is, while I don't think the vaseline made the crucial difference, to say it made NO difference is proposterous. BJ tried runner guard and couldn't lock it down. Any amount of vaseline mixed with sweat would definitely have helped this.

Some people are so wrapped up in hating BJ Penn that they lose the part of their brain that controls rational thinking. It's quite pathetic. The video evidence is there and they'd rather go on about people "just making excuses". Had this have happened in the Taveres Gamburyan fight where people wouldn't have the same emotional interest in the fight then it would be getting a far more balanced discussion.

Smellyirishman

cowzerp wrote:

BJ was screwed, if he could of used his rubber guard he could of defended the strikes and got a sub win, saying it did not matter is bull, otherwise why would they bother doing it?

This is bad form and i've lowered my opinion of GsP greatly after it, i noticed the guard kept slipping at the time and could not understand it as gsp was not doing anything to make it slip..

OK, I'll preface this with a statement that'll probably have most of you turning away in disgust; I don't grapple.

And now, GSP said (article linked earlier) that he practiced the guard and he knew that if he held his head over BJ's then that would make BJ lose his rubber guard. Now, drawing your attention back to this post, it seems like that was exactly what GSP was doing to break the guard.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Personally I think it reflects badly on BJ for now as he is now reliant on a silly hunch that may or may not be fact in order to claim that he was robbed, where as the truth is probably a lot more straight forward than that; GSP trained your game, knew how to work against it and did so for 20minutes.

neil1984 wrote:

to say it made NO difference is proposterous.

OK if he had a bit on his fingers and rubbed his shoulder maybe it made a slight difference, but how much would it really make? Much more than just sweat alone? Unfortunately I have no idea.

Again, it wasn't BJ that first complained about it. BJ mentioned to a commissioner that he feltt slippy but that was after Round 3. The commission first noticed it after round 2. So stop saying it was BJ. Also the title of this thread is misleading as thus far BJ hasn't filed any complaint.

Smellyirishman

Deleted User wrote: »

So stop saying it was BJ. Also the title of this thread is misleading as thus far BJ hasn't filed any complaint.

I suppose that's the crux of the issue. A lot of fans arguing something (for GSP/BJ's sake) that hasn't even really been looked at and it's just being blown way out of proportion.

Dragan

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, it wasn't BJ that first complained about it. BJ mentioned to a commissioner that he feltt slippy but that was after Round 3. The commission first noticed it after round 2. So stop saying it was BJ. Also the title of this thread is misleading as thus far BJ hasn't filed any complaint.

Thread title was based purely off the story pulled from MMA News at the time. The story said they were filing, i mentioned camps, not fighters.

It's hard to try and predict stuff dude, even if that is my job!

dunkamania

Smellyirishman wrote: »

OK, I'll preface this with a statement that'll probably have most of you turning away in disgust; I don't grapple.

And now, GSP said (article linked earlier) that he practiced the guard and he knew that if he held his head over BJ's then that would make BJ lose his rubber guard.

Turns away in disgust..... and vomits a little.......;)

I dont doubt that GSP had drilled avoiding the rubber guard, but looking back over the gif's on this thread. There are numerous examples where bj's legs cant seem to find any traction on GSP back. I noticed it during the fight, but didnt really think about it at the time. In my experience of rubber guard, its not as simple as head positioning. GSP is using excellent posture, but it shouldnt be that effective against one of the best Rubber guard players in the world.

Smellyirishman

Smellyirishman wrote: »

OK, I'll preface this with a statement that'll probably have most of you turning away in disgust; I don't grapple.

No offence, but you must realise that vaseline on your upper back and shoulders would almost negate the rubber guard? You don't have to grapple o see that.

Smellyirishman wrote: »

I suppose that's the crux of the issue. A lot of fans arguing something (for GSP/BJ's sake) that hasn't even really been looked at and it's just being blown way out of proportion.

Indeed. People need to try and stay objective.

Dragan wrote: »

Thread title was based purely off the story pulled from MMA News at the time. The story said they were filing, i mentioned camps, not fighters.

It's hard to try and predict stuff dude, even if that is my job!

I know dude but the issue, if you watch Dana's video blog, was raised before either fighter left the cage. What I meant as the thread ttle was leading the arguments. They'd just called the TKO and Dana said it to Rashad and Loiseau so I had to change the thread title in the hope that we don't descend into a pointless bashing thread and hopefully get some objective opinions.

dunkamania wrote: »

GSP is using excellent posture, but it shouldnt be that effective against one of the best Rubber guard players in the world.

I noticed it at the time but thought BJ was trying to distract it to set up a scramble. Maybe I was wrong. Certainly visible on the GIFs here anyway.

Smellyirishman

Deleted User wrote: »

No offence, but you must realise that vaseline on your upper back and shoulders would almost negate the rubber guard? You don't have to grapple o see that.

A big gob of vaseline all over your back, yes.

A left over residue of vaseline, I don't know (because I have no experience of it).

I can't imagine the amount that we're talking about having much of an effect when you consider how sweaty they get, but again, I don't grapple so maybe it does almost negate the rubber guard. (can anyone say from experience?)

agardiner22

There was hardly anything on the witchdoctors fingers but if thats what all the haters want to hold onto let them