Chimp for sale

SCI

bikki wrote: »

Your only specualting what cage he has or what sort of care he is giving them.

And Taring every body with one brush based on your experiances isnt very fair and closed minded.

For all the horror storys you here about abused animals theres countless others out there who give there pets the very best of care.

Well said.I still stand by what I said. If someones has the knowledge and the resources,what's the problem?

SCI

Senor Willy wrote: »

Are people really thinking about buying a Chimp. This is a fewking disgrace. Chimpanzees are endangered in the wild.
The people that buy them are promoting the illegal trade in trapping and selling them. Most of the baby Chimps you see for sale have been taken after their mothers had been slaughtered.
Even ignoring all the ethical issues an Adult Chimp cannot be kept as a pet. There almost 5 times stronger than an adult man, are very tempermental and can easily pull off an arm.
They revert to their wild stage very easily. They are also very sociable animals and need other Chimps for company.

All the Chimps you see in movies are sub adult. Once they become adult you are asking for trouble.

Chimpanzees are endangered in the wild,surely that's more of a reason for private keepers to keep and breed them. Any Chimp for sale in Ireland would be a captive bred animal and have paperwork to support this,if it doesn't expect a long term in jail. When people talk about a "pet" do you mean holding it's hand though the park!! This is not what I mean when I say keeping them was knowledge and all the resources.

SCI

cavedave wrote: »

So would this prevent someone owning a hominid as a pet?



There is a huge difference between an ape and a much smaller primate. I agree that primates are not suitable for pet shops. But I think apes should not be pets at all. The difference between a human and a chimp is tiny compared to that between a chimp and a Baboon.


You cannot keep a human as a pet. Humans have rights as sentient beings not to be owned as property. Other less intelligent animlas get rights as well generally roughly equivelant to their intelliegence. We don't believe dogs should be treated similarly to fish for example. Chimps who have tool use and basic language abilities I believe are too intelligent to be kept as pets.

At no point didn't I mention they should be kept as pets my friend,I said I
had no problem with someone keeping them. There's a difference.

cavedave

SCI
I still stand by what I said. If someones has the knowledge and the resources,what's the problem?

On the available evidence there is no test in Ireland to see if someone has the knowledge and resources.

A point people seem to be missing is how like us chimps are.


They are our closest relative

They are capable of self awarness, sign language,prostitution, tool usage, altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience, grief, sensitivity,face-to-face genital sex, tongue kissing, and oral sex. lesbianism, contextual syntax and many more behaviurs most people regard as soley human.

Chimps "are a people. Non-human, but definitely persons"

SCI

On the available evidence there is no test in Ireland to see if someone has the knowledge and resources.

What about a degree :rolleyes: Are you saying zoo's shouldn't have them?

cavedave

A degree does not prove you have resources. You do not currently need a degree to be allowed keep a chimp (afaik).

Cal

There are no rules on having kids in Ireland. It is not necessary do a course on how to look after them either, you can just walk out of the hospital a day after having them. They can embarass the hell out of you with some of the tantrums they throw & they can grow up to be killers.

We should change the law.:rolleyes:

Cal.

Bugnut

Pets to have in a lifetime checklist

1. Tadpole
2. Stickleback
3. Goldfish
4. Terapin
5. Budgie
6. Kitten
7. Small Dog
8. Big Dog
9. Pony or Horse
10. Chimp or Gorrilla
11. Lion or Tiger
12. Elephant or Rhino

Been stuck on 9 for a while now, time to do up the spare room and move onto 10.

Thanks for the info.

SCI

Cal wrote: »

There are no rules on having kids in Ireland. It is not necessary do a course on how to look after them either, you can just walk out of the hospital a day after having them. They can embarass the hell out of you with some of the tantrums they throw & they can grow up to be killers.

We should change the law.:rolleyes:

Cal.

Very good point,same could be said for most pets.I guess there's just some
people that want to live in a nanny state.

cavedave

Cal There are no rules on having kids in Ireland. It is not necessary do a course on how to look after them either, you can just walk out of the hospital a day after having them. They can embarass the hell out of you with some of the tantrums they throw & they can grow up to be killers.

We should change the law.

It is true that there are inadequate protections on children in Ireland. I do not believe animal and child welfare are in a zero sum conflict though. Children do have social workers, teachers, parish priests, community care nurses and others who are supposed to investigate maltreatment.

As humans we have a propensity to look after our genetic kin. When a child is placed with a family it is not related to greater controls exist (and are probably necessary).

SCI

Very good point,same could be said for most pets.I guess there's just some
people that want to live in a nanny state.

I'm sure there are. I am not one of them and believe in a night watchman state

Senor Willy

SCI wrote: »

Chimpanzees are endangered in the wild,surely that's more of a reason for private keepers to keep and breed them. Any Chimp for sale in Ireland would be a captive bred animal and have paperwork to support this,if it doesn't expect a long term in jail.

That just giving poachers a licence to kill parent Chimps and export their
young to assholes everywhere.

They are sociable animals. They live in large family groups.
They are extremely intelligent which means they need stimuli or they will become bored and depressed.
The only logical reason to keep chimps would to be part of an International breed and release program.

Surely to God we are a civilised country and can see that this is morally
and ethically wrong.

sorella

We work in animal rescue in Canada and elsewhere; we have contacted the ISPCA here and the SPCA there and this will be known there now. The email address was Canadian, which we found odd.

Our man in Havana

Animals in the EU zone must be captive bred - so responsible owners & in the case of the larger apes I am really talking about specialist keepers & zoos - in no way would I say the average Joe should keep exotics. I spent over 2 years researching primates before I got my marmosets & now have a tamrin.

The sad fact is chimps are considered a bush meat for very hungry people - there are very few safe places left in the wild for them - whilst I think the likes of Michael Jackson & his "bubbles" has not helped their plight as many others now think they can own a cute chimp & he/she will be a loving companion without realising that they get very big & very strong - I do believe we need more specialised keepers to breed these animals (as well as all of the endangered species)

It is wrong for the average Joe to own these magnificent animals. The ads we are seeing for chimps for under €500 are a SCAM! I think realistically a chimp would be over £5k per animal. What will happen is you will be asked to pay a small deposit - & you will never see any animal in return for your cash. Primates are very hard to find & real breeders are hard to find & rightly so!

What I am totally against are the people who buy any primate & dress them up! Or make them wear diapers! They are & always will be wild animals - My Jack will & does often bite & he is not sexually mature yet! He has sharp teeth & is not suitable for an average home!

bikki

sorella wrote: »

We work in animal rescue in Canada and elsewhere; we have contacted the ISPCA here and the SPCA there and this will be known there now. The email address was Canadian, which we found odd.

Because its a Scam!

Rory123

Bond-007 wrote: »

My Jack will & does often bite & he is not sexually mature yet! He has sharp teeth & is not suitable for an average home!

Hi Bond-007 I don't want to get involved in this thread as it seems to be going around in circles a bit and I don't feel strongly enough to comment on it. Just wondering purely out of interest what species your Jack is? What other primates do you keep, if any?

lightening

Bond-007 wrote: »

What I am totally against are the people who buy any primate & dress them up!

Ah, the little bonnets are nice on the girl ones!!

sorry.

sorella

The ISPCA are being very cagey about it..But someone did say that there is a primate keeper in Donegal and that ad says Carndonagh.. maybe in a few weeks we will ask to drop in on him......

bikki wrote: »

Because its a Scam!

bikki

sorella wrote: »

The ISPCA are being very cagey about it..But someone did say that there is a primate keeper in Donegal and that ad says Carndonagh.. maybe in a few weeks we will ask to drop in on him......

Yes and the email Address is Canadian, theres also other ads there using the same picture and different address's.

Open your eyes. Also if you showd up on my door step asking to see my pets id have you arrested for trespassing.

sorella

Really? Well you could try.....

bikki wrote: »

Yes and the email Address is Canadian, theres also other ads there using the same picture and different address's.

Open your eyes. Also if you showd up on my door step asking to see my pets id have you arrested for trespassing.

Our man in Havana

Trespassing is not a criminal offence therefore you cannot be arrested for it unless there are other factors such as violence. Also a person has an implied right to knock on your door. Of course you don't have to answer it.

Our man in Havana

sorella wrote: »

The ISPCA are being very cagey about it..But someone did say that there is a primate keeper in Donegal and that ad says Carndonagh.. maybe in a few weeks we will ask to drop in on him......

Under what powers? Does the ISPCA have statutory powers of entry to nose around.

I happen to know this chap and he knows alot about primates. He offers advice to estabhlished keepers. So I think you trip will be wasted.

cos!!

sorella its a scam, everyone here knows that now.no need to get the ispca involved or the canadian spca, its just going to waste time, they dont answer to a lot of real cruelty cases already as they dont have the resources, no point pestering them to follow some scam?

Our man in Havana

Indeed all these chimps for sale are scams. The monkeys don't exist.There is no one selling monkeys. It is a scam. The bogus seller simply uses images taken from google to scam their victims. End of discussion.

cavedave

There is no one selling monkeys. It is a scam. The bogus seller simply uses images taken from google to scam their victims. End of discussion.

There have been many people on this thread talking about people selling monkeys and where you can get them. There are people selling monkeys.

This does appear to be a scam

That this one case is a scam is not the end of the discussion.

Is this legal?

If so, how? Surely owning another hominid is not something someone who is not a professional should be doing (or at the very least some sort of supervision is needed).

That you can own a chimp as a pet is the topic of the discussion.

cos!!

all the chimps advertised for sale on these irish websites are scams. you could own a chimp in theory but your not going to get one for the prices in the adds!they are advertised that cheap to get peoples attension , they think they look cute or whatever, send their money off as a deposit and never see their money again or hear anything back. the monkeys for sale that have been talked about are marmosets.

Our man in Havana

cos!! wrote: »

all the chimps advertised for sale on these irish websites are scams. you could own a chimp in theory but your not going to get one for the prices in the adds!they are advertised that cheap to get peoples attension , they think they look cute or whatever, send their money off as a deposit and never see their money again or hear anything back. the monkeys for sale that have been talked about are marmosets.

Correct.

Our man in Havana

Rory123 wrote: »

Hi Bond-007 I don't want to get involved in this thread as it seems to be going around in circles a bit and I don't feel strongly enough to comment on it. Just wondering purely out of interest what species your Jack is? What other primates do you keep, if any?

Jack is a red bellied tamarin - he is around 8 months old now & was hand reared when he was rejected by his mum. Another person I know has Jacks brother. I am searching for a mate for Jack - I would not have gotten Jack had he been a wild parent reared animal - Jack has a lot of human companionship all day every day & is currently housed inside - when his mate is located he will move into a very large aviary in the garden.

I used to keep marmosets. I do have another specialised animals such as coatimundis & a skunk called Taz.

sorella

If so then fine. We work in animal rescue, you see, so we like to keep an eye on these things. And we know how stressed the ISPCA is.

And we are near Carndonagh.

Nothing for anyone here to get stressed about at all, at all.

cos!! wrote: »

sorella its a scam, everyone here knows that now.no need to get the ispca involved or the canadian spca, its just going to waste time, they dont answer to a lot of real cruelty cases already as they dont have the resources, no point pestering them to follow some scam?

ISPCA Watch

We represent the rights of private people to keep primates and other exotic animals in Ireland. We are very weary of organisations such as the ISPCA and other such non-governmental charities that seek to curtail and interfere with our member’s lawful activities.

Our goal is to protect these private individuals from unlawful entry and interference from busybodies such as the ISPCA and other "SPCAS", rescues and general nosey parkers. We have advised our members not to co-operate with these organisations unless they are with Gardaí with an appropriate search warrant.

Many of our members have taken sensible precautions to prevent theft and unlawful entry onto their properties. Our members are doing nothing illegal and would appreciate the same rights to privacy as any other law-abiding citizen of this state. If such an organisation such as the ISPCA seeks to visit a member’s property they should seek permission prior to arriving. In most cases permission will be denied.

I trust our position is clear.

Our man in Havana

sorella wrote: »

If so then fine. We work in animal rescue, you see, so we like to keep an eye on these things. And we know how stressed the ISPCA is.

And we are near Carndonagh.

Nothing for anyone here to get stressed about at all, at all.

If you do work in rescue & work closely with the ISPCA you would know that only Gardai have the power with a warrant to enter some ones property. As I have stated before in this post - the primates in the ads are FICTIONAL! Idiots send money for NOTHING! That is why its a SCAM! 99.999999% of primates advertised online are not real! Sensible primate & exotic keepers - keep under the radar because of meddlers & the ALF! It is not easy or cheap for people to locate & buy exotics! If I want I can own ANYTHING money & cites certification are the only barriers in my way - I could have bought a liger - but its was a tad too expensive & my garden is way too small......

ISPCA Watch wrote: »

We represent the rights of private people to keep primates and other exotic animals in Ireland. We are very weary of organisations such as the ISPCA and other such non-governmental charities that seek to curtail and interfere with our member’s lawful activities.

Our goal is to protect these private individuals from unlawful entry and interference from busybodies such as the ISPCA and other "SPCAS", rescues and general nosey parkers. We have advised our members not to co-operate with these organisations unless they are with Gardaí with an appropriate search warrant.

Many of our members have taken sensible precautions to prevent theft and unlawful entry onto their properties. Our members are doing nothing illegal and would appreciate the same rights to privacy as any other law-abiding citizen of this state. If such an organisation such as the ISPCA seeks to visit a member’s property they should seek permission prior to arriving. In most cases permission will be denied.

I trust our position is clear.

You have made your position clear & have basically been saying what I have been saying. Gardai & warrants needed before you can barge into anyone property. Now the ISPCA & other charities can ASK NICELY & folks MAY allow them permission to see their collection.