Madbull Chrono vs Double Eagle Shottie

hoplite

First off I have chrono'd my shottie using my own Xcortech Chrono and 0.2g
bb's. Single bb reading 258 fps, triple bb reading 251 fps bang on what I'd expect.

My chrono is ok it is consistent with others. I have a stock JG G36c shooting around 320 fps with 0.2g and a stock TM VSR10 G-spec shooting 300 fps also with 0.2g bb's.

Anyways I had to chrono my DE shottie with a madbull chrono onsite yesterday and got a MAD reading of 470fps with a triple shot. I was rushing to get into a game so I did not have time to set up some catridges with a single bb.

It was funny I was trying to come up with a theory that would explain it to the lad operating the chrono. "Amm ok so it shoots three bb's at a time so maybe the chrono added them up......." yup. In fairness the lads knew the shottie was ok but I left it in the bag for the rest of the day as the games were starting and I did not have a chance to load a single bb into it.

The moral of the story is to have a few catridges setup with a single bb for the purposes of chrono'ing your DE shotgun. The Xcortech chrono seems to ignore the triple shot and report back an accurate fps but you'll get raised eyebrows with a madbull chrono.

NakedDex

Yeah the Xcortechs are great like that. You can pump into them at full auto at any rate of fire and they'll give accurate readings every time, and even tell you how many you fired and at what rate. It's all I use anymore. Best chrono out there in my opinion.

Masada

Yeah you should be firing 3 shots through it,
Depending on how the shotgun internals work, using 1 bb in a gun thats designed to shoot 3 at a time could mean your firing 1 projectile with the power needed to fire 3, so theres a possibility it will be reading over the limit when firing only the 1 BB,

hoplite

Richie I find myself questioning your wisdom for the first time :-) you probably need to revert you name back to VTec

Read my post again a single bb will register about 250 fps. Three bb's at a time will also register ~ 250 fps. Three bb's in a mad bull chrono will register 470 fps!!! Its a pity I didnt get a chance to put a single bb through the madbull I'm confident it would also have been 250 fps. I can put a single bb though my Xcortech all day and get 250 fps.

cpb

Just be careful when you crono a shotgun with a Xcortech i did and the shot busted the sensors on it:(:mad: and I now have half a bb on the display panel of my Xcortech it still works but would like to compare it just to be sure.

hoplite

cpb wrote: »

Just be careful when you crono a shotgun with a Xcortech i did and the shot busted the sensors on it:(:mad: and I now have half a bb on the display panel of my Xcortech it still works but would like to compare it just to be sure.

Whoops :eek:

NakedDex

Masada wrote: »

Yeah you should be firing 3 shots through it,
Depending on how the shotgun internals work, using 1 bb in a gun thats designed to shoot 3 at a time could mean your firing 1 projectile with the power needed to fire 3, so theres a possibility it will be reading over the limit when firing only the 1 BB,

The DE shotties are clones of the TM ones. Three springs, three pistons, three hops, three barrels, so firing one bb is the same as firing three. The usual shot-to-shot variances apply the same as any other but you'd get the same reading on 3 rounds as you would on 1. Incidentally, that's why they're so hard to pump out of the box, three springs instead of the one you find in the ASG spring shotties.

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering if that shotty is just a made up one (as I've heard a few people ask what it is), it's the modelled on the new Benelli M4 Super 90, which has been adopted by the US Marines already and has been given the designation M1014. It's basically a shorter version of the M3 Super 90 with some internal improvements in the RS version. The airsoft versions only differ by the shorter barrel and collapsible stock.

cpb

hoplite wrote: »

Whoops :eek:

Thats not what I said

Busta Hyman

surely 3bbs @.2g = 1bb @ .6g therefor if you fire 1.2g bb it should fire above 250 surely

NakedDex

What? No? If you apply that logic to grenades, my 204 round grenades are capable of punching holes in tanks.

Three individual barrels with three individual power systems means three individual readings.

tonky

NakedDex wrote: »

What? No? If you apply that logic to grenades, my 204 round grenades are capable of punching holes in tanks.

Three individual barrels with three individual power systems means three individual readings.

OK, but the Airsoft device is surely over the limit then, is it not. Are you saying that three barrels each producing 1 Joule in a gun is ok? Is the total energy produced by the gun not 3 Joules ?. To stay legal, each barrel would have to be limited to 0.3J. ??
Maybe I'm misunderstanding ??
My M500 fires three bb's from 1 barrel at the just under the limit.

hoplite

I'm sorry I opened this thread. Three barrels and springer mechanisms each shooting at less than one joule is what you get in a Tokyo Marui and Double eagle shotgun. I happen to own both a TM and DE shottie and they are identical.

If I duct tape three springers together each shooting at less than one joule and shoot them at the same time am I breaking the law.......... please :rolleyes:

Mods by all means lock this thread before it gets ridiculous and misinformed.

NakedDex

The legalise says the limit per barrel is 1J per projectile leaving it. There's nothing to stop you building a device with ten barrels each firing at 1J each simultaneously. The outer barrel doesn't matter, it's the contact barrel (ie the inner one) that matters.

hoplite

Here are the exploded diagrams of the TM M3 Super90 of which the DE is an exact clone.

http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j100/cqrt/manuals/tm%20m3%20super90%20tech/

tonky

NakedDex wrote: »

The legalise says the limit per barrel is 1J per projectile leaving it. There's nothing to stop you building a device with ten barrels each firing at 1J each simultaneously. The outer barrel doesn't matter, it's the contact barrel (ie the inner one) that matters.

Thanks, Dex that's all I was asking.
I was just thinking of a crazy idea for a multi-barrel 249 or M60 support gun

NakedDex

tonky wrote: »

Thanks, Dex that's all I was asking.
I was just thinking of a crazy idea for a multi-barrel 249 or M60 support gun

No probs. It confuses a lot of people with grenades too. With nades, each socket counts as an individual barrel, same as with the shotguns individual barrels. Similarly, with your single barrel shotgun, the energy is taken from each individual round leaving, not an accumulated weight of all of them.


Also, the four barrels and gearboxes in front of me right now say I'll get one done before you!

Masada

See thats why i said in my first post, "Depending on how the shotgun internals work" .,lol
Some fire 3 BBs from the 1 firing mech, i had a feeling this one has 3 barrels but i havent striped one yet so wasnt 100% on it.
its not the first issue ive heard of with multishot guns and the madbull chrono's though.

Busta Hyman

hoplite wrote: »

I'm sorry I opened this thread.

Mods by all means lock this thread before it gets ridiculous and misinformed.

dude calm down

i honestly have no idea how springer shotties work tbh but i am interested in learning. to learn i like th discuss my understanding of how things work. i know my gun shoots at under a joule but when it double feeds the bbs come out like the gun has black lung disease. i thought that since shotties feed from shells that the all came thru the same barrell. is this incorrect.

not all of us are so u83R L337

i like to try to learn about things

hoplite

Busta Hyman wrote: »

dude calm down

i honestly have no idea how springer shotties work tbh but i am interested in learning. to learn i like th discuss my understanding of how things work. i know my gun shoots at under a joule but when it double feeds the bbs come out like the gun has black lung disease. i thought that since shotties feed from shells that the all came thru the same barrell. is this incorrect.

not all of us are so u83R L337

i like to try to learn about things

No worries I was worried that we'd drift off into a panic thread when all I wanted to do was point out that you might get a dodgy reading off the madbull chrono when the shottie is well under the joule. Hoping a boffin might explain why the madbull chrono would do that as well.

Wonder If I can get it to shoot snow?

Busta Hyman

k so to further my ignorance

do shotguns have multiple barrels or multiple bbs in one barrel

Puding

k so to further my ignorance

do shotguns have multiple barrels or multiple bbs in one barrel

depends on the shootgun you can get both systems

tonyj_mc

The TM ones have three seperate barells and three seperate mechanisms, some of the other one like the mossberg 500 eirsoft had a while ago fire three bbs from one barrel

johnboysligo

hoplite wrote: »

Anyways I had to chrono my DE shottie with a madbull chrono onsite yesterday and got a MAD reading of 470fps with a triple shot.

you know lighting conditions can effect cronograph readings.
A cronograph is basically timing device measuring the time it takes for a object of a given weight to trip the first sensor then the second sensor those sensors are usually just light sensitve triggers that pick up on the light reflected as the bb as it passes though (one of the reasons you shouldnt crono with black bbs) You can get laser cronographs aswell but ive no idea what are inside the madbull cronographs.

i know a guy who got his aug crono'ed at gtac came in at something like 370fps with .20g. He took it back to where he bought it and had it crono'ed came in under 1j.

heres a bit of cronograph troubleshooting info i found via google.

info wrote:

Common Causes of Chronograph Problems

1) Too Close or Too Far from the first sensor
carefully read any instuctions that came with your cronograph to find the optiimum distance that your muzzle should be to ensure accurate and reliable data

2) Light Conditions

Low Light - If used in low light look on the ground to see if you are casting a shadow. If there are no shadows on the ground there may not be a bullet shadow for the chronograph to detect. If shadows are faint and the sky is light colored, removing the screen tops will often allow the chronograph to work. You must always shoot parallel with the sensor bracket but when shooting north/south with the sun low on the horizon, point the back of the cronograph towards the nearest light.

3) Sensors Not Held Stable
cronographing in your hand isnt a good idea your hand no matter how hard you try is not going to stay still long enough for the bb to travel in a perfectly straight line or you might even end up moving the cronograph closer to yourself mid fire after the first sensor has been tripped thus tripping the second sensor a fraction quicker
hint: find a stable platform to cronograph from (some people screw their cronographs to a workbench or lock them in a vice).