Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

homerjay2005

wonga77 wrote: »

Would strongly disagree with your first sentence. Fionn on Andrews was a complete mismatch as Andrews was far too strong for him, he went by him far too easy in the first half, if Marc was fit to appear (which I strongly doubt) then he should have been brought in at some stage

i dont recall Andrews doing a while pile in the from after he scored his point, in fact apart from kick a goal chance wide (under great pressure i may add) i dont recall him doing anything in that second half.

forwards are going to win ball, id be pretty sure he would have still kicked a point off Marc and still won a few balls in that first half, when Dublin were on top.

Nidgeweasel

Good evening lads/lassies.

Don't mean to detract from the ongoing discussion but I have a couple of questions about the club scene in Kerry.

Basically first thing is the way there is a county championship and then a club championship. I know that the winner of the former (where a club team) goes forward to Munster, but are they both treated relatively equally? Are they a big deal for the competing clubs? Or is the county championship still the number one and all weight goes to that?

Secondly is the make up of the divisional teams. Are the clubs who contribute to that able to change? I have to plead my ignorance here in that I really have no idea. But I suppose what I have in mind is if one team which contributes to a divisional side suddenly hits a purple patch themselves ( I suppose through league promotion or something else) do they go out on their own?

Seems to be a load of competitive football on offer anyway. It's only recently that in Donegal we've gone to a group stage format for the initial championship round instead of a two tie knock out. Guaranteed an extra game now but critically against more teams.

I've just been thinking about the state of the game up here generally. South west Donegal was 'the' hotbed for games here for a while. Utterly dominant and some great clubs like Ballyshannon, glen, killybegs. A lot of those clubs are playing in the intermediate championship. Was just thinking the Kerry model would be nice to see and a collegiate team from that area for example which is languishing competing against the successful clubs, hence the questions.

Happy to take to PM if needed.

Smartguy

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Good evening lads/lassies.

Don't mean to detract from the ongoing discussion but I have a couple of questions about the club scene in Kerry.

Basically first thing is the way there is a county championship and then a club championship. I know that the winner of the former (where a club team) goes forward to Munster, but are they both treated relatively equally? Are they a big deal for the competing clubs? Or is the county championship still the number one and all weight goes to that?

Secondly is the make up of the divisional teams. Are the clubs who contribute to that able to change? I have to plead my ignorance here in that I really have no idea. But I suppose what I have in mind is if one team which contributes to a divisional side suddenly hits a purple patch themselves ( I suppose through league promotion or something else) do they go out on their own?

Seems to be a load of competitive football on offer anyway. It's only recently that in Donegal we've gone to a group stage format for the initial championship round instead of a two tie knock out. Guaranteed an extra game now but critically against more teams.

I've just been thinking about the state of the game up here generally. South west Donegal was 'the' hotbed for games here for a while. Utterly dominant and some great clubs like Ballyshannon, glen, killybegs. A lot of those clubs are playing in the intermediate championship. Was just thinking the Kerry model would be nice to see and a collegiate team from that area for example which is languishing competing against the successful clubs, hence the questions.

Happy to take to PM if needed.

I am not an expert on this but see below.


County championship is still the most prestigious but club championship is still a big deal to in particularly if the divisional sides are strong.

You are right on your next point, if a divisional club team win the intermediate championship and therefore entitled to go senior,they will leave their division and go out on their own. Plenty of examples of this happening.

Kerrydude1981

I think the winners of the Intermediate should play in the Senior Club championship and then have a choice of going it alone or staying with the divisional team when it comes to the County Championship.

Nidgeweasel

Thanks. I'm struggling to see the drawback to that model. Surely the more access to senior football the better?

A lack of clubs might be an issue I suppose.

homerjay2005

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Thanks. I'm struggling to see the drawback to that model. Surely the more access to senior football the better?

A lack of clubs might be an issue I suppose.

ive tried to explain it over pints to several lads and most people dont understand it!

im from a small club and played divisional football for several years so know it inside out. when ive a bit more time, ill put up a full summary unless somebody else does it in the mean time!

Nidgeweasel

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive tried to explain it over pints to several lads and most people dont understand it!

im from a small club and played divisional football for several years so know it inside out. when ive a bit more time, ill put up a full summary unless somebody else does it in the mean time!

Looking forward to it!

davegrohl48

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive tried to explain it over pints to several lads and most people dont understand it!

im from a small club and played divisional football for several years so know it inside out. when ive a bit more time, ill put up a full summary unless somebody else does it in the mean time!

I have two very specific questions if you could include as I am interested in this also. How are the panels selected? Teams put players forward or trials or management team of the divisional side do their own scouting of club games and approach players?
How do they keep each team onboard with it each year without their being rows over players not being selected?
I think it's a great system to give players an opportunity to improve themselves.

keane2097

davegrohl48 wrote: »

How do they keep each team onboard with it each year without their being rows over players not being selected?

Ha!

davegrohl48

keane2097 wrote: »

Ha!

Did I just knock over the ash bucket of common issues

Smartguy

The challenge for divisional teams is building a club spirit and it does not work a lot of the time. The longer a divisional team goes in the championship the stronger they become. Early in the year especially, divisional teams are very vulnerable as they might barely have trained together.

Overall it is a good system as it gives every player a chance to play senior football and also prove they have what it takes to play inter-county.

keane2097

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Did I just knock over the ash bucket of common issues

Maybe for a few other lads

wonga77

In the last 10-15 years South Kerry seem to have got the most out of their divisional setup. Mid Kerry and Feale Rangers won one each but SK seem to be the most consistant. You often hear of disharmony in other district teams and as mentioned, the longer they stay in the championship the better they become.
We really need someone to challenge the Crokes on a consistant basis, then of course you have a few club teams that havent a hope of making an impression on the championship and would be better off with their district. The new relegation system will regrade a few of them this year

Kerrydude1981

Few years ago they had a tournament for divisional sides,I think it was Ballymac that ran it,it was a way for the divisional sides to to get some form going before the championship

homerjay2005

so first off, to focus on the county senior championship the main point is that every player in the county has a chance to play senior championship football.

there are 9 divisional "clubs", who have about 50 clubs combined and these 50 clubs make up the Intermediate, Junior and Novice club championships and normally Division 2-5 of the Senior County Leagues. the Intermediate winners every year have the chance to go up to Senior and would replace the relegated team from the Senior County Championship, who would then join their nearest divisional team. the 9 teams are -

1. St Brendans (north of tralee)
2. Shannon Rangers (the furthers clubs north of the county
3. Feale Rangers (clubs directly around Listowel)
4. St Kierans - the clubs around Castleisland.
5. East Kerry - clubs around Killarney to the East
6. West Kerry (all clubs west of Tralee)
7. Mid Kerry (between Tralee and Killarney)
8. South Kerry (the biggest divisional team in the county)
9. Kenmare (all the clubs around Kenmare area)

the rest of the county championship is made up of the 11 following clubs, one of which is relegated each year.

Austin Stacks,
St Michaels Foilmore
Ardfert
Rahillys
Rathmore
Dr Crokes
Dingle
Legion
Kilcummin
Laune Rangers
Miltown/Castlemaine

those 11 clubs also play in the Senior club championship which runs alongside the intermediate,Junior and Novice competitions.

every club in Kerry (with exception of 2 or 3 Junior clubs) plays in the Senior county league and 2 or 3 of these clubs have B teams playing in Division 5.

now and then you have the odd Junior championship team here and there who get to Division 1 of the Senior County league.

if a divisional team wins the county championship, then the Club senior champions get nominated to represent Kerry in the Munser Senior Club. Dingle won this yesterday.

the actual club championships have taken extra significance in recent years with the chance of getting to Croke Park and they have become extremely competitive. there is alot of unbalance though as you could often have teams who would be good enough to be Senior in other counties, playing Junior in Kerry just because for some clubs it was never the priority to win the 3 "lesser" club titles.

Kerry teams do very well in these nationally (reigning holders in Intermediate and Junior and have won the most by far of any county) as the clubs are used to playing a very good standard of Senior League football and their best players would also be used to playing Senior County Championship every year.

its not that uncommon that a team would win the Kerry Junior club championship and would have a panel full of players who would have played either Senior, u-21 or Minor(sometimes all 3) country championship in the recent past.

Divisional clubs rarely win the county championship anymore as alot of the "smaller" club players concentrate on their own and some just turn up and go through the motions. some of the divisional teams also struggle to put out teams now and then, which is unbelievable yet expected.

most clubs on the divisional sides would have a selector on the team so that should lessen the risk of having players not selected or picked but like every single GAA club in the country there would of course be issues. there are no trials, most of the players would be the ones from underage that played all the way up and to be honest the local scene is so intense that everybody knows who the good players are and who should be selected.

personally i grew up playing with the u-14 team at divisional level, then 2 years under 16, 3 years minor and 4 years with the u-21 team and always loved playing with them - had some great days out and played in 2 finals, 4 semi finals. others werent interested in playing and you can accept that especially players who are away with college or are good 17 or 18 year olds that play at every level for the club and then are expected to do the same for their local divisional team.

feel free to ask any questions incase the above isnt clear.

munster87

What's your own club Homer if you don't mind me asking?

davegrohl48

So then if you look at it at a high level. A young footballer in Kerry from a small junior club can maybe go to one of the stronger schools and also put himself forward for divisional football getting much more coaching and experience in playing with strong players. Not really replicated in other counties. You will struggle to bring your game up to a high level without marking or being marked by a higher standard of player in training. They might also play in a position more suited to them rather than maybe by default being midfield with their underage club.

homerjay2005

davegrohl48 wrote: »

So then if you look at it at a high level. A young footballer in Kerry from a small junior club can maybe go to one of the stronger schools and also put himself forward for divisional football getting much more coaching and experience in playing with strong players. Not really replicated in other counties. You will struggle to bring your game up to a high level without marking or being marked by a higher standard of player in training. They might also play in a position more suited to them rather than maybe by default being midfield with their underage club.

the coaching at the divisional clubs is non existent though, which is a reason they dont do too well.

the majority of teams are only thrown together to be honest a week or two before hand.

Boom__Boom

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the coaching at the divisional clubs is non existent though, which is a reason they dont do too well.

the majority of teams are only thrown together to be honest a week or two before hand.

Sometimes on some of the divisional teams, they don't really gel at all and you will see some ridiculous passes attempted when some lads are determined only to pass to lads from their own home team.

If the divisional teams can gel and put aside club biases they can be a serious prospect but equally if they fail to gel they can look like a shambles.

If things aren't going well the issue of substitutions can get very awkward, and often times the management discussion on the sidelines for divisional teams can get very heated.

Overall they do add a fair bit of entertainment to the whole thing, even beyond giving everyone a chance the opportunity to play at the highest level.

homerjay2005

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Sometimes on some of the divisional teams, they don't really gel at all and you will see some ridiculous passes attempted when some lads are determined only to pass to lads from their own home team.

as somebody who played on these teams for 7 years, i can tell you i never seen this happen at all.

infact, you'd be looking to pass to the other lads on the team more just to help out integrating.

Nidgeweasel

homerjay2005 wrote: »

as somebody who played on these teams for 7 years, i can tell you i never seen this happen at all.

infact, you'd be looking to pass to the other lads on the team more just to help out integrating.

Never considered the underage aspect.

Did you play for the club as well underage?

homerjay2005

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Never considered the underage aspect.

Did you play for the club as well underage?

yes, there is an u-14, u-16 county championship also and we would have played with the divisional team in that.

club then would have played in county league, local league and local championship in 14/16s. same up to minor actually. being from a small club, there was weeks that me and other other stronger players would have been playing 7 nights a week though that wasnt every week.

but at the height of the summer you'd have an u-16, minor, junior,senior game every week, on top of schools games and then the divisional games, which wouldnt even include training and other sports (we also played a bit of Hurling and alot of soccer)

davegrohl48

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes, there is an u-14, u-16 county championship also and we would have played with the divisional team in that.

club then would have played in county league, local league and local championship in 14/16s. same up to minor actually. being from a small club, there was weeks that me and other other stronger players would have been playing 7 nights a week though that wasnt every week.

but at the height of the summer you'd have an u-16, minor, junior,senior game every week, on top of schools games and then the divisional games, which wouldnt even include training and other sports (we also played a bit of Hurling and alot of soccer)

Savage amount of match practice in fairness.

homerjay2005

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Savage amount of match practice in fairness.

yes but i found by the time i was 18, that i was getting injuries left right and center and its carried on over the years.

davegrohl48

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes but i found by the time i was 18, that i was getting injuries left right and center and its carried on over the years.

Savagery that amount of games.

ciarriaithuaidh

Can't wait for Homerjay to follow up his good post above by explaining the Divisional championships..find a lot of people who can't believe they exist and that Junior B teams play Intermediate or Senior teams in the same competition!

Obvious HJ will require a separate post to explain the intricacies and greatness of the North Kerry championship, which as we all know is the toughest of them all..:D

Uncle Ben

You'd want to watch yourselves lads. The Mayo gang are after your Jack O Connor!

homerjay2005

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Can't wait for Homerjay to follow up his good post above by explaining the Divisional championships..find a lot of people who can't believe they exist and that Junior B teams play Intermediate or Senior teams in the same competition!

Obvious HJ will require a separate post to explain the intricacies and greatness of the North Kerry championship, which as we all know is the toughest of them all..:D

divional championships are in alot of counties!

and to be honest, the concept of Junior B clubs playing (and beating)Senior clubs is also replicated in the county leagues so there is nothing different there really.

was looking there at the all ireland Junior and Intermediate club tickets and since 2005, 8 Kerry teams have made the Junior final (winning 6) and since 2007, 6 Kerry teams have made the intermediate final (winning 4). thats pretty good going and i believe its down to the level of competition these players are playing at.

you can be sure that every one of the Brosna players who won the Junior this year have Senior,u-21 or Minor county championship experience with 5 or 6 of their players having it all. its a massive advantage!

Fr Tod Umptious

Talk of Cian O Neill becoming Kildare manager.

On Radio Kerry now and apparently all over the Twitter machine, which I don't own, so I cannot link

Kildare board meeting this afternoon to discuss/ratify/whatever.

rebel girl 15

Cian O Neill announced as new Kildare manager - big loss for Kerry