Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

keane2097

Agree that Maher has struggled this year so far, certainly a worry.

manster

keane2097 wrote: »

Agree that Maher has struggled this year so far, certainly a worry.

I thought Maher had one of his better matches against Kildare. It was the one area of the pitch where we had an advantage in physique. Difficult match to read much into as Kildare were so poor.

legendary.xix

Moran's been going well of late.

ciarriaithuaidh

manster wrote: »

I thought Maher had one of his better matches against Kildare. It was the one area of the pitch where we had an advantage in physique. Difficult match to read much into as Kildare were so poor.

Quite how you can say that is beyond me. He kicked the ball away stupidly several times and didn't really appear much outside the 2 65s from what I recall. I rate him as a player, but he's not playing well and needs to up it. No point calling it otherwise.

homerjay2005

ye think Buckley will be at midfield this year or is Moran/Maher nailed on?

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ye think Buckley will be at midfield this year or is Moran/Maher nailed on?

I've thought for the last couple of years it has to be Maher + another.

Buckley, Sheehan and Moran are all more like each other, i.e. the more attack half of the partnership while Maher has always gotten through his best work on the back foot.

Of the three I think Buckley would be the most potential to make a slightly more defensive player, but I would have Maher at his best a good bit ahead of him in that regard. I think David's form so far this year is ahead of anything Buckley has done for Kerry by a decent bit as well albeit only the tail end of last year plus the league this year.

I have a nagging suspicion which has been added to by people who have watched Buckley underage for a long time that when the pressure comes on Buckley isn't the man you want manning the pump.

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

I've thought for the last couple of years it has to be Maher + another.

Buckley, Sheehan and Moran are all more like each other, i.e. the more attack half of the partnership while Maher has always gotten through his best work on the back foot.

Of the three I think Buckley would be the most potential to make a slightly more defensive player, but I would have Maher at his best a good bit ahead of him in that regard. I think David's form so far this year is ahead of anything Buckley has done for Kerry by a decent bit as well albeit only the tail end of last year plus the league this year.

I have a nagging suspicion which has been added to by people who have watched Buckley underage for a long time that when the pressure comes on Buckley isn't the man you want manning the pump.

In fairness Keane, Moran hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in his championship outings to date either, so I'd have to slightly disagree with the bolded bit. Yes, he is doing ok so far in the league, but he still has some bad habits that need to be eradicated.

What you say about Buckley is true, the jury is out on him and he needs to show a bit of grit this year if he is to avoid sitting on the bench, but he HAS had good games for Kerry, had a decent Munster final last year in Killarney for example, so wouldn't be putting Moran that far ahead of him or writing him off yet.

Maher/Sheehan were excellent in 2011 and if both of them were on top of their game would be hard to exclude (Sheehan on the 40 is looking an option also), but we'll have to see how they go in the coming months. The form of Maher and getting the defensive options sorted are way bigger issues for me right now.

D'Agger

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

In fairness Keane, Moran hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in his championship outings to date either, so I'd have to slightly disagree with the bolded bit. Yes, he is doing ok so far in the league, but he still has some bad habits that need to be eradicated.

What you say about Buckley is true, the jury is out on him and he needs to show a bit of grit this year if he is to avoid sitting on the bench, but he HAS had good games for Kerry, had a decent Munster final last year in Killarney for example, so wouldn't be putting Moran that far ahead of him or writing him off yet.

Maher/Sheehan were excellent in 2011 and if both of them were on top of their game would be hard to exclude (Sheehan on the 40 is looking an option also), but we'll have to see how they go in the coming months. The form of Maher and getting the defensive options sorted are way bigger issues for me right now.

Regarding Moran - he hasn't had that many opportunities to display his talents from what I can remember, and a brilliant cameo against Cork in 2009 springs to mind. Shows how long he's been waiting for a breakthrough year really due to injuries.

Regarding the bad habits that need to be eradicated, with all due respect, name them rather than elude to them - for the sake of conversation if nothing else.

I think we should try Sheehan at full forward - fitness has always been his issue, but he's very strong, good in the air and a good ball player. I think putting him closer to goal is something we should look at - JOD & AN other in the corners. Worst case scenario if we're not doing well in the middle we can pull him out.

keane2097

Sheehan at CHF by a mile for me if he's fit. The last thing we need is to revert to big man full forward and lump her in rubbish. Sheehan is a very good playmaker and did a similar (if obviously less stellar) job to Gooch last year from midfield in 2011.

Less burdened by the need to defend from 11 I think he'd be better again.

Also, should be a positive having an extra target man for kickouts, especially as our tactics have been to go with (literally) 100% long ones in the last two games.

ciarriaithuaidh

D'Agger wrote: »

Regarding Moran - he hasn't had that many opportunities to display his talents from what I can remember, and a brilliant cameo against Cork in 2009 springs to mind. Shows how long he's been waiting for a breakthrough year really due to injuries.

Regarding the bad habits that need to be eradicated, with all due respect, name them rather than elude to them - for the sake of conversation if nothing else.

I think we should try Sheehan at full forward - fitness has always been his issue, but he's very strong, good in the air and a good ball player. I think putting him closer to goal is something we should look at - JOD & AN other in the corners. Worst case scenario if we're not doing well in the middle we can pull him out.

Firstly, the cameo against Cork you refer to was the 2008 semi final replay I assume when he fielded a kickout and was involved in the move leading to Gooch's winning goal? What I meant was that between then and 2011 he got several chances to impress and was less than stellar. Replay against Cork in 2010 and the Down game that year spring to mind.

I think anyone who has watched Moran play will know full well what bad habits I'm talking about. In the first half of his supposed man of the match performance against Tyrone for example, he kicked possession away at least 3 times. He is a decent kicker, but needs to realise the killer pass isn't on every single time.

To look on the positive side: often he does deliver excellent ball and is able to take a score himself aswell when the chance presents itself. He is getting on the ball a lot more, fielding well and being a lot more imposing than he has been in the past. If he keeps the upward trend in form going, then he will be a very important player for us.

Sheehan full forward? Big thumbs down from me on that. JOD 13, Declan 14 if we can get away with it is my preference. O'Brien 15 on current form in fairness aswell.

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

Sheehan at CHF by a mile for me if he's fit. The last thing we need is to revert to big man full forward and lump her in rubbish. Sheehan is a very good playmaker and did a similar (if obviously less stellar) job to Gooch last year from midfield in 2011.

Less burdened by the need to defend from 11 I think he'd be better again.

Also, should be a positive having an extra target man for kickouts, especially as our tactics have been to go with (literally) 100% long ones in the last two games.

Depending on the opposition/stage of the game, Buckley could turn a few tricks from half forward aswell possibly.

While on the subject of kickouts, I think Kelly is starting to give Fitz a few thoughts with his performances. Started the last 2 games now. Was impressive in the Sigerson (1 goal conceded from 1/4 final onwards) and has continued his decent form keeping a clean sheet in the last 2 games.
To be fair he was beaten once in Newbridge but Crowley saved him with a brilliant clearance off the line!

DDC1990

Buckley needs a break.

Looks like he's been running in tar since he came back from the Crokes. He's been out of position at 12, and looks like he can't move.

Very disappointing, considering his good form last year up until the Semi-Final.

Going purely on league form Maher/Moran are leagues ahead of any combo.

We need Sheehan at CHF, for an extra bit of physicality. Daithí Casey will be our starting Number 10 for Championship barring an injury.

Stepped it up massively against Kildare, winning breaking ball, tracking back well, playing in a playmaker role and kicked 3 scores (2 from out on the sidelines).

I have a feeling that certain lads are on different training schedules. Some guys look really light on their feet and seem to have loads of juice in their legs while others look like they are on a harder running schedule and as such seem leggier come game time.

Maybe its just form and the guys who are playing well have an extra bounce in their step.

keane2097

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Depending on the opposition/stage of the game, Buckley could turn a few tricks from half forward aswell possibly.

Do you reckon so yeah? My opinion would have been that it's a total systems failure if Buckley ends up at 10 or 12, wouldn't have thought he has the skill or mobility for it.

For both he and David I'd say midfield or nowhere.

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

While on the subject of kickouts, I think Kelly is starting to give Fitz a few thoughts with his performances. Started the last 2 games now. Was impressive in the Sigerson (1 goal conceded from 1/4 final onwards) and has continued his decent form keeping a clean sheet in the last 2 games.

To be fair he was beaten once in Newbridge but Crowley saved him with a brilliant clearance off the line!

I don't think there's any point in his last two performances tbh. If the idea was to prove that we have a decent keeper who can have the odd wobbler under the high ball then we didn't really achieve anything as we already know we have that in Kealy.

What we really need to see from Kelly is whether he can do better than Kealy at what I would call "tactical kickouts" (as distinct from short ones), and unfortunately as I said we literally kicked every last ball straight and long in the last two games according to my stats.

That's grand when you're winning midfield, but what happens when we get to June, July or August and have a problem. Not working on tactical kickouts during the league is criminal IMO, and unless Fitzmaurice is playing some sort of cute game with them ahead of the summer I think he's being extremely remiss.

On Kelly, he might be a bit better than Kealy, but the truth is we have no idea whether we have a keeper who is any good at the most important part of GAA goalkeeping or not yet.

ciarriaithuaidh

DDC1990 wrote: »

Buckley needs a break.

Looks like he's been running in tar since he came back from the Crokes. He's been out of position at 12, and looks like he can't move.

Very disappointing, considering his good form last year up until the Semi-Final.

Going purely on league form Maher/Moran are leagues ahead of any combo.

We need Sheehan at CHF, for an extra bit of physicality. Daithí Casey will be our starting Number 10 for Championship barring an injury.

Stepped it up massively against Kildare, winning breaking ball, tracking back well, playing in a playmaker role and kicked 3 scores (2 from out on the sidelines).

I have a feeling that certain lads are on different training schedules. Some guys look really light on their feet and seem to have loads of juice in their legs while others look like they are on a harder running schedule and as such seem leggier come game time.

Maybe its just form and the guys who are playing well have an extra bounce in their step.

What do you mean about Buckley being out of position? He has barely played for Kerry this year...plus he has played half forward at minor and under 21 level, won an AI U-21 in 2008 from 12.

I agree on Sheehan at 11, although Declan may have to be used there at some point. Casey is an option there also.

Casey did ok against Kildare but you are getting too far ahead saying he's a cert to start IMO. He did eventually get into the Kildare game, and kicked a few nice scores like you say. However his man (Cribbin) had got forward unaccompanied too often for my liking in the first half though and had also won a couple of breaks. Decent cover coupled with Kildare ineptitude in attack meant the damage wasn't as pronounced as it could have been.
Incidentally, I don't think grafting around the middle is a strong point of Daithi's game and I only recall him claiming 1 break on Sunday. In fairness it's not the game he's asked to play with Crokes though. He's the playmaker from 11 for them and sprays the ball around or takes on his man.

On your last paragraph, you may have a point. Some lads have just come off a tough Sigerson campaign for example, so fitness/form will vary a bit. All that matters is that from July on this is minimised.

keane2097

Any idea what the story was with Kilkenny/Enright?

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

Any idea what the story was with Kilkenny/Enright

Pa pulled a hammer in training so couldn't start. Pity for him as he did well in his cameo v Tyrone and hopefully will get a run in Mullingar or in Cork game.

Silver lining was that Enright had a solid game on Mulhall who was in serious form. (1-5 v Dublin) so that'll do his confidence good. He went off injured after clattering into O'Connor and Griffin near the end though so hope it's nothing serious.

keane2097

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Pa pulled a hammer in training so couldn't start. Pity for him as he did well in his cameo v Tyrone and hopefully will get a run in Mullingar or in Cork game.

Silver lining was that Enright had a solid game on Mulhall who was in serious form. (1-5 v Dublin) so that'll do his confidence good. He went off injured after clattering into O'Connor and Griffin near the end though so hope it's nothing serious.

Yeah would look forward to seeing more of Pa, looks like great cutting in him from what I've seen so far. Good to have options, glad to see Enright improving again as well.

DDC1990

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

What do you mean about Buckley being out of position? He has barely played for Kerry this year...plus he has played half forward at minor and under 21 level, won an AI U-21 in 2008 from 12.

I agree on Sheehan at 11, although Declan may have to be used there at some point. Casey is an option there also.

Casey did ok against Kildare but you are getting too far ahead saying he's a cert to start IMO. He did eventually get into the Kildare game, and kicked a few nice scores like you say. However his man (Cribbin) had got forward unaccompanied too often for my liking in the first half though and had also won a couple of breaks. Decent cover coupled with Kildare ineptitude in attack meant the damage wasn't as pronounced as it could have been.
Incidentally, I don't think grafting around the middle is a strong point of Daithi's game and I only recall him claiming 1 break on Sunday. In fairness it's not the game he's asked to play with Crokes though. He's the playmaker from 11 for them and sprays the ball around or takes on his man.

On your last paragraph, you may have a point. Some lads have just come off a tough Sigerson campaign for example, so fitness/form will vary a bit. All that matters is that from July on this is minimised.

For me Buckley's skillset is purely as a Midfielder in todays game. He's be run into the ground by a Lee Keegan or a Jack McCaffrey which seem to be all the rage at half-back.

I recognize that he has played a good bit of football at 12, but for me he's an 8/9 only at Senior Intercounty level. Just my opinion.

I'm basing this years form off his performances as a sub vs Derry, Tyrone and Kildare. Not a lot of gametime, but as I said he's seemed to be lethargic. Cannot get any jump off the ground or keep up with his man. Ground this time of year doesn't suit him, and he may be doing extra running work to ensure that he lasts the pace come August in Croker. Massive fan of Buckley in general, and would have an on form Buckley starting at midfield with any day of the week, but I just feel he could do with a bit of a break until Championship time.

I saw huge steps forward from Casey in Newbridge. Didn't see Cribbin get forward too often, but then again I was towards the other end of the field for the first half. Cribbin was shifted back onto Stephen O'Brien fairly early in the game. He won at least 4 breaking balls, and there was one occasion where his man beat him to the ball, he tracked the run waited for him to land, hounded the man and turned the ball over leading to a score for JO'D. Maybe i'm over-rating him but I was very happy with the shift he put in on Sunday.

keane2097

I suspect Casey has the quality to play for Kerry, very much hope to be proved right!

ciarriaithuaidh

DDC1990 wrote: »

For me Buckley's skillset is purely as a Midfielder in todays game. He's be run into the ground by a Lee Keegan or a Jack McCaffrey which seem to be all the rage at half-back.

I recognize that he has played a good bit of football at 12, but for me he's an 8/9 only at Senior Intercounty level. Just my opinion.

I'm basing this years form off his performances as a sub vs Derry, Tyrone and Kildare. Not a lot of gametime, but as I said he's seemed to be lethargic. Cannot get any jump off the ground or keep up with his man. Ground this time of year doesn't suit him, and he may be doing extra running work to ensure that he lasts the pace come August in Croker. Massive fan of Buckley in general, and would have an on form Buckley starting at midfield with any day of the week, but I just feel he could do with a bit of a break until Championship time.

I saw huge steps forward from Casey in Newbridge. Didn't see Cribbin get forward too often, but then again I was towards the other end of the field for the first half. Cribbin was shifted back onto Stephen O'Brien fairly early in the game. He won at least 4 breaking balls, and there was one occasion where his man beat him to the ball, he tracked the run waited for him to land, hounded the man and turned the ball over leading to a score for JO'D. Maybe i'm over-rating him but I was very happy with the shift he put in on Sunday.

I don't think we have any half forward apart from Darran Sullivan who could keep pace one on one with Keegan or McCaffrey..there aren't many anywhere else either.
It definitely wouldn't work for an entire game I'd say, but if Buckley was fit and in form it could work as a cameo. It's pure conjecture of course, but look at the effect Donnacha Walsh had on the 1st half of the semi final last year, when people (me included!) thought McCaffrey could destroy him. Buckley at his best, is at least as mobile as Walsh, better to take a score, at least as good a kicker and could provide an outlet for kickouts if properly used. May not happen, but would be worth a go IMO.

Couldn't entirely agree with your assessment of Casey from Newbridge but doctors differ and all that. Let's see how he does in the next couple of games.

DDC1990

Also Kelly over Kealy for me.

We were picking Kealy on the fact that he makes some top saves.

Kelly has shown that he too can make those key saves, and his kickouts appear to suit our midfield more.

Having said that Kelly has played against a poor Tyrone side and a poor Kildare side who both struggled at midfield, where Kealy played against an in-form Dublin and Derry side and an above average midfield in Aidan O'Shea and Jason Gibbons.

I'd give Kealy the game against Westmeath and have Kelly in against Cork to see how he fairs.

legendary.xix

Congrats to the hurlers, 5 wins from 5. Carlow will probably be a different proposition in the 2A final. Big incentive to win the Christy Ring Cup this year. Most likely a play-off against Westmeath or London for a place at McCarthy level.

ReacherCreature

legendary.xix wrote: »

Congrats to the hurlers, 5 wins from 5. Carlow will probably be a different proposition in the 2A final. Big incentive to win the Christy Ring Cup this year. Most likely a play-off against Westmeath or London for a place at McCarthy level.

Been keeping an eye on Kerry hurlers the last couple of years and I've been glad for them this season. Five wins and they've scored 14-91 which is phenomenal (one of the highest outputs in all divisions and more than Kilkenny!) Carlow might be a different force in the final but it would be great to see Kerry play Limerick, Wexford, Offaly etc next year.

Kerrydude1981

But the sad thing about it Kerry and Carlow could be in Division 2A again next year because the winner of 2A has to play off against winner of the relegation play off from 1B.

Kerry go unbeaten for the entire league stage,

Antrim win no game in 1B and are rewarded with another crack at staying up.

That relegation play off is a joke,if your bottom you go down simple as that.

wonga77

Most likely Kerry wouldnt beat Antrim either, the system is a bit of a farce

manster

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Quite how you can say that is beyond me. He kicked the ball away stupidly several times and didn't really appear much outside the 2 65s from what I recall. I rate him as a player, but he's not playing well and needs to up it. No point calling it otherwise.

Your opinion. Current midfield pairing are untouchable at the moment. Buckey not up to it (whuch is unfortunate) and Sheehan doesn't have the heart for it if you put a physical plyer on him. We dominated Kildare at midfield (between the twi 65s) and I thought himself and Moran dove-tailed nicely. Anyway that's my opinion. You seem to have a different one.

ciarriaithuaidh

manster wrote: »

Your opinion. Current midfield pairing are untouchable at the moment. Buckey not up to it (whuch is unfortunate) and Sheehan doesn't have the heart for it if you put a physical plyer on him. We dominated Kildare at midfield (between the twi 65s) and I thought himself and Moran dove-tailed nicely. Anyway that's my opinion. You seem to have a different one.

That he kicked away possession 4 or 5 times, is not an opinion, it's fact. If you have the opinion he played well, fair enough.

BTW "Sheehan doesn't have the heart for it..."...what the f*ck do you base this on exactly?

manster

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

That he kicked away possession 4 or 5 times, is not an opinion, it's fact. If you have the opinion he played well, fair enough.

BTW "Sheehan doesn't have the heart for it..."...what the f*ck do you base this on exactly?

Fair play to your stat keeping. You are wasted posting on boards. Fitzmaurice sees Maher as a first choice midfielder and I agree for the points I've previously given.

If you wish to quote me, please do so in full. Here's a few facts for you re Sheahan v Kildare. Fact - he only scored 2 points and both of those were from frees. Fact - his opponent was sledging and striking him off the ball for the majority of the match. Fact - he was eventually hauled off on the 58th minute for Buckley. Sheahan doesn't like the rough stuff and for the points posted above imo it affected his game.

That said I've never seen him looking as fit and trim this early in the season for a long time and we do need a free taker and he is a proven Championship player with only 1 league game behind him this year. Like Maher, I feel the best is yet to come.

ciarriaithuaidh

manster wrote: »

Fair play to your stat keeping. You are wasted posting on boards. Fitzmaurice sees Maher as a first choice midfielder and I agree for the points I've previously given.

If you wish to quote me, please do so in full. Here's a few facts for you re Sheahan v Kildare. Fact - he only scored 2 points and both of those were from frees. Fact - his opponent was sledging and striking him off the ball for the majority of the match. Fact - he was eventually hauled off on the 58th minute for Buckley. Sheahan doesn't like the rough stuff and for the points posted above imo it affected his game.

That said I've never seen him looking as fit and trim this early in the season for a long time and we do need a free taker and he is a proven Championship player with only 1 league game behind him this year. Like Maher, I feel the best is yet to come.

I see Maher as first choice also, but he's not playing well. I think most people would agree on that.

So, based on 1 league game where he received a few digs off the ball you are prepared to say "Sheehan doesn't like the rough stuff"? Seems ridiculous to me. He got plenty rough stuff in Killarney a few weeks ago in Tyrone game and was outstanding..just because he mightn't have had the best game against Kildare, doesn't mean it had anything to do with a few digs given off the ball.

Like you I see him as a definite starter if fit though. Not only his free-taking but his distribution is excellent and he is very strong on the ball.

davegrohl48

What about using Sheehan as a roving corner forward who moves between midfield and half forward line. Leave ODonoghue and Darren OSullivan inside to give ye one of the hardest to mark 2 man full forward lines. Sheehan can score from distance, catch kickouts and is an excellent passer off hand or foot. Players could seek Sheehan out n he'd have a strength n size advantage on most defenders to win his own ball. Might not be able to track a defender too well but think he'd do much more damage overall. That 2 man inside line would have serious pace depending on Darren OSullivans return to fitness.