Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

ShamoBuc

Stinicker wrote: »

Kerry will not beat either Cork or Tyrone, this team is headed to DIV 2.

I'm finding it hard not to agree with you.


Kildare went 7 pts up in the first 10 mins and were 5 up before 2 very late goals cost them today, I think at home they will beat Kerry.

Amprodude

I won't say Kerry are relegated until they actually get relegated. They are the only team in Ireland that would pull it out of the bag in some shape or form. Another loss though and they would be in serious trouble. Kildare and Tyrone are good teams but I do think they will beat Tyrone. Kildare is where their future will be decided. They could beat Kildare too. Westmeath won't beat Kerry and as a Corkman I wouldn't be too confident that our boys will send ye down to division 2. They had a chance last year of doing it and failed. Cuthberts mentality might be different though, we wait and see.

yop

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I'm finding it hard not to agree with you.


Kildare went 7 pts up in the first 10 mins and were 5 up before 2 very late goals cost them today, I think at home they will beat Kerry.

But remember this is Kildare, when the pressure comes on year on year they haven't had it in the tank.
Today was a shambles from them, 1min 35 seconds left including the 1 minute of injury time and they were 5 points up! Yet lose!!!! Mad stuff.

thinkstoomuch1

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/darragh-kerry-u21-1340587-Mar2014/

Fr Tod Umptious

Archer3083 wrote: »

Do you honestly think Cork are going to lose their next 4 games in the league. The only reason I raised the point of the Cork game on April 6th is that it could be very like the Tyrone game last year. Tyrone took their eye off the ball that day. If Tyrone had to win that game to stay in Division 1 then Kerry would never have got a result. Anyway, I actually can't see it coming down to the Cork game for Kerry to get relegated. I think Kildare will have too much in Newbridge for Kerry. That's the important game.

The league is unpredictable, there is a possibility that they could loose them all.

Home to Derry and Tyrone, away to Mayo and Kerry, nothing straight forward there.

Anyway back to Kerry.
Good point brought up by Billy O' Shea and Ambrose on Radio Kerry yesterday was why do Kerry continue to fade badly in the 2nd half of games.
Are they not fit enough ?
Are they not physically strong ?

It's been going on for a few years now and you would have though they would have found the answer at this stage.

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The league is unpredictable, there is a possibility that they could loose them all.

Home to Derry and Tyrone, away to Mayo and Kerry, nothing straight forward there.

Anyway back to Kerry.
Good point brought up by Billy O' Shea and Ambrose on Radio Kerry yesterday was why do Kerry continue to fade badly in the 2nd half of games.
Are they not fit enough ?
Are they not physically strong ?

It's been going on for a few years now and you would have though they would have found the answer at this stage.

It's not a physical issue at all IMO, it's a tactical one. When Mayo, Dublin etc bring on subs the subs slot into the gameplan - a Mayo player coming into the half-forward line in the second half knows what the Mayo half-forward is meant to do, how he's meant to fit in.

When Kerry makes changes it tends to be because the gameplan has started to malfunction, but it's never to switch to a plan B - it's just a case of "we're starting to struggle here - X might help", e.g. bringing Buckley on at half-forward yesterday.

Buckley at half-forward isn't part of any gameplan change, it's just that we're starting to struggle on kickouts to win the ball and sure who knows he might catch a few balls.

Same thing happens with all our substitutions, guys are sent in off the cuff, the gameplan disintegrates and guys are just playing off their own hymn sheet, taking on potshots etc.

Was the same in the semi-final last year against Dublin - they're changes were targeted, had a rationale and a goal, ours were just in response to theirs because we were starting to struggle and sure we have to try something.

This is a Kerry problem, certainly not a Cian O'Neill one. I don't believe for a second the lads playing yesterday - who were almost all young players, plus we made six subs - were more tired than a Mayo side who are only a month back from their team holiday. It's a problem with managements being used to the being good enough for Plan A to always work. When we've come up against teams close to our quality with very good management we've invariably lost for a decade, putting that down to a lack of fitness in successive camps by different groups of players under different fitness coaches is looking for the easy answers.

Radio5

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/darragh-kerry-u21-1340587-Mar2014/

Whatever about the seniors, Kerry are in dire need of a win on March 12th.

homerjay2005

weve been fading out of games for the past 15+ years....we go on a burst and try to kill off teams and normally we do it from 40-55 minutes, but sometimes its earlier. wind plays a massive difference in some games and this cannot be underestimated.

we led Cork by an absolute huge score in 2000 and almost got pegged back, we led Dublin by big margin in 2001 and got dragged to a replay.

lets not forget our collapse in the 2002 all ireland and in 2003 against Roscommon when we were lucky that time ran out. people are blaming this on fitness and Cian O Neill when its a historical thing.

Poor_old_gill

homerjay2005 wrote: »

weve been fading out of games for the past 15+ years....we go on a burst and try to kill off teams and normally we do it from 40-55 minutes, but sometimes its earlier. wind plays a massive difference in some games and this cannot be underestimated.

we led Cork by an absolute huge score in 2000 and almost got pegged back, we led Dublin by big margin in 2001 and got dragged to a replay.

lets not forget our collapse in the 2002 all ireland and in 2003 against Roscommon when we were lucky that time ran out. people are blaming this on fitness and Cian O Neill when its a historical thing.

While I do agree with you that it has a historical element to it- your argument makes his position in the backroom staff unnecessary.

If it is always going to be the case and if he cant possibly rectify it then there is no need to employ him.
If it is something that can be rectified- then he isnt doing it

keane2097

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

While I do agree with you that it has a historical element to it- your argument makes his position in the backroom staff unnecessary.

If it is always going to be the case and if he cant possibly rectify it then there is no need to employ him.
If it is something that can be rectified- then he isnt doing it

The fact that we're falling apart tactically rather than physically in the last quarter for the last ten years doesn't mean you don't need someone to get the team into top class physical shape.

Without someone quality in O'Neill's position you end up with two problems in the last quarter instead of the one we already have.

Poor_old_gill

keane2097 wrote: »

The fact that we're falling apart tactically rather than physically in the last quarter for the last ten years doesn't mean you don't need someone to get the team into top class physical shape.

Without someone quality in O'Neill's position you end up with two problems in the last quarter instead of the one we already have.

I dont doubt that tactically we have been poor on several occasions- I just think that argument put forward that this would always be a problem and that it is in no way related to physical conditioning is not a valid one.

The team could be in better shape-they lack power and some guys were out on their feet yesterday with 15 mins to go.

The tactics are equally as worrying

keane2097

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I dont doubt that tactically we have been poor on several occasions- I just think that argument put forward that this would always be a problem and that it is in no way related to physical conditioning is not a valid one.

The team could be in better shape-they lack power and some guys were out on their feet yesterday with 15 mins to go.

The tactics are equally as worrying

Which guys did you think were out on their feet?

Poor_old_gill

keane2097 wrote: »

Which guys did you think were out on their feet?

AOM, BJK, Mark Griffin were probably the 3 biggest culprits.
Marc O Se has an excuse due to lack of training.

As I said its not the only problem but the inevitable drop off intensity is an issue that we must try address.
There is a mental element to it I accept- but to deny that there is a physical element is a bit ridiculous

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

Which guys did you think were out on their feet?

For me, Crowley, Casey, James O'Donaghue, Marc and Donnacha all looked out on their feet at various stages.

Daithí at one stage couldn't get himself in support of Cox in the corner quick enough, and even when he did, he kicked a poor shot wide. I have to say it was an impressive debut from him overall, and he's certainly earned the jersey next week. He tackled hard, he chased back, he took his man on well. Nothing showstopping but impressive none the less.

Anyway I wouldnt worry about lads looking out on their feet. All those Kerry forwards are lads that need fast ground for their running.
The pitch held up well, but I walked on it afterwards and it was like walking on Marshmallows. You felt like you were going to sink down, but the surface just about held together. Very heavy for lads to run on. JOD in particular struggled to run on it, and lads were misjudging the hop of the ball all game.

DDC1990

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=210876&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Noel O'Leary and Vince Casey have been asked to step down from the Crokes.

Right call IMO.

ciarriaithuaidh

Granted, people are unhappy that we're losing games and would like us to have better results, so would I..but some of the **** being bandied around the place about the team and management is just ridiculous. Not being helped by clueless people with an audience like Weeshie and other so called pundits in the media of course.

Were these people who are now saying we're doomed saying the same thing when we were relegated to a division where we ended up playing the mighty London and Leitrim in 2002? I doubt it..and the fact that Kerry went on to play some of the best football I have seen them play in my lifetime that year during the summer just goes to prove the point that League football is League football.

There IS a worry about the lack of panel strength, but when you consider that:
Jonathan Lyne, Kieran O’Leary, Bryan Sheehan, Darran O’Sullivan, Kieran Donaghy, Killian Young and Declan O'Sullivan are yet to come back and Gooch just got injured 2 weeks ago that is hardly a huge surprise.

FWIW, I responded to Keane mentioning AOM pre-match as a worry..but having watched the game Sunday I'd probably agree with Keane now. He looked well off the pace, mentally as much as anything.

For me, and Keane mentioned it also..and I'm like a broken record on this, but if you're analysing the problems with the team right now, you should start literally with No.1, because I think Kealy's performances have been largely shocking. Driving the ball over the line when playing with a storm of a wind is just totally inexcusable. Kelly may not be the solution but did ok against Derry and in Sigerson as part of a winning team that conceeded 2 goals in their 4 games..none in semi or final???

Kerrydude1981

DDC1990 wrote: »

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=210876&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Noel O'Leary and Vince Casey have been asked to step down from the Crokes.

Right call IMO.

Wonder who is going to take over from them?

Pat O Shea?? Has he managed Crokes in the past?

Yellowblackbird

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Wonder who is going to take over from them?

The Gooch.

Mr. Incognito

DDC1990 wrote: »

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=210876&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Noel O'Leary and Vince Casey have been asked to step down from the Crokes.

Right call IMO.

That is sheer stupidity. 2 munster championships and excellent crokes attitude after gooch went off and they gave it their all.

Same idiots running clubs that know f all about football.

DDC1990

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That is sheer stupidity. 2 munster championships and excellent crokes attitude after gooch went off and they gave it their all.

Same idiots running clubs that know f all about football.

From my point of view, they have brought Crokes as far as they can.

They were under-prepared for the Castlebar game, didn't seem to have gameplanned for the Castlebar wing-backs and then had no plan B when needed.

They have done ok, but they inherited a dominant team, and haven't achieved the goal they have set for themselves the last two years, and as such I think its the right decision.

Axel Lamp

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That is sheer stupidity. 2 munster championships and excellent crokes attitude after gooch went off and they gave it their all.

Same idiots running clubs that know f all about football.

It was the players that wanted them gone.

ciarriaithuaidh

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That is sheer stupidity. 2 munster championships and excellent crokes attitude after gooch went off and they gave it their all.

Same idiots running clubs that know f all about football.

:rolleyes: They have embarassed themselves and the club several times in recent years and the latest episode from O'Leary was probably the final straw. They have made some ridiculous changes during major games over the last few years and to be quite honest, while the players must take their share of the blame for falling short of ultimate honours, there's little doubt in my mind that this is the right move for Crokes going forward.

Seems players want Pat O'Shea back in, which would be a decent move probably. Only thing there is that his son is currently involved and pushing for a place on the team..that's always a recipe for lost dressingrooms right there..

homerjay2005

re kerry fade out, panel quality and age of our starting 15 has as much to do with it as anything.

Dublin had a much stronger bench (as did Cork in killarney) than us. one or two of the subs in September will haunt me for years, they didnt need to be made and cost us.

DDC1990

If you are referring to Sherwood, I'll agree that it didn't work, but it was planned all week.

Sherwood was flying in training, and had put his hand up for the spot ahead of McGuire. Unfortunately training in Killarney and 82,000 in Croke Park are different things, and McGuire might have been a better option. We don't know. McGuire might have made the same mistakes.

In terms of Eamonn picking guys in form in training, that sends out a good message, even if the odd one doesn't work out for you on the day.

(All this info comes from an interview back in January in the Examiner: A good read by all accounts.)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0127/ireland/anatomy-of-a-close-run-thing-256634.html

Four minutes from the end of the game, Eamonn Fitzmaurice sent for Jack Sherwood from the Firies club. Sherwood had been tagged from the beginning of the year as one of two or three freshmen ready to earn a low numbered jersey for the Championship. But successive, unlucky injuries pockmarked his season. However, the Kerry coach always knew the left-footer from Farranfore would be coming on against the Dubs, despite missing most of the season. He had told the callow defender, but no-one else, as much the week before. When Kevin McManamon was sent for by Jim Gavin, Kerry readied their counter-measure.

"What Dublin tend to do with McManamon is get him on someone with tired legs, giving him the best chance to do damage. So we were ready to introduce a player to mark him, and that player was Jack Sherwood, because he was playing out of his skin in training."

Things didn’t work out that day for Sherwood. He was blinded by the Broadway lights of a scalding semi-final in front of 80,000 rabid spectators with everything on the line as the game moved into its final acts. Who wouldn’t be? He never got into his game stride. How could he? Sherwood wasn’t the reason Kerry lost that memorable match, but when the forensic lab that is Kingdom football opinion went searching for cause, it got mentioned. Were management hasty in picking him, not least when they drafted a readymade replacement defender into the squad the morning of the semi-final?

Archer3083

I think this year might be the year for young players like Jack Sherwood, Jonathan Lyne and Cox to shine. Kerry has had 4 players leave the panel this year, Eoin Brosnan, Tomás Ó Sé and Paul Galvin due to retirement, and Gooch was unfortunately due to injury. These young lads will know this year that a position is up for grabs, theirs for the taking, and they'll also know that if they make a mistake in a game, Fitzmaurice won't be able to sub in one of the experienced players. Hopefully, these guys will grow in confidence, and respond this year. JBM did something similar when he took over the Cork hurlers, he got rid of a good few established players, and the younger lads stepped up to the mark. The best example being Anthony Nash. So, I think something similar will happen with Kerry this year.

premierstone

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think this year might be the year for young players like Jack Sherwood, Jonathan Lyne and Cox to shine. Kerry has had 4 players leave the panel this year, Eoin Brosnan, Tomás Ó Sé and Paul Galvin due to retirement, and Gooch was unfortunately due to injury. These young lads will know this year that a position is up for grabs, theirs for the taking, and they'll also know that if they make a mistake in a game, Fitzmaurice won't be able to sub in one of the experienced players. Hopefully, these guys will grow in confidence, and respond this year. JBM did something similar when he took over the Cork hurlers, he got rid of a good few established players, and the younger lads stepped up to the mark. The best example being Anthony Nash. So, I think something similar will happen with Kerry this year.

Nash is 29 and had been in the Cork squad since he was 21, agree with your overall point though.

Fr Tod Umptious

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think this year might be the year for young players like Jack Sherwood, Jonathan Lyne and Cox to shine. Kerry has had 4 players leave the panel this year, Eoin Brosnan, Tomás Ó Sé and Paul Galvin due to retirement, and Gooch was unfortunately due to injury. These young lads will know this year that a position is up for grabs, theirs for the taking, and they'll also know that if they make a mistake in a game, Fitzmaurice won't be able to sub in one of the experienced players. Hopefully, these guys will grow in confidence, and respond this year. JBM did something similar when he took over the Cork hurlers, he got rid of a good few established players, and the younger lads stepped up to the mark. The best example being Anthony Nash. So, I think something similar will happen with Kerry this year.

It will not happen as long as the manager continues to start the likes of Marc O Se and Aidan O Mahoney etc over younger guys in league games.

ciarriaithuaidh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It will not happen as long as the manager continues to start the likes of Marc O Se and Aidan O Mahoney etc over younger guys in league games.

Marc and Aidan need games if they are to get up to speed...that was first game of the year for Marc on Sunday. Aidan was poor, but will give him time. I thought he was doign well in Dublin game before black card.

Sherwood for example played 3 McGrath cup games and 2 league games already, so starting the 2 lads ahead of him was entirely the correct decision.

keane2097

---

Kealy

--- Enright --- Griffin --- Fitzgerald

--- Crowley --- O Se --- Young

---

Maher --- Moran

---

--- Walsh --- Darran --- O'Brien

--- James --- Declan --- Cox

It's a very young team, I'm not sure what the hang up about old guys is

Archer3083

premierstone wrote: »

Nash is 29 and had been in the Cork squad since he was 21, agree with your overall point though.

I think Marc Ó Sé will definitely start all of the games in championship this year. He's still a fantastic player. He'd still get on any team in the country. Aidan O'Mahony is past his best now. He's lost his pace, but he's still a great physical presence. He is more of an impact sub at this stage. Kerry needed a win against Mayo the last day. So, obviously Fitzmaurice trusts Aidan O'Mahony more in a big game than he does any of his younger replacements. If you're a young lad on the Kerry panel, and AOM starts ahead of you, you know the manager doesn't trust you, and maybe doesn't rate you. That's not good for confidence. Some guys are confidence players, they respond better to an arm around the shoulder than the kick up the ass, and they respond more when a manger puts faith in them, it builds their confidence up.