Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

DDC1990

The two Kerry matches yesterday left me thoroughly unsatisfied.

I've mentioned the Minor game in the Kerry v Cavan thread. Nothing short of a disgrace. How Jack Savage got booked after being jumped by his man (who was on a yellow card) baffles me. That free led to Tyrone getting a point down the other end, and let the Tyrone players know they could get away with just about anything.

The Senior game wasn't helped by the conditions. A lot of our slick footpassing, which would bounce up nicely on a dry day skidded away from players and made for a scrappy game. We switched off once we went 8-9 points up and let Cavan come at us. Hopefully in an All Ireland Semi Final against Dublin, we won't relent. We're still waiting to see a solid 70 minutes out of this team, something we haven't seen since the Tyrone game last year.

Dublin will only have half a game to analyse us on, which is good. I still think they will be too strong, and to be honest we could be in for one of the greatest All Ireland Finals in years in a Mayo v Dublin final. Two teams right at their peak. Would be an enthralling clash!
Won't complain if we're there though! :P

Archer3083

I can't see Kerry beating Dublin in the semi-final. I know Fitzmaurice is doing a very good job but Kerry have been very poor in the second half against Cork in the Munster final and against Cavan yesterday. Alot has changed since Kerry met Dublin in the final in 2011. I think it's obvious that Dublin have gotten stronger and Kerry has more or less remained the same. It's hard to see Galvin, T Ó Sé, M Ó Sé, Donnaghy being better now than they were 2 years ago

Poor_old_gill

DDC1990 wrote: »

The two Kerry matches yesterday left me thoroughly unsatisfied.

I've mentioned the Minor game in the Kerry v Cavan thread. Nothing short of a disgrace. How Jack Savage got booked after being jumped by his man (who was on a yellow card) baffles me. That free led to Tyrone getting a point down the other end, and let the Tyrone players know they could get away with just about anything.

The Senior game wasn't helped by the conditions. A lot of our slick footpassing, which would bounce up nicely on a dry day skidded away from players and made for a scrappy game. We switched off once we went 8-9 points up and let Cavan come at us. Hopefully in an All Ireland Semi Final against Dublin, we won't relent. We're still waiting to see a solid 70 minutes out of this team, something we haven't seen since the Tyrone game last year.

Dublin will only have half a game to analyse us on, which is good. I still think they will be too strong, and to be honest we could be in for one of the greatest All Ireland Finals in years in a Mayo v Dublin final. Two teams right at their peak. Would be an enthralling clash!
Won't complain if we're there though! :P

The minor game just left me completely disillusioned- I have a copy of the game coming my way so will send it onto you if you want to have a second look.

The ref was out of depth yesterday- Tyrone saw from early on that they could get away with stuff so took complete advantage

Kerrydude1981

homerjay2005 wrote: »

job done, alot to work on, nobody will give us a chance against Dublin.

ideal.

Spot on,its going to be all talk about a Mayo Dublin final,while ourselves and our buddies from Tyrone wait in the long grass

homerjay2005

at the way all the talk is going today, you'd think we shouldnt even bother turning up against Dublin.

never seen so much negativity and doom after what was, a routine win. we were poor, but bigger days lie ahead and we can pretty much put out 15 men against Dublin, who have experience of winning big games.

we are not dead yet.

Archer3083

Talk of Kerry and Tyrone waiting in the long grass is fanciful. Tyrone haven't beaten a top team since they won their last All Ireland in 08. Cork beat them in 09, Dublin in 10 and 11 and Kerry in 12. Who have they beaten this year of any worth? Kildare, Meath and Monaghan are not top teams. Kerry will be beaten by Dublin, the only question is by how much

Rory1

There was too much criticism of Kerry yesterday. They were never going to lose the game. They started very well. OK - they didnt finnish it off but the aim was just to win. Remember how bad Mayo were against London and then they performed like yesterday against Donegal. I still think Kerry can turn it on.

Amprodude

I would never write Kerry off, im too wise for that but the only way i can see Kerry winning this one is that Dublin dont turn up on the day and they have a habit of doing that. If they do turn up then whatever Kerry do to stop them may not be enough. Should be interesting but it will be a close match i think.

dd972

Ideal scenario is to pull off a big performance against the Dubs like we did a few years ago then meet Mayo who'll hopefully melt in the final.

As much as Tyrone have declined, they'd be like 15 Chuck Norris's on steroids if they come up against us in the final, on a similar note I've always had my suspicions about them and how they manage to play with such intensity for 70 minutes.

Amprodude

dd972 wrote: »

Ideal scenario is to pull off a big performance against the Dubs like we did a few years ago then meet Mayo who'll hopefully melt in the final.

As much as Tyrone have declined, they'd be like 15 Chuck Norris's on steroids if they come up against us in the final, on a similar note I've always had my suspicions about them and how they manage to play with such intensity for 70 minutes.

I reckon Dubs will be prepared this time around and will be expecting the 2009 performance from Kerry.

aveytare

dd972 wrote: »

Ideal scenario is to pull off a big performance against the Dubs like we did a few years ago then meet Mayo who'll hopefully melt in the final.

As much as Tyrone have declined, they'd be like 15 Chuck Norris's on steroids if they come up against us in the final, on a similar note I've always had my suspicions about them and how they manage to play with such intensity for 70 minutes.

That is total unsubstantiated horse****. Seriously, cop on. If anything Tyrone's physical conditioning's not as impressive as Mayo/Donegal's etc. Don't even know why I'm trying to reason with this nonsense.

edit:forgot how to spell

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

at the way all the talk is going today, you'd think we shouldnt even bother turning up against Dublin.

never seen so much negativity and doom after what was, a routine win. we were poor, but bigger days lie ahead and we can pretty much put out 15 men against Dublin, who have experience of winning big games.

we are not dead yet.

I'm really not sure where the optimism of Kerry being able to lift their game to beat an in form Dublin is coming from.

They are an old and tired team, out of gas and out of ideas. They have failed to impress in their last three meaningful games, being pegged back v Tyrone in the league, v Cork in the Munster final and putting in a lacklustre display v Cavan the other day.

I think it's wishful thinking that they are just somehow going through the motions and waiting in the long grass to pounce on Dublin like the 2009 team did.
There is a huge difference between 2009 and 2013.

Archer3083

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm really not sure where the optimism of Kerry being able to lift their game to beat an in form Dublin is coming from.

They are an old and tired team, out of gas and out of ideas. They have failed to impress in their last three meaningful games, being pegged back v Tyrone in the league, v Cork in the Munster final and putting in a lacklustre display v Cavan the other day.

I think it's wishful thinking that they are just somehow going through the motions and waiting in the long grass to pounce on Dublin like the 2009 team did.
There is a huge difference between 2009 and 2013.

Great post

I completely agree. All the optimism in Kerry seems to be centred around this idea that the Kingdom can pull a performance out of thin air. Cork are not a terrible team by any stretch of the imagination but Dublin seriously outplayed Cork. Kerry were very nearly beaten by that same Cork team after having another woeful second half in the Munster final. Kerry have done nothing to suggest this year that they can win the All-Ireland

keane2097

Kerry are a touch better than Cork. Dublin are a level above either. Cork caused Dublin pretty major problems in certain areas and pretty much collapsed in others. Dublin beat Cork by five points.

It is far from beyond the realms of possibility that Kerry could play slightly better than they have done so far this season, exploit the gaping holes in the Dublin full back line and not get utterly wiped out at midfield. If they were to do any of those things you'd think there was a decent chance we'd lose by less than five points. You're essentially in "kick of a ball" territory.

Dublin are definitely better than Kerry, definitely justified favourites, but the nature of football is that even heavy favourites only win by 5/6pts a lot of the time. It's a game of very fine margins.

Kerry this year are no farther behind Dublin that Dublin were behind Kerry in 2011. We'll probably lose but it's not like we have no chance, get a grip.

DDC1990

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm really not sure where the optimism of Kerry being able to lift their game to beat an in form Dublin is coming from.

They are an old and tired team, out of gas and out of ideas. They have failed to impress in their last three meaningful games, being pegged back v Tyrone in the league, v Cork in the Munster final and putting in a lacklustre display v Cavan the other day.

I think it's wishful thinking that they are just somehow going through the motions and waiting in the long grass to pounce on Dublin like the 2009 team did.
There is a huge difference between 2009 and 2013.

My optimism that we can pull out a big performance actually comes from a number of places.

1) The league; we were all but relegated in the league after losing to Donegal. We pulled out 3 big wins in a row to stay up. When the chips were down we stepped it up and while we got lucky, we did whatever we could on our side of things to stay up, including beating Tyrone away on the last day of the league.

2) Cian O'Neill. He knows how its done. He's been to an All Ireland Final the last 3/4 years in a row. He knows how to get teams to peak towards the end of the championship. We will be flying fit by September 1st.

3) Our First half against Tyrone in the league/Cork in the Munster final/Cavan last week. We Blitzed these teams. Never mind the fact that we let them come back, all these teams were effectively dead at half time. We totally changed our tactics after half time, going ultra defensive and trying to protect the lead. Nobody has questioned this tactic publicly. What will happen if we decide to press on after half time, and keep playing the way we were up to that point?

4) Substitutions. We've played around with substitutions all year. Trying different guys in different positions etc. In the Munster final we left guys on far longer then necessary, and it nearly cost us. Against Cavan we used 3 guys who won't play for the rest of the championship and were just given a run. For an All Ireland Semi-Final when the chips are down, the calls are going to be made quicker, and the right players are going to come on and make an impact. Mark Griffin, Jonathan Lyne, Kieran Donaghy, Eoin Brosnan, Aidan O'Mahoney, Bryan Sheehan, David Moran all have attributes that in a clutch game could make a difference no matter where we are struggling.

5)The unknown. Dublin have half a game against Tyrone and half a game against Cork to analyse in terms of our tactics for the Semi-Finals. you can throw out all the other game footage. No way will we play the way we played against Tipp/Waterford/Cavan/The rest of the league, against Dublin. It will be extremely hard to plan against the Kerry attack.

Do I think we'll win? No, but it won't be a rout.

Do I think we'll put in a hell of a performance and give the Dubs a right rattle? Yes. It will come down to the wire, but their pace from Midfield and the Halfbacks will be our undoing, not our age, our lack of idea's or any other bullshít that is being spouted. It will be because Dublin in 2013 are a better team then Kerry in 2013.

Archer3083

DDC1990 wrote: »

My optimism that we can pull out a big performance actually comes from a number of places.

1) The league; we were all but relegated in the league after losing to Donegal. We pulled out 3 big wins in a row to stay up. When the chips were down we stepped it up and while we got lucky, we did whatever we could on our side of things to stay up, including beating Tyrone away on the last day of the league.

2) Cian O'Neill. He knows how its done. He's been to an All Ireland Final the last 3/4 years in a row. He knows how to get teams to peak towards the end of the championship. We will be flying fit by September 1st.

3) Our First half against Tyrone in the league/Cork in the Munster final/Cavan last week. We Blitzed these teams. Never mind the fact that we let them come back, all these teams were effectively dead at half time. We totally changed our tactics after half time, going ultra defensive and trying to protect the lead. Nobody has questioned this tactic publicly. What will happen if we decide to press on after half time, and keep playing the way we were up to that point?

4) Substitutions. We've played around with substitutions all year. Trying different guys in different positions etc. In the Munster final we left guys on far longer then necessary, and it nearly cost us. Against Cavan we used 3 guys who won't play for the rest of the championship and were just given a run. For an All Ireland Semi-Final when the chips are down, the calls are going to be made quicker, and the right players are going to come on and make an impact. Mark Griffin, Jonathan Lyne, Kieran Donaghy, Eoin Brosnan, Aidan O'Mahoney, Bryan Sheehan, David Moran all have attributes that in a clutch game could make a difference no matter where we are struggling.

5)The unknown. Dublin have half a game against Tyrone and half a game against Cork to analyse in terms of our tactics for the Semi-Finals. you can throw out all the other game footage. No way will we play the way we played against Tipp/Waterford/Cavan/The rest of the league, against Dublin. It will be extremely hard to plan against the Kerry attack.

Do I think we'll win? No, but it won't be a rout.

Do I think we'll put in a hell of a performance and give the Dubs a right rattle? Yes. It will come down to the wire, but their pace from Midfield and the Halfbacks will be our undoing, not our age, our lack of idea's or any other bullshít that is being spouted. It will be because Dublin in 2013 are a better team then Kerry in 2013.

You put in a convincing why Kerry will be competitive against Dublin. But your analysis concludes that Dublin will win! If Kerry can't do it this year, they will have no hope over the next 3-5 years when the likes of Galvin, Brosnan, O' Mahony and the two Ó Sés retire. Cooper, Dec O'Sullivan and Donnaghy are all the wrong side of 30 too. Not a bright future for the Kingdom. I think Fitzmaurice got a poison chalice!

homerjay2005

Archer3083 wrote: »

. All the optimism in Kerry

would love to see this optimism your talking about as all i here at the moment is Dublin are already in the final.

Archer3083

I think most would agree that it looks like a Mayo v Dublin final unless something drastic happens. To be fair, both teams have been very impressive this year!

Amprodude

keane2097 wrote: »

Kerry are a touch better than Cork. Dublin are a level above either. Cork caused Dublin pretty major problems in certain areas and pretty much collapsed in others. Dublin beat Cork by five points.

It is far from beyond the realms of possibility that Kerry could play slightly better than they have done so far this season, exploit the gaping holes in the Dublin full back line and not get utterly wiped out at midfield. If they were to do any of those things you'd think there was a decent chance we'd lose by less than five points. You're essentially in "kick of a ball" territory.

Dublin are definitely better than Kerry, definitely justified favourites, but the nature of football is that even heavy favourites only win by 5/6pts a lot of the time. It's a game of very fine margins.

Kerry this year are no farther behind Dublin that Dublin were behind Kerry in 2011. We'll probably lose but it's not like we have no chance, get a grip.

Good post. I for one wont write off Kerry. They will have nothing to lose and this is when they are at their most dangerous. This will be a very tight game and Dublin will not run through Kerry as easily as Cork. They will analyse this guaranteed. Every game is different. If Dublin perform they should win but if they dont then Kerry have a chance.

Archer3083

I think Dublin will find it easier to cut Kerry up. The two Ó Sés and O'Mahony are all well over 30. McCaffrey and McCarthy will play havoc with those quick incisive runs

Amprodude

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think most would agree that it looks like a Mayo v Dublin final unless something drastic happens. To be fair, both teams have been very impressive this year!

It doesnt always go like that.

Archer3083

That's true. But you'd have to agree that's the way it looks right now. Even the most seasoned analysts are all playing it safe and going for Mayo v Dublin final. It would be a great game. I think we'd all cheer for Mayo against the Dubs

xxyyzz

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think Dublin will find it easier to cut Kerry up. The two Ó Sés and O'Mahony are all well over 30. McCaffrey and McCarthy will play havoc with those quick incisive runs

I'd imagine the tactic will be to stop his supply at source rather than let lads try to match him for pace in the same way that the Dubs will not let Darren O'Sullivan run at them with a bit of space. Quick players aren't a new phenomenon.

quad_red

DDC1990 wrote: »

3) Our First half against Tyrone in the league/Cork in the Munster final/Cavan last week. We Blitzed these teams. Never mind the fact that we let them come back, all these teams were effectively dead at half time. We totally changed our tactics after half time, going ultra defensive and trying to protect the lead. Nobody has questioned this tactic publicly. What will happen if we decide to press on after half time, and keep playing the way we were up to that point?

The tactic failed abysmally. In these patches Kerry leaked allot of scores, scored almost nothing and did not appear in control of what was going on.

However bad it looks, if it was effective then you could see why it was being done. But Kerry don't have the mentality, the experience or the tackling ability in defence to make it work.

When it kicks in Kerry stop scoring and start giving away piles of free kicks.

I can just see Cluxton pinging them over, ping ping ping.

Archer3083

xxyyzz wrote: »

I'd imagine the tactic will be to stop his supply at source rather than let lads try to match him for pace in the same way that the Dubs will not let Darren O'Sullivan run at them with a bit of space. Quick players aren't a new phenomenon.

Quick players aren't new but Dublin have gathered alot of them together into their team this year. It's not just their wing backs, Kilkenny, Mannion, Brogan, Connolly, Flynn and McMannimon are all very mobile men and have serious pace. I'd say Kerry might try to implement their blanket defense like they did against Cavan in the second half. The Sunday game highlighted this tactic very well showing Kerry getting big numbers behind the ball.

I think myself Kerry have a chance if they hit Dublin very early on and maybe nick a goal or two. A performance similar to the first half against Cork will be needed, but it's hard to see that Kerry defense keeping out goals against Dublin

DDC1990

My point exactly.

In no game this year has the First Half tactic been repeated in the second half. Player are told to withdraw and make do with what we have, something we are not used to doing, and it hasn't worked.

What I'm saying is that against Dublin, they will be told to keep the hammer down, to go for the kill to keep playing the quick footbal. To keep piling forward and not to withdraw. Only then will you see if Kerry have the fitness and the sense of adventure to beat a really good Dublin team.

Instead of playing good football for 35 minutes and then holding on, if they play football for 50/60/70 minutes we could beat Dublin. whether we are fit enough to do that is a totally different story.

Archer3083

DDC1990 wrote: »

My point exactly.

In no game this year has the First Half tactic been repeated in the second half. Player are told to withdraw and make do with what we have, something we are not used to doing, and it hasn't worked.

What I'm saying is that against Dublin, they will be told to keep the hammer down, to go for the kill to keep playing the quick footbal. To keep piling forward and not to withdraw. Only then will you see if Kerry have the fitness and the sense of adventure to beat a really good Dublin team.

Instead of playing good football for 35 minutes and then holding on, if they play football for 50/60/70 minutes we could beat Dublin. whether we are fit enough to do that is a totally different story.

I accept that that is the only way to beat Dublin. Hit them early on for a lot of scores, goals if possible and test their resolve. Afterall we haven't seen this Dublin team come from behind or be tested in real adversity but I'd find it hard to believe that Kerry have the legs for that level of intensity. Also, it would be very strange if Kerry worked on their defensive tactics all year only to toss them to one side now. Having said that, the opposition always dictate tactics and the defensive strategy was probably developed for Donegal in a possible final

Stoner

aveytare wrote: »

That is total unsubstantiated horse****. Seriously, cop on. If anything Tyrone's physical conditioning's not as impressive as Mayo/Donegal's etc. Don't even know why I'm trying to reason with this nonsense.
Iy
edit:forgot how to spell

I agree in fact in 2010 when Dublin beat them they were well off the pace, much the same the next year, even in the league final this year they faded towards the end and it ultimately cost them the game.

kerryjack

up in Dublin the weekend they still fear kerry both mayo and dublin, talking to a few mayo supporters they want kerry out the next day because kerry have inflicted so much pain on them ,Mayo can beat Tyrone and dublin but they dont want Kerry in the final. Can mayo keep at that peek over the next 8 weeks , and are kerry not fully cooked yet remember 2009 longford should have beaten us above in longford i was there that day, and we went on to hammer a good dublin team in croke park a month later.

Archer3083

kerryjack wrote: »

up in Dublin the weekend they still fear kerry both mayo and dublin, talking to a few mayo supporters they want kerry out the next day because kerry have inflicted so much pain on them ,Mayo can beat Tyrone and dublin but they dont want Kerry in the final. Can mayo keep at that peek over the next 8 weeks , and are kerry not fully cooked yet remember 2009 longford should have beaten us above in longford i was there that day, and we went on to hammer a good dublin team in croke park a month later.

I think that's old fashioned talk that Mayo don't want Kerry in a final. This is a very different team under James Horan. They have a steel that wasn't present in other Mayo teams, and they have Donie Buckley this year. He knows well how to beat Kerry. At this stage, I don't think Mayo care who they meet in a final