Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Amprodude

MOTM wrote: »

A bit of optimism from a man who walks the walk:http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2014/0218/505104-oconnor-kerry-can-prosper-without-cooper/

Despite Gooch's injury I think we have plenty of very good forwards but have more concerns in the back line. Will be interesting to see if and how aidan o mahony will be used..... if he was fit and hungry he'd add steel and experience at full back and cover for some of kielys lapses under the high ball.

No disrespect to o Mahony but I think he's past his best IMO. I dont think hes good enough at this stage of his career. I don't know how he would do against a top class forward.

Archer3083

Amprodude wrote: »

No disrespect to o Mahony but I think he's past his best IMO. I dont think hes good enough at this stage of his career. I don't know how he would do against a top class forward.

I don't think Fitzmaurice has any plans to use him as a starting player this year in championship. So far, he seems to be bringing on in midfield late on in games in the league. But I don't think he's fit for the panel this year, never mind as an impact sub. I think he's lost his pace, and that's not something you get back as you get older. Great player in his day. Incredibly tenacious, spirited and physical but his best days are long behind him.

mhaigheo

DDC1990 wrote: »

It was Donal Newcombe the Castlebar Captain. Tom Cunniffe is behind Gooch and gives him a little shove towards goal. Newcombe was trying to block but pulled his hands back and ended up catching Cooper with his shoulder on the knee.

Think you are wrong .It was Ger Mcdonagh who made the attempted block on Cooper

MOTM

Amprodude wrote: »

No disrespect to o Mahony but I think he's past his best IMO. I dont think hes good enough at this stage of his career. I don't know how he would do against a top class forward.

Well if its mark griffin then he has potential but himself and kiely need to "own" the square more than they do.

homerjay2005

Gooch suffered a fractured knee on top of the ACL. must have been a real bad tackle to do that amount of damage.

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/2/1902140756-cooper-injury-complicated-by-fractured-knee/

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Gooch suffered a fractured knee on top of the ACL. must have been a real bad tackle to do that amount of damage.

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/2/1902140756-cooper-injury-complicated-by-fractured-knee/

Yes your right.
The player went out of his way to make sure he did extra damage to him.

DDC1990

mhaigheo wrote: »

Think you are wrong .It was Ger Mcdonagh who made the attempted block on Cooper

Actually, you are dead right.

I'm just amazed that McDonagh was tracking back!

Wouldn't be my favourite player, Dived twice looking to get Crokes players Black Carded and put in another dirty hit off the ball 5 yards from Maurice Deegan (Linesman - who at the time was looking at his boots, and only looked up when the crowd roared!)

The tackle on Cooper was late, but it was more clumsy than anything.

homerjay2005

mhaigheo wrote: »

Think you are wrong .It was Ger Mcdonagh who made the attempted block on Cooper

not sure why your making an attempt to shift blame, there was 2 players involved though the tackle from the player who was coming into coopers right was bizzare to say the least.

in saying that, the second player on the left may have actually caused it by knocking cooper into the oncoming player trying to tackle.

jack o shea

mayo ruining another championship before it even starts!!!

GBXI

DDC1990 wrote: »

It was Donal Newcombe the Castlebar Captain. Tom Cunniffe is behind Gooch and gives him a little shove towards goal. Newcombe was trying to block but pulled his hands back and ended up catching Cooper with his shoulder on the knee.

Incorrect.

DDC1990

GBXI wrote: »

Incorrect.

DDC1990 wrote: »

Actually, you are dead right.

I'm just amazed that McDonagh was tracking back!

Wouldn't be my favourite player, Dived twice looking to get Crokes players Black Carded and put in another dirty hit off the ball 5 yards from Maurice Deegan (Linesman - who at the time was looking at his boots, and only looked up when the crowd roared!)

The tackle on Cooper was late, but it was more clumsy than anything.

Just read 3 posts up. I clarified that I was wrong.

D'Agger

DDC1990 wrote: »

The tackle on Cooper was late, but it was more clumsy than anything.

Was on the receiving end of a similar enough tackle last year that put me out for 3 weeks with only slight damage to my knee - I was lucky because I was on the left side, shooting for goal with my left leg and my follow through met a player who dived in late and caught me on the inside knee.

The player who tackled me that day received no card, and unless I'm mistaken, the player who fouled Cooper didn't receive punishment either? Just wondering what are peoples thoughts on this with regard to interpretation of the rules.

Now, I'm a forward, so I'm obviously going to be a bit biased, but for me these types of tackles are being left go as clumsy, no malice, etc. - it doesn't excuse the fact that a late tackle can do serious damage to a player - in Coopers case, possibly the worst amount of damage to his knee that could be expected. At the end of the day, a player is at his/her most vunerable and open to being injured when kicking.

I'm sure the player who caught Cooper was making a genuine attempt at stopping him scoring, but he flung himself in recklessly and injured a player as a result. If he avoided disciplinary action from the referee then it's simply not good enough in my book.

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

Was on the receiving end of a similar enough tackle last year that put me out for 3 weeks with only slight damage to my knee - I was lucky because I was on the left side, shooting for goal with my left leg and my follow through met a player who dived in late and caught me on the inside knee.

The player who tackled me that day received no card, and unless I'm mistaken, the player who fouled Cooper didn't receive punishment either? Just wondering what are peoples thoughts on this with regard to interpretation of the rules.

Now, I'm a forward, so I'm obviously going to be a bit biased, but for me these types of tackles are being left go as clumsy, no malice, etc. - it doesn't excuse the fact that a late tackle can do serious damage to a player - in Coopers case, possibly the worst amount of damage to his knee that could be expected. At the end of the day, a player is at his/her most vunerable and open to being injured when kicking.

I'm sure the player who caught Cooper was making a genuine attempt at stopping him scoring, but he flung himself in recklessly and injured a player as a result. If he avoided disciplinary action from the referee then it's simply not good enough in my book.

A tackle that ends up taking a player around the knee is inherently dangerous, so I suppose you could make an argument that it should be sanctioned against, i.e. if you're going to hurl your body missile-like in an attempt to block you better make damn sure you get it right.

DDC1990

Where do you stop then? If you start disciplinary proceedings against guys for diving in for blocks, then lads aren't going to try blocks at all, and you are losing one of the greatest Defensive skills in our game.

You already see guys getting cards for mistimed shoulders.

You saw Cooper execute an excellent diving dispossession against Cork last year, only to see the referee give a free in.

I'm a forward, but at this stage is it any wonder Defence has come down to, putting a shítload of guys behind the ball and crowding around until the guy overcarries it. All the basic skills of blocking, dispossessing, shouldering have all given way to this rugby style ruck/maul situation.

It would be a shame to see cards given or disciplinary action taken for genuine attempts to defend, in my opinion.

Yes players have got hurt. Peter Harte got a nasty injury last year after a great Tom Cunniffe shoulder which was for me a perfectly timed hit. Its a physical game, and guys are going to get injuries, but I don't think that's reason enough to start tougher sanctions on mistimed defensive efforts.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

A tackle that ends up taking a player around the knee is inherently dangerous, so I suppose you could make an argument that it should be sanctioned against, i.e. if you're going to hurl your body missile-like in an attempt to block you better make damn sure you get it right.

im surprised so little is being made of the tackle. if it was a leinster or ulster club, there would be a different approach.

onus is on players to look after each other and regardless of it being accidental or not, the repercussions of it are very serious.

DDC1990

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im surprised so little is being made of the tackle. if it was a leinster or ulster club, there would be a different approach.

onus is on players to look after each other and regardless of it being accidental or not, the repercussions of it are very serious.

Why exactly?

Its nothing you don't see every weekend in any Gaa game.

It was late, but it was a big slow midfielder trying to block one of the quickest forwards in the game.

I was at the game and watched it back on TG4, I didn't feel at any stage that it was malicious. So why should a big deal be made of a mistimed tackle?

For example, if Cooper hadn't been injured then no-one would care about the tackle. It's bad luck that he got hurt, but there is no point looking for a scapegoat, IMO.

GBXI

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im surprised so little is being made of the tackle. if it was a leinster or ulster club, there would be a different approach.

onus is on players to look after each other and regardless of it being accidental or not, the repercussions of it are very serious.

Such ****e being spouted here. It wasn't even a tackle. It was a slightly mis-timed attempt to block a shot as close to the boot as possible. Gooch got the shot away 1st and over the bar it went. Similar incidents happen in games regularly but this is being over-analysed because of how famous the player is.

DDC1990

Even worse, his knee is fractured as well.

As if the news couldn’t get any worse for Kerry football it has now emerged that Colm “Gooch” Cooper has also sustained a fracturing of his knee as well as rupturing his anterior cruciate ligament– thus requiring “stages of surgery” and an even longer process of rehabilitation.
Suddenly, a season-ending injury may well run the risk of being career-ending, depending on how well that process of rehabilitation goes. Cooper turns 31 in June, and is now unlikely to return to match fitness until well into 2015, or close to his 32nd birthday.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/fractured-knee-ensures-futher-gloom-for-kerry-s-colm-cooper-1.1696417

Mr. Incognito

I feel horrible for gooch.

Horrific injury and will rob him of two seasons and probably the twilight of his career.

However people looking to scapegoat the players are totally out of order.

It's football, there was no malice in it. That's the game. I'm sure the players feel bad enough as it is. People making out like they went out to "do" gooch need to get a grip and stop looking for blame where it should not be allocated.

BPKS

watching it live I thought the back chickened out of the block and kinda turned his body, don't think there was malice in it just a poor attempt at a block

Uncle Mclovin

There's no doubt that teams do intentionally go out to rough up players but I don't think any team would ever go out to intentionally injure a player.

As has been said numerous times it was just a clumsy effort at a tackle / blockdown on the quickest moving forward in the game. There was no malice in the challenge.

D'Agger

DDC1990 wrote: »

Where do you stop then? If you start disciplinary proceedings against guys for diving in for blocks, then lads aren't going to try blocks at all, and you are losing one of the greatest Defensive skills in our game.

You already see guys getting cards for mistimed shoulders.

You saw Cooper execute an excellent diving dispossession against Cork last year, only to see the referee give a free in.

I'm a forward, but at this stage is it any wonder Defence has come down to, putting a shítload of guys behind the ball and crowding around until the guy overcarries it. All the basic skills of blocking, dispossessing, shouldering have all given way to this rugby style ruck/maul situation.

It would be a shame to see cards given or disciplinary action taken for genuine attempts to defend, in my opinion.

Yes players have got hurt. Peter Harte got a nasty injury last year after a great Tom Cunniffe shoulder which was for me a perfectly timed hit. Its a physical game, and guys are going to get injuries, but I don't think that's reason enough to start tougher sanctions on mistimed defensive efforts.

While I wouldn't base soccer as something GAA should be looking at - but from this viewpoint - tackling is an art in their game, if a player mistimes a tackle and takes the player then it's a free and depending on the extent of the lateness/ferocity of the tackle, cards can be issued.

That's what I'm saying here. Blocks can be mistimed, it happens, and it is a physical game, but there's a fine line between attempting to block the ball and hurling your body in the general direction of the kicker - it's dangerous - especially from the side.

DDC1990 wrote: »

Why exactly?

Its nothing you don't see every weekend in any Gaa game.

It was late, but it was a big slow midfielder trying to block one of the quickest forwards in the game.

I was at the game and watched it back on TG4, I didn't feel at any stage that it was malicious. So why should a big deal be made of a mistimed tackle?

For example, if Cooper hadn't been injured then no-one would care about the tackle. It's bad luck that he got hurt, but there is no point looking for a scapegoat, IMO.

I would care about the tackle to be honest, the minute I saw it I knew Cooper was more than likely going off. This oh so typical Irish attitude of 'it wasn't malicious' doesn't wash so far as I'm concerned. The player attempted a tackle, he was late and he took out a player, he should be spoken to or cautioned at the very least. 'I didn't mean it' - is no longer something that should be tolerated - especially at that level of club football & intercounty football.

GBXI wrote: »

Such ****e being spouted here. It wasn't even a tackle. It was a slightly mis-timed attempt to block a shot as close to the boot as possible. Gooch got the shot away 1st and over the bar it went. Similar incidents happen in games regularly but this is being over-analysed because of how famous the player is.

It wasn't a tackle, and it wasn't a block - it's obvious the player was attempting a block, but he was late - so what was the end product because he didn't get the ball and took out a player in doing so - it was a reckless attempt at tackling and that's my opinion from seeing it on TG4 at the time.

Honestly I'm not over analysing it due to Cooper being famous or due to the fact that I'm a Kerryman. I'm dismayed that we won't see him in the championship this year moreso than anything.

Something that the increase in professionalism in the GAA has led to, from what I can see, is injuries and both injuries and the refereeing of games is something I've a large interest in.

Coopers injury has given me a platform to raise my query - do people think that mis-timed tackles on kickers should result in a caution/card - depending on severity of tackle & referees discretion?

BPKS wrote: »

watching it live I thought the back chickened out of the block and kinda turned his body, don't think there was malice in it just a poor attempt at a block

My point, again, is that regardless of malice, should the player have been disciplined for a poor attempt at a tackle? It's a difficult skill to block down somebody, but if you do it poorly, and you put the kicker at risk, then it's dangerous and it should be looked at.

keane2097

It's a point I often raise in regard to sports, but I don't think a distinction should really be made between "reckless" and "malicious" as they're equally as bad for the player on the receiving end.

In a sport like ours even moreso when every last player on the pitch has work to go to on Monday morning. If you're reckless, clumsy, whatever and put in a crap tackle that leaves a guy laid out for six months that's food on the table for a lot of people playing.

I don't think for a second that the tackle on Cooper was malicious, but I do think it's worth talking about the point D'Agger makes in terms of whether a player should have carte blanche to make as rubbish a tackle as he wants provided he can say "I wasn't trying to injure anyone" afterwards?

homerjay2005

im sorry lads, but that tackle deserves criticism and the player involved should take responsibility for it. im sure it was an accident, but that is irrelevent.

the black card was brought in for late tackles like that.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im sorry lads, but that tackle deserves criticism and the player involved should take responsibility for it. im sure it was an accident, but that is irrelevent.

the black card was brought in for late tackles like that.

It wasn't at all. It's so draining to see people constantly making these wrong assertions about what the black card is for.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

It wasn't at all. It's so draining to see people constantly making these wrong assertions about what the black card is for.

so you actually denying that a late tackle is one of the reasons (of which there are 5) or aims of the black cards?

the gaa better have a word with the refs here in Dublin so as any ref who has briefed us so far this year, have emphaised that late tackles are a black card offence, no matter how accidental they are.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so you actually denying that a late tackle is one of the reasons (of which there are 5) or aims of the black cards?

the gaa better have a word with the refs here in Dublin so as any ref who has briefed us so far this year, have emphaised that late tackles are a black card offence, no matter how accidental they are.

I'm telling you for a fact that a late tackle is not one of the five black card offences.

GBXI

D'Agger wrote: »

Something that the increase in professionalism in the GAA has led to, from what I can see, is injuries and both injuries and the refereeing of games is something I've a large interest in.

Coopers injury has given me a platform to raise my query - do people think that mis-timed tackles on kickers should result in a caution/card - depending on severity of tackle & referees discretion?



My point, again, is that regardless of malice, should the player have been disciplined for a poor attempt at a tackle? It's a difficult skill to block down somebody, but if you do it poorly, and you put the kicker at risk, then it's dangerous and it should be looked at.

Of course, if someone mis-times a tackle/block and the opposition player is fouled, then a free should be awarded and depending on the severity of the tackle/block, a yellow/black/red card should be handed out.

In this instance, if Cooper had missed, I'm guessing the ref would have brought it back for a free-in to Crokes, but he didn't miss, so Crokes gained from the advantage and we play on. Just because Cooper got injured it doesn't mean the lad should have been carded (yellow/black/red). It's a possible yellow for being late but that's it. Sure for all we know Cooper injured his knee on landing, not from the impact.

GBXI

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im sorry lads, but that tackle deserves criticism and the player involved should take responsibility for it. im sure it was an accident, but that is irrelevent.

the black card was brought in for late tackles like that.

Rubbish, McDonagh did not deserve to be removed from the game for that attempted block - it was at very most a yellow card.

Mitchels v Crokes was a very clean game and there was no need at any stage for a black card. Reilly, overall, reffed the game the correct way, with a few debatable calls thrown-in, but again you have that in every Gaelic match.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm telling you for a fact that a late tackle is not one of the five black card offences.

and i am telling you "for a fact" that you are wrong, 100% wrong.

Black Card Rule #3 - The Deliberate Body Collide

Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.

Ive seen 3 lads black carded so far this year and all 3 have been for the same offence - late tackle.