Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

D'Agger

Archer3083 wrote: »

McMeniman has got pace to burn and may come on with 20 minutes to go which will test tired legs. What I would be more worried about is aging legs in the starting back line for Kerry. Sunday will tell how tired those legs are

Marc and Tomas basically so seeing as every other defender has youth on their side.

Tomás has a great engine on him, if he curbs his forward runs a bit he'll be fine, Marc is Marc, dependable to the last, wouldn't be worried about his legs either.

keane2097

Tomás will definitely need to be replaced at some stage. He's visibly gassing in recent games.

I think I've yet to see Marc tired in his career though.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Tomás will definitely need to be replaced at some stage. He's visibly gassing in recent games.

I think I've yet to see Marc tired in his career though.

Tomás has tired due to making stupid runs upfield, he needs to be more selective in his running

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

Tomás has tired due to making stupid runs upfield, he needs to be more selective in his running

Stupid runs upfield? He's been making them for 10 years. It's more a part of the job now than it ever has been before, if he's not able to do it for 70 minutes he still needs to do it while he can.

homerjay2005

cant recall a Kerry team being written off like this before. yet to see anybody tipping us to win sunday and Dublin are unbackable in the bookies.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

cant recall a Kerry team being written off like this before. yet to see anybody tipping us to win sunday and Dublin are unbackable in the bookies.

Oisín McConville went for us on Second Captains last night. Decent discussion of the game to be fair.

I actually give us a pretty good chance, but Dublin are clearly a touch better so I'm not surprised that most people think they'll win.

BPKS

homerjay2005 wrote: »

cant recall a Kerry team being written off like this before. yet to see anybody tipping us to win sunday and Dublin are unbackable in the bookies.

2009 quarter final

homerjay2005

BPKS wrote: »

2009 quarter final

hmm i dunno. i think most Kerry people wanted Dublin back then and when we got them, the place and team lifted. secretly most Kerry people believed Dublin were there for the taking and while we have alot of that panel still playing, they are 4 years older.

Sunday is sold out...anybody know how many tickets kerry got?

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Stupid runs upfield? He's been making them for 10 years. It's more a part of the job now than it ever has been before, if he's not able to do it for 70 minutes he still needs to do it while he can.

Yes, stupid runs upfield, wing backs need to bomb forward as that's the way the game has gone, but Tomás, notably against Cork, carried the ball up the wing when the easier move was to lay off possession to a deep lying Cooper, or pop the ball into the full forward line - too many times he carried the ball when it was smarter to let it off and conserve his energy.

Like you said - he's been making runs for 10 years, it's hard to sustain and he needs to be getting a bit cuter as per when he ventures forward.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

hmm i dunno. i think most Kerry people wanted Dublin back then and when we got them, the place and team lifted. secretly most Kerry people believed Dublin were there for the taking and while we have alot of that panel still playing, they are 4 years older.

Sunday is sold out...anybody know how many tickets kerry got?

Yeah it's a different set up to that. Dublin being favourites for that game was the greatest misprice I've ever seen in GAA, this time around they genuinely are favourites.

homerjay2005

for us to win sunday, we need the following -

force dublin into going long with all their kick outs.
win midfield.
use the game we played against cork for 50 minutes and play like that for 60.
declan, darran and james to turn up and have their shooting boots on - we need at least 3 scores from play each.

Gooch to be on song and getting about 6 points in total. if we can hit around 1-15, we have a great chance IMO.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

Oisín McConville went for us on Second Captains last night. Decent discussion of the game to be fair.

I actually give us a pretty good chance, but Dublin are clearly a touch better so I'm not surprised that most people think they'll win.

Darragh O' Se does also in the Irish Times, but it's seems based more on sentimentality and intangibles rather than cold hard analysis, and O'Se more or less admits as much

JM Skipton

BPKS wrote: »

2009 quarter final

Most people forget Denis Bastik and paddy andrews were in the Dublin full back line that day so why was it a surprise to anybody that Dublin were taken to the cleaners

Archer3083

I think Dublin are justifiable favourites. They've had nearly the perfect year both in terms of the league and championship. Kerry on the other hand have been very stilted and good performances have been marred by bad performances. This is especially true in games where the first half has been brilliant and the second half poor. Kerry lost to a Dublin team that was not as good back in 2011. The personnel on the Kerry team have not really changed. And in the cases where new players have come in, they're not as good as the players they've replaced. I'm afraid a Dublin win is the inevitable conclusion.

Last week Tyrone were given a great chance by the media. Couldn't understand why as Tyrone have been repeatedly beaten by Cork in 09, Dublin in 10 and 11 and Kerry in 12 as well as Mayo last Sunday. The point I'm making with Tryone is that the team that won All-Irelands had better players and the new players have not been as good as the players they were replacing. Kerry have come up short against Down in 10, Dublin in 11 and Donegal in 12. It's very hard to say things will be different next Sunday. The optimism is based more on hope than expectation.

Stoner

Great post, have to agree about Tyrone, it's been three or four years since they delivered, they are certainly not the scalp they once were, Dublin and Kerry have given them a bit of a hammering in recent years.
Dublin and kerry in 2011 was a near 50/50 match up. So kerry are much nearer to the boil. Dublin while they look better now going forward are a little softer and lighter in the middle. It'll be a good game

Archer3083

Stoner wrote: »

Great post, have to agree about Tyrone, it's been three or four years since they delivered, they are certainly not the scalp they once were, Dublin and Kerry have given them a bit of a hammering in recent years.
Dublin and kerry in 2011 was a near 50/50 match up. So kerry are much nearer to the boil. Dublin while they look better now going forward are a little softer and lighter in the middle. It'll be a good game

I agree. The game between Dublin and Kerry was 50/50 and Kerry were unlucky to lose that match, but they did lose. I think since 2011 Dublin have ultimately improved and added better players. I just think that Kerry have failed to find better placers as replacements since 2011. I still think it's going to be a fascinating game on Sunday. It'll be nice to see 2 new managers in Fitzmaurice and Gavin facing off against each other. The game should be very tactical but hopefully also very attacking and exciting.

buyer95

20 euro on Kerry at 3.30/1, going to be close but I have a good feeling.

davegrohl48

I'd like to see Kerry use Darren O'Sullivan very aggressively as a goal scoring option. Quite a simple and basic tactic but I'v never understood him having to win his own ball under pressure and then having to turn and run at a well covered defence. Kerry have enough guaranteed posession for him to be the final option as a sought out simple handpass with O'Sullivan facing goal coming on the burst. He's not markable in that situation.
He will win frees, penalties and get goals when running at the defence like that.

BPKS

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think Dublin are justifiable favourites. They've had nearly the perfect year both in terms of the league and championship. Kerry on the other hand have been very stilted and good performances have been marred by bad performances. This is especially true in games where the first half has been brilliant and the second half poor. Kerry lost to a Dublin team that was not as good back in 2011. The personnel on the Kerry team have not really changed. And in the cases where new players have come in, they're not as good as the players they've replaced. I'm afraid a Dublin win is the inevitable conclusion.

Last week Tyrone were given a great chance by the media. Couldn't understand why as Tyrone have been repeatedly beaten by Cork in 09, Dublin in 10 and 11 and Kerry in 12 as well as Mayo last Sunday. The point I'm making with Tryone is that the team that won All-Irelands had better players and the new players have not been as good as the players they were replacing. Kerry have come up short against Down in 10, Dublin in 11 and Donegal in 12. It's very hard to say things will be different next Sunday. The optimism is based more on hope than expectation.

7 changes from the starting line-up in 2011 final for Kerry. Current player v player he replaced.

Mark Griffin for Tom Sullivan - Tom Sullivan everytime
Shane Enright for Killian Young - Shane a better corner back than Killian as last year proved
Peter Crowley for Brosnan - Brosnan on the bench so Crowley obviously a better to start. He hits a shoulder as good as James McCarthy so watch out
Fionn Fitzgerald for Aidan O'Mahony - Fionn more suited as a modern half back, very pacey and O'Mahony is on the bench
Johnny Buckley for Sheehan - Sheehan on bench, Johnny approaching Sheehan's 2011 form
Paul Galvin for O'Leary - depends which Galvin shows up
James O Donoghue for Donaghy - Donaghy on the bench, Munster Final display showed the country how good this lad is

So maybe your conclusion isnt as inevitable as it seems when you actually delve into it.

buyer95

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think Dublin are justifiable favourites. They've had nearly the perfect year both in terms of the league and championship. Kerry on the other hand have been very stilted and good performances have been marred by bad performances. This is especially true in games where the first half has been brilliant and the second half poor. Kerry lost to a Dublin team that was not as good back in 2011. The personnel on the Kerry team have not really changed. And in the cases where new players have come in, they're not as good as the players they've replaced. I'm afraid a Dublin win is the inevitable conclusion.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post, and posted 09 team. I'll leave it up for anyone who wants to see the personnel changes though from 09 to 13



2009 2013

D.Murphy-B.Kealy

M.O'Se-M.O'Se T.Griffen-M.Griffen T.O'SullivanS.Enright


T.O'Se-T.O'Se M.McCarthy-P.Crowley K.Young-F.Fitzgerald


D.O'Se-A.Maher S.Scanlon-J.Buckley

P.Galvin-P.Galvin D.O'Sullivan-C.Cooper(both players started in 09) D.Walsh-D.Walsh

C.Cooper-D.O'Sullivan(bothe played in 09) T.Walsh-Declan.O'Sullivan Dar O'Sul-J.O'Donoghue

That would mean the goalkeeper, fullback, corner back, centre back, wing back, 2 midfielders and fullforward are different. Tadgh Kenelly who played a pivotal role that year, and kicked 2 points off the bench is also gone. To say the personnel hasn't really changed is baffling. I would agree that the players who have replaced those 9 players, have not of yet proven to be as good as the players that went before. But when those players include some of Kerry's greatest like, Darragh O'Se, Mike McCarthy, Diarmuid Murphy and even Tom O'Sullivan, who was stunning that year. The game on Sunday is ideal for the likes of Fionn Fitzgerald, Johnny Buckley and Mark Griffen to show the kerry faithful that the future is bright, with no expectation on them to win , except from within the kerry camp. Kerry to win, but only by the minimum.

buyer95

BPKS wrote: »

7 changes from the starting line-up in 2011 final for Kerry. Current player v player he replaced.

Mark Griffin for Tom Sullivan - Tom Sullivan everytime
Shane Enright for Killian Young - Shane a better corner back than Killian as last year proved
Peter Crowley for Brosnan - Brosnan on the bench so Crowley obviously a better to start. He hits a shoulder as good as James McCarthy so watch out
Fionn Fitzgerald for Aidan O'Mahony - Fionn more suited as a modern half back, very pacey and O'Mahony is on the bench
Johnny Buckley for Sheehan - Sheehan on bench, Johnny approaching Sheehan's 2011 form
Paul Galvin for O'Leary - depends which Galvin shows up
James O Donoghue for Donaghy - Donaghy on the bench, Munster Final display showed the country how good this lad is

So maybe your conclusion isnt as inevitable as it seems when you actually delve into it.

Haha, I'm typing that the last hour, and then I post it up and I see this above it. Oh well, great minds think alike I suppose!

Archer3083

BPKS wrote: »

7 changes from the starting line-up in 2011 final for Kerry. Current player v player he replaced.

Mark Griffin for Tom Sullivan - Tom Sullivan everytime
Shane Enright for Killian Young - Shane a better corner back than Killian as last year proved
Peter Crowley for Brosnan - Brosnan on the bench so Crowley obviously a better to start. He hits a shoulder as good as James McCarthy so watch out
Fionn Fitzgerald for Aidan O'Mahony - Fionn more suited as a modern half back, very pacey and O'Mahony is on the bench
Johnny Buckley for Sheehan - Sheehan on bench, Johnny approaching Sheehan's 2011 form
Paul Galvin for O'Leary - depends which Galvin shows up
James O Donoghue for Donaghy - Donaghy on the bench, Munster Final display showed the country how good this lad is

So maybe your conclusion isnt as inevitable as it seems when you actually delve into it.

I don't think you can consider Galvin as being a new player in the 2013 team on the basis that he didn't start in 2011. He's one of the old guard and was had a few troubled seasons with injury in 10 and 11. I don't think it's fair to compare older players' form from 2011 with new players' form in 2013

I think when you compare both sets of players at their best form then the older generation wins every time. Donaghy at top form is much better than O'Donoghue and was instrumental in the 07 All-Ireland and has been a fantastic servant. And if you look at Galvin replacing O'Leary. I'm sure O'Leary is still quite young, and although he's been pretty good with Crokes over the years, he still hasn't made the break through at inter county level. Galvin at 33 is still the best option. That switch pretty much proves my point that Kerry are going back to older players to win the day for them because the younger guys haven't stepped up to the mark or aren't anyway near the same quality.

Stoner

Archer3083 wrote: »

I don't think you can consider Galvin as being a new player in the 2013 team on the basis that he didn't start in 2011. He's one of the old guard and was had a few troubled seasons with injury in 10 and 11. I don't think it's fair to compare older players' form from 2011 with new players' form in 2013

I think when you compare both sets of players at their best form then the older generation wins every time. Donaghy at top form is much better for than O'Donoghue and was instrumental in the 07 All-Ireland and has been a fantastic servant. And if you look at Galvin replacing O'Leary. I'm sure O'Leary is still quite young, and although he's been pretty good with Crokes over the years, he still hasn't made the break through at inter county level. Galvin at 33 is still the best option. That switch pretty much proves my point that Kerry are going back to older players to win the day for them because the younger guys haven't stepped up to the mark or aren't anyway near the same quality.

Didn't Galvin come on in the first 15 minutes in, 2011, he came on and really didn't play well at all and ruined the impact sub threat that we expected, that was another thing that didn't go Kerrys way on the day.

Archer3083

Stoner wrote: »

Didn't Galvin come on in the first 15 minutes in, 2011, he came on and really didn't play well at all and ruined the impact sub threat that we expected, that was another thing that didn't go Kerrys way on the day.

Yeah, I remember Galvin coming on against Dublin and he was more chasing shadows than anything else, but that was because he wasn't match fit. That was a bad season for Galvin with injuries and it was probably a bit of panic from Jack on the side lines but sure sometimes it works out and some times it doesn't. And sure what ever the winning team does, it's always right. Remember Declan O'Sullivan could have fouled McMeniman for that goal and then we'd be told Jack did everything right. So, it's all about the small margins really at this stage when the better teams meet each other. I think Galvin is much better in 12 and this year but he's not the player he was. He doesn't have the legs to go forward like he was able to do back in 09 when he won player of the year. Galvin more or less plays around the middle and hand passes the ball to running players or kicks to half forwards. At least he has experience and he a very intelligent football.

Also, Donaghy had a fantastic game against Dublin in 11. It's a pity he's not in better form now. I wonder if Fitzmaurice doesn't get on with Donaghy. He seems to be doing well at club level. It might be a personality clash or maybe it's just that Donaghy doesn't fit into Fitzmaurice's game plan. I think it might be a bit of both, but he'll be a great player to bring on if Kerry are chasing to game and pump long direct ball into him, switch Gooch to corner forward and that might be a game changer if Kerry are behind in the second half.

Prop Joe

demand for tickets is mental...got 1 looking for 2 more,Any helpers?

Fr Tod Umptious

Prop Joe wrote: »

demand for tickets is mental...got 1 looking for 2 more,Any helpers?

They went on public sale a few weeks ago, why did you not get them then ?

Amprodude

homerjay2005 wrote: »

cant recall a Kerry team being written off like this before. yet to see anybody tipping us to win sunday and Dublin are unbackable in the bookies.

I said here already that Kerry have every chance of winning. The game Sunday will tell if Kerry are a dead force or if Dublin are overrated. Time will tell.

stretchdoe

Archer3083 wrote: »

Yeah, I remember Galvin coming on against Dublin and he was more chasing shadows than anything else, but that was because he wasn't match fit. That was a bad season for Galvin with injuries and it was probably a bit of panic from Jack on the side lines but sure sometimes it works out and some times it doesn't. And sure what ever the winning team does, it's always right. Remember Declan O'Sullivan could have fouled McMeniman for that goal and then we'd be told Jack did everything right. So, it's all about the small margins really at this stage when the better teams meet each other. I think Galvin is much better in 12 and this year but he's not the player he was. He doesn't have the legs to go forward like he was able to do back in 09 when he won player of the year. Galvin more or less plays around the middle and hand passes the ball to running players or kicks to half forwards. At least he has experience and he a very intelligent football.

Also, Donaghy had a fantastic game against Dublin in 11. It's a pity he's not in better form now. I wonder if Fitzmaurice doesn't get on with Donaghy. He seems to be doing well at club level. It might be a personality clash or maybe it's just that Donaghy doesn't fit into Fitzmaurice's game plan. I think it might be a bit of both, but he'll be a great player to bring on if Kerry are chasing to game and pump long direct ball into him, switch Gooch to corner forward and that might be a game changer if Kerry are behind in the second half.

Was literally about to write the points i've bolded here: saw your post and don't have to.
Don't know if there's anything to what your surmising regarding personality clash etc: Fitzmaurice may well just be going this way purely based on pragmatic grounds.
If Kerry stick around and keep it close into the second half, as i suspect they will, a motivated Donaghy will be some weapon, potentially in a number of ways, to have coming off the bench in the second half.

Prop Joe

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They went on public sale a few weeks ago, why did you not get them then ?

:rolleyes:

D'Agger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They went on public sale a few weeks ago, why did you not get them then ?