Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

keane2097

Archer3083 wrote: »

That's true, but sure there was nothing to stop Kerry changing their midfield either. That's part of the game, it's a 20 man game now. Fresh legs are hugely important at key moments of the game. Ok, forget about the Cork game for a second, what happened to Kerry in the second half against Cavan?

They stopped playing because they were nine points up and had only conceded two points in the first half IIRC.

They also took off the best player on the park in Donnchadh Walsh about ten minutes in and pulled off a couple of other very important players early while replacing them with guys who almost certainly won't feature again this year. Whether that's as a reward for their efforts to date or was done deliberately to ensure we didn't look too comfortable I'm not sure, but it was bound to drop our level and was done voluntarily rather than out of necessity.

Bear in mind we only conceded nine points in total, and it's not like Cavan missed a load and we got off lucky. We were never less than six points up AFAIR unless there was a 30 second period when it was down to five that we scored quickly after.

I'm not sure what the panic is really meant to have been. I watched the game leaning back in my seat and don't think I sat forward once in the second half - there was nothing to see.

The only area Kerry really struggled in on Sunday was up front, which - unless we suddenly think Kerry have bad forwards as opposed to forwards who weren't particularly tuned in to play a Division 3 side - I'm not really worried about.

The vital thing for Kerry is having James O'Donoghue fit as we need his pace, and he also gives us a lot more flexibility in how we attack.

Assuming that, the game plan is probably the typical first half blitz, followed by the introduction of big units like Donaghy, Sheehan, Brosnan and O'Mahony in the second half when we need to slow down the game.

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

They stopped playing because they were nine points up and had only conceded two points in the first half IIRC.

They also took off the best player on the park in Donnchadh Walsh about ten minutes in and pulled off a couple of other very important players early while replacing them with guys who almost certainly won't feature again this year. Whether that's as a reward for their efforts to date or was done deliberately to ensure we didn't look too comfortable I'm not sure, but it was bound to drop our level and was done voluntarily rather than out of necessity.

Bear in mind we only conceded nine points in total, and it's not like Cavan missed a load and we got off lucky. We were never less than six points up AFAIR unless there was a 30 second period when it was down to five that we scored quickly after.

I'm not sure what the panic is really meant to have been. I watched the game leaning back in my seat and don't think I sat forward once in the second half - there was nothing to see.

The only area Kerry really struggled in on Sunday was up front, which - unless we suddenly think Kerry have bad forwards as opposed to forwards who weren't particularly tuned in to play a Division 3 side - I'm not really worried about.

The vital thing for Kerry is having James O'Donoghue fit as we need his pace, and he also gives us a lot more flexibility in how we attack.

Assuming that, the game plan is probably the typical first half blitz, followed by the introduction of big units like Donaghy, Sheehan, Brosnan and O'Mahony in the second half when we need to slow down the game.

You must admit that the second half performances this year are a concern. The second half of the Tyrone game in the league, the second halves against Cork and Cavan. I'm sure the Kerry management will work on that failing and improve.

DDC1990

Archer3083 wrote: »

You must admit that the second half performances this year are a concern. The second half of the Tyrone game in the league, the second halves against Cork and Cavan. I'm sure the Kerry management will work on that failing and improve.

As I've said all have had a common theme.

We blitz in the first half, we drop everyone back in the second and don't even contemplate attacking. We had 12 men behind the ball for periods last week! 12! Thats unheard of in Kerry. I have no idea why, but i'd presume its to conserve energy for bigger tests to come, and not to give away too much of our attaking strategy.

keane2097

Archer3083 wrote: »

You must admit that the second half performances this year are a concern. The second half of the Tyrone game in the league, the second halves against Cork and Cavan. I'm sure the Kerry management will work on that failing and improve.

Yeah I mean ideally you'd go on and win the second half all the time, but the common theme in those games is that we were so far out of sight at half time it's hard to really judge the second half.

A lot of it comes down to workrate and complacency. I don't think we're going to be in a position to dial back on the workrate or get complacent at any stage against Dublin, so if they run over us in the middle of the second half it's probably safe to say we don't have the physical attributes to match them for 70 minutes, but I think everyone already accepts that anyway.

The key will be damage control at whatever stage Dublin take over, whether we have a lead to defend and how well we defend it if so. Conceding nine points and not giving up any goal chances was a positive against Cavan for what little it was worth.

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah I mean ideally you'd go on and win the second half all the time, but the common theme in those games is that we were so far out of sight at half time it's hard to really judge the second half.

A lot of it comes down to workrate and complacency. I don't think we're going to be in a position to dial back on the workrate or get complacent at any stage against Dublin, so if they run over us in the middle of the second half it's probably safe to say we don't have the physical attributes to match them for 70 minutes, but I think everyone already accepts that anyway.

The key will be damage control at whatever stage Dublin take over, whether we have a lead to defend and how well we defend it if so. Conceding nine points and not giving up any goal chances was a positive against Cavan for what little it was worth.

Whoever wins it would be nice to see a close competitive game for 70 minutes cos the hurling championship this year has been seriously stealing the lime light

Fr Tod Umptious

DDC1990 wrote: »

As I've said all have had a common theme.

We blitz in the first half, we drop everyone back in the second and don't even contemplate attacking. We had 12 men behind the ball for periods last week! 12! Thats unheard of in Kerry. I have no idea why, but i'd presume its to conserve energy for bigger tests to come, and not to give away too much of our attaking strategy.

But what happens if you cannot blitz in the first half ?
What happens then ?

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what happens if you cannot blitz in the first half ?
What happens then ?

We lose?

I'm not sure what you're missing here. We know Dublin are favourites.

Lemlin

keane2097 wrote: »

They stopped playing because they were nine points up and had only conceded two points in the first half IIRC.

They also took off the best player on the park in Donnchadh Walsh about ten minutes in and pulled off a couple of other very important players early while replacing them with guys who almost certainly won't feature again this year. Whether that's as a reward for their efforts to date or was done deliberately to ensure we didn't look too comfortable I'm not sure, but it was bound to drop our level and was done voluntarily rather than out of necessity.

Bear in mind we only conceded nine points in total, and it's not like Cavan missed a load and we got off lucky. We were never less than six points up AFAIR unless there was a 30 second period when it was down to five that we scored quickly after.

I'm not sure what the panic is really meant to have been. I watched the game leaning back in my seat and don't think I sat forward once in the second half - there was nothing to see.

The only area Kerry really struggled in on Sunday was up front, which - unless we suddenly think Kerry have bad forwards as opposed to forwards who weren't particularly tuned in to play a Division 3 side - I'm not really worried about.

The vital thing for Kerry is having James O'Donoghue fit as we need his pace, and he also gives us a lot more flexibility in how we attack.

Assuming that, the game plan is probably the typical first half blitz, followed by the introduction of big units like Donaghy, Sheehan, Brosnan and O'Mahony in the second half when we need to slow down the game.

Cavan did miss a good bit. In the first fifteen minutes, 4 shots were put into the 'keepers hands.

With 15 minutes left, the game was 14 to 9 points to Kerry and Cavan kicked 4 wides in quick succession.

A few frees were also missed over the course of the game.

Kerry were good value for their win though but Dublin will score those chances.

Archer3083

Lemlin wrote: »

Cavan did miss a good bit. In the first fifteen minutes, 4 shots were put into the 'keepers hands.

With 15 minutes left, the game was 14 to 9 points to Kerry and Cavan kicked 4 wides in quick succession.

A few frees were also missed over the course of the game.

Kerry were good value for their win though but Dublin will score those chances.

I don't think Cavan were ever going to beat Kerry last Sunday and if Kerry were playing a better team then you'd expect them to be more focused and an awful lot more clinical. If Kerry play the same way against Dublin then they will be hammered. But I'm sure Fitzmaurice is drumming that into the Kerry players and surely he has a plan to outwit Gavin. I hope it's not that awful blanket defense though

keane2097

Lemlin wrote: »

Cavan did miss a good bit. In the first fifteen minutes, 4 shots were put into the 'keepers hands.

With 15 minutes left, the game was 14 to 9 points to Kerry and Cavan kicked 4 wides in quick succession.

A few frees were also missed over the course of the game.

Kerry were good value for their win though but Dublin will score those chances.

@dontfoul does his usual brilliance here, worth a read:

http://dontfoul.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/cavan-v-kerry-2013/

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

@dontfoul does his usual brilliance here, worth a read:

http://dontfoul.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/cavan-v-kerry-2013/

I always say stats are stats, they tell a tale or 2 but you only get so much out of them...but there is most certainly some useful and relevant stuff on dontfoul. I love the way he (I assume its a he, no idea!) charts the shots at goal successful or unsuccessful, including dead balls.

Lemlin

Archer3083 wrote: »

I don't think Cavan were ever going to beat Kerry last Sunday and if Kerry were playing a better team then you'd expect them to be more focused and an awful lot more clinical. If Kerry play the same way against Dublin then they will be hammered. But I'm sure Fitzmaurice is drumming that into the Kerry players and surely he has a plan to outwit Gavin. I hope it's not that awful blanket defense though

I agree re Cavan not beating them but I do think we could of put them under more pressure.

In the U21 semi final this year, Cavan were second best to Cork for the entire game but almost snatched it at the end with a goal and a few points. If we'd even landed a couple of those 4 shots at 14-9 it would of left a kick between the teams.

Archer3083

Lemlin wrote: »

I agree re Cavan not beating them but I do think we could of put them under more pressure.

In the U21 semi final this year, Cavan were second best to Cork for the entire game but almost snatched it at the end with a goal and a few points. If we'd even landed a couple of those 4 shots at 14-9 it would of left a kick between the teams.

Cavan aren't far off the mark at all. I think Cavan simply need belief. Terry Hyland said as much on The Sunday Game later Sunday night. Fantastic young squad but lacking experience

buyer95

Just backed Kerry at 6.5/1 for the All Ireland, looking forward to collecting my winnings on the 4 Monday in september. Let the media hype the Dubs and Tyrone to the moon. There is still atleast one big performance in Kerry yet, you can get us at 3/1 atm to beat Dublin. The Cavan game will do us the world of good, we now know that Donaghy will be an impact sub, and that the James O' Donoghue, Darran and Declan are what will be needed against Dublin. We have the midfield to cause Dublin huge problems. I would like to see the Gooch rotate between centre forward and corner forward, especially if he isn't having enough of an impact at centre forward. The fullback position remains a troublesome position to plug, Marc will do a job there, but he never has been as effective at full as in the corner. All things considered, I'm quietly confident that we will get revenge for 2011 against the Dubs, and we can worry about Mayo(presuming they beat Tyrone) when that needs worrying about.

Poor_old_gill

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed Kerry at 6.5/1 for the All Ireland, looking forward to collecting my winnings on the 4 Monday in september. Let the media hype the Dubs and Tyrone to the moon. There is still atleast one big performance in Kerry yet, you can get us at 3/1 atm to beat Dublin. The Cavan game will do us the world of good, we now know that Donaghy will be an impact sub, and that the James O' Donoghue, Darran and Declan are what will be needed against Dublin. We have the midfield to cause Dublin huge problems. I would like to see the Gooch rotate between centre forward and corner forward, especially if he isn't having enough of an impact at centre forward. The fullback position remains a troublesome position to plug, Marc will do a job there, but he never has been as effective at full as in the corner. All things considered, I'm quietly confident that we will get revenge for 2011 against the Dubs, and we can worry about Mayo(presuming they beat Tyrone) when that needs worrying about.

How much did you put on it?

I think we can win it- I'm just not sure if we will as any of the 4 could pull a big performance out of the bag in the semi finals and blow it wide open.

Mayo look very strong but have shown their full hand against Donegal and although that doesn't mean they are beatable at least people know what they can bring to the table.

Dublin have looked good going forward but and have some formidable options but if Cork had got their match ups right it might have been different- leaving Alan O Connor on MDM allowed him to run the game and surely no team will allow Jack McCafferey to go on so many runs.

Kerry have been progressing steadily and have the players to put in a big performance but I'm personally unsure of how it will go- as discussed on here- the tactics are to blitz a team early and try close out the game. Although I'm less concerned about the strength of the bench than I was at the start of the year- I still question if the players coming in are good enough to close out a game. Like any team- they will need a bit of luck but James O Donoghue coming back in for Donaghy should improve the forward line.

Tyrone are Tyrone- they will try turn every game into a dog fight and if they are successful in doing so then they will win the majority. Cavanagh is having a cracking year and they will thrive in the high pressure business end of the season

Amprodude

Has anyone considered that Dublin like Kerry didn't play their best football the last day and still won comfortably? They beat Cork by almost more points than what Kerry did with Cavan. Cork are definitely better than Cavan make no mistake about that. Kerry dominated Cork in Killarney for a lot of the game but only barely fell over the line in the end. It would be a concern. Hard one to call but if Dublin do perform to what we know they can then, then I could see one winner but as you know games don't always go like that.

Archer3083

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

How much did you put on it?

I think we can win it- I'm just not sure if we will as any of the 4 could pull a big performance out of the bag in the semi finals and blow it wide open.

Mayo look very strong but have shown their full hand against Donegal and although that doesn't mean they are beatable at least people know what they can bring to the table.

Dublin have looked good going forward but and have some formidable options but if Cork had got their match ups right it might have been different- leaving Alan O Connor on MDM allowed him to run the game and surely no team will allow Jack McCafferey to go on so many runs.

Kerry have been progressing steadily and have the players to put in a big performance but I'm personally unsure of how it will go- as discussed on here- the tactics are to blitz a team early and try close out the game. Although I'm less concerned about the strength of the bench that I was at the start of the year- I still question are the players coming in good enough to close out a game. Like any team- they will need a bit of luck but James O Donoghue coming back in for Donaghy should improve the forward line.

Tyrone are Tyrone- they will try turn every game into a dog fight and if they are successful in doing so then they will win the majority. Cavanagh is having a cracking year and they will thrive in the high pressure business end of the season

I wonder how Kerry will deal with Jack McCaffrey and McCarthy? Against Cork both players were able to get forward alot and set up a lot of attacks and scoring chances. I don't think there is any way to defend against these players. I think the best bet is for Kerry to press Dublin high up the pitch and make McCaffrey and McCarthy concentrate on defending instead of attacking. It might be a bit high risk but Kerry have the forwards to trouble Dublin. They just need to sustain that effort over the full 70 minutes.

It's probably a moot point now because Darragh Ó Sé can't return to the Kerry set up but Kerry were an awful lot better with him in midfield. He was a superb player and well able to control games and close games out

Poor_old_gill

Archer3083 wrote: »

I wonder how Kerry will deal with Jack McCaffrey and McCarthy? Against Cork both players were able to get forward alot and set up a lot of attacks and scoring chances. I don't think there is any way to defend against these players. I think the best bet is for Kerry to press Dublin high up the pitch and make McCaffrey and McCarthy concentrate on defending instead of attacking. It might be a bit high risk but Kerry have the forwards to trouble Dublin. They just need to sustain that effort over the full 70 minutes.

It's probably a moot point now because Darragh Ó Sé can't return to the Kerry set up but Kerry were an awful lot better with him in midfield. He was a superb player and well able to control games and close games out

Darragh was the best midfielder of the last 20 years! Any team would be immensely improved by him!

Meath did a good job of curbing McCaffrey- I'm not saying that it's easy but it is doable.

Archer3083

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Darragh was the best midfielder of the last 20 years! Any team would be immensely improved by him!

Meath did a good job of curbing McCaffrey- I'm not saying that it's easy but it is doable.

Darragh O Sé had it all. He was strong, athletic and had a brain. He's missed since he retired. I don't think Kerry have been able to replace his since. But sure there is nothing that can be done about that.

I'd say Kerry might drop Galvin and Donncha Walsh back at times in the game to give cover to their defense. This should make plenty of room for Cooper, O'Donoghue, Darran and Declan O'Sullivan. Walsh definitely has a great engine and the legs to run all day. I'd worry about Galvin though.

ciarriaithuaidh

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed Kerry at 6.5/1 for the All Ireland, looking forward to collecting my winnings on the 4 Monday in september. Let the media hype the Dubs and Tyrone to the moon. There is still atleast one big performance in Kerry yet, you can get us at 3/1 atm to beat Dublin. The Cavan game will do us the world of good, we now know that Donaghy will be an impact sub, and that the James O' Donoghue, Darran and Declan are what will be needed against Dublin. We have the midfield to cause Dublin huge problems. I would like to see the Gooch rotate between centre forward and corner forward, especially if he isn't having enough of an impact at centre forward. The fullback position remains a troublesome position to plug, Marc will do a job there, but he never has been as effective at full as in the corner. All things considered, I'm quietly confident that we will get revenge for 2011 against the Dubs, and we can worry about Mayo(presuming they beat Tyrone) when that needs worrying about.

Love the optimism! 3/1 is ridiculous for the Dublin game at least, must look at that. It really is a tough ask to beat Dublin and Mayo (who I'm sure will beat Tyrone) though.

keane2097

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Love the optimism! 3/1 is ridiculous for the Dublin game at least, must look at that. It really is a tough ask to beat Dublin and Mayo (who I'm sure will beat Tyrone) though.

Best odds available on Kerry is 21/10. Probably confusing decimal odds with fractional. Would be 3.1.

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

Best odds available on Kerry is 21/10. Probably confusing decimal odds with fractional. Would be 3.1.

Yeah seemed a bit long alright. I hope you are using the "yerra we'll do our besht to give ye a game" angle on a daily basis up there?! And yes, you need to put on a Wesht Kerry accent aswell..they'll get confused if you speak in your townie brogue!

keane2097

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Yeah seemed a bit long alright. I hope you are using the "yerra we'll do our besht to give ye a game" angle on a daily basis up there?! And yes, you need to put on a Wesht Kerry accent aswell..they'll get confused if you speak in your townie brogue!

I calls em like I sees em! Unfortunately, much as my ego would like to think it what I say makes **** all difference to what will happen on the day as we know well - looking at the Mayo thread is hilarious to see fans chided each other for getting too excited, as though Aidan O'Shea will play worse because some randomer on the boards thinks they're going to win the All Ireland!

Stoner

There is no Fennel on the Dublin panel now lads, or Barry Cahill for that matter, Bastic coming on is the only other midfield option Dublin have if you guys are cleaning up at midfield.
The interesting thing that about the Cork Dublin game is that people are saying that Cork made an ass of pushing up on Cluxton, however Dublin turned over the majority of Corks kickouts and it was this as much as everything else that contributed to the success there.
Dublin have little height in midfield, it's by design the bigger lads we tried in the league are fit but dropped off the panel, so this is a brand of football that Galvin is pushing he went into the championship knowing that other teams have bigger taller men.
Dublins midfield was a massive concern going into the Cork game, a simple thing like dropping Cullen back in midfield addressed a lot of the problems.
I think Kerrys biggest dark horse worry will be Connelly, like Cullen he dropped back a lot and won a huge amount of ball, people have missed that because his delivery was so poor and it hid his good work winning ball, without troubling the posts he played well in 2011.

I'm concerned about whoever kerry play at number 14. If it's one of your giants then Dublin could struggle.
Kerry will win much more of their own kickouts than Cork did I'd imagine, but don't think that it was Corks poor management in not pressing the Dublin kickouts that lost it for Cork, there is more to it and Galvin than that, that Dublin midfield to my amazement dominated the Cork kickouts.

DDC1990

Word is that O'Mahoney is done for the year. Wound got infected.

Sheehan is also likely to miss the SemiFinal. Not certain what his injury is.

Reduced our experience off the bench.

JessePinkman

DDC1990 wrote: »

Word is that O'Mahoney is done for the year. Wound got infected.

Sheehan is also likely to miss the SemiFinal. Not certain what his injury is.

Reduced our experience off the bench.

Dunno is that true about Mahoney,Heard he is training away...Sheehan as bas as the injury is could we get 10 minutes out of him?

D'Agger

I'd have been more worried about Sheehan if Moran hadn't played against Cavan tbh, that said, his range for free taking could be a loss if Kerry are chasing the game and Dublin are willing to concede frees further out the field

DDC1990

Congrats to the Kerry Ladies who had a narrow 2-14 to 2-13 victory over Mayo today.

They are having a fantastic season, winning promotion from Division 2 and beating Cork twice on the way to winning the Munster championship.

They are blowing teams off the park and winning the tight games as well which is a great sign.

skeleton_boy

Got very lucky today. Every decision went their way in the last 10min. But you need that luck if you're to win an All-Ireland I guess. Defense needs to improve in a big way for the next game. Hopefully this game will bring them on now after a long lay off.

JFlah

skeleton_boy wrote: »

Got very lucky today. Every decision went their way in the last 10min. But you need that luck if you're to win an All-Ireland I guess. Defense needs to improve in a big way for the next game. Hopefully this game will bring them on now after a long lay off.

Yeah got lucky today but I think Mayo were underrated also, Cora Staunton is/has been some player down the years. Kerry v's Cork in SF I think ..should be a cracker incredible comeback by Cork today.


Only really got into the ladies game once my daughter reached competetive age groups but love it now at all levels.Pure football generally played openly at a very good level , little or no cynicism and loads of cracking games ... hard to beat it and the mens game could learn a lot from it !