Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

Archer3083

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As a Mayo blow-in living in Kerry I spend as much time these days wondering about Kerry as I do Mayo.

To be honest I think a semi-final is about as good as it will get for Kerry.
They are a team in transition, there is no doubt about that and there is no use denying that they still have gaps to fill to get back to being regular winners.

I think league form is always a decent indicator of how a team will do in the championship, usually for the worst too.
Look at Dublin 2012 and Donegal 2013, they both had poor leagues and ended up not being the force they were expected to be in the Championship.
Kerry's poor league form in 2013 was also a indication what was to come.
And Kerry's poor results this year, and their inability to perform for 70mins is a sign for the year ahead.
To be honest there is not much more to be added to this current squad.
Declan O' Sullivan has had a few poor years and is not getting any younger
Star is lost
Brian Sheehan has struggled to get fit after a few injuries
Darran O' Sullivan could still offer a lot but time will tell.

I also think that the absence of the Gooch could expose some members of this team.
Many bathed in the reflected glory of the Gooch when they were to ones to give the final pass to him.
How good will they look when some one less talented than Gooch is not working wonders on the end of those passes ?

I think they will struggle to win the Munster Championship in Cork (not that Cork are great either to be honest) and eventually go out to Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone/Donegal.
They will probably get past the last round of the qualifiers as the teams coming from the 3rd round will not be of great quality.
Then again I feel that if the likes of Cavan meet Kerry again in 2014 they would not give them the same respect as they did in 2013.
And the days of Kerry getting to Croke Park and turning it on are gone since 2009.
Since that last All Ireland win they have beaten the following in Croke Park in Championship
Limerick, a young and inexperienced Mayo and a young and inexperienced Cavan

If they happen to win Munster then a semi-final may be on the cards (possibly v Mayo), but then again they could struggle to get past a Cavan or Monaghan team in the QFs that would have learned from their 2013 experiences in the big house.

That's my honest assessment as an outsider looking in.

I'd agree with everything you said except when it comes to Cork. I think that Cuthbert has shown that there is plenty of talent in Cork, and plenty of good players if they are well managed. Haven't been for years. And then, that's really the essential problem with Kerry. While Kerry have had good management teams, they have lacked the players over the last few years, and until their young players gain in experience and confidence or else until a few more talented individuals come through, then best expectations would be a quarter-final or semi-final. I think it could be another 2012 or 2013 for Cork and Kerry. In 2012 and in 2013 both Cork and Kerry were knocked out by the same team at the quarter-final stage/semi-final stages. The only thing that was different was who got to a semi-final based on winning Munster. So, it will be hugely important to win Munster this year if either team has genuine ambitions of winning Sam. Who would really want to lose Munster and meet a provincial champion at quarter-final stage. It could be Dublin, Mayo, or Tyrone/Donegal. Ok, you'll have to meet those teams eventually, but you'd prefer to meet them in semi-final and final stages, when nerves, occasion, pressure etc. might be more of a factor.

thinkstoomuch1

Ah here..Relax lad ..i mentioned it once in fairness,then a few questiond my post and i replied.

As you so often made the point to me on the cork thread ,were entitled to our opinion.People know here i dont have a history of spreading rumours on this thread

And yes i mentioed cronin,i said ,as there was a space availble.


And keane i said had started,but was just one.If it was not true ,fair game ,but i just raised the point.And lets be fair ,that rumour came from the kerry side ,just wanted to know more.


Lads thats a very good strong kerry team ,and certainly ye would be hot favourites,at home ,yere the team to beat .Hopefully things go our way and we get a bit of luck.

That kerry team is a serious team.

thinkstoomuch1

Uncle Mclovin wrote: »

If you read my post again you'll see that I didn't say they played. I just said that Keane played the final. I didn't say that Cox or Geaney were U21. I just said they were Kerry men.

By the way your post is difficult to understand.

I was replying to a cork and another poster.
I did not mention you if you read my post again.

thinkstoomuch1

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Lay off the posting of under 21 probable team lads..one of the slight advantages we might have is that I don't think Cork have as clear a picture of what our lineup will be as they would usually have at this level!

The biggest issue we're going to have is our defence v their attack. We need to get the marking match-ups right and, call a spade a spade, we're going to need to get bodies behind the ball a lot. If we give that Cork forward line space it will be trouble.

Our forward line has enough firepower to do damage, I think we should do ok at midifield, so it will come down to how well we defend. The likes of McEoin and Cathal Vaughan in particular will need to be closed down.

Cork are well aware of kerry ,and there players like ye would be with us.

homerjay2005

people keep saying the word transition, but im not sure about this, i think decline is the correct word to use and im not sure how long it will take to recover from it.

we were blessed with an unreal bunch of young lads from 1994 to 1998, which gave us then the basis of a serious team from 1997 to 2011, topping up any retirements with superstar additions like Gooch, Darran, Declan, Killian, Star etc etc...sadly most of these players are now gone and its time for somebody else to have their day. i think Dublin will dominate football for years to come and i am not sure how long it will take to recover.

the underage game is struggling in Kerry and has been for about 10 years now and finally we are seeing the "damage" at senior level. i think we will go from being ranked 1-3 every year for the past 17 years, to 3-7 unfortunately.

ciarriaithuaidh

Kerry Senior Football Team V Tyrone

The team is as follows:
1.Brian Kelly (Killarney Legion)
2.Paul Murphy (Rathmore)
3.Mark Griffin (St Michaels/Foilmore)
4.Shane Enright (Tarbert)
5.Peter Crowley (Laune Rangers)
6.Fionn Fitzgerald (Dr Crokes)
7.Marc Sé (An Ghaeltacht)
8.Anthony Maher (Duagh)
9.David Moran (Kerins O’Rahillys)
10.Daithí Casey (Dr Crokes)
11.Bryan Sheehan (St Marys)
12.Donnchadh Walsh (Cromane)
13.Barry John Keane (Kerins O’Rahillys)
14.Stephen O’Brien (Kenmare)
15.James O’Donoghue (Killarney Legion)

Fir Ionaid:
16.Brendan Kealy (Kilcummin)
17.Aidan O’Mahony (Rathmore)
18.Paul Geaney (Dingle)
19.Conor Cox (Listowel Emmets)
20.Brian McGuire (Listowel Emmets)
21.Jack Sherwood (Firies)
22.Michael Geaney (Dingle)
23.Johnny Buckley (Dr Crokes)
24.Pa Kilkenny (Glenbeigh/Glencar)
25.Darran O’Sullivan (Glenbeigh Glencar)
26.Kieran O’Leary (Dr Crokes)

Does Eamonn read boards.ie I wonder?!
Great to see Sheehan back and on the forty..he may get some time around the middle aswell. Happy to see Brian Kelly get another go in goals, good to see Fionn starting again. Positive changes I have to say. Let hope a performance follows.

Fr Tod Umptious

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

That's largely fair enough.

Only 2 elements of the post I'd have a problem with are:
1. Your assesment of the Croke park performance since 2009 is a bit of a misrepresentation IMO given the close nature of the 2011 final, 2012 game v Donegal, 2013 semi final with Dublin.
2. Mentioning Cavan twice..the game with Cavan last year was a shocking performance yet, without one of our 2 best players (JOD) the game was still over at half time. This thing about "giving Kerry respect" is nonsense. Monaghan I would agree are a team that could give a lot of teams trouble on their day and would have beaten Tyrone last year if they had the courage to abandon their overly defensive structure for even a quarter of the game.

Personally, for the first time in a long time, I don't expect us to be in contention for Sam, but I would like to see an improvement in structure, tactical performance and in individual performances like Buckley, Moran, Enright and Griffin for example.

What do you make of Mayo's prospects for the year?

On the Croke Park performance thing, the reality is that they lost all of those games.
They lost the 2011 final from being 4 pts up with 7 mins to go.
If I recall they never lead in the 2012 game v Donegal, at least not after the Donegal goal was scored, they were always trying to play catach up.
In the 2013 SF v Dublin they tried to do what they did v Tyrone in the league and Cork in the Munster final, i.e build a big lead and weather the storm. That did not happen v Dublin because they could not open the 6,7,8 point gap, and they eventually scummed because they had neither the bench nor the legs to stick with Dublin.

But I bet you people (and mainly non Kerry people by the way) will still trot out the 'Kerry step it up a gear when they get to Croke Park' line.
Kerry did step it up a gear v Armagh in 2006 and v Dublin in 2009 after lacklustre Munster and backdoor campaigns, but this squad are not your 2006 or 2009 guys.

On the mention of Cavan, sorry for using them twice but I think they are the kind of team that could take Kerry out in Croke Park, a bit like Down in 2010, and like Monaghan they will have learned a lot from their 2013 visits.

As for Mayo, well it will go one of two ways.
They will feel the mental the physical fatigue of two final appearances in a row without a win and will not be able to put in the same intensity as they have done in the previous years
Or they will again move up a gear and get to the final again (and hopefully win it).
I will wait till the end of the league to see what they may be like, if they fail to make the league SF they it's the former.

Fr Tod Umptious

Archer3083 wrote: »

I'd agree with everything you said except when it comes to Cork. I think that Cuthbert has shown that there is plenty of talent in Cork, and plenty of good players if they are well managed. Haven't been for years. And then, that's really the essential problem with Kerry. While Kerry have had good management teams, they have lacked the players over the last few years, and until their young players gain in experience and confidence or else until a few more talented individuals come through, then best expectations would be a quarter-final or semi-final. I think it could be another 2012 or 2013 for Cork and Kerry. In 2012 and in 2013 both Cork and Kerry were knocked out by the same team at the quarter-final stage/semi-final stages. The only thing that was different was who got to a semi-final based on winning Munster. So, it will be hugely important to win Munster this year if either team has genuine ambitions of winning Sam. Who would really want to lose Munster and meet a provincial champion at quarter-final stage. It could be Dublin, Mayo, or Tyrone/Donegal. Ok, you'll have to meet those teams eventually, but you'd prefer to meet them in semi-final and final stages, when nerves, occasion, pressure etc. might be more of a factor.

I'm not convinced that a team that has lost six big name players, and gets a new manager can be considered title contenders in the first year.
They have done well in the league so far but still have 4 tough games ahead of them.
Plus they may be playing with a full deck right now whereas other teams are still a good bit away from that.

ciarriaithuaidh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

On the Croke Park performance thing, the reality is that they lost all of those games.
They lost the 2011 final from being 4 pts up with 7 mins to go.
If I recall they never lead in the 2012 game v Donegal, at least not after the Donegal goal was scored, they were always trying to play catach up.
In the 2013 SF v Dublin they tried to do what they did v Tyrone in the league and Cork in the Munster final, i.e build a big lead and weather the storm. That did not happen v Dublin because they could not open the 6,7,8 point gap, and they eventually scummed because they had neither the bench nor the legs to stick with Dublin.

But I bet you people (and mainly non Kerry people by the way) will still trot out the 'Kerry step it up a gear when they get to Croke Park' line.
Kerry did step it up a gear v Armagh in 2006 and v Dublin in 2009 after lacklustre Munster and backdoor campaigns, but this squad are not your 2006 or 2009 guys.

On the mention of Cavan, sorry for using them twice but I think they are the kind of team that could take Kerry out in Croke Park, a bit like Down in 2010, and like Monaghan they will have learned a lot from their 2013 visits.

As for Mayo, well it will go one of two ways.
They will feel the mental the physical fatigue of two final appearances in a row without a win and will not be able to put in the same intensity as they have done in the previous years
Or they will again move up a gear and get to the final again (and hopefully win it).
I will wait till the end of the league to see what they may be like, if they fail to make the league SF they it's the former.

Lets get this clear, Kerry winning Sam is a long shot IMO, plus I agree the panel is not as strong as 2006-2009.

You stated that Kerry haven't performed in Croke park since 2009 though, which is not remotely accurate. 2010 against Down was a shambles, unquestionably. 2011, we destroyed your crowd scoring 1-21 or something like that in semi, lost final by 1 point having played some excellent football especially in the second half. Sloppy mistakes cost us that game, not "legs" or "panel strength". 2012 v Donegal was a poor enough performance and yet only 2 in it. No doubt who was on top in last 15 mins either.
Which brings me to last years semi final. Yes, Dublin probably deserved it in the end, but it was a close run thing. If that ball MDMA flicked to McMenamin lands in Marc O'Sé's hands in the 70th minute...if, buts and and's I know.
We've fallen, more than jumped the final fences in the last 4 years I know..but even with squad strength diminshing, we haven't been THAT far away...that's all I'm saying.

I heavily dispute your notions about Cavan aswell..don't know where you're coming from there. They are horrible, have you seen them play lately?
Monaghan are a better team and like I said previously COULD beat anyone on a given day..not Cavan though...not until they change their style of football.

keane2097

To say we didn't play a lot better in Croke Park than we did outside of it last year is objectively wrong. Our semi final performance was the very definition of "stepping it up".

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

To say we didn't play a lot better in Croke Park than we did outside of it last year is objectively wrong. Our semi final performance was the very definition of "stepping it up".

Kerry played brilliantly in the first half against Cork in the Munster final. It was as fine a display as you're going to see of just pure brilliant football, but then Kerry played pretty poorly in the second half. The same thing happened in the Cavan game. Whatever the reason for the poor second half, it happened and has been happening for a long time. Maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's complacency. It's hard to put a finger on it, and it's obviously hard to rectify. Obvious Fitzmaurice has tried to do it. Anyway, it's impossible for any team to dominate the full 70 mins. You're always going to get times when the opposition have a purple patch and it's just a case of weathering that storm and pushing on. Big game tomorro vs Tyrone. Hugely important

keane2097

Archer3083 wrote: »

Kerry played brilliantly in the first half against Cork in the Munster final. It was as fine a display as you're going to see of just pure brilliant football, but then Kerry played pretty poorly in the second half. The same thing happened in the Cavan game. Whatever the reason for the poor second half, it happened and has been happening for a long time. Maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's complacency. It's hard to put a finger on it, and it's obviously hard to rectify. Obvious Fitzmaurice has tried to do it. Anyway, it's impossible for any team to dominate the full 70 mins. You're always going to get times when the opposition have a purple patch and it's just a case of weathering that storm and pushing on. Big game tomorro vs Tyrone. Hugely important

I believe very strongly it's tactical malfunctioning. We don't stick to the gameplan when we're under pressure, or change it in a structured way - our tactics are way too reactive when things go against us and our play loses all structure.

Archer3083

keane2097 wrote: »

I believe very strongly it's tactical malfunctioning. We don't stick to the gameplan when we're under pressure, or change it in a structured way - our tactics are way too reactive when things go against us and our play loses all structure.

Maybe, although Kerry have had some great managers in Jack O'Connor and Fitzmaurice. What is strange is that the same thing happened under Jack as well.

ciarriaithuaidh

Archer3083 wrote: »

Maybe, although Kerry have had some great managers in Jack O'Connor and Fitzmaurice. What is strange is that the same thing happened under Jack as well.

For a great manager (and he really was a great manager), Jack lost the plot tactically a lot in his last 2 years. The changes and lack thereof, in 2011 final and playing Killian Young corner back until his confidence was destroyed were massive errors of judgement for starters.

Fitz made a couple of errors last year, willing to give him a pass for now as just heading into his second year in the job.

Archer3083

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

For a great manager (and he really was a great manager), Jack lost the plot tactically a lot in his last 2 years. The changes and lack thereof, in 2011 final and playing Killian Young corner back until his confidence was destroyed were massive errors of judgement for starters.

Fitz made a couple of errors last year, willing to give him a pass for now as just heading into his second year in the job.

To be fair to Jack. He wasn't far away in 2011. There aren't many managers that guide a team to multiple All-Irelands. I know he persisted with Donaghy at centre field and at wing forward that year instead of playing him in his best position of full forward. That was a strange call. I think in the end that the players lost a bit of confidence in Jack, I think a couple of them always held what he said in his book against him. I'm surprised he didn't go to manage another senior intercounty team instead of opting for the minors. Loads of other counties would love to get him

Boom__Boom

Archer3083 wrote: »

I'm surprised he didn't go to manage another senior intercounty team instead of opting for the minors. Loads of other counties would love to get him

The feeling is that there is a strong crop of minors in Kerry this year, which is part of the reason Jack was so keen to get involved.

Archer3083

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The feeling is that there is a strong crop of minors in Kerry this year, which is part of the reason Jack was so keen to get involved.

Do you think he'll work with the minors for a couple of years, and then work his way back up to the seniors. I suppose a lot of people think that's what will happen. Jim Gavin kind of did that with Dublin. He got to know an awful lot of the younger players at u21 level. That's benefited him hugely.

Boom__Boom

Archer3083 wrote: »

Do you think he'll work with the minors for a couple of years, and then work his way back up to the seniors. I suppose a lot of people think that's what will happen. Jim Gavin kind of did that with Dublin. He got to know an awful lot of the younger players at u21 level. That's benefited him hugely.

No idea. Just what I heard on his involvement with the minors.

Archer3083

Boom__Boom wrote: »

No idea. Just what I heard on his involvement with the minors.

Well Kerry definitely need some fresh talent and you really couldn't do better than Jack and Darragh Ó Sé

thinkstoomuch1

On a slighty of topic,but i think it should be mentioned,and he is realated to kieran donaghy i think they said,but a big gaa fan,the very brave Ronan Fitzgerald with hes mother was on the saturday night show just now.


He got a life threatening concussion just training with hes rubgy team in a freak accident.
Fair play,and great to see this young brave ,and wonderfully resilent lad is on hes way to a great recovery.

Best of luck to the lad in the future.


Concussion is something that is being addressed in rubgy,it is a danger in gaa too and must be addressed in gaa for our players safety.


As much as devasting and awful,truly awful-a cruciate injury is,at leasts it not life threatening ,as like concussion can be.


Fair play To Ronan,he is a wonderful young man.

Archer3083

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

On a slighty of topic,but i think it should be mentioned,and he is realated to kieran donaghy i think they said,but a big gaa fan,the very brave Ronan Fitzgerald with hes mother was on the saturday night show just now.


He got a life threatening concussion just training with hes rubgy team in a freak accident.
Fair play,and great to see this young brave ,and wonderfully resilent lad is on hes way to a great recovery.

Best of luck to the lad in the future.


Concussion is something that is being addressed in rubgy,it is a danger in gaa too and must be addressed in gaa for our players safety.


As much as devasting and awful,truly awful-a cruciate injury is,at leasts it not life threatening ,as like concussion can be.


Fair play To Ronan,he is a wonderful young man.

You're right. The GAA aren't doing enough when it comes to concussion. First of all there should be an impartial doctor at every game with no ties to either team that is playing. That doctor should assess every player that has a head injury and he should make the call as to whether the player remains on the field or not. A team doctor should not be allowed to make this decision as he is going to do what is best for the team and may be under pressure from team manager, fans, county board etc. I've never seen this incident raised or talked about but I was disgusted that Rory O'Carroll was kept on the field for the last 10/15 mins of the All-Ireland final even though he was concussed because Dublin had used all their subs and Dublin just wanted to keep him on the field so that they could finish the game with 15 players. The guy said afterwards that he doesn't remember those last 10 or 15 mins. Everyone knows that a second blow to the head is the most dangerous thing. He could easily have suffered a long term problem if he got a second big bang. I lost a little respect for Jim Gavin after that incident. It can't be win at all costs. Another incident last year was the concussion that John Conlon got playing against Cork in Munster. It was an accident but he was left on the field too long afterwards. At one stage he asked Davy which way he was playing. His blood pressure went through the roof. He returned to training too soon after this concussion and actually complained of headaches whilst training. Bad management of the condition by the medical staff. Also, it's alarming that certain individual players are picking up alot of concussions. Richie Power is a perfect example. He has got 3 concussions in the last 2 years in championship. I think everyone remembers the one he got against Cork last year, and against Limerick the year before. This cannot be good for his long term welfare. I think the compulsory use of helmets in hurling has made certain guys think that they can hit their opponent harder. It's not the case at all.

One simple step could minimise the after effects of concussion. Have an independent doctor assess the player. And have a set period of time before a player can return to training or competitive matches. I think 6 weeks is normally recommended. So a player should be banned from playing games at club and county level until that 6 weeks expires. Again, if this was done centrally by the GAA, the decision would be taken out of the hands of the manager and player. And there would be no peer pressure on the player to return before he's ready.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

To say we didn't play a lot better in Croke Park than we did outside of it last year is objectively wrong. Our semi final performance was the very definition of "stepping it up".

But that's not what I am saying.

There is a tendency for people, mainly nationally, not necessarily Kerry folk, to dismiss poor Kerry performances in the league, Munster Championship and qualifiers with the line "wait till they get to Croke Park, they will up their game then"

What I am saying is that since 2009 Kerry actually have a poor record in Croke Park (W3 L4). The three wins were against Mayo, Limerick and Cavan. So recent evidence suggests that Kerry are not a good in big games in Croke Park as some people think..

ciarriaithuaidh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But that's not what I am saying.

There is a tendency for people, mainly nationally, not necessarily Kerry folk, to dismiss poor Kerry performances in the league, Munster Championship and qualifiers with the line "wait till they get to Croke Park, they will up their game then"

What I am saying is that since 2009 Kerry actually have a poor record in Croke Park (W3 L4). The three wins were against Mayo, Limerick and Cavan. So recent evidence suggests that Kerry are not a good in big games in Croke Park as some people think..

You are going in circles man. We discussed those 4 lost games in depth and still you come back with that as your argument? You seem to be basing your point on the random musings of random punters or guff from journalists...We have gone through ALL those 4 games and discussed in detail how, yes..Kerry lost all of them, but in 3 of them (Down in 2010 aside) they came very close to winning those games and were at the very least in close contention.

If your point is "Kerry have a substandard record in Croke park since 2009", then yes, we all agree..lets move on.

Archer3083

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

You are going in circles man. We discussed those 4 lost games in depth and still you come back with that as your argument? You seem to be basing your point on the random musings of random punters or guff from journalists...We have gone through ALL those 4 games and discussed in detail how, yes..Kerry lost all of them, but in 3 of them (Down in 2010 aside) they came very close to winning those games and were at the very least in close contention.

If your point is "Kerry have a substandard record in Croke park since 2009", then yes, we all agree..lets move on.

I think if you're going to look at Kerry's record in Croke park since 2009 it must also be mentioned that in most cases Kerry were beaten by very good teams. In fact, in 2011, 2012 and 2013 Kerry were beaten by the eventual All-Ireland champions. So, that was Dublin 2011, Donegal in 2012, and Dublin again in 2013. In 2010 Kerry were beaten by Down who went on to be All-Ireland finalists. So, you can talk all you want about poor Kerry form at Croke park, but to my mind, you can also say that Kerry have been very competitive in all those games, and those games with the exception of Down in 2010 could really have gone either way. Down were basically a one hit wonder, Donegal flopped big time in 2012. In those 4 years since 2009 Kerry have been consistently good and consistently close to winning in Croke park. How many other teams maintained that level of consistency since 2009. Cork, Dublin, or Mayo? Certainly not Donegal, Tyrone or Kildare. Those are very high standards in my opinion that Kerry have maintained, and can hardly be considered poor form.

DDC1990

First Kerry game in a while that i've missed. Disappointing, but at least its on TG4.

Come on lads!

DDC1990

2 big goal chances spurned.

Hope it doesn't bite us later on.

DDC1990

Typical.

Total domination for 15/20 minutes and its level.

5 points each.

EDIT: Nearly gave away a goal there as well. Midfield fading.

DDC1990

Bryan Sheehan absolutely massive so far.

Winning breaks, kicking free's and setting up scores.

7 points each.

Poor_old_gill

BJK is having a bit of a shocker- some man for the hit and hope shot

skeleton_boy

The forwards leaving a lot to be desired today.

Great win for the Kerry hurlers away to Westmeath.