Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

DDC1990

nicepoint wrote: »

It's nice to see a Mayo man celebrating so proudly with the kerry panel in that pic. Great pic too

Who is the Mayo man? Sorry if this is obvious.

Fr Tod Umptious

DDC1990 wrote: »

Who is the Mayo man? Sorry if this is obvious.

I presume its Mike Finnerty.
Team doctor, bottom right in red bib.

nicepoint

DDC1990 wrote: »

Who is the Mayo man? Sorry if this is obvious.

Vincent Linnane , kit man, Colm Cooper has his arm around him. Lovely man.

homerjay2005

Any idea how the goal challenge went? Big crowd?

homerjay2005

looking at some stats there, weve won 9 munter minor titles since 1999, but only 2 u-21 munsters.

thats absolutely shocking. while we didnt win all ireland minors until this year, weve always had decent teams and normally the team that beats us aint far away from winning the minor. it does seem however that once top players hit 18-21 in kerry, their careers stagnate and alot of fade away and are never seen again.

===================================
2000 - beaten by Cork in Munster final (all ireland champions)
2001 - Beaten by Dublin in semi (beaten finalists)
2002 - Beaten by Meath in semi (beaten finalists)
2003 - Beaten by Laois in semi (all ireland champions)
2004 - Beaten finalists by Tyrone
2005 - Beaten by Mayo in semi (Mayo beaten in final)
2006 - Beaten finalists by Roscommon (after replay)
2007 - Beaten by Galway in semi (all ireland champions)
2008 - Beaten by Mayo in semi (Mayo beaten in replay)
2009 - beaten by Armagh in semi (all ireland champions)
2010 - Beaten in QF by Tyrone (all ireland champions)
2011 - beaten by Tipp in Munster (all ireland champions)
2012 - beaten by Dublin in semi (all ireland champions)
2013 - beaten by Tyrone in quarter (beaten all ireland finalists)
2014 - champions
==================================
so in 14 years before this we, we got to

• 2 finals
• 8 semi finals
• 2 1/4 finals
• beaten twice in Munster.

in those 14 years the team that knocked us out finished as follows -
9 of them won the All Ireland.
5 of them lost the final.

as i said, we may not have been winning things, but in most years we were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country and it always took one special team to beat us - i think theres been 9 different winners in 10 years so we are up there with every team,if not better, when it comes to consistency at Minor level. the problems (and perhaps led to our 5 year semi decline at Senior level) are at u-21 level...

so what on earth have the county board got up their sleeve now to turn this dark hole around and start producing consistenly good u-21 teams which would be the stepping stone to senior football?

Oregano_State

The senior team of the 2000s has been so good that it's been impossible for these lads to break into it in many positions. James O'Donoghue is one of the best forwards in the country and he had to wait until he was 23 to get in the championship team.

It's changing now though. There will be spots up for grabs over the coming years. We'll need to replace Aidan, Mark and Anthony Maher soon enough.

homerjay2005

Oregano_State wrote: »

The senior team of the 2000s has been so good that it's been impossible for these lads to break into it in many positions. James O'Donoghue is one of the best forwards in the country and he had to wait until he was 23 to get in the championship team.

It's changing now though. There will be spots up for grabs over the coming years. We'll need to replace Aidan, Mark and Anthony Maher soon enough.

there was plenty of places up for grabs in the last 5 years and at times, it was our poor squad that cost us during this time. its only last year, that a crop of young lads came through, something that had been missing for years and years.

for me, thats been down to a fundamental problem within the county on how we are developing lads,once they leave minor. you'd hope its been sorted over the last 2 years, but its no coincidence that these lads came through, after being with Fitzmaurice in the u-21. what was going on before that, was shambolic.

do we have the right men onboard now to keep what Fitzmaurice did, going? this was the u-21 team this year...

KERRY: S Murphy (Kilcummin); N Breen (Beaufort), G Crowley (Templenoe), J McGuire (Listowel Emmets); P Ó Conchúir (Dingle), P Ó Sé (An Ghaeltacht), T Morley (Templenoe); K Murphy (Kilcummin), S Keane (Legion); G Horan (Austin Stacks), G O’Leary (Kilcummin), A Spillane (Templenoe); T Hickey (Desmonds), J Crean (Annascaul), C Keating (Skellig Rangers).

theres very few stand out players there, if any which is worrying. this was a team that got beaten by Tipp in the Minor in 2011, so they have very little pedigree.

this was the minor team in 2012, who along with the minors from this year, will make the basis of the 2015 u-21 team.

Gavin Ó Curráin, Cathal O’Luing, Gavin Crowley, Patrick O’Connor, Brian Crowley, Ronan Murphy, Greg Horan, Kieran Murphy, Jack Barry, David Foran, Jack Savage, Cillian Fitzgerald, Eanna O’Conchuir, Niall Sheehy, Conor Keane Ó Cathain.

they were beaten in the semi by Dublin, but played well. again, that team doesnt really stand out as having any super stars, so maybe next year could be a barran year at u-21 level again unless the right men are in charge. it is a bit worrying however to see so few of that minor team, make it up to the u-21 team this year. i know theres another year gap to bridge, but surely there should be more of them on it, considering how poor the minor team was in 2011.

ciarriaithuaidh

HJ, you have a very valid point on the u21s..we have been well below par in this grade overall for a while now.
The one year we got our act together was 2008, when under the management of Seán Geaney and trained by Jerome Stack we won the All Ireland. 5 of the team from that day took the field last Sunday in Croker (Killian, Shane Enright, David Moran, Buckley, Kieran O'Leary) and a 6th would have been there if not for being over in Australia, Tommy Walsh.

Aside from that however, we have been well below where we should be. Having attended most of the games in that time, the main memories will unfortunately be of failure..poorly managed, poorly coached, poorly selected teams being beaten by Cork, or worse by Clare (2007 in Kilmihil) and Waterford (in 2003 in Waterford). Tipperary had a good team in 2010, but that is still a game we could have and should have won also.
The darkest day of all of course was April 6th 2011. Cork 2-24 Kerry 0-8. Never been as angry/embarassed in my life as I was walking out onto Boreenamanna Road in Cork that night. 5 of that Kerry team started on Sunday and 4 more have appeared during the semi finals or final...you wouldn't have believed it back then!
It would be easy to blame management for that disaster (and they were appalling to be fair) but the county board that selected that management (and several other sub-standard managements) must take the brunt of the blame.

Next year, despite not being stellar looking, we have some excellent players in the squad who will be joined by some of the winning minor team from last Sunday. (Spillane, Burns, O'Flatharta, Barry O'Sullivan at least)
With news of Donie Buckley's staying with Mayo, I am again, not filled with confidence for the coming year. Seamus and Darragh were fantastic players but Darragh has not inspired confidence and Seamus has never coached anyone before AFAIK. I can tell from first hand evidence over past 2 year that the preparation hasn't been up to scratch and to be quite honest I thought Darragh should have walked this year, but we'll see what happens.

keane2097

Buckley not being added to the ticket is an enormous blow, taking it from a very encouraging backroom team to a pretty suspect one.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

Buckley not being added to the ticket is an enormous blow, taking it from a very encouraging backroom team to a pretty suspect one.

must get on to Murt Murphy or some other person with a bit of balls in the media and once the dust has settled on the AI win, ask the county board what are the plans for u-21 level in the next 2 years.

its obvious the talent is there, but we seem to be failing this talent.

shockframe

homerjay2005 wrote: »

must get on to Murt Murphy or some other person with a bit of balls in the media and once the dust has settled on the AI win, ask the county board what are the plans for u-21 level in the next 2 years.

its obvious the talent is there, but we seem to be failing this talent.

Considering ye have just won a senior all ireland in a tough field would that not be a slight over reaction?

homerjay2005

shockframe wrote: »

Considering ye have just won a senior all ireland in a tough field would that not be a slight over reaction.

of course, but you cannot rest on your laurals and you need to keep at the top - you can be sure Mayo, Dublin, Cork, Tyrone are already planning their U-21 set up for next season.

2 munster titles at u-21 level in 14 seasons is very poor return. i guess people like myself are worried that the current crop of minors are going to fall into the same set up as most of the lads at that age have fallen into, over the last 15 years (excluding senior here)

we also had no player on the squad u-22, despite all the talk about a young team!

we have a great bunch of young lads coming through, we need to ensure know the right structures and men are in place for them to thrive and grow into the senior panel over the next 2 years. it would appear however, that there are very few (perhaps zero) lads between 19-22 currently good enough to play senior football, which is very disappointing and a reason why weve been terrible at u-21 level for the last 4 years especially.

Kerrydude1981

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Any idea how the goal challenge went? Big crowd?

http://traleetoday.ie/photos-ireland-champs-meet-fans/

5live

Joe Brolly...

I'm just going to leave it here....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerry-spewed-a-torrent-of-vomit-football-joe-brolly-30616858.html

Sad little man.

sammy37

5live wrote: »

Joe Brolly...

I'm just going to leave it here....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerry-spewed-a-torrent-of-vomit-football-joe-brolly-30616858.html

Sad little man.

It must be eating him up inside that kerry won and i am delighted cos if donegal had won he would be waxing lyrical about them at how brilliant and unbeatable they are. Cant wait for next year already where i hope brolly is will burst for his hatred for Kerry.

homerjay2005

lads, do any of you know who has got the most goals in all ireland football finals?
Donaghy has 4 i think (2006, 2007 X 2, 2014), Gooch has 4 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2011). considering that they would have played in 6 and 8 finals respectively i would believe they are not far off the top of it

i assume its the bomber has more than 4?

Prop Joe

homerjay2005 wrote: »

lads, do any of you know who has got the most goals in all ireland football finals?
Donaghy has 4 i think (2006, 2007 X 2, 2014), Gooch has 4 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2011). considering that they would have played in 6 and 8 finals respectively i would believe they are not far off the top of it

i assume its the bomber has more than 4?

Sheehy & Bomber both have 5 - Star to surpass that next year

Poor_old_gill

5live wrote: »

Joe Brolly...

I'm just going to leave it here....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerry-spewed-a-torrent-of-vomit-football-joe-brolly-30616858.html

Sad little man.

Can I have attention, can I please have some attention.
I need to have the last word and I need my bloody attention.

homerjay2005

reading Tomas article today it really stood out about how adaptable this team really is - in the space of 3 weeks weve gone from being involved in two of the best games in recent memory to playing a completely different game against Donegal.

we kicked 25 points against Cork and 1-20 against Galway. 12 months previous we were involved in one of the best games of all time.

yet, people go on about Kerry bein defensive, blanket defences and vomit football. you just cannot win, though i guess when you take home a title, you can

he also mentioned how people used our record in finals to Ulster teams as a stick to beet kerry with for years - now when we beat them at their own game, something we failed to do 5 times in the past, people are complaining about how we did it.

ciarriaithuaidh

Brolly continues to plumb the depths of "analysis" I see. :rolleyes:

Tomás matter of fact dismissal of him in Indo today is spot on.

Spillane, seems out of touch with the modern game. O'Rourke seems to long for traditional type games aswell. The sad thing about Brolly is that he seems in-tune with the modern game, but chooses sensationalist bullsh*t like this more often than real and balanced analysis. He also throws in a massive amount of bland statements that are just lies really.

In Sunday's coverage he managed to bring up how Gooch was "marked out" of every final against Tyrone.
2005 Final - Gooch (0-5) 3 from play.
2008 Final - Gooch (0-6) 3 from play.

That despite playing against the famous blanket defence and being doubled marked a lot. Marked out of the game me ar5e!

keane2097

Yeah Brolly is just disappointing more than anything.

You suspect he could be a brilliant analyst but half of what he says ends up being an unresearched statement that's a flip of a coin as to whether it's true or not, the other half is disingenuous contrariness designed to annoy people.

It's a shame.

shockframe

homerjay2005 wrote: »

reading Tomas article today it really stood out about how adaptable this team really is - in the space of 3 weeks weve gone from being involved in two of the best games in recent memory to playing a completely different game against Donegal.

we kicked 25 points against Cork and 1-20 against Galway. 12 months previous we were involved in one of the best games of all time.

yet, people go on about Kerry bein defensive, blanket defences and vomit football. you just cannot win, though i guess when you take home a title, you can

he also mentioned how people used our record in finals to Ulster teams as a stick to beet kerry with for years - now when we beat them at their own game, something we failed to do 5 times in the past, people are complaining about how we did it.

Kerry were defensive and their entitled to play it however they like. Don't think too many have an issue with that at all. But Spillane giving out about Northern Football for a decade or so and not sticking the boot in to a not dissimilar plan used by Kerry like last Sunday grates with a lot of people.I'm sure many of ye dont agree with Spillane but the public will associate him with a typical Kerry opinion whether its right or wrong.

Kerry have to be defensive if needs must, as do every other team who wants to compete.

As regards the record against Ulster teams there was never really an issue with Ulster teams in my opinion, just Tyrone. Kerry got swept up in a tidal wave against Armagh in 2002 but that would have been any other team on the receiving end that day,Armagh were like wolves in that second half gunning for that first all ireland , that it was Kerry is more of a coincidence than anything.

The Tyrone argument is much more valid but Kerry weren't entirely blameless in this either. The Kerry Chairman in 20004 as good as said we saved football against the puke Northern football exponents.This added fuel to the fire and didn't do ye much favours before 2005. Then there was the team of the decade argument before 2008 which might have been Spillane ranting but Tyrone again came out on top.

Not beating tyrone from 2003 to 2008 makes any criticism valid and as much as O'Se (who I enjoy reading) might give about it it's not without merit either.

I wouldnt even consider debating the Down 2010 defeat either because Kerry's golden era had just ended or indeed last Sundays win because they arent really relevant to the noughties timeline.

If Sunday was a factor it would read donegal 1 kerry 1, as the recent armagh record reads Kerry 2 Armagh 1 and 1 draw.Them's the breaks.

D'Agger

There's no doubt in my mind that Brolly is a smart man, acting dumb or else just overwhelmed by his fieriness because there's no doubt about the fact that he's an intelligent enough man.

RTE needs to overhaul the Sunday Game tbqh - it's like watching auld fellas at the pub. Spillanes tirade about the 'cream rising to the top' on the Sunday game was cringeworthy stuff.

They're capable of analysing the game to a point but I'd prefer to see players who played football closer to the modern day - Tomás, Dara, Dessie Dolan - there's numerous players who could slot in. The current crop are more than likely being paid too well for a cushy number - they need to be phased out, or in Brollys case - shoved.

homerjay2005

Tomas on Marc...hopefully this means theres another year in him.

He is one of the greatest defenders we have ever produced. It was a sweet victory for him. He has the fitness to go on and win a sixth medal and, if he does, I'll take what's coming to me and gladly move to the bottom of the pile!

keane2097

shockframe wrote: »

Kerry were defensive and their entitled to play it however they like. Don't think too many have an issue with that at all. But Spillane giving out about Northern Football for a decade or so and not sticking the boot in to a not dissimilar plan used by Kerry like last Sunday grates with a lot of people.I'm sure many of ye dont agree with Spillane but the public will associate him with a typical Kerry opinion whether its right or wrong.

Kerry have to be defensive if needs must, as do every other team who wants to compete.

As regards the record against Ulster teams there was never really an issue with Ulster teams in my opinion, just Tyrone. Kerry got swept up in a tidal wave against Armagh in 2002 but that would have been any other team on the receiving end that day,Armagh were like wolves in that second half gunning for that first all ireland , that it was Kerry is more of a coincidence than anything.

The Tyrone argument is much more valid but Kerry weren't entirely blameless in this either. The Kerry Chairman in 20004 as good as said we saved football against the puke Northern football exponents.This added fuel to the fire and didn't do ye much favours before 2005. Then there was the team of the decade argument before 2008 which might have been Spillane ranting but Tyrone again came out on top.

Not beating tyrone from 2003 to 2008 makes any criticism valid and as much as O'Se (who I enjoy reading) might give about it it's not without merit either.

I wouldnt even consider debating the Down 2010 defeat either because Kerry's golden era had just ended or indeed last Sundays win because they arent really relevant to the noughties timeline.

If Sunday was a factor it would read donegal 1 kerry 1, as the recent armagh record reads Kerry 2 Armagh 1 and 1 draw.Them's the breaks.

I'm not sure what point this is trying to make?

shockframe

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not sure what point this is trying to make?

Just to summarise

1) Kerry can play any way they want to. They were highly defensive last Sunday and they fully deserved to win.

2) FWIW I don't think O'Se bringing Kerry V Ulster into 2014 is entirely necessary because that debate really ended a long time ago.The Armagh defeat in 2002 isn't really telling the full story of that rivalry.2000-09 is more appropriate for the Kerry Ulster thing not from 2010 onwards.

keane2097

shockframe wrote: »

Just to summarise

1) Kerry can play any way they want to. They were highly defensive last Sunday and they fully deserved to win.

2) FWIW I don't think O'Se bringing Kerry V Ulster into 2014 is entirely necessary because that debate really ended a long time ago.The Armagh defeat in 2002 isn't really telling the full story of that rivalry.2000-09 is more appropriate for the Kerry Ulster thing not from 2010 onwards.

I have you now.

TBF, for the last three weeks a lot of what we've been reading is Kerry's record against Team Ulster, our fear of Northerners etc etc ad nauseum and of course only mentioning the games we lost all the while, so while we're glad to have the monkey off our back we didn't put the monkey there in the first place!

homerjay2005

up until last sunday, kerry had only kept a clean sheet in an all ireland final once in 33 years :eek::eek::eek:

Brian Kelly kept clean sheets in this years All Ireland Final, Munster Final and Sigerson final.

ciarriaithuaidh

Shockframe, just so you know, Spillane's utterances are not representative of what the vast majority of clued-in Kerry football people think about Ulster or Tyrone. Indeed I would totally disassociate myself from the majority of what Pat says as, despite being a brilliant player, he is not in touch with the modern game to a large degree. The phrase "puke football" unfortunately embedded itself in everyone's minds after 2003..and 2003 WAS indeed a very defensive system by Tyrone, but totally understandable when you have NEVER won Sam to that point.
I will always say that Tyrone 2005 were absolutely fantastic and played some brilliant football with a very different approach from 2003. Despite Kerry losing, I would class that 2005 final as the best final of the modern era.
2008 is the most bitter defeat I've experienced in my lifetime as I'm convinced Kerry had the personnel to win that game..but on the day, Tyrone were the better team so deserved the win you'd have to say.

Unfortunately there are idiots everywhere, we have a share in Kerry, and some of the ungracious and inaccurate comments on Tyrone (and Ulster) teams didn't help the relationship between the counties. There was plenty flak in the opposite direction aswell of course.

I think the lesson from all this is that extremism serves no purpose and is needless...be it Pat Spillane ranting about Ulster teams playing "negative football" or Joe Lennon declaring "Kerry football is finished" etc..

Grats

homerjay2005 wrote: »

reading Tomas article today it really stood out about how adaptable this team really is - in the space of 3 weeks weve gone from being involved in two of the best games in recent memory to playing a completely different game against Donegal.

we kicked 25 points against Cork and 1-20 against Galway. 12 months previous we were involved in one of the best games of all time.

yet, people go on about Kerry bein defensive, blanket defences and vomit football. you just cannot win, though i guess when you take home a title, you can

he also mentioned how people used our record in finals to Ulster teams as a stick to beet kerry with for years - now when we beat them at their own game, something we failed to do 5 times in the past, people are complaining about how we did it.

I've always admired Kerry football and have been at many of their matches over the years - in fact many football matches in addition to Kerry ones. My admiration has gone up even more following their success this year and particularly after their win against Donegal. As in the post above, they adapted to the Donegal way in under three weeks and beat Donegal at their own game. Had Kerry tried to play to their normal plan they'd have been defeated.

As a Kilkenny man I can fully relate to what Kerry have to endure. When we were skinning teams and running up huge scores we were accused of all kinds of things such as been defensive. At the end if the day much of our success was down to sheer work rate and a lot of skill. While the whinging and accusations has eased somewhat(mainly due to our "decline"), many in the media and from competing counties still cannot grasp the simplicity of success. They would rather bandy all kinds of rubbish about than to face the truth.

Kerry get on with their business in a quiet professional manner without being boastful, just like Kilkenny. Titles don't come easy. Ye deserve your success. Enjoy the moment and ignore the begrudgers.

Up the K's!