Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

keane2097 · 27-03-2014 8:15pm

Bizarre complaints about Sheehan.

Poor_old_gill · 28-03-2014 12:08pm

I usually like to take a back seat and observe most of the arguments on here but feel compelled to get into this one.

Few players divide opinion in Kerry like Sheehan-with some Kerry fans really hating the man for some strange reason and on the other hand there seems to be a good few Sheehan loyalists who overrate him.

Like most polarising arguments the truth lies somewhere in the middle- he is a very good intercounty footballer, maybe not top class but he is definitely of the standard where he should start for a top county team like Kerry more often than not.

I think that Sheehan is a man that in any other era would have been one of the players of his generation as he has all the attributes of a top class player but just lacks that bit of explosive pace that seems to be so valued in today's game.

Also to say that he doesnt like the rough stuff is such a boringly stereotypical argument- people see a player with a languid style and assume that he is lazy and uninterested- stats have shown that he is usually one of our players to handle most ball.

Just because a player doesn't fly into tackles doesn't mean that the are afraid to- it usually means that they have been clever enough to take an option where they are not required to.

Rant over for me on this one

DDC1990 · 28-03-2014 12:19pm

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=212844

Kerry's Mark Griffin is the first intercounty footballer to have had a black card rescinded.

Full back Griffin was black-carded for pulling Alan Freeman back two minutes from the end of the Kingdom's Division One defeat to Mayo at the start of the month and Kerry subsequently had to see out the game with 14 men as they had already used up all their substitutions.

Only right too. Was enraged that the referee that day didn't know some of the basic rules of Gaelic Football, not to mention the newer Black Card rules. It might have seemed insignificant at the time with Kerry well beaten when he got the Black Card, but there is a suspension for accumulation of black cards over the year (3 in a year gets a 1 game suspension afaik).

Prop Joe · 28-03-2014 12:22pm

The long and short of it about Sheehan is he can kick points from places no other inter county player can..He took the Tyrone game by the scruff of the neck..i think he is a good enough player but his free taking ability should be enough for him to have a starting number on his back

Kerry_2008 · 28-03-2014 12:38pm

First time commenting on here. Sheehan is a superb footballer. Some of his displays in 11 were top drawer. He has suffered from being moved around a fair bit in his Kerry career and hasn't really yet settled on a position. He was a corner forward in 07 / 08 and moved out a round the half forward and midfield area in the last few years.

As for those questioning his desire in a physical game ye are talking nonsense. I think a prolonged run at centre forward with Maher and Moran at midfield is the way to Kerry to go. I've been watching Johnny Buckley for years both with the club and latterly with the county. I don't get what all the hype is about. At best he is an average to OK inter county midfielder. He is not a first cousin to an inter county half forward.

He played well in the league last year but, I though he was poor in the championship. Take he's free taking out of the games he played last year and he doesn't offer much. he was totally non existent in the semi final against Dublin and his performace was typified by the horrible free kick he missed about 30 yards from goal in the first half. I offer if Sheehan was fit last year he would have been well ahead of Buckley in the pecking order.

I feel Bucley might fall into the category of great club players that has never really produced it for Kerry for one reason or another, like his club mate Kieran O'Leary, and Declan Quill etc before that.

keane2097 · 28-03-2014 6:40pm

Team is out:

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/kerry-name-team-play-westmeath/

legendary.xix · 30-03-2014 8:28am

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

But the sad thing about it Kerry and Carlow could be in Division 2A again next year because the winner of 2A has to play off against winner of the relegation play off from 1B.

Kerry go unbeaten for the entire league stage,

Antrim win no game in 1B and are rewarded with another crack at staying up.

That relegation play off is a joke,if your bottom you go down simple as that.

It's a crazy system and should be changed, corrected even, no question. Counties vote in these changes.

DDC1990 · 30-03-2014 3:45pm

1-6 to 0-9 at half time. Poor performance. Buckley getting wiped at midfield. Maher was named to start but didn't. Been hammered for breaking ball. Lyne has been taken off for Donnacha. James O'Donaghue well marshalled. Good goal tapped in by O'Leary after good work from Stephan O'Brien

Mark Griffin the best of a bad bunch. Marking Glennon well, though Glennon has got a few points.

DDC1990 · 30-03-2014 4:47pm

Much better second half. Got a fortunate goal and confidence bloomed from there. Daithi Casey came on for Sheehan at HT and made a huge difference. Great playmaker. 8 point win in the end 2-15 to 0-13 I think.

ciarriaithuaidh · 30-03-2014 6:05pm

Thanks for the updates DDC..another win anyway. Looking forward to Tralee next week now. Even a win probably won't be enough but Eamon will be looking to finish the league on a positive note anyway.

homerjay2005 · 30-03-2014 6:28pm

getting a semi final spot is well achievable, if i am correct in saying that its top 4 for semis yes?

Allianz

FL1

W

D

L

Dif

Pts
Cork

6

4

1

+8

9
Derry

6

4

1

+25

9
Tyrone

6

3

2

1

+6

8
Dublin

6

3

1

2

+7

7
Mayo

6

3

1

2

+7

7
Kerry

6

3

0

3

+21

6
Kildare

6

1

0

5

22

2
Westmeath--6

0

6

52

0

Kerry v Cork, Austin Stack Park, 3pm
Kildare v Westmeath, Newbridge, 3pm
Mayo v Derry, MacHale Park, 3pm
Tyrone v Dublin, Healy Park, 3pm

so if i am correct, this would be the scenarios -

us winning against Cork obviously is the first thing we need.

then we need Derry to either Draw or Beat Mayo.

i think if the above happens, we will be in the semis. the fact that Dublin V Tyrone are playing each other, means we will finish ahead of one of them, no matter what the result is there.

if Mayo win however, we are out regardless.

the reality is, a Mayo win last night would have helped us alot more, as Dublin beating Tyrone next week would be more a higher possibility, leaving all 3 teams on 8 points, with us then having the best scoring difference.

ciarriaithuaidh · 30-03-2014 6:55pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

getting a semi final spot is well achievable, if i am correct in saying that its top 4 for semis yes?

Allianz
FL1
W
D
L
Dif
Pts
Cork
6
4
1
1
+8
9
Derry
6
4
1
1
+25
9
Tyrone
6
3
2
1
+6
8
Dublin
6
3
1
2
+7
7
Mayo
6
3
1
2
+7
7
Kerry
6
3
0
3
+21
6
Kildare
6
1
0
5
22
2
Westmeath--6
0
0
6
52
0

so if i am correct, this would be the scenarios -

us winning against Cork obviously is the first thing we need.

then we need Derry to either Draw or Beat Mayo.

i think if the above happens, we will be in the semis. the fact that Dublin V Tyrone are playing each other, means we will finish ahead of one of them, no matter what the result is there.

if Mayo win however, we are out regardless.

the reality is, a Mayo win last night would have helped us alot more, as Dublin beating Tyrone next week would be more a higher possibility, leaving all 3 teams on 8 points, with us then having the best scoring difference.

Dublin beat us, so if they even draw will finish ahead of us. We need Mayo AND Dublin to lose to get a semi final. With Derry away to Mayo and already qualified I can't see this happening.

Cork, Derry, Tyrone, Mayo probably semi finalists.

DDC1990 · 30-03-2014 7:06pm

Indeed:

(i) Where two teams only are involved - the outcome of the meeting of the two
teams in the previous game in the competition;
(ii) Scoring Difference (subtracting the total scores against from total scores for);
(iii) Highest total score for;
(iv) A Play-Off.

Its on head to head, so we're screwed in terms of qualifying for Semi-Finals really barring a 3 favourable results.

Will do a little review of the match when I have time. Plenty of positives (Kelly, Griffin, Murphy, Geaney), but also a few disappointments (Sheehan, Buckley and Lyne). Made hard work of it in the first half, didn't fight for the breaking ball enough.

legendary.xix · 30-03-2014 7:07pm

Job done. Fair play to the lads on getting the wins to retain division 1 status.

A semi-final would be a bonus competitive game ahead of championship. I wouldn't be too bothered about it when it's out of our hands. I think Mayo will get the win over Derry leaving Dublin and Tyrone to fight it out for the other spot.

legendary.xix · 30-03-2014 7:23pm

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Dublin beat us, so if they even draw will finish ahead of us. We need Mayo AND Dublin to lose to get a semi final. With Derry away to Mayo and already qualified I can't see this happening.

Cork, Derry, Tyrone, Mayo probably semi finalists.

Exactly, Mayo unlikely to lose to an already qualified Derry.

If Mayo did somehow lose, then it will be game on. We can finish above the loser of Tyrone v Dublin. Mayo loss as said, is very unlikely.

keane2097 · 30-03-2014 8:19pm

I think draws in the Mayo and Dublin games would put us through as well.

ciarriaithuaidh · 30-03-2014 8:24pm

keane2097 wrote: »

I think draws in the Mayo and Dublin games would put us through as well.

No, either of them draw and we're screwed aswell as we'd be level on points and we lost to both of them.

DDC1990 · 30-03-2014 8:46pm

There was a good Kerry contingent in Cusack Park today. Good to see so many people travelling up to the match. Started off brightly enough. Moran did well around the middle, and was targeted by Kelly all day, while Buckley was targeted under the Westmeath kickouts and struggled against a much bigger and more physical man. We had a few attacks with the wind in the first half and went 4 points to 1 up. Nice scores especially from Geaney who won a ball in front of himself, turned straight away and put it high over the bar. Meanwhile our backline looked solid, with Mark Griffin beating Denis Glennon to nearly every ball early on, and Murphy not giving Dessie Dolan a sniff.

Our half-backs and half-forwards really started to struggle under the breaking ball and Westmeath dominated the next 20 minutes or so, winning a huge amount of posession. At one stage, David Moran went up to win a ball and landed with 6 Westmeaht guys around him, before losing the ball in the tackle. Fionn Fitzgerald played too deep, and his man (Number 11) won 5 breaks or so in those 20 minutes.

We did score a nice goal however. Stephen O'Brien was fouled, but took a quick free to James O'Donaghue, who gave it back to O'Brien, who handpassed the ball across goal, for O'Leary to fist in.

Jonathan Lyne struggled to get into the game at all and was taken off shortly after miskicking a ball towards Geaney (about 30 minutes in). Donnacha Walsh came on and was cleverer around the middle, not winning a huge amount of ball but stopping his man winning it. Peter Crowley was also switched onto number 11 until half-time and stopped him winning the breaks.

It was level at half time, with Glennon getting a few points off Griffin, which wasn't really Marks fault, given the amount of ball that was coming his way. 1-6 to 0-9.

Sheehan who was ineffective (apart from 2 lovely frees) was taken off at halftime and replaced by Daithí Casey. The combination of Walsh and Casey worked a lot better then Sheehan and Lyne, and we started to not only break even around the middle, but dominate. We kicked a few soft wides early on in the second half though, despite creating good opportunities, and confidence seemed a little low.

Then Kieran O'Leary fumbled a good pass, the Westmeath player fumbled it while picking it up, the ball bounced around a bit and David Moran came up with the ball. Two passes later, Geaney had the ball free at the edge of the square and fired it home. From that point on Kerry kicked on, with a bit more style. Casey was controlling the game from centre forward, setting up a fine score for Geaney with a crossfield pass. Darren and Maher came on for Buckley (who improved slightly in the second half) and O'Leary. Darren was used in a sort of sweeper role, attacking fast from deep and setting up scores rather then going for them himself. Kerry should have had a third goal, when Darren broke up and attack around midfield and sprinted away from his man, passed to JO'D who took it past his man and passed to Geaney, but his shot was blocked by the defender for a 45 (which Moran converted).

Backs were excellent in the second half conceding only 4 points. Griffin again marked Glennon out of it, to the point where he had to be substituted. Murphy didn't give Dolan half a yard space and Enright beat his man well (and stopped a sure goal in the first half, by flicking the ball behind his head off the line). Marc cleaned up all the breaking ball in the second half. Crowley was quiet by his own standards but finally kicked a point after 4 shocking attempts so far in the league :P Fionn was beaten well in the first half but improved massively in the second half.

Ratings:
Kelly: 7 - Made a great point blank save in the second half. Solid under the high ball. 2 poor kickouts and could have used the short kickout a few more times. Solidified his place as Kerry's number 1.
Murphy: 8 - Not phased by marking a Gaa icon in Dessie Dolan, he showed him no respect and marked him out of the game. Got battered a few times by bigger players, but dusted himself off and got on with the game. Star in the making.
Griffin: 9 - My man of the match. The full back we've longed for over the last few years. Played tough, stood Glennon up well and forced poor shots. Made the position his own.
Enright: 8 - Was worried about him after the first few games, but has really picked it up the last couple of games. Still struggles a bit under the high ball, but he was a rock today. Plays hard but fair.
Crowley: 7 - Was a little quiet. Got a nice score. Little impact on the game by the man he was marking. None of his traditional big hits (in fact he shipped a massive high tackle, but played the advantage and popped it over the bar himself).
Fitzgerald: 7 - A poor first half, saw his man instrumental in Westmeath's challenge. Was too far off him and let him win a huge amount of breaking ball. Stepped it up in the second half and had a much bigger influence.
Ó'Sé: 8 - A great shift from Marc. Kept his man out of the game in the first half, before exploding into the game in the second half, winning a lot of breaking ball and raiding forward well. Kicked a customary Ó'Sé wide, but set up a number of chances for the forwards.
Buckley: 5 - Form is gone, confidence looks shot. Was physically bullied by his opposite number today, and had no impact on the game. Was targeted under the Westmeath kickouts, and didn't win a clean ball all day. Contributed nothing in attack either.
Moran: 8 - By far the more influential of the Midfielders. Often in the first half fighting alone against a wave of opposition players, he fought hard all game. Won some delightful balls in the second half, set up good chances with nice passing and won the dirty ball for the 2nd goal. (Warning: My view of Moran may or may not be influenced by the fact that Ogie was sitting behind me).
Lyne: 4 - Anonymous apart from a poor left footed pass straight to a Westmeath player. Like Buckley, really struggling for form in 2014. Taken off early.
Sheehan: 6 - Wasn't really in the game. Didn't get his body in the way to protect Buckley around the middle or win any breaking ball. Gave a few nice passes, and kicked 2 very nice 45's. Taken off at halftime.
O'Leary: 6 - Did OK. Got in the position to finish the goal well, and did well early on when in possession. Not good enough as an Intercounty wing forward. Cannot track back well enough and gives nothing under the breaks. Very creative however and could do well in the corner.
O'Brien: 6 - Ok again. Struggled to win his own ball today, but looks seriously dangerous with ball in hand. Set up the goal and had a goal chance of his own, which he flicked over the bar. Turns as well as any footballer i've ever seen.
Geaney 9 - Class. Old fashioned full forward play, got in front, won the hard ball and put it straight over the bar. Got in a good position to finish off the goal chance. Kicked 2 nice frees. Laid down a serious marker for a Championship position.
O'Donaghue 8 - Did well. Struggled to escape Maguire in the corner, but still managed to use his pace and his cleverness to get a few points at vital stages when needed. Was well watched by Westmeath, but still had a big influence on the game. Sign of a top class player.

Subs:
Walsh 8 - (on for Lyne approx 30mins) Did well around the middle and helped stop Westmeath's dominance around there. Was a good link man.
Casey 8 - (on for Sheehan HT) A lot of play went through him in the second half. It also stopped McSharry getting forward for Westmeath. Set up a lot of chances, and showed good composure on the ball. No stupid passes, his influence was very measured.
Maher 8 - (on for Buckley approx 50mins) Big body helped him compete better then Buckley. Made a good block down. Played a more defensive role then Buckley and did well. Broke the ball well in the direction of Kerry men.
O'Sullivan 7 - (on for O'Leary approx 50mins) Took him a while to get into the game, but looked dangerous with his pace. Played a sweeper role, and attacked from deep. Good link with JO'D. Set up a great goal chance with a rob and fast break.
Sherwood (for Marc approx 62mins) and Mahoney (for Crowley approx 65mins) weren't on long enough to have a major impact.

keane2097 · 30-03-2014 8:48pm

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

No, either of them draw and we're screwed aswell as we'd be level on points and we lost to both of them.

Both of them draw and it's points difference though.

Fr Tod Umptious · 30-03-2014 8:53pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Both of them draw and it's points difference though.

If either Mayo or Dublin draw and Kerry win, then all they will be on 8 pts.
Mayo and Dublin have both beaten Kerry therefore Kerry will be eliminated on the first tie breaker, head to head.

ciarriaithuaidh · 30-03-2014 8:55pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Both of them draw and it's points difference though.

Is it? I assumed that seeing as we had the worst of the Mayo v Dublin clashes we would lose out. Maybe I'm wrong. Can't see Mayo NOT beating Derry anyway who are already through so it's probably academic.

DDC1990 · 30-03-2014 8:55pm

If there is 3 teams it goes to Points difference doesn't it?

Or am I making that up?

keane2097 · 30-03-2014 8:56pm

If it's more than two teams level it's decided on points difference.

keane2097 · 30-03-2014 8:57pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

If there is 3 teams it goes to Points difference doesn't it?

Or am I making that up?

It's possible you're making it up and just got lucky in being correct :pac:

ciarriaithuaidh · 30-03-2014 8:58pm

By the way, sound for the report DDC. Especially encouraging to hear Griffin and Geaney were good. Less positive news about Sheehan and Buckley. Another chance for them next week perhaps.

Fr Tod Umptious · 30-03-2014 8:58pm

keane2097 wrote: »

If it's more than two teams level it's decided on points difference.

That is true actually.
So Kerry need both to loose or both to draw, one draw is not enough.

For that to happen would be pretty long odds

Boom__Boom · 30-03-2014 9:16pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

(Warning: My view of Moran may or may not be influenced by the fact that Ogie was sitting behind me).

Best bit of the report.

ciarriaithuaidh · 31-03-2014 3:03pm

<snip>

On form you'd expect Casey to start, Donnacha probably also. Maher/Moran in the middle if both fit. Geaney will retain his place, but Darran and Declan may see action off the bench. Could be the last real game till July (with apologies to Clare/Waterford) so need to go at it hard next Sunday.

Archer3083 · 31-03-2014 3:06pm

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

I was going to say I might avoid the thread ahead of the Cork game given "thinkstoomuch" was likely to show up and start telling us how little we know, but it appears he has gone for a sulk after getting a slap on the wrists..

On form you'd expect Casey to start, Donnacha probably also. Maher/Moran in the middle if both fit. Geaney will retain his place, but Darran and Declan may see action off the bench. Could be the last real game till July (with apologies to Clare/Waterford) so need to go at it hard next Sunday.

Do you think Cork or Kerry will care too much about this game. Kerry could do with reaching a semi-final and getting a few more competitive games ahead of the championship, especially for the likes of Donnaghy and maybe Killian Young as next week's game will be too early for them. But Kerry will need other results to go their way to reach the semi-finals, so it might turn into more of a practice game

DDC1990 · 31-03-2014 3:08pm

I'd start with:
Kelly
Murphy
Griffin
Enright
Crowley
Fionn
Marc
Maher
Moran
Casey
Sheehan
Donnacha
Darren
Geaney
JO'D

A little tough on O'Brien, but Darren looks to be getting sharper and could do with the big game. Sheehan on the other-hand would be lucky to keep his place, but I'd give him the benifit of the doubt that Sunday was an off day and his performances against Tyrone and Kildare are more like him.

If not I'd have Casey at 11, Darren at 10 and O'Brien at 13.

Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

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