Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Just An Opinion

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think that's old fashioned talk that Mayo don't want Kerry in a final. This is a very different team under James Horan. They have a steel that wasn't present in other Mayo teams, and they have Donie Buckley this year. He knows well how to beat Kerry. At this stage, I don't think Mayo care who they meet in a final

No I'm sure their immediate concern is actually getting to the final first!

Archer3083

Just An Opinion wrote: »

No I'm sure their immediate concern is actually getting to the final first!

I think in modern coaching the focus is always on the next game. And to be fair to Mayo they only have control over their semi-final clash with Tyrone. They have no control over who they meet in a final

Just An Opinion

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think in modern coaching the focus is always on the next game. And to be fair to Mayo they only have control over their semi-final clash with Tyrone. They have no control over who they meet in a final

That's kind of my point, final talk is irrelevant until they negotiate the semi-final first. As impressive as they look I don't see Tyrone a forgone conclusion to them!

Archer3083

Just An Opinion wrote: »

That's kind of my point, final talk is irrelevant until they negotiate the semi-final first. As impressive as they look I don't see Tyrone a forgone conclusion to them!

I honestly think Tyrone are the weakest of the four semi-final teams. I know they got to a league final and pushed Dublin close but Dublin were not at full tilt in that game. Also, Tyrone have had the easiest path to the semi-final stage. I think Cork would have beaten Monaghan or Tyrone. Also, Tyrone have not been the team they were in 08. I just think Mayo and Dublin are so far ahead of everyone this year. Hunger is unreal in that team

kerryjack

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think that's old fashioned talk that Mayo don't want Kerry in a final. This is a very different team under James Horan. They have a steel that wasn't present in other Mayo teams, and they have Donie Buckley this year. He knows well how to beat Kerry. At this stage, I don't think Mayo care who they meet in a final

Mayo look good, but we have seen this before from them,they can flop on the big day, like last years final when they did not turn up for the first 10 min of final, I like mayo I like there brand of football I like the people but until there win sam I wont trust them to finish a job.

Just An Opinion

Archer3083 wrote: »

I honestly think Tyrone are the weakest of the four semi-final teams. I know they got to a league final and pushed Dublin close but Dublin were not at full tilt in that game. Also, Tyrone have had the easiest path to the semi-final stage. I think Cork would have beaten Monaghan or Tyrone. Also, Tyrone have not been the team they were in 08. I just think Mayo and Dublin are so far ahead of everyone this year. Hunger is unreal in that team

I wouldn't disagree with that at all, but I'd always allow thought for a crafty set up in Tyrone. Mayo are rightly favourites but they could fall victim to experience countering complacency.

Archer3083

kerryjack wrote: »

Mayo look good, but we have seen this before from them,they can flop on the big day, like last years final when they did not turn up for the first 10 min of final, I like mayo I like there brand of football I like the people but until there win sam I wont trust them to finish a job.

Ultimately, seeing is believing, and they haven't won any All-Ireland yet. To be fair last year Mayo were very unlucky for the second goal. It should have been a free to Cillian O' Connor. McFadden was going for a point and it came back off the post. I think it was Keane who dropped the ball out of his hands. Donegal had a bit of luck last year to win that All-Ireland but they still fully deserved it. This year Mayo seem to be getting that bit of luck. They had an easy path through Connaught. And now they're getting all their players back from injury at the right time. Getting Donnie Buckley was a major coup for Mayo too.

Archer3083

Just An Opinion wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with that at all, but I'd always allow thought for a crafty set up in Tyrone. Mayo are rightly favourites but they could fall victim to experience countering complacency.

I just don't think Mickey Harte has the players this year. Sean Cavannagh has been tremendous but when he is marked he can be anonymous in a game. Also, Cavannagh has been their highest scorer in their last two matches against Meath and Monaghan. Most of those scores were from frees. The Mayo tackling has been superb this year. Mayo won't concede as many frees. I think that if Mickey Harte had better forwards up front, then he would have a great chance at the All-Ireland. Harte is an incredibly shrewd manager but he needs better players

homerjay2005

first thing Kerry need to do is analyise exactly what Meath did to Dublin in the Leinster final for 30 mins and replicate that for at least 50 minutes.

Dublin looked vulnerable that day for long periods of the game and i would like to think Kerry have better players to make it happen again, but for longer. we can also dominate them at midfield and if we cut out the short kick outs, making them go long.

if the Kerry team that showed up for 50 minutes against Cork, shows up for 60 against Dublin, we have every chance. we made Cork look like a bunch of junior players for alot of that game, missed a couple of really good goal chances and kicked 13 wides.

theres a lot of work to do, but i dont write kerry off as 90% of people seem to be doing.

Archer3083

homerjay2005 wrote: »

first thing Kerry need to do is analyise exactly what Meath did to Dublin in the Leinster final for 30 mins and replicate that for at least 50 minutes.

Dublin looked vulnerable that day for long periods of the game and i would like to think Kerry have better players to make it happen again, but for longer. we can also dominate them at midfield and if we cut out the short kick outs, making them go long.

if the Kerry team that showed up for 50 minutes against Cork, shows up for 60 against Dublin, we have every chance. we made Cork look like a bunch of junior players for alot of that game, missed a couple of really good goal chances and kicked 13 wides.

theres a lot of work to do, but i dont write kerry off as 90% of people seem to be doing.

That junior Cork team almost beat ye and they were terrible that day. Imagine, Cork almost beat Kerry in the last 15 mins of that game when Kerry was 9 points up. I don't think Kerry will dominate midfield at all. In fact Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill completely dominated midfield in the second half of the munster final this year, and they failed to do that against Dublin. Meath's big strength against Dublin this year was their midfield. The Meath forwards forced Cluxton to kick long. Meath have very big men in the centre of midfield. Gillespie and Reilly were magnificent

Stoner

that's true, as a result against Cork Dublin started Cullen to drop back into midfield and win the dirty ball, as the game progressed he grew back into it (until he went of with a bit of a knock), Connelly was also pushed into a ball winning position more than usual, his distribution was poor but he got on the ball well. Galvin is a decent manager, he talks a lot about one way of playing but he'll make the moves, go more defensive and has been watching Kerry too. The longer Dublin stay in the championship the more of the older guys will feature, my concern is that there is a lack of height there with Cahill and Fennel gone that Kerry will look to exploit.

ciarriaithuaidh

Archer3083 wrote: »

That junior Cork team almost beat ye and they were terrible that day. Imagine, Cork almost beat Kerry in the last 15 mins of that game when Kerry was 9 points up. I don't think Kerry will dominate midfield at all. In fact Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill completely dominated midfield in the second half of the munster final this year, and they failed to do that against Dublin. Meath's big strength against Dublin this year was their midfield. The Meath forwards forced Cluxton to kick long. Meath have very big men in the centre of midfield. Gillespie and Reilly were magnificent

I presume the "Junior" was meant to be an insult on that Cork team who largely have the exact same number of AI medals in their arse pocket as any current Dublin player?

As for your assertion that Cork "dominated midfield" in the second half of the Munster final..Did you watch the game? By the 56th minute, Kerry's half time lead had actually increased from 7 to 8..hardly indicative of a team being "dominated" in midfield? Even with 3 mins to go, Kerry still lead by 4 despite having taken off a host of players and clearly sat on the lead.

But keep writing Kerry and their midfield off by all means.

By the way it was Brian Meade who was midfield with Gillespie for Meath in the Leinster final.

Archer3083

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

I presume the "Junior" was meant to be an insult on that Cork team who largely have the exact same number of AI medals in their arse pocket as any current Dublin player?

As for your assertion that Cork "dominated midfield" in the second half of the Munster final..Did you watch the game? By the 56th minute, Kerry's half time lead had actually increased from 7 to 8..hardly indicative of a team being "dominated" in midfield? Even with 3 mins to go, Kerry still lead by 4 despite having taken off a host of players and clearly sat on the lead.

But keep writing Kerry and their midfield off by all means.

By the way it was Brian Meade who was midfield with Gillespie for Meath in the Leinster final.

Can you please read the posts more carefully. Homerjay2005 referred to Cork looking as a 'junior team'. I was making that point that if that was the case, then Kerry were almost beaten by a junior team. The point being that it doesn't help Kerry to think that Cork are really that bad. Cork played bad on the day but are not a bad team.

Also, the Kerry lead increased to 9 points in that game, so I do acknowledge that the half-time lead increased from 7 points to 9. I never said that Reilly partnered Gillespie. I know Reilly is centre forward. I referred to the dominance of Gillespie and Reilly in the middle of midfield. Maybe I should have more correctly referred to it as the 'middle third'.

And most observers would agree that Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill dominated midfield in the second half of the munster final. I think an increase in the lead of 7 points at half time to 9 points midway through the second half indicates that Kerry were still competitive in midfield. They simply weren't. And Cork failed to wield the same authority in midfield against Dublin. Cullen did an excellent job dropping deep. Kerry will find it hard against Dublin.

keane2097

The Cork beat Kerry Dublin beat Cork therefore Dublin will beat Kerry midfield logic is asinine.

Dublin did not beat Cork in your standard aerial bombardment midfield battle, Gavin tactically out-thought Counihan (surprise surprise) and used the mobility of his midfield to exploit Alan O'Connor's lack of gas at Intercounty level along with Canty's lack of mobility.

Doing the same to Maher, Buckley and a pretty mobile Kerry half-back line will be a different thing entirely. Kerry's biggest worry at midfield will probably be who marks Paul Flynn.

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

The Cork beat Kerry Dublin beat Cork therefore Dublin will beat Kerry midfield logic is asinine.

Dublin did not beat Cork in your standard aerial bombardment midfield battle, Gavin tactically out-thought Counihan (surprise surprise) and used the mobility of his midfield to exploit Alan O'Connor's lack of gas at Intercounty level along with Canty's lack of mobility.

Doing the same to Maher, Buckley and a pretty mobile Kerry half-back line will be a different thing entirely. Kerry's biggest worry at midfield will probably be who marks Paul Flynn.

Explain the logic of using the term asinine in a discussion. Is every opinion that you do not agree with asinine? So, are we finished discussing football and starting with the insults? I've presented my views throughout this discussion. I haven't criticized others' opinions

D'Agger

Archer3083 wrote: »

Explain the logic of using the term asinine in a discussion.

You've answered that yourself - it's a term, they're used in discussions. Logic.

Is every opinion that you do not agree with asinine? So, are we finished discussing football and starting with the insults? I've presented my views throughout this discussion. I haven't criticized others' opinions

You're taking it personally, there's a difference between insulting somebody and attacking the opinion they've presented, if boards had a 'don't criticize others opinions' rule it'd be the biggest circle jerk on the internet.

FWIW I don't fear Dublins midfield - I think Johnny Buckley is mobile enough and so is Maher to deal with their tactic of breaking forward which worked to good effect against Cork.

On the breaks - Galvin isn't the player he was in 2010 when he won POTY but himself and D.Walsh should have enough in them to win their fair share.

I don't see us getting cleaned out there tbh - my worry is containing their forwards and stopping their attacks from deep

Archer3083

D'Agger wrote: »

You've answered that yourself - it's a term, they're used in discussions. Logic.




You're taking it personally, there's a difference between insulting somebody and attacking the opinion they've presented, if boards had a 'don't criticize others opinions' rule it'd be the biggest circle jerk on the internet.

FWIW I don't fear Dublins midfield - I think Johnny Buckley is mobile enough and so is Maher to deal with their tactic of breaking forward which worked to good effect against Cork.

On the breaks - Galvin isn't the player he was in 2010 when he won POTY but himself and D.Walsh should have enough in them to win their fair share.

I don't see us getting cleaned out there tbh - my worry is containing their forwards and stopping their attacks from deep

I'm not taking it personally. I enjoy reading opinions and seeing what others think. There's no doubt the Kerry midfield is mobile but M D McCauley and Cian O'Sullivan are equally mobile. The point I was making earlier about the Cork midfield was that Cork have big physical men that changed the midfield battle in the second half of the munster final against Kerry. This did not work against Dublin, however, Meath were able to up the physical stakes and push up on Cluxton's kickouts. That worked very well for them. Kerry don't have the option to go physical, so the battle will all be centred around players getting touches to balls or flicks to players like Cullen for Dublin or Galvin for Kerry. Cullen or Galvin are brilliant at winning breaking ball or 'dirty ball' and moving that ball quickly to half forwards or else kicking direct. It's hard to know what sort of engines both players have left

keane2097

Archer3083 wrote: »

Explain the logic of using the term asinine in a discussion. Is every opinion that you do not agree with asinine? So, are we finished discussing football and starting with the insults? I've presented my views throughout this discussion. I haven't criticized others' opinions

D'Agger

Archer3083 wrote: »

I'm not taking it personally. I enjoy reading opinions and seeing what others think. There's no doubt the Kerry midfield is mobile but M D McCauley and Cian O'Sullivan are equally mobile. The point I was making earlier about the Cork midfield was that Cork have big physical men that changed the midfield battle in the second half of the munster final against Kerry. This did not work against Dublin, however, Meath were able to up the physical stakes and push up on Cluxton's kickouts. That worked very well for them. Kerry don't have the option to go physical, so the battle will all be centred around players getting touches to balls or flicks to players like Cullen for Dublin or Galvin for Kerry. Cullen or Galvin are brilliant at winning breaking ball or 'dirty ball' and moving that ball quickly to half forwards or else kicking direct. It's hard to know what sort of engines both players have left

Buckley is still light admittedly but Maher is a strong player, equally our half forward line, especially if we pull Declan O'Sullivan out, isn't exactly light either.

We won't ever own teams physically but we're well able to match Dublin in that dept. & mobility around the middle I think.

Like I said their pace coming from defence and the talent they have in their forward line is the worrying aspect of the game from my POV

Archer3083

D'Agger wrote: »

Buckley is still light admittedly but Maher is a strong player, equally our half forward line, especially if we pull Declan O'Sullivan out, isn't exactly light either.

We won't ever own teams physically but we're well able to match Dublin in that dept. & mobility around the middle I think.

Like I said their pace coming from defence and the talent they have in their forward line is the worrying aspect of the game from my POV

K Donnaghy is a possibility to strengthen midfield but B Sheehan doesn't have the legs for 70 minutes. Dublin could go for Fennel and Bastick in the last 20 minutes to close out a game if they wanted. They've got so many options, it's frightening

D'Agger

Their panel is quite strong alright.

Don't want Donnaghy at midfield though - not a good move imo

Archer3083

D'Agger wrote: »

Their panel is quite strong alright.

Don't want Donnaghy at midfield though - not a good move imo

At least it's an option. At the moment it doesn't look like there is a place for Donnaghy on the team when J O'Donnoghue is fit. It's a pity really that Donnaghy is being overlooked

homerjay2005

Archer3083 wrote: »

K Donnaghy is a possibility to strengthen midfield but B Sheehan doesn't have the legs for 70 minutes. Dublin could go for Fennel and Bastick in the last 20 minutes to close out a game if they wanted. They've got so many options, it's frightening

Donaghy, Sheehan and Moran and much better options at midfield than Bastick and Fennel IMO.

we aint exactly light on the bench either, added to those 3 (assuming that O Donoghue is fit), we have Leary, Mahony, Lyne and Brosnan to come in. all players with great experience.

Archer3083

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Donaghy, Sheehan and Moran and much better options at midfield than Bastick and Fennel IMO.

we aint exactly light on the bench either, added to those 3 (assuming that O Donoghue is fit), we have Leary, Mahony, Lyne and Brosnan to come in. all players with great experience.

I think the Kerry bench is light compared to Mayo and Dublin. This year the game is well and truly a 20 man game. I'd have alot of concerns with Aidan O'Mahony and Eoin Brosnan. I actually think both players are over the hill. I think O'Mahony still isn't right from that elbow dislocation and while Brosnan might be good marking a big man like Pearse O'Neill, I don't think he's up to the pace of Dublin's forwards. Kieran O'Leary just doesn't seem to be able to make the step up to intercounty football.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

That junior Cork team almost beat ye and they were terrible that day. Imagine, Cork almost beat Kerry in the last 15 mins of that game when Kerry was 9 points up. I don't think Kerry will dominate midfield at all. In fact Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill completely dominated midfield in the second half of the munster final this year, and they failed to do that against Dublin. Meath's big strength against Dublin this year was their midfield. The Meath forwards forced Cluxton to kick long. Meath have very big men in the centre of midfield. Gillespie and Reilly were magnificent

I think you need to take the game on face value,and look at logically in fairness.Too much is being made of Cork nearly beating kerry.

That mindset is what was a huge flaw with counihan,he failed to seey Kerry were the much much better team ,and destroyed us for practially 50 minutes,but Kerry due took their foot of the gas and were outplayed only due to that and they ran out of steam.We didnt nearly beat kerry,when we got close kerry always had another gear.

Kerry destroyed us when it mattered.

Lets be clear AOC, was finished at the start of the year.I said many times,in the Cork thread he would be exposed.

Buckley and Mahes,were superb,and dont forget it was close to 26 degrees heat in killarney.They ran themselves in to the ground.

If O connor had started with o neill,from the start,kerry would have destroyed them,as AOC as shown against Dublin was he like a dog chasing he's own tail.

The fact he won a few balls against an understanably tired oldish kerry team is not justice to the fact kerry owned midfield when The Need was greatest and not like cork when the game was well and truly over,and it was sheer heart and character that cork never gave up the good fight.

Kerry have a mobile midfield to match the Dubs,and Mccaffery will have a lot to do defensively that he wont get the chances to attack like he did against Cork.

Kerry have forwards that will score,but crucially will get fast ball and play with a true Centre forward unlike Cork who entered a man out of hes depth,and made the suspect Ger brennan look much better than what he is.

Cork got 14,points.with a team,that had no plan A,cohesion,and were a team like i said they would be,a team with no shape at all.

Kerry have problems,so do Dublin,but Kerry are well capable of winning the game.

Archer3083

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

I think you need to take the game on face value,and look at logically in fairness.Too much is being made of Cork nearly beating kerry.

That mindset is what was a huge flaw with counihan,he failed to seey Kerry were the much much better team ,and destroyed us for practially 50 minutes,but Kerry due took their foot of the gas and were outplayed only due to that and they ran out of steam.We didnt nearly beat kerry,when we got close kerry always had another gear.

Kerry destroyed us when it mattered.

Lets be clear AOC, was finished at the start of the year.I said many times,in the Cork thread he would be exposed.

Buckley and Mahes,were superb,and dont forget it was close to 26 degrees heat in killarney.They ran themselves in to the ground.

If O connor had started with o neill,from the start,kerry would have destroyed them,as AOC as shown against Dublin was he like a dog chasing he's own tail.

The fact he won a few balls against an understanably tired oldish kerry team is not justice to the fact kerry owned midfield when The Need was greatest and not like cork when the game was well and truly over,and it was sheer heart and character that cork never gave up the good fight.

Kerry have a mobile midfield to match the Dubs,and Mccaffery will have a lot to do defensively that he wont get the chances to attack like he did against Cork.

Kerry have forwards that will score,but crucially will get fast ball and play with a true Centre forward unlike Cork who entered a man out of hes depth,and made the suspect Ger brennan look much better than what he is.

Cork got 14,points.with a team,that had no plan A,cohesion,and were a team like i said they would be,a team with no shape at all.

Kerry have problems,so do Dublin,but Kerry are well capable of winning the game.

I don't think it's fair to use the heat or the early intensity of Kerry as an excuse for why Cork came back into the game in the Munster final. Afterall it's 70 minutes. 50 minutes of good play just won't do it for you. I think there's a much bigger problem for Kerry. In 2011, Kerry let Cork back into the game in the second half and we all know what happened in the final that year against Dublin in 2011. Kerry's second half displays are a big concern.

When it comes to Cork's midfield this year Aidan Walsh should have stayed in the centre and needs a better partner to help him. Canty and Cahalane were helping him in the first half of the Munster final and they were out of their depth in that position. Pearse O'Neill is not up to it now, he's 33, maybe he was never up to the level of intercounty football.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to use the heat or the early intensity of Kerry as an excuse for why Cork came back into the game in the Munster final. Afterall it's 70 minutes. 50 minutes of good play just won't do it for you. I think there's a much bigger problem for Kerry. In 2011, Kerry let Cork back into the game in the second half and we all know what happened in the final that year against Dublin in 2011. Kerry's second half displays are a big concern.

When it comes to Cork's midfield this year Aidan Walsh should have stayed in the centre and needs a better partner to help him. Canty and Cahalane were helping him in the first half of the Munster final and they were out of their depth in that position. Pearse O'Neill is not up to it now, he's 33, maybe he was never up to the level of intercounty football.

In fairness O Neill was,how many games did he play well for cork and against Kerry.

Hes best is long gone and the game has changed also.

Kerry had a 5 minute or so lapse in 2011 against dublin,unlikely to happen again.
You musnt of been in killarney like i was to say heat was not a factor,in kerry tiring.

You are wrong on all counts,i am afraid.

Archer3083

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

In fairness O Neill was,how many games did he play well for cork and against Kerry.

Hes best is long gone and the game has changed also.

Kerry had a 5 minute or so lapse in 2011 against dublin,unlikely to happen again.
You musnt of been in killarney like i was to say heat was not a factor,in kerry tiring.

You are wrong on all counts,i am afraid.

Indeed I was in Killarney, and it was incredibly hot that day but that's going to affect both teams. It's different if there is a sending off that affects one team or a referee is biased but the conditions were the same for both teams in the Munster. If heat was a factor that day, how do you explain the lack lustre performance against Cavan in the second half? I think the heat primarily affected Kerry's older players more because of age and mileage. Kerry have alot of tired legs on their team.

It was great to see O'Neill driving forward on long marauding runs but himself and Canty have always put the head down and drove forward. I'd prefer a player that looked up, saw a pass on from 30-40 yards and pinged a pass in. The Cork forwards stopped making runs for balls a long time ago.

keane2097

Archer3083 wrote: »

Indeed I was in Killarney, and it was incredibly hot that day but that's going to affect both teams. It's different if there is a sending off that affects one team or a referee is biased but the conditions were the same for both teams in the Munster. If heat was a factor that day, how do you explain the lack lustre performance against Cavan in the second half? I think the heat primarily affected Kerry's older players more because of age and mileage. Kerry have alot of tired legs on their team.

It was great to see O'Neill driving forward on long marauding runs but himself and Canty have always put the head down and drove forward. I'd prefer a player that looked up, saw a pass on from 30-40 yards and pinged a pass in. The Cork forwards stopped making runs for balls a long time ago.

The heat's not going to effect Alan O'Connor all that much if he's sitting on the bench until half time.

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

The heat's not going to effect Alan O'Connor all that much if he's sitting on the bench until half time.

That's true, but sure there was nothing to stop Kerry changing their midfield either. That's part of the game, it's a 20 man game now. Fresh legs are hugely important at key moments of the game. Ok, forget about the Cork game for a second, what happened to Kerry in the second half against Cavan?