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Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167
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homerjay2005 wrote: »and i am telling you "for a fact" that you are wrong, 100% wrong.
Ive seen 3 lads black carded so far this year and all 3 have been for the same offence - late tackle.
There's a difference between trying to block a shot and mis-timing it, and deliberately body checking someone. Please don't become a ref!!0 -
homerjay2005 wrote: »and i am telling you "for a fact" that you are wrong, 100% wrong.
Ive seen 3 lads black carded so far this year and all 3 have been for the same offence - late tackle.
You might notice that the name of the offence is the "deliberate body collide" rather than the late tackle.
The reason it is called the "deliberate body collide" rule rather than the "late tackle" rule is because it's for deliberate body collisions, rather than attempted tackles.
You can watch David Colderick and Pat McEnaney explaining in detail what the rule is for in the video below, it should help you see how you've got the rule garbled.
A late tackle is covered, as it has always been, under yellow and red card rules.0 -
A lot of rubbish been talked on this tread again, didnt look like a bad tackle at all to me, looked a pure accident and the gouch just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, fellas looking to blame some one is cat0
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Of course, if someone mis-times a tackle/block and the opposition player is fouled, then a free should be awarded and depending on the severity of the tackle/block, a yellow/black/red card should be handed out.
In this instance, if Cooper had missed, I'm guessing the ref would have brought it back for a free-in to Crokes, but he didn't miss, so Crokes gained from the advantage and we play on. Just because Cooper got injured it doesn't mean the lad should have been carded (yellow/black/red). It's a possible yellow for being late but that's it. Sure for all we know Cooper injured his knee on landing, not from the impact.
The bits in bold are contradictory tbh - depending on the severity of the late tackle you say a card should be handed out, then you say just because Cooper was injured doesn't mean the player should have seen a card. The fact remains the player was late with a severe tackle, I think it was a yellow.
I wasn't aware that the black card includes late tackles though so realistically, to the letter of the law & taking referee discretion to one side, should the player have seen a black card? I stand by the fact that it should have been a yellow but open to hearing other interpretations of the rule.0 -
I wasn't aware that the black card includes late tackles though
It doesn't.
The words "deliberate body collision" and "late tackle" do not mean the same thing in any language I am aware of.
The deliberate body collision rule is for body checking runners off the ball to take them out of ongoing play. A late tackle is just a foul, covered by the yellow and red card rules as it always has been.0 -
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How is it the tackles on Aidan Walsh when he kicked second point of the match and Donal Newcombe when he kicks last point of first half are seen as perfectly acceptable yet the tackle on the gooch is seen as horrendous, disgusting.........
The are all the same kind of tackle yet the tackle on Gooch unfortunately led to an injury. Some people are watching with massive blinkers.
Plus the attempted punch on Danny Kirby right on camera, no one seems to want to say anything bad there.
Colm Cooper is a one of a kind legend and will be sorely missed from this years championship but hanging one person out to dry while ignoring other things is wrong. If gooch had not got injured, nothing would be said, the same way nothing is said about the other mentioned tackles0 -
It's a Kerry discussion board. What else would you expect but a blinkered view. I'm surprised that the tackle is being discussed. It's 4 days later and that's all that's being discussed in reference to the Crokes game! One very unfortunate tackle.redmosquito85 wrote: »How is it the tackles on Aidan Walsh when he kicked second point of the match and Donal Newcombe when he kicks last point of first half are seen as perfectly acceptable yet the tackle on the gooch is seen as horrendous, disgusting.........
The are all the same kind of tackle yet the tackle on Gooch unfortunately led to an injury. Some people are watching with massive blinkers.
Plus the attempted punch on Danny Kirby right on camera, no one seems to want to say anything bad there.
Colm Cooper is a one of a kind legend and will be sorely missed from this years championship but hanging one person out to dry while ignoring other things is wrong. If gooch had not got injured, nothing would be said, the same way nothing is said about the other mentioned tackles0 -
Typical Kerry fans, can't take a beating, if it was a fella from longford or lietrim what got injured do you think theyd be talking the same rubbish, hes injured get over it,0
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To be honest, (and I'm on McDonagh's side) you are going way overboard?redmosquito85 wrote: »How is it the tackles on Aidan Walsh when he kicked second point of the match and Donal Newcombe when he kicks last point of first half are seen as perfectly acceptable yet the tackle on the gooch is seen as horrendous, disgusting.........
The are all the same kind of tackle yet the tackle on Gooch unfortunately led to an injury. Some people are watching with massive blinkers.
Plus the attempted punch on Danny Kirby right on camera, no one seems to want to say anything bad there.
Colm Cooper is a one of a kind legend and will be sorely missed from this years championship but hanging one person out to dry while ignoring other things is wrong. If gooch had not got injured, nothing would be said, the same way nothing is said about the other mentioned tackles
I don't agree that a tackle like that has to be disciplined, but others on the board do and are well within their rights to discuss this.
I don't think anyone honestly thinks that it was a disgusting tackle. It was a horrendous outcome but thats hardly the same thing. People aren't looking to hang McDonagh out to dry, just some people believe that clumsy tackles are as bad as deliberate tackles at times. They are entitled to hold the view that McDonagh should have been disciplined. I'm sure if you showed footage of the Walsh/Newcombe incidents people could make their own minds up on those incidents as well.
Its not always A vs B here. You can disagree with a point without exagerating and making things up.0 -
Them words were used as a context to what's being said, look at Twitter, does Colm Parkinson alone not call it a horrible tackle. Conor Mortimer sticks his gob in as well agreeing (Calls it a terrible tackle). Keep reading through and you'll find other mentions. Nothing made up there.0
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redmosquito85 wrote: »Them words were used as a context to what's being said, look at Twitter, does Colm Parkinson alone not call it a horrible tackle. Conor Mortimer sticks his gob in as well agreeing. Keep reading through and you'll find other mentions. Nothing made up there.
I don't remember either of them being from Kerry.0 -
I don't remember either of them being from Kerry.
I didn't mention once that a Kerry man said it, I understand that this is a Kerry forum but I just glanced in and see all this discussion and made the point that some people are going completely over the top. If mods feel the need to remove then feel free but my point is the reaction has been crazy from some areas because of an injury and to whom it happened.0 -
redmosquito85 wrote: »I didn't mention once that a Kerry man said it, I understand that this is a Kerry forum but I just glanced in and see all this discussion and made the point that some people are going completely over the top. If mods feel the need to remove then feel free but my point is the reaction has been crazy from some areas because of an injury and to whom it happened.
It's just that you said some people were blinkered. I don't know what sort of blinkers you think Wooly and Mort have when it comes to Kerry football or Colm Cooper.
It's possible for people to have a different opinion to yours without them being irretrievably biased or otherwise deranged about the whole thing.0 -
You're out of order saying his views are "deranged". How does language like that help the debate? I'm sick of the whole talk about the tackle now and expected an awful lot better attitude from Kerry supporters. Kerry have so much success in footbal, an awful lot more than any other county, and it seems success brings with it greed. You can't have everything yer own way. Gooch was very unlucky but to date he's only had one serious injury, that was an eye injury against Monaghan, and he's only missed one championship game since 2002 against Antrim in 2009, that was for disciplinary reasons. He's had a very good run in terms of injuries. Other teams and other players aren't as fortunate. But , at least with other supporters, there's far less moaning and whinging!It's just that you said some people were blinkered. I don't know what sort of blinkers you think Wooly and Mort have when it comes to Kerry football or Colm Cooper.
It's possible for people to have a different opinion to yours without them being irretrievably biased or otherwise deranged about the whole thing.0 -
Archer3083 wrote: »You're out of order saying his views are "deranged". How does language like that help the debate? I'm sick of the whole talk about the tackle now and expected an awful lot better attitude from Kerry supporters. Kerry have so much success in footbal, an awful lot more than any other county, and it seems success brings with it greed. You can't have everything yer own way. Gooch was very unlucky but to date he's only had one serious injury, that was an eye injury against Monaghan, and he's only missed one championship game since 2002 against Antrim in 2009, that was for disciplinary reasons. He's had a very good run in terms of injuries. Other teams and other players aren't as fortunate. But , at least with other supporters, there's far less moaning and whinging!
You badly misread my post I suspect.0 -
A bit of optimism from a man who walks the walk:http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2014/0218/505104-oconnor-kerry-can-prosper-without-cooper/
Despite Gooch's injury I think we have plenty of very good forwards but have more concerns in the back line. Will be interesting to see if and how aidan o mahony will be used..... if he was fit and hungry he'd add steel and experience at full back and cover for some of kielys lapses under the high ball.
Honestly I think Jack is off his head if they thinks the likes of Sheehan and Donaghey are the people to step up.
Donaghey has had one good game since his injury spell around 2008.
And Sheehan's best days were at midfield in 2011, but since then he has had injuries and has struggled with his fitness when attempting to get back.
And I'm not convinced about how good the Kerry forwards are now that Gooch is out.
Gooch delivered incredible consistency, you always knew what you would get from him.
I don't think you can really same the same about the rest.
James O' Donoughe looks to be a good prospect all right but the likes of BJK, Ciaran O' Leary and Paddy Cutrain have hardly set the world alight.
Declan O' Sullivan has been regressing over the past few years, and Darran has had problems with injury also.
Remember also that Gavin who was a started in 2013 is now gone.
The loss of Cooper could expose a lot of guys on this team, the option of giving it to Gooch, who you know will do something good with it is now gone.0 -
Archer3083 wrote: »Apologies. I've did misread your post, but I'm sticking with the rest of my post. I'm really sick of the talk about the tackle now. I'm sick of the whinging and moaning. Normally this is a great thread if you're interested in Kerry GAA, but enough is enough about the tackle. Does it really matter who made the tackle? Gooch is injured, no amount of talk will change that. It's time to move the discussion on...
I only realised just there now that because of the fracture on the knee it will delay his rehab by 2-3 months because they'll have to wait for the fracture to heal before they can operate. That's adding insult to injury. And that is incredibly unlucky for Gooch.
The talk had moved on for the most part to a discussion on the black card and a more general debate on whether reckless tackling is something that needs to be looked at within the game before three or four people came along to tell us what we should be talking about.
On another note, it's been all of a day and a half since we found out our most important player and the one of if not the best we've ever produced has an injury that could well mean he might never play again, so while I deeply regret your boredom with the topic, I think it's probably a bit much to ask that the Kerry thread stops talking about it just to suit your own sensibilities.0 -
Interesting question. Would Galvin have retired if Gooch got injured before the Dublin league game, or, alternatively, would Fitzmaurice have moved heaven and earth to persuade Galvin to stay for one more campaign? If I was Fitzmaurice, I would be thinking of asking Galvin to come back. He can't have missed out on that much training in 2 weeks. He might not be as good as he was but he's a leader, and he would be a huge advantage in the dressing room, and he would make a big contribution if he was brought on in games with 20 mins to go to steady the ship, and close games out.0
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Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Honestly I think Jack is off his head if they thinks the likes of Sheehan and Donaghey are the people to step up.
Donaghey has had one good game since his injury spell around 2008.
And Sheehan's best days were at midfield in 2011, but since then he has had injuries and has struggled with his fitness when attempting to get back.
And I'm not convinced about how good the Kerry forwards are now that Gooch is out.
Gooch delivered incredible consistency, you always knew what you would get from him.
I don't think you can really same the same about the rest.
James O' Donoughe looks to be a good prospect all right but the likes of BJK, Ciaran O' Leary and Paddy Cutrain have hardly set the world alight.
Declan O' Sullivan has been regressing over the past few years, and Darran has had problems with injury also.
Remember also that Gavin who was a started in 2013 is now gone.
The loss of Cooper could expose a lot of guys on this team, the option of giving it to Gooch, who you know will do something good with it is now gone.
Donaghy and Mahony I think you can forget about being the drive behind any kick on in Kerry in Gooch's absence.
Much more interested in the reaction of the likes of Fitzgerald, Crowley, James O'Donaghue who will need to step up.0 -
Did you really need to edit your post to have a pot shot at me? Mature? All I'm saying is that since the game there hasn't been one bit of serious analysis of that game. It's all been about that tackle. There has been more said about who committed the tackle, incidentally I'm not sure anyone can agree who actually made the block. Why hasn't there been a discussion of Crokes performance. Why is it that Crokes have stumbled again outside Munster? Is it true that Crokes have a soft underbelly? Are they simply not good enough? Why do Crokes players lack consistency? Will they ever win an All-Ireland with this team? Are Crokes a victim of a poor county and Munster championship, they have no real competition to test them in Kerry. Never mind all those valid questions! Let's talk about the tackle some moreThe talk had moved on for the most part to a discussion on the black card and a more general debate on whether reckless tackling is something that needs to be looked at within the game before three or four people came along to tell us what we should be talking about.
On another note, it's been all of a day and a half since we found out our most important player and the one of if not the best we've ever produced has an injury that could well mean he might never play again, so while I deeply regret your boredom with the topic, I think it's probably a bit much to ask that the Kerry thread stops talking about it just to suit your own sensibilities.0 -
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This is the Kerry Gaa discussion thread, where posters discuss Kerry Gaa.Archer3083 wrote: »Did you really need to edit your post to have a pot shot at me? Mature? All I'm saying is that since the game there hasn't been one bit of serious analysis of that game. It's all been about that tackle. There has been more said about who committed the tackle, incidentally I'm not sure anyone can agree who actually made the block. Why hasn't there been a discussion of Crokes performance. Why is it that Crokes have stumbled again outside Munster? Is it true that Crokes have a soft underbelly? Are they simply not good enough? Why do Crokes players lack consistency? Will they ever win an All-Ireland with this team? Are Crokes a victim of a poor county and Munster championship, they have no real competition to test them in Kerry. Never mind all those valid questions! Let's talk about the tackle some more
There was plenty said about Crokes and Castlebar in the relevant thread, the Club Championship thread.
The funny thing is that you are complaining about "whinging and moaning" but you are the only one whinging and moaning in the thread, whether its falsly accusing another poster of commenting on another posters style, whinging about Kerry, whinging about imaginary potshots being taken at you, whinging that you didn't get your pound of flesh and get a chance to dissect and take apart this terribly soft Crokes team.
If you don't like whats being discussed, there are plenty of other topics being discussed on this forum, and other forums.
Everyone is free to post here, and likewise everyone is free not to post here. No point complaining about the topics at hand.
EDIT: I'm in danger of backseat modding so i'll take a step back. Goodnight all.0 -
I think if you read my previous posts you'd realise I don't think Crokes have a soft underbelly. I said it was a ridiculous accusation that appeared in the Examiner on Saturday in an interview with Oisín McConville. Check your facts first!This is the Kerry Gaa discussion thread, where posters discuss Kerry Gaa.
There was plenty said about Crokes and Castlebar in the relevant thread, the Club Championship thread.
The funny thing is that you are complaining about "whinging and moaning" but you are the only one whinging and moaning in the thread, whether its falsly accusing another poster of commenting on another posters style, whinging about Kerry, whinging about imaginary potshots being taken at you, whinging that you didn't get your pound of flesh and get a chance to dissect and take apart this terribly soft Crokes team.
If you don't like whats being discussed, there are plenty of other topics being discussed on this forum, and other forums.
Everyone is free to post here, and likewise everyone is free not to post here. No point complaining about the topics at hand.
EDIT: I'm in danger of backseat modding so i'll take a step back. Goodnight all.0 -
The bits in bold are contradictory tbh - depending on the severity of the late tackle you say a card should be handed out, then you say just because Cooper was injured doesn't mean the player should have seen a card. The fact remains the player was late with a severe tackle, I think it was a yellow.
I wasn't aware that the black card includes late tackles though so realistically, to the letter of the law & taking referee discretion to one side, should the player have seen a black card? I stand by the fact that it should have been a yellow but open to hearing other interpretations of the rule.
Ah Christ, it wasn't a severe tackle at all. The bits in bold are not contradictory, the severity of the tackle is the severity of the tackle, we don't know how Cooper got injured, was it impact or landing, either way the tackle is one you see regularly in games - usually resulting in a free and possible yellow/red card if it's very late/dangerous.
By the way, the black card doesn't include late tackles - it's there for cynical play, e.g. third man tackles.0 -
Ah Christ, it wasn't a severe tackle at all. The bits in bold are not contradictory, the severity of the tackle is the severity of the tackle, we don't know how Cooper got injured, was it impact or landing, either way the tackle is one you see regularly in games - usually resulting in a free and possible yellow/red card if it's very late/dangerous.
By the way, the black card doesn't include late tackles - it's there for cynical play, e.g. third man tackles.
Cooper was injured as a result of the tackle - directly or indirectly (landing), because he was knocked by the tackle. That tackle doesn't go in on him, he's slotted a point and he's jogging back to his centre forward berth. Simple as.
I'm not baying for the blood of the back who made the tackle here, I'm certainly not looking for somebody to blame for Coopers injury - I was looking at an isolated incident and asking, if in future, should tackles on a kicker be dealt with as severely as in rugby or soccer - it's a legitimate question to ask I would have thought, and it's something I hold interest in as I've taken a few potentially dangerous tackles while kicking before - I think it's something that should be discussed. Coopers injury was merely a platform to raise the query, given his profile. I obviously didn't convey this well enough seeing as we've been treated to the usual 'Kerry are bad losers' 'it's been days get over it' attitude that we're so frequently subjected to in these parts.
You say you regularly see yellows/reds for those types of late tackles - fair enough. That said, they're rarely actioned upon by referees - that's just from my own experience, that's why I wanted to discuss the rule.
As per the calls from other posters to discuss the Crokes game - there's not much to say really. They owned the ball for large chunks but never seemed to break at pace, allowing Castlebar to get numbers back and organize. They then lost Cooper after 20minutes which was not only a loss to Crokes, but a large boost for Castlebar. In the end Crokes needed to rally back and they simply weren't able to stem the tide. Castlebar well worthy winners in the end.0 -
Cooper was injured as a result of the tackle - directly or indirectly (landing), because he was knocked by the tackle. That tackle doesn't go in on him, he's slotted a point and he's jogging back to his centre forward berth. Simple as.
I'm not baying for the blood of the back who made the tackle here, I'm certainly not looking for somebody to blame for Coopers injury - I was looking at an isolated incident and asking, if in future, should tackles on a kicker be dealt with as severely as in rugby or soccer - it's a legitimate question to ask I would have thought, and it's something I hold interest in as I've taken a few potentially dangerous tackles while kicking before - I think it's something that should be discussed. Coopers injury was merely a platform to raise the query, given his profile. I obviously didn't convey this well enough seeing as we've been treated to the usual 'Kerry are bad losers' 'it's been days get over it' attitude that we're so frequently subjected to in these parts.
You say you regularly see yellows/reds for those types of late tackles - fair enough. That said, they're rarely actioned upon by referees - that's just from my own experience, that's why I wanted to discuss the rule.
As per the calls from other posters to discuss the Crokes game - there's not much to say really. They owned the ball for large chunks but never seemed to break at pace, allowing Castlebar to get numbers back and organize. They then lost Cooper after 20minutes which was not only a loss to Crokes, but a large boost for Castlebar. In the end Crokes needed to rally back and they simply weren't able to stem the tide. Castlebar well worthy winners in the end.
Again it's up to the ref. If the tackle is late/dangerous then you'd hope the ref will make the correct decision. I don't think it requires a rule change or looking at more closely just because Cooper got injured. Can't speak about your experience but of all the things the GAA could do with changing, I'd say late tackles on the kicker are closer to the bottom than top.
I think tactically Castlebar were very good on Saturday. I thought Crokes fought really well and looked like they had the more natural scorers (as Kerry teams are want to do!!) but Castlebar just closed out the game really well. Great game of football I have to say.0 -
Archer3083 wrote: »Did you really need to edit your post to have a pot shot at me? Mature? All I'm saying is that since the game there hasn't been one bit of serious analysis of that game. It's all been about that tackle. There has been more said about who committed the tackle, incidentally I'm not sure anyone can agree who actually made the block. Why hasn't there been a discussion of Crokes performance. Why is it that Crokes have stumbled again outside Munster? Is it true that Crokes have a soft underbelly? Are they simply not good enough? Why do Crokes players lack consistency? Will they ever win an All-Ireland with this team? Are Crokes a victim of a poor county and Munster championship, they have no real competition to test them in Kerry. Never mind all those valid questions! Let's talk about the tackle some more
That's not "all you're saying" at all. You're saying you're bored of talking about Gooch's injury two days after it happened. A lot of people are going to be talking about it for a long time and you may get used to it.
There is reams of discussion about Castlebar's utterly deserved win over Crokes, to be honest it's not particularly interesting to talk about to me at least as one team dominated on the pitch, sideline and won easily and deservedly.
D'Agger has made some excellent posts in the last two days on the general topic of whether tackles which are made without due regard for the safety of the opposition are something which need to be sanctioned against in Gaelic football. If you find that boring then that's a shame.0 -
On the late tackles issue, its interesting to look at other sports and their rules.
In Rugby a lot of tackles go in after the ball has been laid off, but they are not penalized unless its clearly late. "The tackler was committed" is usually the phrase that is used. However, if there is a gap of over a second from when the ball is released and the tackle going in then that is penalized and a card is usually given.
In American Football late hits on the QB are subject to a "two steps" rule. If the QB releases the ball and the tackler takes two steps and then follows through with the tackle then thats a penalty.
In Soccer, it's a little tougher. Any sort of tackle that contacts the man and not the ball is called as a free kick. Like the rugby, anything after a second seems to get a yellow card.
These are all cases where legitimate tackles are made, but are late, much like an attempt to block, but being late.
I'd argue that the timeframe between McDonagh's attempted block and Cooper kicking the score would have been within the second, and certainly inside "two steps", and wouldn't warrant a card/penalty in these sports (apart from maybe soccer, where guys are getting Carded for all sorts these days.)0 -
On the late tackles issue, its interesting to look at other sports and their rules.
In Rugby a lot of tackles go in after the ball has been laid off, but they are not penalized unless its clearly late. "The tackler was committed" is usually the phrase that is used. However, if there is a gap of over a second from when the ball is released and the tackle going in then that is penalized and a card is usually given.
In American Football late hits on the QB are subject to a "two steps" rule. If the QB releases the ball and the tackler takes two steps and then follows through with the tackle then thats a penalty.
In Soccer, it's a little tougher. Any sort of tackle that contacts the man and not the ball is called as a free kick. Like the rugby, anything after a second seems to get a yellow card.
These are all cases where legitimate tackles are made, but are late, much like an attempt to block, but being late.
I'd argue that the timeframe between McDonagh's attempted block and Cooper kicking the score would have been within the second, and certainly inside "two steps", and wouldn't warrant a card/penalty in these sports (apart from maybe soccer, where guys are getting Carded for all sorts these days.)
The flip side of that is the idea of "duty of care" to the opposition in rugby in instances where your tackle has potential to do serious damage, e.g. spear tackles. You're free to lift the player off the ground, but you damn well better make sure you can bring him back down to it safely or you're gone. In American Football, there's also a rule where you can't tackle a QB below the knees, because of the potential to cause serious injury.
I think this is a good attitude to have - you're quite entitled to make a particular tackle, but if it has potential to do damage you better make damn sure that you get it right.
It's a bit like the black card really - there were many incidents you would see over the years where a defender would go into a tackle that in all likelihood was going to end up being a foul, but because they had some small chance of dispossessing the opposition legally and a free was such a small punishment there was really no downside to them blundering into it and ending up pulling a man to the ground.
When you legislate against this sort of thing it cuts it right out. You're telling the guy he's still quite entitled to take that chance of tackling if he fancies it, but he better get it right because if he doesn't he's gone. Upshot is the defender has to be much more careful about the timing of his tackling and not just drag a guy down because there was a small chance it would work and there was no penalty if it didn't.
Similarly in this sort of situation, a player might have little chance of making the block, but the ball is going to go over the bar regardless so he might as well hurl himself towards the feet of the guy kicking because there's no downside for him, regardless of the fact that for the opponent a guy hurling himself missile-like towards your lower body might have a very big downside indeed.0 -
You're right about the rules in rugby - where that rule applies is open play when moving the ball and laying it off. If I handpass off a ball and a guy is coming in on me, then I'll put up the shoulder and protect myself, often in this situation there'll be a coming together and play continues - no issues there, unless the ball is long gone and a player is hoofed into, then it's late and a free. I think GAA has that covered well and it's normally something you see officiated quite well - fairly certain that kind of tackle falls under the 3rd man tackle and is a black card - if I'm wrong on that by all means clarify for me.On the late tackles issue, its interesting to look at other sports and their rules.
In Rugby a lot of tackles go in after the ball has been laid off, but they are not penalized unless its clearly late. "The tackler was committed" is usually the phrase that is used. However, if there is a gap of over a second from when the ball is released and the tackle going in then that is penalized and a card is usually given.
In American Football late hits on the QB are subject to a "two steps" rule. If the QB releases the ball and the tackler takes two steps and then follows through with the tackle then thats a penalty.
In Soccer, it's a little tougher. Any sort of tackle that contacts the man and not the ball is called as a free kick. Like the rugby, anything after a second seems to get a yellow card.
These are all cases where legitimate tackles are made, but are late, much like an attempt to block, but being late.
I'd argue that the timeframe between McDonagh's attempted block and Cooper kicking the score would have been within the second, and certainly inside "two steps", and wouldn't warrant a card/penalty in these sports (apart from maybe soccer, where guys are getting Carded for all sorts these days.)
In rugby, any late hit on a kicker is dealt with seriously - you say the same stringent application of the rule for players tackled in the air - those two points are when players are at their most vunerable from open play. As you've said with the Cooper tackle - the player is late, but his momentum is probably what carries him through, I think a user said he turned his body slightly which would suggest that he's trying to protect himself more than anything - it's up to the referee to decide if the player has tried to minimize contact or has followed through with a late tackle. Either way, I still believe it was a yellow for being clumsy and late (I'll state here for the record that I'm saying this with resepct to my interpretation of the rules, not because it was Colm Cooper who got hit)
It's a difficult one but it's certainly something I'll be keeping an eye out for in Championship.0 -
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You are right about Rugby protecting players when they are most vunerable.You're right about the rules in rugby - where that rule applies is open play when moving the ball and laying it off. If I handpass off a ball and a guy is coming in on me, then I'll put up the shoulder and protect myself, often in this situation there'll be a coming together and play continues - no issues there, unless the ball is long gone and a player is hoofed into, then it's late and a free. I think GAA has that covered well and it's normally something you see officiated quite well - fairly certain that kind of tackle falls under the 3rd man tackle and is a black card - if I'm wrong on that by all means clarify for me.
In rugby, any late hit on a kicker is dealt with seriously - you say the same stringent application of the rule for players tackled in the air - those two points are when players are at their most vunerable from open play. As you've said with the Cooper tackle - the player is late, but his momentum is probably what carries him through, I think a user said he turned his body slightly which would suggest that he's trying to protect himself more than anything - it's up to the referee to decide if the player has tried to minimize contact or has followed through with a late tackle. Either way, I still believe it was a yellow for being clumsy and late (I'll state here for the record that I'm saying this with resepct to my interpretation of the rules, not because it was Colm Cooper who got hit)
It's a difficult one but it's certainly something I'll be keeping an eye out for in Championship.
Same goes for the NFL where "defenceless receivers" (players exposed going for a catch) cannot be hit around the head area, even accidentally. Most hits to the heads of defenceless receivers tend to be accidental now, but they are still penalized for the protection of the players that are most at risk. Its causing players to adapt their game, and players are now hitting at chest height, where there is more protection, which is safer for all players involved.
In Gaa, the man in the air and the man kicking the ball are the most vunerable. It would be nice to see them protected, but hopefully in a way that doesn't discourage genuine attempts to block the ball, a skill that is fading out of the game already.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR-JNtk5GrI
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